Knicks · Who would be available and attainable, and put up with Dolan to coach the Knicks (if Woodson is let go/fired)? (page 1)

Most of us liked JVG and could tolerate his brother SVG - but the ending would probably be the same with any coach that doesn't want a meddling owner?

Seems like Grunwald or any former employee making it "news" to publicize Dolan for being the meddling owner us fans know he is would help. It might cause enough attention/pressure, that he decides to settle down or lay low for a few years. This might give us another window of hope :( I'm curious as to realistic strategies to help the owner problem. We can argue/debate about Woodson and Melo - but it seems clear nothing significant can really change unless the next coach and gm have autonomy to do their jobs. Positive thoughts anyone?

If you don't see why Jerry Sloan would not be caught dead within 1000 miles of this pile of crap, then you and me can't talk to each other because we are on two different planets.

You're gonna bring in some hack that doesn't give a crap at work conditions because he is just happy to have a job.

no one cares about the 2-4 record,

it's that the team is pure trash and it's only getting worse

IronWillGiroud wrote:you don't get

no one cares about the 2-4 record,

it's that the team is pure trash and it's only getting worse

Changes between last year's team and this year's team:

2012-13: Copeland, Novak, Camby, Kidd, K.Thomas, Wallace - all done anyways
2013-14: Hardaway Jr., Bargnani, Aldrich, Murry, C. Smith

I know I might be the only dude on the planet that thinks we are a better team, but the continuity is important I think. This is a long season, and these guys need time to get their legs under them (Chandler pun intended). I also think the team made a mistake not giving Tyler the roster spot even though he's injured, but that's forum fodder for a few weeks ago.

Give it time before you make your declarations is all I'm saying.

JohnStarksFan wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:you don't get

no one cares about the 2-4 record,

it's that the team is pure trash and it's only getting worse

Changes between last year's team and this year's team:

2012-13: Copeland, Novak, Camby, Kidd, K.Thomas, Wallace - all done anyways
2013-14: Hardaway Jr., Bargnani, Aldrich, Murry, C. Smith

I know I might be the only dude on the planet that thinks we are a better team, but the continuity is important I think. This is a long season, and these guys need time to get their legs under them (Chandler pun intended). I also think the team made a mistake not giving Tyler the roster spot even though he's injured, but that's forum fodder for a few weeks ago.

Give it time before you make your declarations is all I'm saying.

it's a matter of where you're looking from,

if you're not looking too deep beyond the surface, i agree that it's not the end of the world,

but if you've been analyzing this team under the surface for the last 5 or 6 years, what you see today is exactly what you expected to play out.

it would not be a good use of time to go back and dig through old threads, but the current situation was predicted by more than a few posters when we first traded for Melo; this is the script playing out.

at the time, the guys calling it negative on the Melo deal were subject to abuse (some were even banned) and their views were thrown to the gutters, but now, look for yourself:

this is fucked.

it's so much more than just a 2-4 record and a few roster changes,

there is a cancer within the Knicks franchise and we won't find genuine hoops success until the cancer is removed.

it's fine to root for the Knicks on this level, many people do and they enjoy the game and they don't think twice about it,

but i can't sit here and go with that. some of us, the guys that enjoy the game of basketball, can't root for this team on that level, and that's sad because as basketball fans, the Knicks are the last team we should be following.

not that pro sports is a huge part of my life, it's something i give a few spare minutes to, i like to enjoy a nice basketball game after a long week of work, but it's a case where i'm left without a basketball team to root for, because this is a joke, it's a joke,

anyone that tells me anything otherwise is either trolling or they are living in the dark or they are on drugs,

But it comes down to this: you either follow this team as an adult or you follow it as if you were a child.

If you want to follow it as if you were a child, that's fine, then yea, it's not the end of the world maybe they'll put together a few wins here and there, get hot, who knows.

But if you want to be real, if you want to see it for what it is, there's not much here to see unless you are the type of person that watches auto racing for the car crashes.

You're either in one camp or the other, and the two camps can't have a discussion between them about the Knicks, it's impossible

JohnStarksFan wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:you don't get

no one cares about the 2-4 record,

it's that the team is pure trash and it's only getting worse

Changes between last year's team and this year's team:

2012-13: Copeland, Novak, Camby, Kidd, K.Thomas, Wallace - all done anyways
2013-14: Hardaway Jr., Bargnani, Aldrich, Murry, C. Smith

I know I might be the only dude on the planet that thinks we are a better team, but the continuity is important I think. This is a long season, and these guys need time to get their legs under them (Chandler pun intended). I also think the team made a mistake not giving Tyler the roster spot even though he's injured, but that's forum fodder for a few weeks ago.

Give it time before you make your declarations is all I'm saying.

I agree with you !

JohnStarksFan wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:you don't get

no one cares about the 2-4 record,

it's that the team is pure trash and it's only getting worse

Changes between last year's team and this year's team:

2012-13: Copeland, Novak, Camby, Kidd, K.Thomas, Wallace - all done anyways
2013-14: Hardaway Jr., Bargnani, Aldrich, Murry, C. Smith

I know I might be the only dude on the planet that thinks we are a better team, but the continuity is important I think. This is a long season, and these guys need time to get their legs under them (Chandler pun intended). I also think the team made a mistake not giving Tyler the roster spot even though he's injured, but that's forum fodder for a few weeks ago.

Give it time before you make your declarations is all I'm saying.

Our problems are:

Melo had to rehab over summer instead of playing basketball
Amar'e had to rehab over summer instead of playing basketball
JR had to rehab over summer instead of playing basketball
K-Mart had to rehab over summer instead of playing basketball
Shump had to keep resting due to knee soreness instead of working out and playing basketball
Bargs had to rest over summer instead of working out and playing basketball

So that's SIX players who did no basketball over summer. Of the remainder of the team 4 are rookies (one is Chris Smith), Tyson who did actually workout over summer is injured, Felton is playing like trash, Beno is playing like trash, Prigs, Amar'e and K-Mart are on minute restrictions. That leaves MWP who is actually playing well.

On top of that we make no effort what so ever to start games. We can't defend. We can't rebound. We can't shoot. We can't drive.

There's hope, in that our players may just need time to get back into the swing of things. I thought we'd have a slow start, but no this abomination! The problem is if we can't get out of this month with a 50% record, then it makes getting out of that hole much tougher.

IronWillGiroud wrote:The LAST thing I want to do in this world is to rain on someone's happy parade.

But it comes down to this: you either follow this team as an adult or you follow it as if you were a child.

If you want to follow it as if you were a child, that's fine, then yea, it's not the end of the world maybe they'll put together a few wins here and there, get hot, who knows.

But if you want to be real, if you want to see it for what it is, there's not much here to see unless you are the type of person that watches auto racing for the car crashes.

You're either in one camp or the other, and the two camps can't have a discussion between them about the Knicks, it's impossible

Will, I'm with you on a lot of this. Seriously I am, especially about watching as an adult or as a child. But we have to agree that adults can take this stuff too far, and start overanalyzing the things that even the most serious of fans would never know. We can agree the cancer is Dolan and all his cronies in the organization are him metastasizing outward. But the realization we have to come to, as adults, is that that cancer can't be cured by analyzing it to death and making up BS cures that won't ever work. All our word-play isn't going to change anything, it just makes it worse. So I propose more of you do what I choose to do, and that's try to look at the game as an adult, but keep that wonderment in my eyes I had when I was kid watching the game of basketball. That way, when the adult in me says this season is F'ed and it's all Dolan's fault and I'm not watching anymore, the kid in me will say it's worth it to hang on because this is a player's game, not an owner's game, and this team has a shot every night to do something great. And even if they don't, someone will amaze me with their talent. Y'all are gonna have a stroke about this someday.

Read this ---> http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=45896 - hopefully you'll smile.

IronWillGiroud wrote:Problem is guys are playing like last year's 54 wins automatically mean you are a top team this year,

Yep, Woody assumed we'd carry on as we left off and so misused preseason to showcase 6 end of bench scrubs and rest vets, when we should have been focusing on the vets and getting them back into basketball rythm.

JohnStarksFan wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:The LAST thing I want to do in this world is to rain on someone's happy parade.

But it comes down to this: you either follow this team as an adult or you follow it as if you were a child.

If you want to follow it as if you were a child, that's fine, then yea, it's not the end of the world maybe they'll put together a few wins here and there, get hot, who knows.

But if you want to be real, if you want to see it for what it is, there's not much here to see unless you are the type of person that watches auto racing for the car crashes.

You're either in one camp or the other, and the two camps can't have a discussion between them about the Knicks, it's impossible

Will, I'm with you on a lot of this. Seriously I am, especially about watching as an adult or as a child. But we have to agree that adults can take this stuff too far, and start overanalyzing the things that even the most serious of fans would never know. We can agree the cancer is Dolan and all his cronies in the organization are him metastasizing outward. But the realization we have to come to, as adults, is that that cancer can't be cured by analyzing it to death and making up BS cures that won't ever work. All our word-play isn't going to change anything, it just makes it worse. So I propose more of you do what I choose to do, and that's try to look at the game as an adult, but keep that wonderment in my eyes I had when I was kid watching the game of basketball. That way, when the adult in me says this season is F'ed and it's all Dolan's fault and I'm not watching anymore, the kid in me will say it's worth it to hang on because this is a player's game, not an owner's game, and this team has a shot every night to do something great. And even if they don't, someone will amaze me with their talent. Y'all are gonna have a stroke about this someday.

Read this ---> http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=45896 - hopefully you'll smile.

I hear you.

THe problem is my own, you catch yourself living through a pro basketball team, lol, which is ridiculous when you step back and take a breath.

You know, I guess it has to do with growing up, watching your team with your dad, and rooting so hard because you really thought you could affect the outcome. I'm here today because of those memories, and it's human to get a little carried away.

Important to see it for what it is, which is petty entertainment, who cares either way?

I'm on the forum for the banter, number 1, everything else comes second.

Exhale.

smackeddog wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:Problem is guys are playing like last year's 54 wins automatically mean you are a top team this year,

Yep, Woody assumed we'd carry on as we left off and so misused preseason to showcase 6 end of bench scrubs and rest vets, when we should have been focusing on the vets and getting them back into basketball rythm.

But the conundrum there is that we would be dogging Woodson for not giving the vet's proper rest, his major critique from last season. His most poignant offseason comment was about resting the vets properly so we're ready for the postseason.

smackeddog wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:Problem is guys are playing like last year's 54 wins automatically mean you are a top team this year,

Yep, Woody assumed we'd carry on as we left off and so misused preseason to showcase 6 end of bench scrubs and rest vets, when we should have been focusing on the vets and getting them back into basketball rythm.

Agree, a lot of this is on Woody in the short window,

in the long window it's everything else we talk about but as far as coming out without a head on your shoulder, like you're just rolling the ball out, that's woody

IronWillGiroud wrote:

JohnStarksFan wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:The LAST thing I want to do in this world is to rain on someone's happy parade.

But it comes down to this: you either follow this team as an adult or you follow it as if you were a child.

If you want to follow it as if you were a child, that's fine, then yea, it's not the end of the world maybe they'll put together a few wins here and there, get hot, who knows.

But if you want to be real, if you want to see it for what it is, there's not much here to see unless you are the type of person that watches auto racing for the car crashes.

You're either in one camp or the other, and the two camps can't have a discussion between them about the Knicks, it's impossible

Will, I'm with you on a lot of this. Seriously I am, especially about watching as an adult or as a child. But we have to agree that adults can take this stuff too far, and start overanalyzing the things that even the most serious of fans would never know. We can agree the cancer is Dolan and all his cronies in the organization are him metastasizing outward. But the realization we have to come to, as adults, is that that cancer can't be cured by analyzing it to death and making up BS cures that won't ever work. All our word-play isn't going to change anything, it just makes it worse. So I propose more of you do what I choose to do, and that's try to look at the game as an adult, but keep that wonderment in my eyes I had when I was kid watching the game of basketball. That way, when the adult in me says this season is F'ed and it's all Dolan's fault and I'm not watching anymore, the kid in me will say it's worth it to hang on because this is a player's game, not an owner's game, and this team has a shot every night to do something great. And even if they don't, someone will amaze me with their talent. Y'all are gonna have a stroke about this someday.

Read this ---> http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=45896 - hopefully you'll smile.

I hear you.

THe problem is my own, you catch yourself living through a pro basketball team, lol, which is ridiculous when you step back and take a breath.

You know, I guess it has to do with growing up, watching your team with your dad, and rooting so hard because you really thought you could affect the outcome. I'm here today because of those memories, and it's human to get a little carried away.

Important to see it for what it is, which is petty entertainment, who cares either way?

I'm on the forum for the banter, number 1, everything else comes second.

Exhale.

YES! I think I found another true FAITHFUL.

It's more than petty entertainment though for us. Unlike movies, TV, even internet BS, when watching a game you are watching men play the hardest, most team oriented game on the planet (I will provide proof if necessary. Biggest proof, no athlete in any other sport can just decide to play basketball. Not possible) in front of thousands of people. Their our modern day gladiators, and entire cities full of people get behind their teams and collectively root for them, and find connection through them. No other form of entertainment can inspire us and ignite community unity like sports. Feel proud you choose this for your entertainment, but we should keep it in perspective.

markvmc wrote:To answer the question, there is one guy available who would put up with Dolan, and who Dolan seems to like. Had the job a few years back too....

Thanks for keeping on topic.

There are a number of good coaches available given the surge in new coaches and the inexplicable firing of many.

George Karl - though history with Melo won't work
Vinny Del Negro - Not the right fit
Jeff Van Gundy - not looking to coach, but I would LOVE to have him back
Stan Van Gundy - no one wants him after he was punked by Howard.
D'Antoni - who you mentioned - won't happen. No one wants him now, and he won't come back. He was quit/fired, that's the worst.
Byron Scott - I'm not down on him, hasn't had a good team to work with since NJ years - 2 finals appearances then.
Lionel Hollins - best option - worked well with limited roster in Memphis, would be able to extract solid team play out of this roster in my opinion. Very surprised he doesn't have a job. Guess it's the price tag.
Scott Skiles - gritty old-school coach, never overly impressed but found some success. Would be a good half-year fall guy.