We might all be out-thinking ourselves when the simplest answer might just be...
1. Even a team with a brilliant GM and a savvy owner who were on the same page would have a tough time overcoming this:
$57 M on these three players this season.
The entire Hawks roster is $58M. We could basically have everyone on the Hawks + Lebron + Marcin Gortat (or any $9M center to allow Horford to play PF sometimes like Varejao)for what Dolan is paying for this team.
PG: Teague
SG: Kyle Korver
SF: Lebron James
PF: Paul Millsap
C: Al Horford
That's a pretty good starting 5 with Lou Williams and Elton Brand coming off the bench.
2. 
Everything else follows from these 2 things.
Felton even being a starter on an NBA team. Ditto MWP.
Being forced to pay JR because we had no other options to improve the team.
Our best bench player being..KMart?
No amount of rotation changes, ceasing of switching on defense or ball movement, or Melo changing his game is going to change the fact that with Amare and Tyson not playing there's $35 MILLION dollars worth of talent and expected production missing.
After all of the maneuvering to get under the cap for Lebron and all the planning done by Donnie and Grunny we're still in the exact place we've been for the last decade.
One of the highest payrolls in the league. Traded away all of our draft picks. Massive albatross contracts. No realistic shot at contention. Revolving door of executives and coaches.
I guess at least we made the playoffs last season and got 54 wins, even with Amare's max contract dead weight, Camby being useless, etc.
The financial situation ends in 2 years and they can start over if they wish. I don't spend much time worrying about the knicks salaries. I'm not understanding the problem some have with Melo and Tyson. For the most part with those 2 guys you can win. Sure STAT having his health issues has put a strain on things, but that happens. IMO the real issue right now is getting Felton healthy, JR hitting shots and not being a black hole and getting this team to develop some chemistry. It's not the end of the world just yet. Everything is ahead of them with a huge amount of the season left. Gotta get more out of the players they have, which we've seen this team play better with pretty much the same players.
It seems that the teams real issue has been their lack of understanding of how important it is to have a very good PG with this group of players. Almost all the players are scorers and finishers and so you MUST have some passers in there to make it all work. Felton isn't really a great passer, so even when he's playing well he's not filling the needs of the team as much as they need. The fact that they haven't been able to find a PG who is a real floor general is a huge problem. Felton is the penetrating and shooting PG and PRigs is the passing PG but can't drive and finish and doesn't like to shoot. Now they're desperate to try and get Rondo, but that is a fantasy.
I just hope they don't trade away more picks in 2015. I would like to do things the right way, at least a different way.
Get some smart players here, hold on to intelligent and athletic players like Lin. Dump low IQ and athletic players like JR Smith.
Get more well rounded players in general. It isn't rocket science.
What's wrong is, we needed pg for last decade, then one falls from god, and we don't keep him!
Knicks need a point guard that's a floor general. Not just a passer....we need a guy that knows who to pass to and when to call his own number. Felton is not that guy. In the Houston game Bargs should have had 50pts. They just refused to follow the hot hand and the mismatch. The point guard had got to take control and Melo has got to feed if that and be ready when the ball swings back his way.
I thought it was going to be two pictures of Dolan
We had a play maker point guard with early Bird Rights and we chose not to sign him.
helloharv wrote:We had a play maker point guard with early Bird Rights and we chose not to sign him.
He had ridiculous contract... MSG cannot afford it.
Dolan cannot afford having smart people with integrity.
He is allergic to them.
He need to have a band of drug addicts and recovering alcoholics along with scumbags like Isiah and Mills.
helloharv wrote:We had a play maker point guard with early Bird Rights and we chose not to sign him.
These contracts have followed a certain path for as long as I can remember. The player goes out, seeks an offer, and then takes it back to his team, who matches it. If the player takes that contract BACK to the team that made the original offer, and the contract is adjusted to include a major hike in the third year if matched by the team with Bird Rights, it is safe to assume that the player does not want to be with that team. Please remember this as you castigate the Knicks for not bringing Lin back. He is where he wanted to be.
Sangfroid wrote:helloharv wrote:We had a play maker point guard with early Bird Rights and we chose not to sign him.
These contracts have followed a certain path for as long as I can remember. The player goes out, seeks an offer, and then takes it back to his team, who matches it. If the player takes that contract BACK to the team that made the original offer, and the contract is adjusted to include a major hike in the third year if matched by the team with Bird Rights, it is safe to assume that the player does not want to be with that team. Please remember this as you castigate the Knicks for not bringing Lin back. He is where he wanted to be.
except that isnt what happened. You only get to present the contract once. So there is no original offer or adjustments, only speculation. Your history is way off, so let me refresh your memory.
*** These are the facts that we know, is these other information? Possibly but these are no up for dispute and paint quite a clear picture regarding Lin and his choices of where "he wanted to be"
FA period starts
Knicks first move is to publicly court another PG named Steve Nash and are willing to include other players (Shump/Fields) to make that happen
Toronto gives Fields a huge contract, the Knicks decline to match and lose a piece in a potential S&T. Nash talks fall apart
Knicks make no offers to Lin and no effort to work with his agents to come to terms
Lin reportedly has an offer on the table from Houston
Woody publicly says "we will match any offer he gets"
Lin's agent takes the Rockets one and only official offer to the league who then presents it to the Knicks as they have the right to match.
Knicks deline. Lin is a Rocket.
Please dont tell me Lin is where he wanted to be. Lin went to the only team that showed interest in offering him a contract. Pretty much end of story on that one.
Just another Dolan/MSG phuck up from top to bottom
IronWillGiroud wrote:What's wrong is, we needed pg for last decade, then one falls from god, and we don't keep him!
Yep....You can't fix Stupid!....maybe it should be "You can't fix DOLAN"
nixluva wrote:The financial situation ends in 2 years and they can start over if they wish. I don't spend much time worrying about the knicks salaries. I'm not understanding the problem some have with Melo and Tyson. For the most part with those 2 guys you can win. Sure STAT having his health issues has put a strain on things, but that happens. IMO the real issue right now is getting Felton healthy, JR hitting shots and not being a black hole and getting this team to develop some chemistry. It's not the end of the world just yet. Everything is ahead of them with a huge amount of the season left. Gotta get more out of the players they have, which we've seen this team play better with pretty much the same players.It seems that the teams real issue has been their lack of understanding of how important it is to have a very good PG with this group of players. Almost all the players are scorers and finishers and so you MUST have some passers in there to make it all work. Felton isn't really a great passer, so even when he's playing well he's not filling the needs of the team as much as they need. The fact that they haven't been able to find a PG who is a real floor general is a huge problem. Felton is the penetrating and shooting PG and PRigs is the passing PG but can't drive and finish and doesn't like to shoot. Now they're desperate to try and get Rondo, but that is a fantasy.
I think you missed my point. Completely agree that you need a very good PG. But when you spend as much as an entire team's salary on your frontcourt, it's unrealistic to expect to also have the flexibility to sign a good PG. When you trade away all of your first round picks, it's tough to draft one too.
Melo has to play at his best like he did in those insane stretches last season. Tyson has to be an absolute middle linebacker, shotblocking, defensive glue, pick and roll finishing beast. Amare has to be a 20-30 pt, 10 reb dunking, automatic J monster.
We're missing two of those guys right now and people are expecting Felton to be something he's not. Dude is a backup PG and gets paid like one. Jarret Jack a backup on a crappy Cleveland team would be a better option.
It would be like Wade and Bosh going down in Miami and people harping on how the team would just be doing better if Mario Chalmers could get his game right. BTW Chalmers might be better than Felton..certainly a better outside shooter and defender.
So the post wasn't meant to be a criticism of Melo and Tyson. I think Knicks fans just have to be realistic. You can't expect much when two players are supposed to be giant building blocks are just not playing at all.
fishmike wrote:Sangfroid wrote:helloharv wrote:We had a play maker point guard with early Bird Rights and we chose not to sign him.
These contracts have followed a certain path for as long as I can remember. The player goes out, seeks an offer, and then takes it back to his team, who matches it. If the player takes that contract BACK to the team that made the original offer, and the contract is adjusted to include a major hike in the third year if matched by the team with Bird Rights, it is safe to assume that the player does not want to be with that team. Please remember this as you castigate the Knicks for not bringing Lin back. He is where he wanted to be.
except that isnt what happened. You only get to present the contract once. So there is no original offer or adjustments, only speculation. Your history is way off, so let me refresh your memory.*** These are the facts that we know, is these other information? Possibly but these are no up for dispute and paint quite a clear picture regarding Lin and his choices of where "he wanted to be"
FA period starts
Knicks first move is to publicly court another PG named Steve Nash and are willing to include other players (Shump/Fields) to make that happen
Toronto gives Fields a huge contract, the Knicks decline to match and lose a piece in a potential S&T. Nash talks fall apart
Knicks make no offers to Lin and no effort to work with his agents to come to terms
Lin reportedly has an offer on the table from Houston
Woody publicly says "we will match any offer he gets"
Lin's agent takes the Rockets one and only official offer to the league who then presents it to the Knicks as they have the right to match.
Knicks deline. Lin is a Rocket.
Please dont tell me Lin is where he wanted to be. Lin went to the only team that showed interest in offering him a contract. Pretty much end of story on that one.
Just another Dolan/MSG phuck up from top to bottom
Thanks for setting that straight. Many here do not understand what happened and keep trying to push the anti-LIN agenda. The fact is the KNICKS could have kept LIN but instead went back on their word and reached out to Felton. Felton is what he is. Lin is young and still improving. BIG MISTAKE.
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:nixluva wrote:The financial situation ends in 2 years and they can start over if they wish. I don't spend much time worrying about the knicks salaries. I'm not understanding the problem some have with Melo and Tyson. For the most part with those 2 guys you can win. Sure STAT having his health issues has put a strain on things, but that happens. IMO the real issue right now is getting Felton healthy, JR hitting shots and not being a black hole and getting this team to develop some chemistry. It's not the end of the world just yet. Everything is ahead of them with a huge amount of the season left. Gotta get more out of the players they have, which we've seen this team play better with pretty much the same players.It seems that the teams real issue has been their lack of understanding of how important it is to have a very good PG with this group of players. Almost all the players are scorers and finishers and so you MUST have some passers in there to make it all work. Felton isn't really a great passer, so even when he's playing well he's not filling the needs of the team as much as they need. The fact that they haven't been able to find a PG who is a real floor general is a huge problem. Felton is the penetrating and shooting PG and PRigs is the passing PG but can't drive and finish and doesn't like to shoot. Now they're desperate to try and get Rondo, but that is a fantasy.
I think you missed my point. Completely agree that you need a very good PG. But when you spend as much as an entire team's salary on your frontcourt, it's unrealistic to expect to also have the flexibility to sign a good PG. When you trade away all of your first round picks, it's tough to draft one too.
Melo has to play at his best like he did in those insane stretches last season. Tyson has to be an absolute middle linebacker, shotblocking, defensive glue, pick and roll finishing beast. Amare has to be a 20-30 pt, 10 reb dunking, automatic J monster.
We're missing two of those guys right now and people are expecting Felton to be something he's not. Dude is a backup PG and gets paid like one. Jarret Jack a backup on a crappy Cleveland team would be a better option.
It would be like Wade and Bosh going down in Miami and people harping on how the team would just be doing better if Mario Chalmers could get his game right. BTW Chalmers might be better than Felton..certainly a better outside shooter and defender.
So the post wasn't meant to be a criticism of Melo and Tyson. I think Knicks fans just have to be realistic. You can't expect much when two players are supposed to be giant building blocks are just not playing at all.
The money hasn't been as detrimental as it seems tho. I actually think we've had some good role players on this team. The issue to me is that we needed to upgrade the PG spot. We literally let a good young PG walk out the door for no reason. As bad as we needed talent at the PG spot I can't for the life of me understand why they would do that. If the Knicks actually put option years in their contracts we may never have lost Copeland.
IMO Melo and TYson are more than capable of giving this team what it needs, so at that point we need a PG to enhance the talent on this team. There really is no reason this team should be so reliant on Felton when they've had opportunity to bolster the PG spot with fresh legs and more talent. Right now if Felton actually went down, we'd be back to a similar situation as we had when MDA was stuck with TD until Lin emerged. Not sure we can get so lucky again with maybe Murry being another surprise success.
nixluva wrote:The money hasn't been as detrimental as it seems tho. I actually think we've had some good role players on this team. The issue to me is that we needed to upgrade the PG spot. We literally let a good young PG walk out the door for no reason. As bad as we needed talent at the PG spot I can't for the life of me understand why they would do that. If the Knicks actually put option years in their contracts we may never have lost Copeland.IMO Melo and TYson are more than capable of giving this team what it needs, so at that point we need a PG to enhance the talent on this team. There really is no reason this team should be so reliant on Felton when they've had opportunity to bolster the PG spot with fresh legs and more talent. Right now if Felton actually went down, we'd be back to a similar situation as we had when MDA was stuck with TD until Lin emerged. Not sure we can get so lucky again with maybe Murry being another surprise success.
I'm confused. You say that the money hasn't been as detrimental as it seems but we need to upgrade Felton. Then you point to Murry as a possible solution, but in your words we'd def. need some luck for him to turn into something.
You know what would help us upgrade at PG and not rely on Murry or some other D-League miracle happening?
MONEY!
I think we are saying the same thing. Stop confusing me!
