Knicks · Here's why the team isn't given max effort (page 1)

When these guys heard that Chris Smith made the team and they lacked depth in the front court there was an outcry..... but not from who you think !

The out cry was from their wives , friends and families.

Players had to try and explain to them why the administrative dept of the knicks made these moves when the owner expected a championship from the team this year.

Players began to say to themselves, if you are gonna try and fool us with this bogus hiring of Chris Smith, we are going to play half halfheartedly.

When Shump gets treated like the person who had a drug suspension and continued bad shot selection, players have to give an answer to close friends and family ABOUT THIS DEBACLE IN THE FRONT OFFICE CALLING THE SHOTS.

So the only way for the players to protest and get back at Dolan is to not perform.

I thought the effort would be fine and the only problem was Danphony?

These are not trading cards. These are people.

fishmike - think about how many players on this roster were acquired under Grunwald's watch.

Then think about what reason Dolan provided for firing Grunwald, on the eve of training camp no less, after the first playoff series in a decade.

It takes a special player to play in NY

"i want to test free agency"-- carmelo anthony

yeah it's because of chris smith.

Players have their own carrier goals.
This what they are working for.
Especially when everybody knows that as a team Knicks will win nothing.
Even as Knicks started bad as a team there are no specific issues with any player hurting his value.
JR may hurt his value but he get his money (and money for his brother) already so his job is done.
Contrary - some player are looking better than expected (like Bargs, HJ, the vets).
Even STAT now not finished but question mark as perception is he is not used properly.
As per playing for MSG or Dolan... Come on... Why anybody will do this after getting paid already?

misterearl wrote:These are not trading cards. These are people.

fishmike - think about how many players on this roster were acquired under Grunwald's watch.

Then think about what reason Dolan provided for firing Grunwald, on the eve of training camp no less, after the first playoff series in a decade.

It takes a special player to play in NY

that was a bit of tongue and cheek but what I appreciate about you misterearl is you seem to actually understand the human element working here. It doesnt matter if you make $30k, $100k or $100mm. If you feel emotionally dumped, unhappy with your workplace, poorly treated... your effort will wane. This isnt a decision so much as cause and effect.

Its why good organizations, sports or otherwise understand the value of building a positive culture. Because when people *feel* like they are on an even playing field, when they *feel* like they are fairly treated and communicated with they work harder and have a more positive attitude.

When they feel others are favored, or that people have unfairly been rewarded or dismissed it creates a culture lacking trust and positivity. It also kills effort, simply because guys will only bother to put forth effort if they know the right people are paying attention.

It also cracks me up when adults on this site say these guys are paid millions and should give max effort. Yes.. they should. Just like I should also for my salary as well. Funny though, when my previous employer started crapping on us funy things started to happen. Guys take longer lunches, put forth less effort, etc etc even though we are being 'paid' the same.

When you look at how folks have been treated here over the years, how Isiah was allowed to treat people (Dolan's GREAT FRIEND Isiah, in case there's any confusion), how Chaney was treated, how Walsh was treated, how Grunwald was treated, situations like Chris Smith... you can see why this team is the way it is, and why every coach and player that comes here seems to get worse.

You hear a lot of folks say they loved playing in NY. Lee, Crawford, Gallo, we could name them all day. Now show me the list of folks who say they loved playing for the Knicks. <crickets>

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:These are not trading cards. These are people.

fishmike - think about how many players on this roster were acquired under Grunwald's watch.

Then think about what reason Dolan provided for firing Grunwald, on the eve of training camp no less, after the first playoff series in a decade.

It takes a special player to play in NY

that was a bit of tongue and cheek but what I appreciate about you misterearl is you seem to actually understand the human element working here. It doesnt matter if you make $30k, $100k or $100mm. If you feel emotionally dumped, unhappy with your workplace, poorly treated... your effort will wane. This isnt a decision so much as cause and effect.

Its why good organizations, sports or otherwise understand the value of building a positive culture. Because when people *feel* like they are on an even playing field, when they *feel* like they are fairly treated and communicated with they work harder and have a more positive attitude.

When they feel others are favored, or that people have unfairly been rewarded or dismissed it creates a culture lacking trust and positivity. It also kills effort, simply because guys will only bother to put forth effort if they know the right people are paying attention.

It also cracks me up when adults on this site say these guys are paid millions and should give max effort. Yes.. they should. Just like I should also for my salary as well. Funny though, when my previous employer started crapping on us funy things started to happen. Guys take longer lunches, put forth less effort, etc etc even though we are being 'paid' the same.

When you look at how folks have been treated here over the years, how Isiah was allowed to treat people (Dolan's GREAT FRIEND Isiah, in case there's any confusion), how Chaney was treated, how Walsh was treated, how Grunwald was treated, situations like Chris Smith... you can see why this team is the way it is, and why every coach and player that comes here seems to get worse.

You hear a lot of folks say they loved playing in NY. Lee, Crawford, Gallo, we could name them all day. Now show me the list of folks who say they loved playing for the Knicks. <crickets>

Excellent post. The truth.
Simple and clear. The case is closed.

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:These are not trading cards. These are people.

fishmike - think about how many players on this roster were acquired under Grunwald's watch.

Then think about what reason Dolan provided for firing Grunwald, on the eve of training camp no less, after the first playoff series in a decade.

It takes a special player to play in NY

that was a bit of tongue and cheek but what I appreciate about you misterearl is you seem to actually understand the human element working here. It doesnt matter if you make $30k, $100k or $100mm. If you feel emotionally dumped, unhappy with your workplace, poorly treated... your effort will wane. This isnt a decision so much as cause and effect.

Its why good organizations, sports or otherwise understand the value of building a positive culture. Because when people *feel* like they are on an even playing field, when they *feel* like they are fairly treated and communicated with they work harder and have a more positive attitude.

When they feel others are favored, or that people have unfairly been rewarded or dismissed it creates a culture lacking trust and positivity. It also kills effort, simply because guys will only bother to put forth effort if they know the right people are paying attention.

It also cracks me up when adults on this site say these guys are paid millions and should give max effort. Yes.. they should. Just like I should also for my salary as well. Funny though, when my previous employer started crapping on us funy things started to happen. Guys take longer lunches, put forth less effort, etc etc even though we are being 'paid' the same.

When you look at how folks have been treated here over the years, how Isiah was allowed to treat people (Dolan's GREAT FRIEND Isiah, in case there's any confusion), how Chaney was treated, how Walsh was treated, how Grunwald was treated, situations like Chris Smith... you can see why this team is the way it is, and why every coach and player that comes here seems to get worse.

You hear a lot of folks say they loved playing in NY. Lee, Crawford, Gallo, we could name them all day. Now show me the list of folks who say they loved playing for the Knicks. <crickets>

+1

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:These are not trading cards. These are people.

fishmike - think about how many players on this roster were acquired under Grunwald's watch.

Then think about what reason Dolan provided for firing Grunwald, on the eve of training camp no less, after the first playoff series in a decade.

It takes a special player to play in NY

that was a bit of tongue and cheek but what I appreciate about you misterearl is you seem to actually understand the human element working here. It doesnt matter if you make $30k, $100k or $100mm. If you feel emotionally dumped, unhappy with your workplace, poorly treated... your effort will wane. This isnt a decision so much as cause and effect.

Its why good organizations, sports or otherwise understand the value of building a positive culture. Because when people *feel* like they are on an even playing field, when they *feel* like they are fairly treated and communicated with they work harder and have a more positive attitude.

When they feel others are favored, or that people have unfairly been rewarded or dismissed it creates a culture lacking trust and positivity. It also kills effort, simply because guys will only bother to put forth effort if they know the right people are paying attention.

It also cracks me up when adults on this site say these guys are paid millions and should give max effort. Yes.. they should. Just like I should also for my salary as well. Funny though, when my previous employer started crapping on us funy things started to happen. Guys take longer lunches, put forth less effort, etc etc even though we are being 'paid' the same.

When you look at how folks have been treated here over the years, how Isiah was allowed to treat people (Dolan's GREAT FRIEND Isiah, in case there's any confusion), how Chaney was treated, how Walsh was treated, how Grunwald was treated, situations like Chris Smith... you can see why this team is the way it is, and why every coach and player that comes here seems to get worse.

You hear a lot of folks say they loved playing in NY. Lee, Crawford, Gallo, we could name them all day. Now show me the list of folks who say they loved playing for the Knicks. <crickets>

+1

+2

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:These are not trading cards. These are people.

fishmike - think about how many players on this roster were acquired under Grunwald's watch.

Then think about what reason Dolan provided for firing Grunwald, on the eve of training camp no less, after the first playoff series in a decade.

It takes a special player to play in NY

that was a bit of tongue and cheek but what I appreciate about you misterearl is you seem to actually understand the human element working here. It doesnt matter if you make $30k, $100k or $100mm. If you feel emotionally dumped, unhappy with your workplace, poorly treated... your effort will wane. This isnt a decision so much as cause and effect.

Its why good organizations, sports or otherwise understand the value of building a positive culture. Because when people *feel* like they are on an even playing field, when they *feel* like they are fairly treated and communicated with they work harder and have a more positive attitude.

When they feel others are favored, or that people have unfairly been rewarded or dismissed it creates a culture lacking trust and positivity. It also kills effort, simply because guys will only bother to put forth effort if they know the right people are paying attention.

It also cracks me up when adults on this site say these guys are paid millions and should give max effort. Yes.. they should. Just like I should also for my salary as well. Funny though, when my previous employer started crapping on us funy things started to happen. Guys take longer lunches, put forth less effort, etc etc even though we are being 'paid' the same.

When you look at how folks have been treated here over the years, how Isiah was allowed to treat people (Dolan's GREAT FRIEND Isiah, in case there's any confusion), how Chaney was treated, how Walsh was treated, how Grunwald was treated, situations like Chris Smith... you can see why this team is the way it is, and why every coach and player that comes here seems to get worse.

You hear a lot of folks say they loved playing in NY. Lee, Crawford, Gallo, we could name them all day. Now show me the list of folks who say they loved playing for the Knicks. <crickets>

+3

Dolan has created a culture of DOom and Gloom. It started when JVG "left for personal reasons" in 2001. He had enough back then.

fishmike wrote:I thought the effort would be fine and the only problem was Danphony?

No Danphony was hired for the same reason Larry Brown was hired .

They were a stop gap, to release more of Dolan and Isiah's madness.

Every YO YO that's puts on a pair of Nike's and a Knicks Uni couldn't handle pressure and front office requirements playing at MSG, even great ones like Lebron.

Playing in Brooklyn(Barclay Center) is easier than playing at MSG.

playa2 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I thought the effort would be fine and the only problem was Danphony?

No Danphony was hired for the same reason Larry Brown was hired .

They were a stop gap, to release more of Dolan and Isiah's madness.

Wasnt Larry Brown hired for 5 years? How long was MDA? Stop gap? In your mind maybe, but not for MSG. They were supposed to be builders and architecs. You yourself said we would be fine with a real coach now that Woody was at the helm. Remember that first run? I do... your serving up revisionist history

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:These are not trading cards. These are people.

fishmike - think about how many players on this roster were acquired under Grunwald's watch.

Then think about what reason Dolan provided for firing Grunwald, on the eve of training camp no less, after the first playoff series in a decade.

It takes a special player to play in NY

that was a bit of tongue and cheek but what I appreciate about you misterearl is you seem to actually understand the human element working here. It doesnt matter if you make $30k, $100k or $100mm. If you feel emotionally dumped, unhappy with your workplace, poorly treated... your effort will wane. This isnt a decision so much as cause and effect.

Its why good organizations, sports or otherwise understand the value of building a positive culture. Because when people *feel* like they are on an even playing field, when they *feel* like they are fairly treated and communicated with they work harder and have a more positive attitude.

When they feel others are favored, or that people have unfairly been rewarded or dismissed it creates a culture lacking trust and positivity. It also kills effort, simply because guys will only bother to put forth effort if they know the right people are paying attention.

It also cracks me up when adults on this site say these guys are paid millions and should give max effort. Yes.. they should. Just like I should also for my salary as well. Funny though, when my previous employer started crapping on us funy things started to happen. Guys take longer lunches, put forth less effort, etc etc even though we are being 'paid' the same.

When you look at how folks have been treated here over the years, how Isiah was allowed to treat people (Dolan's GREAT FRIEND Isiah, in case there's any confusion), how Chaney was treated, how Walsh was treated, how Grunwald was treated, situations like Chris Smith... you can see why this team is the way it is, and why every coach and player that comes here seems to get worse.

You hear a lot of folks say they loved playing in NY. Lee, Crawford, Gallo, we could name them all day. Now show me the list of folks who say they loved playing for the Knicks. <crickets>

great post fish, and the human element should not be ignored. .which is why what dk posted makes so much sense..

"i want to test free agency"-- carmelo anthony

who knows what kind of division this could cause in the locker room...

I agree it starts at the top, dolan has created a toxic environment.. but that also goes with the people he has hired as well, from execs to the players they bring in.. just one big mess..

the situation right now with shumpert is just ridiculous..

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:These are not trading cards. These are people.

fishmike - think about how many players on this roster were acquired under Grunwald's watch.

Then think about what reason Dolan provided for firing Grunwald, on the eve of training camp no less, after the first playoff series in a decade.

It takes a special player to play in NY

that was a bit of tongue and cheek but what I appreciate about you misterearl is you seem to actually understand the human element working here. It doesnt matter if you make $30k, $100k or $100mm. If you feel emotionally dumped, unhappy with your workplace, poorly treated... your effort will wane. This isnt a decision so much as cause and effect.

Its why good organizations, sports or otherwise understand the value of building a positive culture. Because when people *feel* like they are on an even playing field, when they *feel* like they are fairly treated and communicated with they work harder and have a more positive attitude.

When they feel others are favored, or that people have unfairly been rewarded or dismissed it creates a culture lacking trust and positivity. It also kills effort, simply because guys will only bother to put forth effort if they know the right people are paying attention.

It also cracks me up when adults on this site say these guys are paid millions and should give max effort. Yes.. they should. Just like I should also for my salary as well. Funny though, when my previous employer started crapping on us funy things started to happen. Guys take longer lunches, put forth less effort, etc etc even though we are being 'paid' the same.

When you look at how folks have been treated here over the years, how Isiah was allowed to treat people (Dolan's GREAT FRIEND Isiah, in case there's any confusion), how Chaney was treated, how Walsh was treated, how Grunwald was treated, situations like Chris Smith... you can see why this team is the way it is, and why every coach and player that comes here seems to get worse.

You hear a lot of folks say they loved playing in NY. Lee, Crawford, Gallo, we could name them all day. Now show me the list of folks who say they loved playing for the Knicks. <crickets>

+3

Dolan has created a culture of DOom and Gloom. It started when JVG "left for personal reasons" in 2001. He had enough back then.

it starts from the top.... I agree with that... and it trickles down hill..

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:These are not trading cards. These are people.

fishmike - think about how many players on this roster were acquired under Grunwald's watch.

Then think about what reason Dolan provided for firing Grunwald, on the eve of training camp no less, after the first playoff series in a decade.

It takes a special player to play in NY

that was a bit of tongue and cheek but what I appreciate about you misterearl is you seem to actually understand the human element working here. It doesnt matter if you make $30k, $100k or $100mm. If you feel emotionally dumped, unhappy with your workplace, poorly treated... your effort will wane. This isnt a decision so much as cause and effect.

Its why good organizations, sports or otherwise understand the value of building a positive culture. Because when people *feel* like they are on an even playing field, when they *feel* like they are fairly treated and communicated with they work harder and have a more positive attitude.

When they feel others are favored, or that people have unfairly been rewarded or dismissed it creates a culture lacking trust and positivity. It also kills effort, simply because guys will only bother to put forth effort if they know the right people are paying attention.

It also cracks me up when adults on this site say these guys are paid millions and should give max effort. Yes.. they should. Just like I should also for my salary as well. Funny though, when my previous employer started crapping on us funy things started to happen. Guys take longer lunches, put forth less effort, etc etc even though we are being 'paid' the same.

When you look at how folks have been treated here over the years, how Isiah was allowed to treat people (Dolan's GREAT FRIEND Isiah, in case there's any confusion), how Chaney was treated, how Walsh was treated, how Grunwald was treated, situations like Chris Smith... you can see why this team is the way it is, and why every coach and player that comes here seems to get worse.

You hear a lot of folks say they loved playing in NY. Lee, Crawford, Gallo, we could name them all day. Now show me the list of folks who say they loved playing for the Knicks. <crickets>

Another gem from Mike. Well said. Really sums up the issue nicely.

Moonangie wrote:

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:These are not trading cards. These are people.

fishmike - think about how many players on this roster were acquired under Grunwald's watch.

Then think about what reason Dolan provided for firing Grunwald, on the eve of training camp no less, after the first playoff series in a decade.

It takes a special player to play in NY

that was a bit of tongue and cheek but what I appreciate about you misterearl is you seem to actually understand the human element working here. It doesnt matter if you make $30k, $100k or $100mm. If you feel emotionally dumped, unhappy with your workplace, poorly treated... your effort will wane. This isnt a decision so much as cause and effect.

Its why good organizations, sports or otherwise understand the value of building a positive culture. Because when people *feel* like they are on an even playing field, when they *feel* like they are fairly treated and communicated with they work harder and have a more positive attitude.

When they feel others are favored, or that people have unfairly been rewarded or dismissed it creates a culture lacking trust and positivity. It also kills effort, simply because guys will only bother to put forth effort if they know the right people are paying attention.

It also cracks me up when adults on this site say these guys are paid millions and should give max effort. Yes.. they should. Just like I should also for my salary as well. Funny though, when my previous employer started crapping on us funy things started to happen. Guys take longer lunches, put forth less effort, etc etc even though we are being 'paid' the same.

When you look at how folks have been treated here over the years, how Isiah was allowed to treat people (Dolan's GREAT FRIEND Isiah, in case there's any confusion), how Chaney was treated, how Walsh was treated, how Grunwald was treated, situations like Chris Smith... you can see why this team is the way it is, and why every coach and player that comes here seems to get worse.

You hear a lot of folks say they loved playing in NY. Lee, Crawford, Gallo, we could name them all day. Now show me the list of folks who say they loved playing for the Knicks. <crickets>

Another gem from Mike. Well said. Really sums up the issue nicely.

thanks man, honestly its personal experience and very recent. You dont realize (even when you THINK you realize) how much culture and feelings affect daily effort and performance. I was at my last job for 8 years. 6 years into a really good job we saw major changes in senior management. It was awful. Those last two years were awful. Miserable place to work and it really took its toll. My new spot (non-bank) is the exact opposite. The culture is one of sharing knowledge rather than brokering it, its team over I, its cover for your group in front of senior management rather than throwing guys under the bus.

as a result I work harder. Bring more to the table. I look to help coworkers. I look for areas I know I can help and make things easier for someone with less experience than myself. Ive taken some jr guys under my wing and in just a few weeks have shown them some simple things to make their work lives easier. I *feel* better. I *feel* happier. we all like to think we drive our own ships but if you think this stuff doesnt affect people your not being honest with yourselves. Why would an NBA player or coach be different? Athletes are young, strong willedm, rich and yes... very sensitive dudes.

None (most) of us not privy to what goes on in that lockerroom and organization but it doesnt take a psych genius to see there is massive dysfunction there, and anyone who has ever worked like that knows the effects on the workplace and organization and its employees are all encompassing and demoralizing.

I can only hope it changes. If the boss (George) could turn it around ANYONE can.

Makes sense to me. Did anyone else notice the other night in the loss to the Hawks...Amare came out of the game on a time out and Chris Smith jumped off the bench to give hime five (or whatever)...and Stat hit his hand away with his arm...Right there you can see the truth.

fishmike wrote:

misterearl wrote:These are not trading cards. These are people.

fishmike - think about how many players on this roster were acquired under Grunwald's watch.

Then think about what reason Dolan provided for firing Grunwald, on the eve of training camp no less, after the first playoff series in a decade.

It takes a special player to play in NY

that was a bit of tongue and cheek but what I appreciate about you misterearl is you seem to actually understand the human element working here. It doesnt matter if you make $30k, $100k or $100mm. If you feel emotionally dumped, unhappy with your workplace, poorly treated... your effort will wane. This isnt a decision so much as cause and effect.

Its why good organizations, sports or otherwise understand the value of building a positive culture. Because when people *feel* like they are on an even playing field, when they *feel* like they are fairly treated and communicated with they work harder and have a more positive attitude.

When they feel others are favored, or that people have unfairly been rewarded or dismissed it creates a culture lacking trust and positivity. It also kills effort, simply because guys will only bother to put forth effort if they know the right people are paying attention.

It also cracks me up when adults on this site say these guys are paid millions and should give max effort. Yes.. they should. Just like I should also for my salary as well. Funny though, when my previous employer started crapping on us funy things started to happen. Guys take longer lunches, put forth less effort, etc etc even though we are being 'paid' the same.

When you look at how folks have been treated here over the years, how Isiah was allowed to treat people (Dolan's GREAT FRIEND Isiah, in case there's any confusion), how Chaney was treated, how Walsh was treated, how Grunwald was treated, situations like Chris Smith... you can see why this team is the way it is, and why every coach and player that comes here seems to get worse.

You hear a lot of folks say they loved playing in NY. Lee, Crawford, Gallo, we could name them all day. Now show me the list of folks who say they loved playing for the Knicks. <crickets>

fishmike - outstanding post

The hiring of Chris Smith, along with the sudden firing of Glen Grunwald, set the tone for this season.

You really thinking about diving after that loose ball?

misterearl its that simple. I hoped it wouldnt be so... the Grunwald thing was bad. He did a good job here. At the end of the day its Ws and Ls and this franchise hasnt sniffed 54 wins since Patrick was patrolling the paint. BUT… who knows what politics went on, who knows what decisions almost happened or didn’t… we can only speculate.

Chris Smith?? That’s a different story. We all saw the preseason games. We all saw the prospects trying to make the roster and we all knew Chris Smith did not earn his spot, and guys who should have been a part of this team were sent packing to appease (enter speculation) CAA? JR? Who?

Message received loud and clear and we can see it translate on the court.

Some powerful of this world think they owe everybody.
But the only thing they owe is their own misery.
They always alone and came up empty and embarrassed.
Unfortunately the convergence time can be long.
Players, coaches, GMs who went through MSG hell are moving on but Dolans and Isiahs are forever cursed.
It does not makes is easy for Knicks fans… but it is always a hope this people get what they deserve in our lifetime.