Knicks · don't be seduced by bargs pretty moves... (page 3)

nixluva wrote:All I know is Howard and Hibbert were frustrated as hell with Bargs defending them. Haven't seen that from a Knicks Center in a while. People just love to hate on Bargs cuz he's an easy target, but dude has been trying harder and he's not the Knicks problem this year.

+1

Watch the video Ramtour.

You guys know that just by chance the opposing player will sometimes have bad nights. Citing 2 bad performances by the opposing C in 11 games doesn't reveal anything.

Bonn1997 wrote:Watch the video Ramtour.

You guys know that just by chance the opposing player will sometimes have bad nights. Citing 2 bad performances by the opposing C in 11 games doesn't reveal anything.

You do have to admit that neither of these guys are comfortable coming out on the perimeter to guard Bargs...Also early in the game, the lane was open so Carmelo took advantage of a George in the post..Melo had 9 offensive rebounds, could it be those numbers are higher because of Bargs presence??..Can metrics quantify that???

I was a harsh critic of the transaction and the player, but I have no beef with bargnani. Not only has he scored like I expcted but hes playing GREAT defense as well. His job on dwight was the night he earned his knicks stripes in my opinion. If anything he needs the ball more (I cant believe im saying this). Lets hope udrih turns it around too

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Watch the video Ramtour.

You guys know that just by chance the opposing player will sometimes have bad nights. Citing 2 bad performances by the opposing C in 11 games doesn't reveal anything.

You do have to admit that neither of these guys are comfortable coming out on the perimeter to guard Bargs...Also early in the game, the lane was open so Carmelo took advantage of a George in the post..Melo had 9 offensive rebounds, could it be those numbers are higher because of Bargs presence??..Can metrics quantify that???

You didn't watch the video did you? Melo's performance has been awful and so has the whole Knicks' team whenever Bargs is in the game. The only time Melo is playing well is when Bargs exits.

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Watch the video Ramtour.

You guys know that just by chance the opposing player will sometimes have bad nights. Citing 2 bad performances by the opposing C in 11 games doesn't reveal anything.

You do have to admit that neither of these guys are comfortable coming out on the perimeter to guard Bargs...Also early in the game, the lane was open so Carmelo took advantage of a George in the post..Melo had 9 offensive rebounds, could it be those numbers are higher because of Bargs presence??..Can metrics quantify that???

You didn't watch the video did you? Melo's performance has been awful and so has the whole Knicks' team whenever Bargs is in the game. The only time Melo is playing well is when Bargs exits.

I watch the games not just snippets...Bargs was only one of two Knicks with a positive (+,-)...The Knicks started out well with Bargs in the game so I'm not sure if u took those into account..Novak was and is probably the worst defender in the league yet u were a huge supporter...How do u reconcile that??

I love Bargs and I loved the trade last summer. His defense has been a nice surprise.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Watch the video Ramtour.

You guys know that just by chance the opposing player will sometimes have bad nights. Citing 2 bad performances by the opposing C in 11 games doesn't reveal anything.

You do have to admit that neither of these guys are comfortable coming out on the perimeter to guard Bargs...Also early in the game, the lane was open so Carmelo took advantage of a George in the post..Melo had 9 offensive rebounds, could it be those numbers are higher because of Bargs presence??..Can metrics quantify that???

You didn't watch the video did you? Melo's performance has been awful and so has the whole Knicks' team whenever Bargs is in the game. The only time Melo is playing well is when Bargs exits.

I watch the games not just snippets...Bargs was only one of two Knicks with a positive (+,-)...The Knicks started out well with Bargs in the game so I'm not sure if u took those into account..Novak was and is probably the worst defender in the league yet u were a huge supporter...How do u reconcile that??

It looks like you're seeing and/or remembering only what you want to. Explain why Melo is shooting in the 30s FG% when Bargnani is on the court but he's at his normal 45% as soon as Bargs get off the court.
Start a different thread if you want to talk about Novak.

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Watch the video Ramtour.

You guys know that just by chance the opposing player will sometimes have bad nights. Citing 2 bad performances by the opposing C in 11 games doesn't reveal anything.

You do have to admit that neither of these guys are comfortable coming out on the perimeter to guard Bargs...Also early in the game, the lane was open so Carmelo took advantage of a George in the post..Melo had 9 offensive rebounds, could it be those numbers are higher because of Bargs presence??..Can metrics quantify that???

You didn't watch the video did you? Melo's performance has been awful and so has the whole Knicks' team whenever Bargs is in the game. The only time Melo is playing well is when Bargs exits.

I watch the games not just snippets...Bargs was only one of two Knicks with a positive (+,-)...The Knicks started out well with Bargs in the game so I'm not sure if u took those into account..Novak was and is probably the worst defender in the league yet u were a huge supporter...How do u reconcile that??

It looks like you're seeing and/or remembering only what you want to. Explain why Melo is shooting in the 30s FG% when Bargnani is on the court but he's at his normal 45% as soon as Bargs get off the court.
Start a different thread if you want to talk about Novak.

Could you explain it? I just watch the games. I don't see the implied lack of chemistry there. I think Melo needs to share with Bargs a bit more. Not many guys at any height hit the mid range shot like Bargs.

IMO too often Woody doesn't have the team running offense that will lead to more ball and player movement. Rather they just settle into Melo ISO and then get poor spacing and no movement. I guarantee you that with the team running better sets that Melo would be getting higher % shots and his teammates as well. To think that Bargs is somehow the problem is to not fully understand how the offense has been poor executed by the Coach and PG when Felton has been in there. Beno just had his 1st really effective game and Prigs doesn't play enough.

Thing is Bargs is a PnP guy and so it's best to actually run sets that will use him that way in the mid range and out by the 2pt line. I still haven't seen them run an effective 2 man with Melo and Bargs as I think they should. That kind of play should be successful since teams would have to really pick their poison in that situation. That to me is a coaching issue.

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Watch the video Ramtour.

You guys know that just by chance the opposing player will sometimes have bad nights. Citing 2 bad performances by the opposing C in 11 games doesn't reveal anything.

You do have to admit that neither of these guys are comfortable coming out on the perimeter to guard Bargs...Also early in the game, the lane was open so Carmelo took advantage of a George in the post..Melo had 9 offensive rebounds, could it be those numbers are higher because of Bargs presence??..Can metrics quantify that???

You didn't watch the video did you? Melo's performance has been awful and so has the whole Knicks' team whenever Bargs is in the game. The only time Melo is playing well is when Bargs exits.

I watch the games not just snippets...Bargs was only one of two Knicks with a positive (+,-)...The Knicks started out well with Bargs in the game so I'm not sure if u took those into account..Novak was and is probably the worst defender in the league yet u were a huge supporter...How do u reconcile that??

It looks like you're seeing and/or remembering only what you want to. Explain why Melo is shooting in the 30s FG% when Bargnani is on the court but he's at his normal 45% as soon as Bargs get off the court.
Start a different thread if you want to talk about Novak.

Too small a sample size to draw any definitive conclusion...I doubt very much Bargs presence has anything to do with it...Harden another atrocious defender that u love so much...I guess you care about only two guys playing defense in this league, Melo and Bargs...

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Watch the video Ramtour.

You guys know that just by chance the opposing player will sometimes have bad nights. Citing 2 bad performances by the opposing C in 11 games doesn't reveal anything.

You do have to admit that neither of these guys are comfortable coming out on the perimeter to guard Bargs...Also early in the game, the lane was open so Carmelo took advantage of a George in the post..Melo had 9 offensive rebounds, could it be those numbers are higher because of Bargs presence??..Can metrics quantify that???

You didn't watch the video did you? Melo's performance has been awful and so has the whole Knicks' team whenever Bargs is in the game. The only time Melo is playing well is when Bargs exits.

I watch the games not just snippets...Bargs was only one of two Knicks with a positive (+,-)...The Knicks started out well with Bargs in the game so I'm not sure if u took those into account..Novak was and is probably the worst defender in the league yet u were a huge supporter...How do u reconcile that??

It looks like you're seeing and/or remembering only what you want to. Explain why Melo is shooting in the 30s FG% when Bargnani is on the court but he's at his normal 45% as soon as Bargs get off the court.
Start a different thread if you want to talk about Novak.

Could you explain it? I just watch the games. I don't see the implied lack of chemistry there. I think Melo needs to share with Bargs a bit more. Not many guys at any height hit the mid range shot like Bargs.

To be honest I think melo sacrifices his game quite a bit with bargs on the floor.

But those two really have little to do with why the team is losing.

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Watch the video Ramtour.

You guys know that just by chance the opposing player will sometimes have bad nights. Citing 2 bad performances by the opposing C in 11 games doesn't reveal anything.

You do have to admit that neither of these guys are comfortable coming out on the perimeter to guard Bargs...Also early in the game, the lane was open so Carmelo took advantage of a George in the post..Melo had 9 offensive rebounds, could it be those numbers are higher because of Bargs presence??..Can metrics quantify that???

You didn't watch the video did you? Melo's performance has been awful and so has the whole Knicks' team whenever Bargs is in the game. The only time Melo is playing well is when Bargs exits.

I watch the games not just snippets...Bargs was only one of two Knicks with a positive (+,-)...The Knicks started out well with Bargs in the game so I'm not sure if u took those into account..Novak was and is probably the worst defender in the league yet u were a huge supporter...How do u reconcile that??

It looks like you're seeing and/or remembering only what you want to. Explain why Melo is shooting in the 30s FG% when Bargnani is on the court but he's at his normal 45% as soon as Bargs get off the court.
Start a different thread if you want to talk about Novak.

Could you explain it? I just watch the games. I don't see the implied lack of chemistry there. I think Melo needs to share with Bargs a bit more. Not many guys at any height hit the mid range shot like Bargs.

To be honest I think melo sacrifices his game quite a bit with bargs on the floor.

But those two really have little to do with why the team is losing.

Yes... they should have something to do with this team winning. But they not.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Watch the video Ramtour.

You guys know that just by chance the opposing player will sometimes have bad nights. Citing 2 bad performances by the opposing C in 11 games doesn't reveal anything.

You do have to admit that neither of these guys are comfortable coming out on the perimeter to guard Bargs...Also early in the game, the lane was open so Carmelo took advantage of a George in the post..Melo had 9 offensive rebounds, could it be those numbers are higher because of Bargs presence??..Can metrics quantify that???

You didn't watch the video did you? Melo's performance has been awful and so has the whole Knicks' team whenever Bargs is in the game. The only time Melo is playing well is when Bargs exits.

I watch the games not just snippets...Bargs was only one of two Knicks with a positive (+,-)...The Knicks started out well with Bargs in the game so I'm not sure if u took those into account..Novak was and is probably the worst defender in the league yet u were a huge supporter...How do u reconcile that??

It looks like you're seeing and/or remembering only what you want to. Explain why Melo is shooting in the 30s FG% when Bargnani is on the court but he's at his normal 45% as soon as Bargs get off the court.
Start a different thread if you want to talk about Novak.

Too small a sample size to draw any definitive conclusion...I doubt very much Bargs presence has anything to do with it...Harden another atrocious defender that u love so much...I guess you care about only two guys playing defense in this league, Melo and Bargs...

hahaha. Nice try to switch the topic. If you want to the discuss Harden's defense (and you might be surprised by some of the data), then see comment on Novak.
Regarding the Melo-Bargs FG% stat, you're right that it's too small a sample to make future predictions, but you shouldn't have asked about the metrics quantifying Barg's impact on the team if this was your concern.

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Watch the video Ramtour.

You guys know that just by chance the opposing player will sometimes have bad nights. Citing 2 bad performances by the opposing C in 11 games doesn't reveal anything.

You do have to admit that neither of these guys are comfortable coming out on the perimeter to guard Bargs...Also early in the game, the lane was open so Carmelo took advantage of a George in the post..Melo had 9 offensive rebounds, could it be those numbers are higher because of Bargs presence??..Can metrics quantify that???

You didn't watch the video did you? Melo's performance has been awful and so has the whole Knicks' team whenever Bargs is in the game. The only time Melo is playing well is when Bargs exits.

I watch the games not just snippets...Bargs was only one of two Knicks with a positive (+,-)...The Knicks started out well with Bargs in the game so I'm not sure if u took those into account..Novak was and is probably the worst defender in the league yet u were a huge supporter...How do u reconcile that??

It looks like you're seeing and/or remembering only what you want to. Explain why Melo is shooting in the 30s FG% when Bargnani is on the court but he's at his normal 45% as soon as Bargs get off the court.
Start a different thread if you want to talk about Novak.

Too small a sample size to draw any definitive conclusion...I doubt very much Bargs presence has anything to do with it...Harden another atrocious defender that u love so much...I guess you care about only two guys playing defense in this league, Melo and Bargs...

hahaha. Nice try to switch the topic. If you want to the discuss Harden's defense (and you might be surprised by some of the data), then see comment on Novak.
Regarding the Melo-Bargs FG% stat, you're right that it's too small a sample to make future predictions, but you shouldn't have asked about the metrics quantifying Barg's impact on the team if this was your concern.

Bonn where can I find the Melo-Bargs stat..That is a fantastic find..Melo 47% in the first half of games this season and 38% in the second half..He is playing 40 mins per..Seems to be wearing down..But u say when he plays with Bargs, he shoots 30s%?..He shoots overall 41.6%, so its not so far fetched to believe that is possible...What is the exact percentage??

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Watch the video Ramtour.

You guys know that just by chance the opposing player will sometimes have bad nights. Citing 2 bad performances by the opposing C in 11 games doesn't reveal anything.

You do have to admit that neither of these guys are comfortable coming out on the perimeter to guard Bargs...Also early in the game, the lane was open so Carmelo took advantage of a George in the post..Melo had 9 offensive rebounds, could it be those numbers are higher because of Bargs presence??..Can metrics quantify that???

You didn't watch the video did you? Melo's performance has been awful and so has the whole Knicks' team whenever Bargs is in the game. The only time Melo is playing well is when Bargs exits.

I watch the games not just snippets...Bargs was only one of two Knicks with a positive (+,-)...The Knicks started out well with Bargs in the game so I'm not sure if u took those into account..Novak was and is probably the worst defender in the league yet u were a huge supporter...How do u reconcile that??

It looks like you're seeing and/or remembering only what you want to. Explain why Melo is shooting in the 30s FG% when Bargnani is on the court but he's at his normal 45% as soon as Bargs get off the court.
Start a different thread if you want to talk about Novak.

Too small a sample size to draw any definitive conclusion...I doubt very much Bargs presence has anything to do with it...Harden another atrocious defender that u love so much...I guess you care about only two guys playing defense in this league, Melo and Bargs...

hahaha. Nice try to switch the topic. If you want to the discuss Harden's defense (and you might be surprised by some of the data), then see comment on Novak.
Regarding the Melo-Bargs FG% stat, you're right that it's too small a sample to make future predictions, but you shouldn't have asked about the metrics quantifying Barg's impact on the team if this was your concern.

Bonn where can I find the Melo-Bargs stat..That is a fantastic find..Melo 47% in the first half of games this season and 38% in the second half..He is playing 40 mins per..Seems to be wearing down..But u say when he plays with Bargs, he shoots 30s%?..He shoots overall 41.6%, so its not so far fetched to believe that is possible...What is the exact percentage??

Again, watch the video. It goes through all this.

callmened wrote:I was a harsh critic of the transaction and the player, but I have no beef with bargnani. Not only has he scored like I expcted but hes playing GREAT defense as well. His job on dwight was the night he earned his knicks stripes in my opinion. If anything he needs the ball more (I cant believe im saying this). Lets hope udrih turns it around too

I'm late on this convo but I agree with this and what nixluva is saying.

and it's not about Beno turning it around....it's about Woodson leaving the dude in the starting line-up until they trade for a better player. Felton should be on the bench going forward or traded.

He was playing really well in Orlando down the stretch...he actually put up decent numbers in the past in sactown. The bucks don't count cuz he was benched for Brandon Jennings.

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Watch the video Ramtour.

You guys know that just by chance the opposing player will sometimes have bad nights. Citing 2 bad performances by the opposing C in 11 games doesn't reveal anything.

You do have to admit that neither of these guys are comfortable coming out on the perimeter to guard Bargs...Also early in the game, the lane was open so Carmelo took advantage of a George in the post..Melo had 9 offensive rebounds, could it be those numbers are higher because of Bargs presence??..Can metrics quantify that???

You didn't watch the video did you? Melo's performance has been awful and so has the whole Knicks' team whenever Bargs is in the game. The only time Melo is playing well is when Bargs exits.

I watch the games not just snippets...Bargs was only one of two Knicks with a positive (+,-)...The Knicks started out well with Bargs in the game so I'm not sure if u took those into account..Novak was and is probably the worst defender in the league yet u were a huge supporter...How do u reconcile that??

It looks like you're seeing and/or remembering only what you want to. Explain why Melo is shooting in the 30s FG% when Bargnani is on the court but he's at his normal 45% as soon as Bargs get off the court.
Start a different thread if you want to talk about Novak.

Too small a sample size to draw any definitive conclusion...I doubt very much Bargs presence has anything to do with it...Harden another atrocious defender that u love so much...I guess you care about only two guys playing defense in this league, Melo and Bargs...

hahaha. Nice try to switch the topic. If you want to the discuss Harden's defense (and you might be surprised by some of the data), then see comment on Novak.
Regarding the Melo-Bargs FG% stat, you're right that it's too small a sample to make future predictions, but you shouldn't have asked about the metrics quantifying Barg's impact on the team if this was your concern.

Bonn where can I find the Melo-Bargs stat..That is a fantastic find..Melo 47% in the first half of games this season and 38% in the second half..He is playing 40 mins per..Seems to be wearing down..But u say when he plays with Bargs, he shoots 30s%?..He shoots overall 41.6%, so its not so far fetched to believe that is possible...What is the exact percentage??

Again, watch the video. It goes through all this.

It's a subjective video...For a guy who is shooting 41.6%, saying he shoot less the 40% while playing alongside one individual is not really ground breaking...It's nit picking..I'm sure u could find many other teammates that this stat applies to as well... What I think is more important is that Melo shoots 47% in the first half this season and 38% in the second...I think he is playing to many minutes...I don't want to take this thread in another direction...

It's 45% without Bargs and in the 30s (don't know the exact #) without Bargs. You're right it's not ground breaking but it certainly doesn't support your claim that Bargs is *helping* Melo by spreading the floor.

Im not sure what some are watching but Bargs has been better than advertised defensively. He's done a really good job bodying up striong bigs at 5 and is alot better than those two D stiffs Novak and Copeland who cant even get on the court these days

Bonn1997 wrote:It's 45% without Bargs and in the 30s (don't know the exact #) without Bargs. You're right it's not ground breaking but it certainly doesn't support your claim that Bargs is *helping* Melo by spreading the floor.

If you saw the Inidana/Knick game, can u describe what was happening in the post with Melo against Stevenson/George while Hibbert was guarding Bargs on the perimeter??..I'll answer..Melo was abusing both players in the low post...In last years' playoffs, I remember Hibbert body-ing up Melo time and time again when Melo beat his man to the rim...

It's one game but we are only 11 games into the season...