gunsnewing wrote:How is SVG a better coach than JVG? SVG made the finals with Howard when the East was weak. I like SVG but he is not his brother who already proved he can do it in New York even coaching against Michael Jordan
Stan displayed much greater offensive ingenuity, while wielding one of the best defensive schemes at that time. For years, the Magic happened to defend the 3 better than anyone in the league, while being a leader in 3 pointers made and 3 point efficiency. Considering what the bread and butter was for the Knicks last year (league leading 3 pointers made, one of the league leaders in 3 point effiency, a league leader in pick and roll efficiency and one of the beat defensive teams during our winning streaks), SVG could get much more out of this team than JVG could. In an ideal world, SVG would be our lieutenant (coach) and JVG my sergeant (lead assistant). Incidentally, I think the players we'd need to get the most of their coaching happen to be current and former Magic I.e. Aaron Afflalo, Jameer Nelson, Glen Davis, Brandon Bass, etc.
This team has zero efficient 3pt shooters
gunsnewing wrote:This team has zero efficient 3pt shooters
We'd need a trade or two but they are available (e.g. Marvin Williams, Earl Clark, Jimmer Fredette....), including the guys I just mentioned.
There are no more news about this. There cannot be any truth to this one. Too bad.
Nalod wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:If JVG comes back, he could bring SVG with him. That would be interesting. Perhaps LJ or Starks could become assistants too. The team needs to inject some PRIDE back onto the court. Bring back JVG - give him defensive players like Chandler, SHump and Peace. Add a scorer in Melo with Bargs and Jr and this team has enough to do something. D comes first, hold teams to 85 and they can win with a JVG offense.
I would look to trade Smith, Felton, Stat to anyone who would dare to take them. Get balls, a pizza, a Civic, I don't care, just move those guys.
really? stan is likely a better coach!
Bring back former players to inject "pride"? Seriously? Paid professionals with low self esteem need not apply and have no place at this level. Knicks need to stop stripping the cupboard to get stars (Marbury,Eddy,Melo) and then trying to fill the roster with reject physically talented mental midgets thinking it can succeed. IN fact, Starks and JR have a lot in common. Physically talented low IQ players!
LJ was a no. 1 pick with HOF talent in line with Barkley. How he become a knick? An $84,000,000 contract and a bad back. He played for love or for contract? I don't know, he was a great because he really gave everything he had. You can't teach what he had. sorry.
I disagree. JVG made the finals as a coach. SVG never did. Players improved under JVG. SVG is better offensively and that is why he is the top assistant. JVG is the head coach because he is the task master. He is the workaholic.
I also think Starks was a more IQ player than Smith by far. He was also more hard nosed and had less, yes LESS talent than JR. JR is a pot smoking dope. He had so much last year going to the rim and now he forgets that and constantly chucks shots up. Yes, Game 7, I know. I watched it. I blame Riley more than Starks that night. JR hopes he can have HALF the legacy that Starks has as NY KNICKERBBOCKER.
LJ came over in a trade for Mason. He transformed his game from a low post beast to a defensive player who could hit a 3 pointer. Yes, HOF talent but his back kept him from reaching his levels.
What is so bad about bringing back the idea of pride? Melo has none. He smiles after he chokes. I don't recall Starks or LJ smiling when they lost to the Rockets and SPurs respectively.
Silverfuel wrote:There are no more news about this. There cannot be any truth to this one. Too bad.
I think it's very possible. I thought so last year. JVG seemed very interested in the Knicks team for a guy who's been away from the team for over a decade. The praising of Melo Tyson and Shumpert. Admitting he his biggest regret is quitting a good thing with Kay. The only thing is would he do it in season or would we have to wait til the offseason like you said. JVG is not one to replace coaches in season. I don't really think you can delay the inevitable though
As much as I want to blow the whole thing up. This is a lot more realistic considering the owner. Make a splash at head coach, get the most of of our better players, somehow make the playoffs and avoid giving up a lottery pick. Change the culture and go for it after 2015
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Nalod wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:If JVG comes back, he could bring SVG with him. That would be interesting. Perhaps LJ or Starks could become assistants too. The team needs to inject some PRIDE back onto the court. Bring back JVG - give him defensive players like Chandler, SHump and Peace. Add a scorer in Melo with Bargs and Jr and this team has enough to do something. D comes first, hold teams to 85 and they can win with a JVG offense.
I would look to trade Smith, Felton, Stat to anyone who would dare to take them. Get balls, a pizza, a Civic, I don't care, just move those guys.
really? stan is likely a better coach!
Bring back former players to inject "pride"? Seriously? Paid professionals with low self esteem need not apply and have no place at this level. Knicks need to stop stripping the cupboard to get stars (Marbury,Eddy,Melo) and then trying to fill the roster with reject physically talented mental midgets thinking it can succeed. IN fact, Starks and JR have a lot in common. Physically talented low IQ players!
LJ was a no. 1 pick with HOF talent in line with Barkley. How he become a knick? An $84,000,000 contract and a bad back. He played for love or for contract? I don't know, he was a great because he really gave everything he had. You can't teach what he had. sorry.
I disagree. JVG made the finals as a coach. SVG never did. Players improved under JVG. SVG is better offensively and that is why he is the top assistant. JVG is the head coach because he is the task master. He is the workaholic.
I also think Starks was a more IQ player than Smith by far. He was also more hard nosed and had less, yes LESS talent than JR. JR is a pot smoking dope. He had so much last year going to the rim and now he forgets that and constantly chucks shots up. Yes, Game 7, I know. I watched it. I blame Riley more than Starks that night. JR hopes he can have HALF the legacy that Starks has as NY KNICKERBBOCKER.
LJ came over in a trade for Mason. He transformed his game from a low post beast to a defensive player who could hit a 3 pointer. Yes, HOF talent but his back kept him from reaching his levels.
What is so bad about bringing back the idea of pride? Melo has none. He smiles after he chokes. I don't recall Starks or LJ smiling when they lost to the Rockets and SPurs respectively.
I don't recall those guys smiling period after losses
gunsnewing wrote:This team has zero efficient 3pt shooters
And zero healthy, efficient 2 point shooters!
Van Gundy for head coach, Ewing, Oak, Starks as assistants.
Seriously though, him quitting didn't go over well with me. I'd want to hear from him why he wouldn't quit again.
But I would wait until we get Tyson and Tyler in the lineup before making a coaching change.
JVG is an old school coach, I don't see how he would fit with this roster. He was never known to be an offensive minded coach so the offense would still stink and we don't have the defensive players for his defense philosophies to work. He isn't going to turn Melo into a less selfish team player and leader as he couldn't do it with Steve Franchise.
You need a great motivator like Doc Rivers or Mark Jackson for this crew or a chemistry builder like Phil Jackson.
ToddTT wrote:Van Gundy for head coach, Ewing, Oak, Starks as assistants. Seriously though, him quitting didn't go over well with me. I'd want to hear from him why he wouldn't quit again.
But I would wait until we get Tyson and Tyler in the lineup before making a coaching change.
I rather a coach quit after butting heads with the owner than be the ultimate yes man and tow the company line. That's just me tho
newyorknewyork wrote:JVG is an old school coach, I don't see how he would fit with this roster. He was never known to be an offensive minded coach so the offense would still stink and we don't have the defensive players for his defense philosophies to work. He isn't going to turn Melo into a less selfish team player and leader as he couldn't do it with Steve Franchise. You need a great motivator like Doc Rivers or Mark Jackson for this crew or a chemistry builder like Phil Jackson.
JVG I will make it work. There are plenty of defensive players in Tyson, Shumpert, Kmart, Artest, Murray and Aldrich. And he will get the most out of Melo, Bargnani and THJ defensively.
Felton
Amare
Jr
Are lost causes and need to be removed immediately
All concepts. Rid of Amare just like that.
Didn't Stan coach Orlando to the finals?
"get the most out of....."
How does Starks install pride? Starks was a high IQ player?
Alllllright then!!!
You know I actually dislike Starks very much as a player, but there's one thing he had and it was heart. That's the main reason I like him over JR Smith. Starks was also a much better defender than JR Smith.
Starks would never smoke/snort us out of the playoffs, that's for sure.
IronWillGiroud wrote:Starks would never smoke/snort us out of the playoffs, that's for sure.
JR will never make up for that,
Guy's a punk,
#FOH JR!! :)
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:This team has zero efficient 3pt shooters
And zero healthy, efficient 2 point shooters!
lol true
It's quite impressive that we've somehow assembled a roster of players that can't shoot 2's, can't shoot 3's, can't drive to the basket and can't defend.
IronWillGiroud wrote:Starks would never smoke/snort us out of the playoffs, that's for sure.
Of course not... (cough, finals game 7 rumors, cough)
Game 6 starks carried us back to within 3 pts and Hakeems finger block on his last shot saved the day. We forget what a great game 6 he had.
JR has similar ability and similar stories of the franchise in need of their talents and willing to put up with the darker side. Their inability to control emotions often led to fights, technical fouls and head-scratching, careless decisions. It makes Knicks fans gag. The lapses in judgment – like throwing balls out of bounds at crucial moments – all come with the territory. Starks played with a bigger heart and off the court made better decisions. I think Starks back ground made him more appreciative of the opportunity and he enjoyed the celebrity. JR takes things for granted and is careless.
Starks had been given coaching opportunities with an ABA team in the last 10 years (some scrub league attempt) and to be with the knicks. I suppose for what ever reason it never advanced.
For fans to imply that a player can some how teach motivation is a far gone conclusion. Great coaches will tell you it can't be done at the professional level.
Starks could give you "The Dunk", "The head butt" an other wonderful moments but he also gave us fits. Same for Mason, who many forgot was exiled for his partying ways. When found in a limo with naked 14 year old girls it was time to jettison him for value where we ate LJ's contract as the prerequisite. LJ's leadership and work ethic fit into the slug like offense we ran during the post Nellie era.
If we stayed with Nellie and traded or let ewing walk will always be the turning point of the franchise for that era.
JVG in 1999 was enroute to getting fired as his roster constructed by Grunfeld was run and gun and he preferred a system that catered to Ewings game. He owed his head coaching career to Patrick. Naturally Grunfeld had to go after '99. If we could have parlayed ewing into an appreciating asset instead of resigning him to a mega contract and watch him decline the franchise history could even to this day be much different. MSG was scared of what the box office reaction would be. Instead MSG held on which gave us the 99' thrill but eventually turned into the unbalanced roster that JVG walked away from homogenized yawnfest that was Layden and eventually became the Reign of terror that was Isiah (trading away picks for players while the win count does not materialize). We are experiencing this again.
While Nellie might not have achieved a championship and might have hit a brief rough patch, the benefit of hindsight shows that would have been a speedbump compared to what would eventually happen.
