Knicks · You can sense the frusteration and growing animosity building for the Knicks (page 1)

If this holds by half way point and on garden will be half capacity--it seems like that is the only way to break this. The fan is their own worst enemy buying tix

I met a couple from another country that were here for the holidays. They were thrilled about attending a Knicks game at the Garden. Even though the Knicks got crushed.

We picked the wrong team to love. Of course most of us had no idea Napoleon was going to own and run the team from 1998 and counting

MSG is a tourist attraction. Winning has many definitions

I think waiving Chris Smith would be a great start to showing the players there is a commitment still to trying and salvage the season. I wonder if Shump was given sometime in Erie if he could get his game back. If not the Knicks need to move him. His career is resembling Terrence Williams more and more as time goes by. The Knicks can't do anything with JR until January but I think they need to move him if at all possible.

Nalod wrote:MSG is a tourist attraction. Winning has many definitions

BRIGGS - The Garden will never be half empty. Seeing the Knicks is equivalent to attending a Broadway play, with court side celebrities as the sideshow. Season tickets are the property of companies and executives who use halftime to network.

I miss the roar from the blue seats.

misterearl wrote:

Nalod wrote:MSG is a tourist attraction. Winning has many definitions

BRIGGS - The Garden will never be half empty. Seeing the Knicks is equivalent to attending a Broadway play, with court side celebrities as the sideshow. Season tickets are the property of companies and executives who use halftime to network.

I miss the roar from the blue seats.

That's not true, there were tons of empty seats during the Layden/Isiah dark ages.

misterearl wrote:

Nalod wrote:MSG is a tourist attraction. Winning has many definitions

BRIGGS - The Garden will never be half empty. Seeing the Knicks is equivalent to attending a Broadway play, with court side celebrities as the sideshow. Season tickets are the property of companies and executives who use halftime to network.

I miss the roar from the blue seats.

Ive been at the Garden when its been less than half full multiple times. If the Knicks are 17-38 the tix might be sold--but the garden will be a ghost town.

VCoug wrote:

misterearl wrote:

Nalod wrote:MSG is a tourist attraction. Winning has many definitions

BRIGGS - The Garden will never be half empty. Seeing the Knicks is equivalent to attending a Broadway play, with court side celebrities as the sideshow. Season tickets are the property of companies and executives who use halftime to network.

I miss the roar from the blue seats.

That's not true, there were tons of empty seats during the Layden/Isiah dark ages.

If a Broadway show scks if it gets enough bad publicity--people will simply do something else. Ive ben going to the garden since mid 70s as a kid--good times and bad times---the Garden can be just as empty as Milwaukee.

Tickets get sold, people just don't use them.

BRIGGS wrote:

misterearl wrote:

Nalod wrote:MSG is a tourist attraction. Winning has many definitions

BRIGGS - The Garden will never be half empty. Seeing the Knicks is equivalent to attending a Broadway play, with court side celebrities as the sideshow. Season tickets are the property of companies and executives who use halftime to network.

I miss the roar from the blue seats.

Ive been at the Garden when its been less than half full multiple times. If the Knicks are 17-38 the tix might be sold--but the garden will be a ghost town.

And even when they are sold they're at a steep discount and even given away.

Yea like when we used to go to games for $30-40 during the Isiah yrs. Now you can't get in the building for under $100

We maybe now you can at 7-18

you won't see games poorly attended until next year - when those poor souls unfortunate to have season tickets this year decide to better invest their money next year.

Seats were empty in the Age of Isiah because there weren't any stars besides Marbury, and that might be more 5 borough fame than national, and he wasn't an all-star nor likable as a Knick.

I saw the signings of Amar'e and Melo as name brands/jersey sellers brought in to prevent the empty seat issue: likable marquee names that casual fans and tourists will want to see. Nobody was checking for Al Harrington. I mean, even if they suck, you still get to watch Melo, an All-Star and Olympian for 40+ minutes... and a career night from someone on the visitor's side!

NBA attendance numbers: is that tickets sold or people through the gate?

DrAlphaeus wrote:Seats were empty in the Age of Isiah because there weren't any stars besides Marbury, and that might be more 5 borough fame than national, and he wasn't an all-star nor likable as a Knick.

I saw the signings of Amar'e and Melo as name brands/jersey sellers brought in to prevent the empty seat issue: likable marquee names that casual fans and tourists will want to see. Nobody was checking for Al Harrington. I mean, even if they suck, you still get to watch Melo, an All-Star and Olympian for 40+ minutes... and a career night from someone on the visitor's side!

NBA attendance numbers: is that tickets sold or people through the gate?

Marbury was an all-star Olympian too though

Tons of empty seats?

VCoug wrote:

That's not true, there were tons of empty seats during the Layden/Isiah dark ages.

NYK Average Attendance by Season

2011-12 652,179 33 19,763
2010-11 808,879 41 19,728
2009-10 799,550 41 19,501
2008-09 790,801 41 19,287

2006-07 771,017 41 18,805
2005-06 776,176 41 18,931
2004-05 800,144 41 19,515

2003-04 785,739 41 19,164
2002-03 779,389 41 19,011
2001-02 810,283 41 19,763
2000-01 810,283 41 19,763

1999-00 810,283 41 19,763

1998-99 494,075 25 19,763
1997-98 810,283 41 19,763
1996-97 810,283 41 19,763
1995-96 810,283 41 19,763

1994-95 810,283 41 19,763
1993-94 810,283 41 19,763
1992-93 804,840 41 19,630
1991-92 731,371 41 17,838
1990-91 654,962 41 15,975
1989-90 730,432 41 17,815
1988-89 746,851 41 18,216

VCoug - you do the math. Please overlay the Layden years. 1999-2003.

I guess it doesn't matter to Dolan if the Garden is empty as long as tickets are sold. I don't get how we used to get tickets for under $4O though if games were sold out during the Isiah years

Bonn1997 wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:Seats were empty in the Age of Isiah because there weren't any stars besides Marbury, and that might be more 5 borough fame than national, and he wasn't an all-star nor likable as a Knick.

I saw the signings of Amar'e and Melo as name brands/jersey sellers brought in to prevent the empty seat issue: likable marquee names that casual fans and tourists will want to see. Nobody was checking for Al Harrington. I mean, even if they suck, you still get to watch Melo, an All-Star and Olympian for 40+ minutes... and a career night from someone on the visitor's side!

NBA attendance numbers: is that tickets sold or people through the gate?

Marbury was an all-star Olympian too though

Guess I should say Gold Medal winner. He got a bronze on an underachieving squad, and no all-star call ups while here, then banished to the bench by ...

I see the dip below 19K for 2005-06, the Larry Brown/Marbury/Crawford/Curry 23 wins Knicks.

Who cares about crowd noise any more when you can pipe it in?!

Most of the tickets go to corporations.
They use it for various marketing stuff and for some casual benefits to employees.
Some of this ending up on secondary market as well as tickets dumped in bulk to re-sellers on chip.
Then black market decides the price. Can be anything from $15 to $1000...
If team is too bad and celebs will stop coming some of this tickets will be never used...
But officially they all will get sold. The Garden is small for NYC.. very small...

Exactly

Maybe we shouldn't be talking about empty seats so much as national TV appearances. Arena attendance seemed like a blip, but I remember you couldn't ever watch a game on anything but the MSG channel: TNT, ESPN & whoever the national OTA channel was at the time (ABC?) were not scheduling the Knicks when they were in the dumps. And when they would get on TV, they would stink it up:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxs...

This Christmas game is going to be very interesting: Thunder (22-5!!!) at the Garden on ABC. We all know what the pre-game storyline will be: a study in compare and contrast.

misterearl wrote:Tons of empty seats?

VCoug wrote:

That's not true, there were tons of empty seats during the Layden/Isiah dark ages.

NYK Average Attendance by Season

2011-12 652,179 33 19,763
2010-11 808,879 41 19,728
2009-10 799,550 41 19,501
2008-09 790,801 41 19,287

2006-07 771,017 41 18,805
2005-06 776,176 41 18,931
2004-05 800,144 41 19,515

2003-04 785,739 41 19,164
2002-03 779,389 41 19,011
2001-02 810,283 41 19,763
2000-01 810,283 41 19,763

1999-00 810,283 41 19,763

1998-99 494,075 25 19,763
1997-98 810,283 41 19,763
1996-97 810,283 41 19,763
1995-96 810,283 41 19,763

1994-95 810,283 41 19,763
1993-94 810,283 41 19,763
1992-93 804,840 41 19,630
1991-92 731,371 41 17,838
1990-91 654,962 41 15,975
1989-90 730,432 41 17,815
1988-89 746,851 41 18,216

VCoug - you do the math. Please overlay the Layden years. 1999-2003.

earl.. these #s are doo-doo

Try these:
http://www.forbes.com/teams/new-york-knicks/

Look at the revenue and income. Winning means something. Dolan's wallet took a hit during those lean lean years of the mid 2000s