Just how far away this team is to a truly elite team. Last year we went to Miami without Melo and beat them by 19. This years version got swamped by 30 at home. Two teams many people thought wouldbe good Brooklyn and NY are NOT good teams putting Deron Williams Brook Lopez KG Piece Joe Johnson Kierlinko etc.. together did not work they were better last year Oklhoma Indiana Miami--they have systems and continiuity we have large changeover y-y and questionable decisions
we can sign melo for 130mm and maybe we can get trade for a player next year using our lottery pick but it will end up in disaster again.This melo contract will equal a worse h2o end
Agreed we need to sever ties and rebuild. After next year we will have cap space and can try again. But for right now we should try and get some draft picks for a change. I mean a team like OKC Thunder are great because they built through the DRAFT and then added some players around the core guys
I agree man....that's why I believe we need to cut the bullshit and get back to building in house. The latest rumors have us begging Rondo to force a trade. It's embarrassing.
The Knicks have a great set of young guys already in our fold.....we need to all them all up and look to get rid of guys like Felton, Beno, Metta, Kmart immediately and look to trade away Melo, Tyson, Bargs, and JR down the line.
We need to save ourselves. We failed trying to get stars for far too long. I say we end this and see if Thjr, Murry, Tyler, Leslie, etc can become stars in house....keep digging in Europe, China, south america and the d-league a keep it moving.
"one thing"?
Just one?
It was a national embarrassment. The Nets are a nice deflection because their disaster is bigger. The only difference is they have more tradable assets and can undo thier mess. Deron for Rockets can return decent value. Pierce can bring back a young asset. Not quite what they had in mind.
JR smith is getting hard to watch.
Basically we did a better version of the Isiah Matrix.
Listen Briggs, the team is losing because they rely on jump shots all game long, we take a ton of low pct shots and it's ridiculous. At one point yesterday I counted 15 consecutive jumpers, we made 3, we hardly ever get to the ft line and we wack and hack the sht out of the opposition.
There's no way on earth even if we had Durant, MJ, Melo and LBS on this team we would win games relying on 3's and long jumpers.
Jr Smith was attacking the rim like crazy last season. It's completely assinine for a coach to continue to promote taking jumper after jumper and shooting 23% from the field, and not even say one fckn word to your team about it.
I never seen anything that stupid in my life, how do you watch film night in and night out and not point that out to your team, and if he is, then it's pretty Damn obvious the coach is being ignored.
THERE'S NO CONSISTANT EFFORT ON EITHER END OF THE FLOOR. That's not a lack of talent problem, that's a lack of playing hard for my coach problem
You guys are killing me with this rebuilding non sense..you put 10 all stars out there and they can win half there games on talent..you put 10 hard working players with avg talent and they would win 60% of there games..
Give both teams proper direction and they win majority of the time, there's plenty of proof in the NBA today to prove my point
knicks1248, you are correct sir
knicks1248 wrote:You guys are killing me with this rebuilding non sense..you put 10 all stars out there and they can win half there games on talent..you put 10 hard working players with avg talent and they would win 60% of there games..Give both teams proper direction and they win majority of the time, there's plenty of proof in the NBA today to prove my point
you are right and so is everyone else....we need change is what everyone is basically saying
Thunder are the shining light of how to run an organization.
Trade harden and still contend. We don't know how it ends if they get a chip. SA went on a big run last year and Westbook got hurt.
They might just contend for a while without a chip. But that ain't bad either.
We don't know the future but they traded Harden, let KMartin walk and they just come at you in youthier wave after wave!
SAS Kept Duncan years ago from becoming a free agent after convincing him his career would be better served with a continued process.
One constant is a plan. Thunder tanked for a few years and stuck to it. Getting Durant helped but they did not trade the pick for a "sure thing" either.
knicks1248 wrote:You guys are killing me with this rebuilding non sense..you put 10 all stars out there and they can win half there games on talent..you put 10 hard working players with avg talent and they would win 60% of there games..Give both teams proper direction and they win majority of the time, there's plenty of proof in the NBA today to prove my point
So last year we were hard working under the same coach we have now and this year no? How come we were 15-5 when MDA was fired? We still took a lot of 3's--thts the way we played. We dont play differently but we dont have the same players.Now you are looking at paying Melo 30mm per and limits our ability to build a team.
knicks1248 wrote:Listen Briggs, the team is losing because they rely on jump shots all game long, we take a ton of low pct shots and it's ridiculous. At one point yesterday I counted 15 consecutive jumpers, we made 3, we hardly ever get to the ft line and we wack and hack the sht out of the opposition. There's no way on earth even if we had Durant, MJ, Melo and LBS on this team we would win games relying on 3's and long jumpers.
The team scored slightly under 100 points. The problem was on defense.
knicks1248 wrote:You guys are killing me with this rebuilding non sense..you put 10 all stars out there and they can win half there games on talent..you put 10 hard working players with avg talent and they would win 60% of there games..Give both teams proper direction and they win majority of the time, there's plenty of proof in the NBA today to prove my point
Ten guys? Right now we have only two players who belong in an NBA level starting lineup and one of them missed most of the season.
Also OKC is better with Lamb Jackson and Adams than just Harden. Jackson would be a 20-5-5- guy with 38 minutes by himself
I don't think its necessary to group the Nets in - I still think if they had been able to get everyone healthy, they might have been good.
But, like them, you can't build your core with players that have health issues, mileage and are just plan old.
I do like that there is a rumor that they will be sellers as they move into the trade deadline - at least they might be flexible enough to own up to their failure vs. us.
I think we can and should move our older players, whether they want to sign where they go (Melo) or not. Heck, give me a second rounder to be free of Melo's deal!
And if you stayed up, Mark Jackson would have been the coach for us - he's got that team giving effort and playing smart. Curry's shot wasn't falling, and rather than jack 20+ like Smith and Melo do for us, he played smart, and made things happen within the flow of the team.
That's as much on the coach as the player.
BRIGGS wrote:Also OKC is better with Lamb Jackson and Adams than just Harden. Jackson would be a 20-5-5- guy with 38 minutes by himself
I don't think Jackson was part of the Harden trade.
Harden is better than Lamb right now but Lamb is better value salary wise for a cost conscious organization.
If we could trade Melo for the kind of package OKC traded Harden for, that would be great.
We need to revist an okc trade with Chandler.
Melo to the Clippers can be done. That team isn't going anywhere, melo with Paul and Jordan is deadly.
Multiple picks in this draft and one young player is the only way this can happen. We don't have anything left if we go all in with Melo. Play some young guys and then when stat expires build correctly.
Bonn1997 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Also OKC is better with Lamb Jackson and Adams than just Harden. Jackson would be a 20-5-5- guy with 38 minutes by himself
I don't think Jackson was part of the Harden trade.
Harden is better than Lamb right now but Lamb is better value salary wise for a cost conscious organization.
If we could trade Melo for the kind of package OKC traded Harden for, that would be great.
Correct, Jackson was on the team before the Harden trade. Harden netted them Lamb and the draft pick that got them Adams plus, I think, a Mav's draft pick that is protected to 20 for the next couple of years (could be wrong about the specifics there besides it being a Mav's pick).
Nalod wrote: The only difference is they have more tradable assets and can undo thier mess. Deron for Rockets can return decent value. Pierce can bring back a young asset.
I disagree. Melo and Chandler are both currently assets. Shump can be a better asset if the coach/GM can pump his value instead of deflating it. Although his value is not high, JR has a manageable contract figure and could have value in the right situation with a structured and disciplined team and coach (I think of Steven Jackson). Felton has value to a team in need of a solid backup at point. The Knicks can bring back multiple first rounders from the combined Melo and Tyson values......and 3-4 second rounders from JR and Felton. Shump is a wild card.....I would not give him up/trade him at a low value.
foosballnick wrote:Nalod wrote: The only difference is they have more tradable assets and can undo thier mess. Deron for Rockets can return decent value. Pierce can bring back a young asset.
I disagree. Melo and Chandler are both currently assets. Shump can be a better asset if the coach/GM can pump his value instead of deflating it. Although his value is not high, JR has a manageable contract figure and could have value in the right situation with a structured and disciplined team and coach (I think of Steven Jackson). Felton has value to a team in need of a solid backup at point. The Knicks can bring back multiple first rounders from the combined Melo and Tyson values......and 3-4 second rounders from JR and Felton. Shump is a wild card.....I would not give him up/trade him at a low value.
On a fifteen player roster, we have only 3 players who could be called assets (Melo, Chandler, and TH Jr). That's pretty bad. The Nets are in a bad situation too though.
I put the blame of this season on the Knicks lack of BB IQ. We have the talent to compete with OKC, but they play a smarter brand of basketball and create easy shots for themselves. We do not consistently attack the basket or run our offense. I put most of that on Smith, who I am frankly tired of watching. I know he has a lot of offensive talent, but the guy is too inconsistent and takes too many bad shots to be a major component of a winning team. The Knicks need to start looking into trading J.R. Smith soon.
