Knicks · Was at the game tonight and noticed (page 1)

The interactions between Shumpert and Woodson were honestly horrible. Shumpert was subbed out and literally was pacing in front of the bench shaking his head for a solid minute after Woody already told him to sit down. They got in multiple heated arguments and there was a point where Woodson pulled Shump and Iman just would not walk off the court. It was pretty much the worst I've ever seen a player show up a coach. I don't like Woodson but even I would say it was very disrespectful. Shump needs to be traded as soon as possible, he and Woodson are through.

Agree that you shouldn't disrepect the coach but I would love to know what the conversation is about. Woodson isn't really that bright, and Iman is a well spoken kid. The kid probably had a point.

knickstorrents wrote:Agree that you shouldn't disrepect the coach but I would love to know what the conversation is about. Woodson isn't really that bright, and Iman is a well spoken kid. The kid probably had a point.

Good point. Side on intelligence and heart (I am not sure who has more of that last one, but I'm going to say Shump.)
This has gotten messy and you just know that Shump lost all value he has, trade wise. No sense in doing another famous Knick trade.
The chance of him being the key part in a trade for a nice PG are done. And at one time, he would have gotten us just what we need.
Thanks again Dolan for keeping Woody around.

Dolan - The gift that keeps on giving, I mean taking.

yet Shump was in and THJ was out with 5 minutes to go with the game up for grabs. At this point it's a joke that Woody is favoring Shump for important minutes over THJ. With Shump out there, it's pretty much 4 on 5. And it's not like we have the breathing room record-wise to lose a few while trying to get Shump going. On any other team he would have played his way out of the rotation by now. Unless THJ's efficiency tanks, he should be starting and closing games.

By the way, as much as management has done a mediocre job, some on this board should eat a little crow for calling out management's perceived desire to move Shump. Evidently they knew something we didn't - Clearly the injury really hurt his development and I think it's fair to say that he's not the most mentally tough player out there. Shump needed every bit of his rookie speed and burst to be a quality player in this league. The shooting was a mirage and we should have known better, but he did have the potential, initially, to be a lock down perimeter defender and a very good open floor and transition player offensively. It looked like he had the potential to be the 3rd best player on a good team or the 4th best player on an elite team. But even if he only lost a hair on his explosiveness with the injury, I think that's made all the difference for a guy who relied so heavily on those traits.

It's time to start facing the reality that Shump's best days are well behind him. Can't trade him, can't play him - it's sad.

It's WAY too early to say that Shump can't still maximize his potential and become a better player. Environment is extremely important for young players. My bet is that on a better franchise, Shump would develop into a better player. There's nothing about this situation that is good for a developing SG. The whole JR deal, where he gets to play some of the worst BB that's ever been played and yet he remains relatively unpunished. The presence of THJ, who is showing he's got more natural SG talents. A coach who seems at a loss to really determine the best role for any of his SG's. A terrible offense and from what I can see, inconsistent coaching. All of this with trade rumors floating most of the year. TRAIN WRECK!!!

If Dolan is speaking to the players its likely at the coaches request. This owner don't do that.

They are likley rattled by the uncertainty. could very well be a Melo trade in the works and is shaking up the teams structure? Im guessing.

As for Shump vs Woodson does it matter who is to blame? What is the coach "Picking" on one player over others to vent? Sure it happens but winning is paramount and woodson has been pretty much a players coach.

Dude is 81-54 since he took over. Not bad.

Shump seems to have gotten plenty of opportunity to execute and he is not delivering. Blaming the coach for killing a players value is silly. Its not like other teams GM can't go to tape and see the lack of execution and determine what is going on.

nixluva wrote: There's nothing about this situation that is good for a developing SG. The whole JR deal, where he gets to play some of the worst BB that's ever been played and yet he remains relatively unpunished. The presence of THJ, who is showing he's got more natural SG talents. A coach who seems at a loss to really determine the best role for any of his SG's. A terrible offense and from what I can see, inconsistent coaching. All of this with trade rumors floating most of the year. TRAIN WRECK!!!

Woody understand guys with substance abuse playing pro ball, or he was told to stay with him from Isiah via James Dolan.

You know how Isiah had a fond eye& soft heart for straggler players like Jamison Brewer, Vin Baker etc....

I noticed on TV Shump digging into Woodson ... not cool by shump, but so what. team is a joke. season is lost. ... Woodson is an idiot. IT must be difficult having to take sht and direction from a joke like that.

I thought he was digging into the refs for calling the foul. Can you double check the replay? Doesn't look like he disparaged Woodson to me.

babyKnicks wrote:I thought he was digging into the refs for calling the foul. Can you double check the replay? Doesn't look like he disparaged Woodson to me.

Hope that is all that it was. His shooting slump seems no where close to ending. Pretty discouraging that it has been reported he lifts before games and then comes out and his shot is short. Not sure what Hopla is doing this year. He worked miracles with Brewer last year.

anrst wrote:I noticed on TV Shump digging into Woodson ... not cool by shump, but so what. team is a joke. season is lost. ... Woodson is an idiot. IT must be difficult having to take sht and direction from a joke like that.

on the postgame, they had sounds of the game and shump actually said "come on woodson, you got to get a tech on that" (or something like that)...basicallly telling woodson to yell at the refs for the BS calls.

djsunyc wrote:

anrst wrote:I noticed on TV Shump digging into Woodson ... not cool by shump, but so what. team is a joke. season is lost. ... Woodson is an idiot. IT must be difficult having to take sht and direction from a joke like that.

on the postgame, they had sounds of the game and shump actually said "come on woodson, you got to get a tech on that" (or something like that)...basicallly telling woodson to yell at the refs for the BS calls.

Wow. The guy is pretty much a liability on the court at this point especially on offense. Move him or give him a seat on the bench.

Move the coach and I guarantee Shump will play btr.

chewy wrote:Move the coach and I guarantee Shump will play btr.

Maybe. This was the criticism of him prior to his being drafted.

Weaknesses: Lacks stability/discipline on the court ... Inconsistent … Not efficient at all ... Horrid shot-selection ... Liable to shoot at any time, even when being closely guarded ... Likes to shoot off the dribble on a good deal of his isolation possessions, despite only connecting on 20% of these attempts ... Shoots nearly 5 three pointers per game, despite only shooting 27.8% from behind the arc ... Will often go for the flashy play instead of the easy play, which can lead to unforced turnovers ... Very poor jump shooter, and hasn't shown any improvement in this area during his three-year career with Georgia Tech ... Needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective on offense and he certainly won't have as many isolation opportunities at the next level ... Should look to take advantage of his size and strength more in the post, but has yet to add this dimension to his game ... Attitude has been questioned in the past, but to his credit he appears to have matured over the past year ...

Seems pretty accurate at this point.
http://nbadraft.net/players/iman-shumper...

You look at his weakness in this clip and he really has not work on any of it

If all this is true, I can't imagine having to babysit these non-professional pricks...

Shump was outscored I believe 25-0 by his SG counter - part DeRozan.

He was brutally stupid on defense and just as bad offensively --- please see his out of control charge as a reference point.

Coaches fault -- Woody is 100% to blame ---- yeah right.

Shumpert's downfall began when he candidly admitted to the media that last year's 2nd round defeat to the Pacers was a "failure."

This is an unforgivable sin in the eyes of Dolan. Since then, Iman, and the way the team treats him, has never been the same.

CrushAlot wrote:

chewy wrote:Move the coach and I guarantee Shump will play btr.

Maybe. This was the criticism of him prior to his being drafted.

Weaknesses: Lacks stability/discipline on the court ... Inconsistent … Not efficient at all ... Horrid shot-selection ... Liable to shoot at any time, even when being closely guarded ... Likes to shoot off the dribble on a good deal of his isolation possessions, despite only connecting on 20% of these attempts ... Shoots nearly 5 three pointers per game, despite only shooting 27.8% from behind the arc ... Will often go for the flashy play instead of the easy play, which can lead to unforced turnovers ... Very poor jump shooter, and hasn't shown any improvement in this area during his three-year career with Georgia Tech ... Needs the ball in his hands a lot to be effective on offense and he certainly won't have as many isolation opportunities at the next level ... Should look to take advantage of his size and strength more in the post, but has yet to add this dimension to his game ... Attitude has been questioned in the past, but to his credit he appears to have matured over the past year ...

Seems pretty accurate at this point.
http://nbadraft.net/players/iman-shumper...

these are the notes on carmelo anthony, right?

holfresh wrote:If all this is true, I can't imagine having to babysit these non-professional pricks...

is the same mike woodson who acquiesced to the owner's request to change agents? bad move.and this is the same mike woodson who treats some players differently from others? bad move. is this the same mike woodson who can get to the second rounds once in a while only to get annihilated? bad record.

beginning of the end for Shumpert:

http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2013/05/knicks_iman_shumpert_considers.html

“We failed. We didn’t do what we were supposed to do... [We should have made it to] at least the Eastern Conference Finals... We knew we were supposed to go farther and we didn’t... We just have to hold each other accountable. Come next year, little things like not playing hard should never come into play. Letting a game slip at home should never come into play. Getting beat on the boards when that’s an emphasis coming into a series should never happen. We have to take care of the little things and we didn’t. And it caught up to us.”