Knicks · Would you guys sign Turkoglu and drop Beno (page 2)

NYC media and crowd would turn these players out playing on the stage of MSG unless they had mature vets to help guide them .When all you do is lose , the nightlife becomes the consolation prize for these young players.

Disagree. We have an overabundance of veterans on this team and where's it gotten us? Absolutely nowhere. We'd still have a good 7 vets on the team if we really wanted to cut the players I'm talking about. That's more than enough. Plenty. Having a 'veteran presence' is overrated in my book (Beno & Melo -- where'd it get us at the end of that Washington game? Did our vet presence allow us to pull out the game against Toronto at home the other night? I mean we had that game -- WTF happened? JR's a vet -- where's that gotten us with this guy the past few seasons? Once a fool, always a fool with this clown, man...You don't see or hear of THJ acting like a fool, right?). Going overboard in this area is a detriment in fact...The NBA is a young man's sport. You need more thoroughbreds than geriatrics. Vets are important, true, but not an overabundance and certainly not the collection of guys we have. This group doesn't mesh well together -- something needs to be done. We need a shakeup, a facelift...Some of these low-cost vets should be cut in favor of youth...I'd much rather see us do a 180 now -- cut some of the fat and infuse/swap in some youth into the equation rather than sit on out hands and stay the course. We'd be much better off, short and long-term. No brainer for me. Rebuilding this mess is inevitable at this point...The rebuilding process doesn't have to start with trading Melo and Chandler -- why can't it start now with more subtle moves? You could even sit a guy like Melo down and convince him these are good moves for the here and now. You think Melo would be more excited playing with a few more young players than playing with guys like Beno Udrih and a broken down K-Mart? Look at THJ -- I don't even think this kid's all that great but when he gets it going, he's exciting and he gets the crowd going. Gets his own players going in fact. Imagine if we could add a few more youngins' like this to the equation -- wouldn't that make this infinitely more watchable the rest of the way? Exciting young players could definitely kickstart struggling vets that have lost their mojo -- that's what I'd be banking on here...When we drafted Channing Frye and David Lee -- I watched every game and couldn't wait to see what these guys did next..

How's this -- don't even think I'm watching tonight. I'd much rather watch a movie with the old lady than waste my time watching this mess, esp. w/o Melo. Either we get smoked OR we somehow manage to keep it close only to fall apart in the 4th quarter like we did against Toronto at home. It's a disgrace. Unwatchable at this point. However, if we cut meaningless parts like Beno, Martin, MWP, buy out Pablo, etc. and replace them with intriguing young pieces like Kalin Lucas, DeQuan Jones, Devin Ebanks and Richard Howell along with a commitment to play Aldrich, Murry and now Tyler -- I'd automatically go back to watching every single game, win or lose.

Finestrg wrote:Would much rather sign Devin Ebanks to a contract. Nice looking young player who can really score the ball. 6'8" 220 legit SF. Currently ranked as the #1 prospect in the D-league at the moment. How 'bout this kid as Melo's backup?

Man I tell ya -- I know I sound like a broken record and I know it's unorthodox but if I were at the helm here, I'd dump half of this roster right now and reload with as many young FAs that were willing to accept minimum deals as possible. Focus on these standout D-League players, of which there are many. That's our best play right now -- this team is stale as all get out -- try to come up with solid cheap talent that might be worth carrying over into next year and beyond.

Beno & K-Mart -- outta here. Trade or buy out Pablo & MWP too...Sit Dolan down and explain to him that buyouts for players like Pablo and MWP should be conducted for the greater good. Make him understand this. None of these guys can help us win now or are part of an inevitable rebuild. So WTF is the point in keeping any of these players?? Continue with the Melo, Chandler, Amar'e core for the time being with the idea that ALL of these guys are on the block, ready to go to the highest bidder. JR & Bargs too...If there's no current market for any of these guys, work like heck to develop one! In the meantime, play Aldrich and Murry (and if the plan isn't to play these guys at this level, send them to Erie to develop, showcase and build value). I'd prefer they start play bigger mins at the NBA level -- really find out what we have here with these 2 already...Continue developing THJ. Continue playing Shumpert (hopefully he snaps out of it and if anything builds his value back up -- this will not be accomplished by a demotion to the DL imo -- first off, this is obviously a sensitive kid that won't embrace or accept a move like that; second, if he plays poorly in the DL, it's a wrap -- that'll be a hole he'll never dig himself out of. Then we'll be left with nothing).

We just cut Chris Smith finally, thank God. Now suppose we continue cleaning house and subtracted Beno, K-Mart, Pablo and MWP -- I know they'd probably want to keep these guys around as potential low-salary components to include in trades but consider the better alternative -- jettisoning these guys and bringing in some exciting young talent for evaluation:

Melo
Chandler
Stoudemire
JR Smith
Bargnani
Felton
Shumpert
----------------------
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Jeremy Tyler
Cole Aldrich (maybe cut Aldrich if he's not showing anything in practice and consider SIGNING C Dewayne Dedmon to a 10-day contract)
Toure Murry

SIGN SF Devin Ebanks to a 10-day contract
SIGN PG Kalin Lucas to a 10-day contract
SIGN PF Richard Howell to a 10-day contract
SIGN SG/SF DeQuan Jones to a 10-day contract

Continue with the vet players above the line though all are on the block and available in the right scenario (expiring contracts, picks and/or young salary-controlled players in return ONLY). PLAY & DEVELOP players below the line. See if we could uncover a keeper or 2 here, maybe more. This is a lost year. No chemistry, no excitement, no winning, no NOTHING! Doubtful it suddenly turns around now for the better. Start the rebuilding process right now. This is honestly how I think we should approach it starting today -- something like this.

Please remember the definition of insanity; doing the same things, but expecting different results. The Knicks are so caught up in their illusion of having a team worthy of competing at a championship level that they continue with the same flawed plan. They perpetuate the sale of high priced tickets and refuse to acknowledge that a rebuild is necessary. They need to acknowledge that the team is flawed, and work themselves out of this hole that they've dug for themselves. Stop the bleeding of draft choices and ridiculous contracts, looking to right the ship, before it sinks.

Nope. I hope Beno is moved for a second rounder like Brewer was.

CrushAlot wrote:Nope. I hope Beno is moved for a second rounder like Brewer was.

Me too. And that could happen. If that can't be accomplished though, cut him and call up Kalin Lucas. Play Lucas right away, along with Murry. Trail by fire. Think about it -- what learning curve would there really be? We don't run any discernible plays! My 4-year-old could pick up what Woody wants to run in under an hour! I'd be all for throwing a few of these young guys out there and letting their natural talent and instincts take over. That would be exciting to see. And if we could come up with a surprise building block or 2 (or 3) along the way, all the better.

Finestrg wrote:Would much rather sign Devin Ebanks to a contract. Nice looking young player who can really score the ball. 6'8" 220 legit SF. Currently ranked as the #1 prospect in the D-league at the moment. How 'bout this kid as Melo's backup?

Man I tell ya -- I know I sound like a broken record and I know it's unorthodox but if I were at the helm here, I'd dump half of this roster right now and reload with as many young FAs that were willing to accept minimum deals as possible. Focus on these standout D-League players, of which there are many. That's our best play right now -- this team is stale as all get out -- try to come up with solid cheap talent that might be worth carrying over into next year and beyond.

Beno & K-Mart -- outta here. Trade or buy out Pablo & MWP too...Sit Dolan down and explain to him that buyouts for players like Pablo and MWP should be conducted for the greater good. Make him understand this. None of these guys can help us win now or are part of an inevitable rebuild. So WTF is the point in keeping any of these players?? Continue with the Melo, Chandler, Amar'e core for the time being with the idea that ALL of these guys are on the block, ready to go to the highest bidder. JR & Bargs too...If there's no current market for any of these guys, work like heck to develop one! In the meantime, play Aldrich and Murry (and if the plan isn't to play these guys at this level, send them to Erie to develop, showcase and build value). I'd prefer they start play bigger mins at the NBA level -- really find out what we have here with these 2 already...Continue developing THJ. Continue playing Shumpert (hopefully he snaps out of it and if anything builds his value back up -- this will not be accomplished by a demotion to the DL imo -- first off, this is obviously a sensitive kid that won't embrace or accept a move like that; second, if he plays poorly in the DL, it's a wrap -- that'll be a hole he'll never dig himself out of. Then we'll be left with nothing).

We just cut Chris Smith finally, thank God. Now suppose we continue cleaning house and subtracted Beno, K-Mart, Pablo and MWP -- I know they'd probably want to keep these guys around as potential low-salary components to include in trades but consider the better alternative -- jettisoning these guys and bringing in some exciting young talent for evaluation:

Melo
Chandler
Stoudemire
JR Smith
Bargnani
Felton
Shumpert
----------------------
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Jeremy Tyler
Cole Aldrich (maybe cut Aldrich if he's not showing anything in practice and consider SIGNING C Dewayne Dedmon to a 10-day contract)
Toure Murry

SIGN SF Devin Ebanks to a 10-day contract
SIGN PG Kalin Lucas to a 10-day contract
SIGN PF Richard Howell to a 10-day contract
SIGN SG/SF DeQuan Jones to a 10-day contract

Continue with the vet players above the line though all are on the block and available in the right scenario (expiring contracts, picks and/or young salary-controlled players in return ONLY). PLAY & DEVELOP players below the line. See if we could uncover a keeper or 2 here, maybe more. This is a lost year. No chemistry, no excitement, no winning, no NOTHING! Doubtful it suddenly turns around now for the better. Start the rebuilding process right now. This is honestly how I think we should approach it starting today -- something like this.

I agree about Ebanks. He is blowing up in the dleague and he is not on assignment from an nba team. I am not sure I like the plan in regards to Beno, Metta, KMart and Pablo. I really like Pablo and KMart and I think they have contributed a lot. I guess you would have to see what was offered. Also, Metta chose NY. I would like to see him play a bit after he gets over his knee procedure. I think if you are moving guys you look at Shump, JR and Felton. Felton because he has movable deal and can't stay healthy. Shump because he is quickly becoming Terrence Williams. JR because I think he is too messed up to be a part of a winning organization. Beno, Metta, and KMart are all expiring deals. If the knicks could get a prospect and/or a pick I think you have to consider it. However, Steve Mills hasn't done anything yet so I don't know where he goes with that. Grunwald would turn some of those guys into something positive.