Sure we beat Miami. But then so did the Nets and the Wizards.
But the Pacers are just an example of how far away we are from being elite. Our guys are just old, weak- mentally, physically, skills-wise.
I appreciate the patience of our owner- I just wish he had been patient 10 years ago when he started his win now mantra, traded draft picks away and always excused the bad moves as you can't rebuild in NYC.
I don't see how we can put the kind of supporting cast Melo needs and deserves.
If this organization resigns him, I don't see anything but mediocrity ahead. I hope Mr Analysis Steve Mills sees that, and convinces Dolan.
To me, it just seems to make so much more sense to blow this up now. Yes, we might make the play offs. Heck, we might win our first round match up.
And blowing it up almost assures our pick is a lotto pick to Denver.
But that deal is done. It certainly adds to our disgrace.
I also think blowing it up now vs. waiting gives us a number of advantages
1. if our organization confronts the reality now, it gives us a clear path moving forward
2. most importantly, I think teams that are positioned now to win are most likely to pay a higher price for whatever talent we can move now.
i agree with you on blowing it up, but unfortunately dolan is not listening.
Nah man we gotta get that first round seed so we can get swept by Indiana on our home court
Minus some small moves, this should be the team until next season is over when they have money to spend. It's just too bad I have no faith in the guys spending it.
We need to start over. In 2010 the Knicks went for a homerun and it didnt work out. We gpt a 54 win season out of it whihc was cool bur not mch playoff success. IMO Melo is gonna leave so we need to try and get as much value back as possible. Tyson is breaking down BUT some contending team might get desperate. Next year Stat and Bargs bad contracts come off the book. Next Year isnt gonna be pretty BUT at least we have out 1st pick next year in case things get really bad
sealy wrote:Minus some small moves, this should be the team until next season is over when they have money to spend. It's just too bad I have no faith in the guys spending it.
So will 24 other NBA teams--and if we sign CA to a max--we wont even have enough to pay 1 max player.
franco12 wrote:Sure we beat Miami. But then so did the Nets and the Wizards.But the Pacers are just an example of how far away we are from being elite. Our guys are just old, weak- mentally, physically, skills-wise.
I appreciate the patience of our owner- I just wish he had been patient 10 years ago when he started his win now mantra, traded draft picks away and always excused the bad moves as you can't rebuild in NYC.
I don't see how we can put the kind of supporting cast Melo needs and deserves.
If this organization resigns him, I don't see anything but mediocrity ahead. I hope Mr Analysis Steve Mills sees that, and convinces Dolan.
To me, it just seems to make so much more sense to blow this up now. Yes, we might make the play offs. Heck, we might win our first round match up.
And blowing it up almost assures our pick is a lotto pick to Denver.
But that deal is done. It certainly adds to our disgrace.
I also think blowing it up now vs. waiting gives us a number of advantages
1. if our organization confronts the reality now, it gives us a clear path moving forward
2. most importantly, I think teams that are positioned now to win are most likely to pay a higher price for whatever talent we can move now.
The realistic point--there is not much to sell.
Keep everything as is there is not a move that will help. Forget winning Championship forget Playoffs. I know it's a shitty division and conference. But let's not kid ourselves this team is trash there only one or two keepers and even they are iffy at best. I say keep everything as is. Any deal made right now will be a move if desperation. Besides I don't think teams will trade that much for the players we have at this moment in time.
The way it looks now I feel there are teams out there who are liking the mediocre status so they might not want trade as mediocre may lead to playoffs or a miss leads to a deep draft class. Trading partners will be few at best. Wait for off season and start making moves to better the team and coaching staff.
Teams have to have a plan, even when you blow it up.
Bargs trade was a ploy to keep Melo happy. Don't trade picks if your planning to blow it up.
If you want to blow it up, play Murry and let him develop. You do this if you think he can grow. You don't blow it up when you are paying a guy like Priggy and promised him minutes if he resigns. He did.
You don't blow it up with a roster full of Metta, Kmarts and Stats.
Sorry, you get the team healthy and make a play off run. It may not work, but blowing it up in a year you don't have a pick and all the above does not ensure any success either.
BRIGGS wrote:franco12 wrote:Sure we beat Miami. But then so did the Nets and the Wizards.But the Pacers are just an example of how far away we are from being elite. Our guys are just old, weak- mentally, physically, skills-wise.
I appreciate the patience of our owner- I just wish he had been patient 10 years ago when he started his win now mantra, traded draft picks away and always excused the bad moves as you can't rebuild in NYC.
I don't see how we can put the kind of supporting cast Melo needs and deserves.
If this organization resigns him, I don't see anything but mediocrity ahead. I hope Mr Analysis Steve Mills sees that, and convinces Dolan.
To me, it just seems to make so much more sense to blow this up now. Yes, we might make the play offs. Heck, we might win our first round match up.
And blowing it up almost assures our pick is a lotto pick to Denver.
But that deal is done. It certainly adds to our disgrace.
I also think blowing it up now vs. waiting gives us a number of advantages
1. if our organization confronts the reality now, it gives us a clear path moving forward
2. most importantly, I think teams that are positioned now to win are most likely to pay a higher price for whatever talent we can move now.
The realistic point--there is not much to sell.
Disagree entirely Briggs. If this team wanted to do a true rebuild there is plenty to sell....Melo, Tyson, Shump can get good returns. OR you can package the garbage on this team with one of the (JR, Felton, etc).
I still think that signing Melo at less than Max is the optimal way to go, but that won't happen.
Nalod wrote:
Teams have to have a plan, even when you blow it up.Bargs trade was a ploy to keep Melo happy. Don't trade picks if your planning to blow it up.
If you want to blow it up, play Murry and let him develop. You do this if you think he can grow. You don't blow it up when you are paying a guy like Priggy and promised him minutes if he resigns. He did.
You don't blow it up with a roster full of Metta, Kmarts and Stats.
Sorry, you get the team healthy and make a play off run. It may not work, but blowing it up in a year you don't have a pick and all the above does not ensure any success either.
Yup, totally agree. We got to go as far as this team will allow, and reevaluate in the summer. It sucks to be a Knicks fan yet again.
Nalod wrote:
Teams have to have a plan, even when you blow it up.Bargs trade was a ploy to keep Melo happy. Don't trade picks if your planning to blow it up.
If you want to blow it up, play Murry and let him develop. You do this if you think he can grow. You don't blow it up when you are paying a guy like Priggy and promised him minutes if he resigns. He did.
You don't blow it up with a roster full of Metta, Kmarts and Stats.
Sorry, you get the team healthy and make a play off run. It may not work, but blowing it up in a year you don't have a pick and all the above does not ensure any success either.
Than make a plan. Start where you are, and see what direction you want to go. Melo presents a dilemma. If he leaves, we are in a bind. If he stays, we are in a bind. Better to let him go and start again. We will gnash our teeth, but the dollar that becomes available will allow us to make future moves. Chandler is in decline. Some team wants him. Maybe we get draft picks for him. A first and a second anyone? Be smart in what we take back for him. If it's a bad contract, at least get a decent player with it. It's also time to get a different coach. Someone with a real defensive identity. There are several of them out there. Let's not drag this out 'til 2015. Get on it before the trade deadline, and start the makeover now.
knicks have no assets to blow up.
nobody wants jr smith or bargs or the yield will be worse than what you already have.
shump = no value.
you're highest valued player right now might by haradway jr - may get you a late 1st.
chandler may get you a late 1st also.
melo wants to be a FA so it's a rental package - which is nothing.
amare's expiring next summer is almost impossible to move - when has a $20 mil expiring deal every been dealt?
Sangfroid wrote:Nalod wrote:
Teams have to have a plan, even when you blow it up.Bargs trade was a ploy to keep Melo happy. Don't trade picks if your planning to blow it up.
If you want to blow it up, play Murry and let him develop. You do this if you think he can grow. You don't blow it up when you are paying a guy like Priggy and promised him minutes if he resigns. He did.
You don't blow it up with a roster full of Metta, Kmarts and Stats.
Sorry, you get the team healthy and make a play off run. It may not work, but blowing it up in a year you don't have a pick and all the above does not ensure any success either.
Than make a plan. Start where you are, and see what direction you want to go. Melo presents a dilemma. If he leaves, we are in a bind. If he stays, we are in a bind. Better to let him go and start again. We will gnash our teeth, but the dollar that becomes available will allow us to make future moves. Chandler is in decline. Some team wants him. Maybe we get draft picks for him. A first and a second anyone? Be smart in what we take back for him. If it's a bad contract, at least get a decent player with it. It's also time to get a different coach. Someone with a real defensive identity. There are several of them out there. Let's not drag this out 'til 2015. Get on it before the trade deadline, and start the makeover now.
I think this is the big issue - if Melo leaves during the summer, we're screwed. We might be able to get some decent value back and maintain cap flexibility moving forward.
Heck - if all we could get (and I'm not saying we would only be able to) is a second round pick for Melo and Chandler- those are two picks we don't have today!
djsunyc wrote:knicks have no assets to blow up.nobody wants jr smith or bargs or the yield will be worse than what you already have.
shump = no value.
you're highest valued player right now might by haradway jr - may get you a late 1st.
chandler may get you a late 1st also.
melo wants to be a FA so it's a rental package - which is nothing.
amare's expiring next summer is almost impossible to move - when has a $20 mil expiring deal every been dealt?
Good take!!!!
BLow it up after a bad game is child banging his head against the wall and having a "fit". The reality is tough to swallow. Enjoy the league and celebrate the rest of January with the NBA in praise of David Stern!
We need to blow it up but the question is when ? I'd like to move Melo to Chicago for Gibson and their 2014 picks but I doubt Chicago does that since they have max money to spend this free agency. I suppose the best we could do is to move Tyson Chandler in a deal that nets us Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik, who are regarded as the next big domino to fall. Maybe Tyson to POR; Robin Lopez, CJ McCullom and filler to HOU; Asik and Lin to us. Hopefully we could unload JR in the deal.
BRIGGS wrote:sealy wrote:Minus some small moves, this should be the team until next season is over when they have money to spend. It's just too bad I have no faith in the guys spending it.
So will 24 other NBA teams--and if we sign CA to a max--we wont even have enough to pay 1 max player.
Papabear Says
If Melo takes all that money that means he is not interested in winning a championship. He should take his money on the back end. I'm quite sure that Melo will take less money if it means bringing in a super star.
Papabear wrote:BRIGGS wrote:sealy wrote:Minus some small moves, this should be the team until next season is over when they have money to spend. It's just too bad I have no faith in the guys spending it.
So will 24 other NBA teams--and if we sign CA to a max--we wont even have enough to pay 1 max player.
Papabear SaysIf Melo takes all that money that means he is not interested in winning a championship. He should take his money on the back end. I'm quite sure that Melo will take less money if it means bringing in a super star.
He's becoming a free agent before we get cap space though. That's what makes this so tricky.
I trusted Grunwald. Not sure about Mills/Houston. The Chris Smith stuff didn't help to build confidence. Staying the course might be the best bet with the management group. Grunwald would get a second rounder for Beno. I don't see the logic in keeping Tyson. The only argument that makes any sense is the speculation if the Knicks trade Tyson Melo walks.
Miller and Miller from Denver for Shump/Felton works. Clip player told Herring Knicks miss Kidd's leadership. Not sure if Andre fills that void but it couldn't hurt. Quincy has looked good recently.
