Now let me preface this by saying I thought it was time to let Dantoni go but that's the difference between him and Woodson offensively. Dantoni wants his pg to be the straw that stirs the drink. Woodson just wants to sit back and trust his veterans. Worked last year with Kidd. Not so much this year
holfresh wrote:martin wrote:Remember when Felton and Amare first came to the Knicks and the term BullDog was used to refer to Felton? That guy is long gone. No effort or determination any more.
He can't do it for 40 mins a night anymore..
IMHO he hasn't done for any of his minutes in pretty much any of the games.
Know old is he 28/29? That's pretty sad
martin wrote:holfresh wrote:martin wrote:Remember when Felton and Amare first came to the Knicks and the term BullDog was used to refer to Felton? That guy is long gone. No effort or determination any more.
He can't do it for 40 mins a night anymore..
IMHO he hasn't done for any of his minutes in pretty much any of the games.
I have seen some hustle here and there, parts of the Indy game, it's tough to maintain that pace..
gunsnewing wrote:Know old is he 28/29? That's pretty sad
29. I can't figure out why his game and attitude is so poor these days. Started in Portland?
This is a guy who came up through UNC and should have all the tools and teachers to be more effective.
Weight? Injuries?
holfresh wrote:martin wrote:holfresh wrote:martin wrote:Remember when Felton and Amare first came to the Knicks and the term BullDog was used to refer to Felton? That guy is long gone. No effort or determination any more.
He can't do it for 40 mins a night anymore..
IMHO he hasn't done for any of his minutes in pretty much any of the games.
I have seen some hustle here and there, parts of the Indy game, it's tough to maintain that pace..
Not for me. I have seen zero defense this year from him. Every blue moon he has a decent offensive game but that's it.
I don't watch a lot of other teams but I can't recall a starting PG dribble so poorly, dude looses the ball a LOT for a PG. And his decision-making for a PG is not what I would expect.
martin wrote:holfresh wrote:martin wrote:holfresh wrote:martin wrote:Remember when Felton and Amare first came to the Knicks and the term BullDog was used to refer to Felton? That guy is long gone. No effort or determination any more.
He can't do it for 40 mins a night anymore..
IMHO he hasn't done for any of his minutes in pretty much any of the games.
I have seen some hustle here and there, parts of the Indy game, it's tough to maintain that pace..
Not for me. I have seen zero defense this year from him. Every blue moon he has a decent offensive game but that's it.
I don't watch a lot of other teams but I can't recall a starting PG dribble so poorly, dude looses the ball a LOT for a PG. And his decision-making for a PG is not what I would expect.
At this point he is a back up on a good team and he can be effective playing off the ball at times..But we need to rebuild..
martin wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Know old is he 28/29? That's pretty sad
29. I can't figure out why his game and attitude is so poor these days. Started in Portland?
This is a guy who came up through UNC and should have all the tools and teachers to be more effective.
Weight? Injuries?
I always felt I had a pretty good grasp on Felton which is why I wasn't excited about him coming back to the Knicks.
He was drafted high and had all the pedigree to make you think he'd be a great NBA PG like you said. He goes to Charlotte where he is coached by Larry Brown. Not a bad teacher to have if you are a PG. Felton is "ok" in Charlotte. They realize that despite his ability to run the floor(before he became addicted to cupcakes) he just lacked leadership and court vision needed to run the team. Hey my center is busting his behind on defense let me reward him on the other end. Shumpert is running around like a madman on D let me get him an open look.
So they Charlotte drafts Augustine and Felton's role as floor general is limited. His numbers look ok on a per 36mins basis.
Walsh and Dantoni see him as a nice stop gap and most important if all HIS SKILL SET can be maximized by Dantoni's SSOL system where you don't have to be heady. Just push the ball down the court and get into the offensive set in a hurry before the other team can adjust.
So he does that for 2months then starts to show signs of slowing down by month 3 along with Amare. Then he is traded.
Oh what do you know? He looks like the old Felton again in Denver and Portland without Dantoni.
Fast forward
Knicks let Lin walk and Woodson and the Knicks are excited about Felton running the team because he is more seasoned
Fast forward to 2014
Felton learned nothing from Kidd, is still eating cupcakes and getting winded, not even trying to stay in front of his man,
We suck. Felton sucks. We need a Pg who sees the floor and leads
Hope I didn't leave anything out
gunsnewing wrote:Now let me preface this by saying I thought it was time to let Dantoni go but that's the difference between him and Woodson offensively. Dantoni wants his pg to be the straw that stirs the drink. Woodson just wants to sit back and trust his veterans. Worked last year with Kidd. Not so much this year
gunsnewing - your analogy does not make sense. Any NBA coach considers his point guard as his quarterback. Veteran or yoot. It does not matter. That is the man who is trusted to run the show.
Mike Woodson is running Ray Felton because Felton, sadly, is the best we have. If you want to crown Toure Murry then crown his azz. Expect him to make mistakes like any other rookie making his first tour of the league. Pablo is injured. That's it. End of story.
We got nothing else.
That is on the General Manager.
Ill say this in Felton's defense, he has to work hard to get guys open looks...His flaw is that he isn't a good shooter so he doesn't readily draw the defense to him...He has to get in the lane...There aren't many who can play that style going into the latter part of their careers...Nash, the master at it, broke down...
misterearl wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Now let me preface this by saying I thought it was time to let Dantoni go but that's the difference between him and Woodson offensively. Dantoni wants his pg to be the straw that stirs the drink. Woodson just wants to sit back and trust his veterans. Worked last year with Kidd. Not so much this year
gunsnewing - your analogy does not make sense. Any NBA coach considers his point guard as his quarterback. Veteran or yoot. It does not matter. That is the man who is trusted to run the show.
Mike Woodson is running Ray Felton because Felton, sadly, is the best we have. If you want to crown Toure Murry then crown his azz. Expect him to make mistakes like any other rookie making his first tour of the league. Pablo is injured. That's it. End of story.
We got nothing else.
That is on the General Manager.
And unfortunately that's now Steve Mills
I knew I was forgetting something yes he is not a good shooter. From 3 or midrange. Successful teams have a pg who can do one of the 2 to keep defenses honest and open the floor.
Exactly
CrushAlot wrote:Not a good place to be.
gunsnewing - Forget shooting. NBA point guards don't need to be snipers.
Ranking starting NBA point guards - for defensive assertiveness/ floor management on offense / dictating pace with the ball in his hands / overall court demeanor - Felton grades out among the lower tenth.
That is reality.
That is the person taking responsibility for leadership
Yea and many of us pointed this out that he was closer to the bottom half of the league as a PG but because of his success under Dantoni a lot of people including the Knicks felt he was top half
Walsh himself admitted Felton was a stop gap.
Would've been nice to have Chris Paul
gunsnewing wrote:Yea and many of us pointed this out that he was closer to the bottom half of the league as a PG but because of his success under Dantoni a lot of people including the Knicks felt he was top halfWalsh himself admitted Felton was a stop gap.
Would've been nice to have Chris Paul
At this point I'd settle for a 50 year old Pearl Washington
Or 60 something year old Clyde!
gunsnewing wrote:I knew I was forgetting something yes he is not a good shooter. From 3 or midrange. Successful teams have a pg who can do one of the 2 to keep defenses honest and open the floor.
So I guess you wouldn't like Lin either...
A pg needs to contribute in one way or another. Guys like chalmers, fisher and ward are/were not great floor generals but they get in your face defensively and hit 3's. Felton doesn't do anything well except push the tempo in Dantonis system until he slows down after a few months
Lin sees the floor and makes others better
And Lin gets to the basket and finishes at will
Another thing we desperately lack
