Knicks · As Raymond Felton Goes, So Go The Knicks (page 3)

Another thing we desperately lack

This is 2014 and one thing is certain, the league changes every day.

We desperately need a lead guard with young legs.

misterearl wrote:gunsnewing - Mike D'Antoni left the building years ago.

This is 2014 and one thing is certain, the league changes every day.

We desperately need a lead guard with young legs.

That is a trio of cavernous depths in rounded (pun intended) measures that are key to assessing the aptitude of a given point guard, let alone one whom is allocated nearly 33 minutes a night. The UNC alum is also 29.3% from downtown, and averaging career-worsts 12.3 points and 5.8 assists per-36 minutes.

To recap, that is five varying, distinct measurements by which Raymond Felton can be said to be having the lowest or worst of his (to date) eleven-year NBA career. Consider this table, too:

Totals Advanced Shooting

Rk	Player	Ht	Season	Age	Tm	Lg	G	GS	MP	PER	TS%	eFG%	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%	ORtg	DRtg	OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48	FG%	2P%	3P%	FT%
1	Raymond Felton	6-1	2013-14	29	NYK	NBA	24	24	784	11.7	.471	.446	2.5	6.6	4.5	27.3	1.6	1.4	15.8	19.5	98	111	0.1	0.2	0.4	.022	.398	.454	.287	.757
2	Tony Wroten	6-5	2013-14	20	PHI	NBA	35	11	881	12.7	.479	.452	4.0	10.7	7.3	21.6	1.9	0.9	16.5	27.9	91	110	-0.8	0.5	-0.4	-.020	.416	.482	.252	.564
3	Monta Ellis	6-3	2013-14	28	DAL	NBA	41	41	1519	18.1	.538	.480	1.5	9.0	5.2	26.0	2.5	0.6	14.8	26.6	105	109	2.0	1.0	3.0	.094	.459	.486	.298	.808
4	Jerryd Bayless	6-3	2013-14	25	TOT	NBA	38	5	796	11.5	.464	.423	1.3	8.6	4.9	17.9	2.0	0.7	8.9	20.5	101	108	0.4	0.6	0.9	.056	.376	.424	.280	.797
5	Ramon Sessions	6-3	2013-14	27	CHA	NBA	41	0	893	15.7	.506	.417	2.6	8.1	5.2	24.9	1.5	0.4	13.0	24.5	102	106	0.6	0.8	1.5	.078	.402	.433	.213	.785
6	Victor Oladipo	6-5	2013-14	21	ORL	NBA	40	22	1263	12.7	.504	.451	2.0	12.9	7.5	20.2	2.4	1.8	19.7	24.2	92	105	-1.0	1.3	0.3	.011	.413	.457	.289	.750
7	Tony Allen	6-4	2013-14	32	MEM	NBA	27	27	718	16.3	.535	.504	7.0	9.9	8.4	12.1	3.9	1.4	16.0	19.6	103	103	0.5	1.0	1.5	.097	.493	.535	.185	.682
8	Kirk Hinrich	6-3	2013-14	33	CHI	NBA	33	23	1006	9.6	.463	.412	1.8	8.7	5.3	25.7	1.7	1.1	17.5	16.1	97	103	0.0	1.4	1.4	.065	.349	.384	.300	.786
9	Thabo Sefolosha	6-5	2013-14	29	OKC	NBA	36	36	921	9.7	.488	.453	3.9	12.4	8.4	7.3	2.3	1.2	13.7	12.5	100	102	0.2	1.4	1.6	.082	.393	.468	.287	.838

That illustrates players 6"5 and under, who have registered 700 minutes or more of court time over at least 20 games, with 3P% and AST% under 30.0. It is sorted according to DRtg, with the holder of the worst mark (Felton) at the top.

Felton's defensive efficiency ranking is at 111 (as per above), and of the players listed with data comparable to him, none feature in a regular, starting point guard role (with the possible exception of Wroten, who has filled in over a certain stretch in Philadelphia.) Hence, quite clearly Felton's value, production, and efficiency have evaporated.

Why is it, though, that he continues to hold an average of 32.7 minutes played when he does hit the hardwood? Pablo Prigioni -- the likely and deserving candidate to usurp the bulk of those minutes -- has been sidelined since December 17 with a hairline fracture of the big toe. Symbolic of Felton's own health queries, though, is that the pair have featured in nearly an identical number of games (despite Prigioni's month-long absence).

- Posting and Toasting

TeamBall wrote:

misterearl wrote:gunsnewing - Mike D'Antoni left the building years ago.

This is 2014 and one thing is certain, the league changes every day.

We desperately need a lead guard with young legs.

We need a lead guard who plays like one. Toney Douglas had young legs and he didn't work out so well

Yea at the bare minimum you need adequate playmaking and ball moving ability, ability to knock down open shot to keep defense in its toes and lock down defense. Fisher, ward and chalmers. Bare minimum out of your starting pg. Offense and Magic/Kidd like abilities is a bonus

holfresh wrote:How come McHale doesn't think that or why are the Rockets better with Beverly?

Chemistry. With Harden, Howard and parsons Rockets don't need a pg who gets his own shots. Beverly is a good defender is all they need at the starter. Thats why Lin is perfect off their bench. Heck they might want to keep him in that role instead of trading him.

On the Knicks he is instantly becomes our starting pg. 25yrs old and will flourish providing Woodson and Melo accept his skill set as a playmaker and not a caddy to Melo. Dynamic duo

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:How come McHale doesn't think that or why are the Rockets better with Beverly?

Chemistry. With Harden, Howard and parsons Rockets don't need a pg who gets his own shots. Beverly is a good defender is all they need at the starter. Thats why Lin is perfect off their bench. Heck they might want to keep him in that role instead of trading him.

On the Knicks he is instantly becomes our starting pg. 25yrs old and will flourish providing Woodson and Melo accept his skill set as a playmaker and not a caddy to Melo. Dynamic duo

Totally agree with you there...I actually think Lin is more of a scorer than a guy to run your offense...I wouldn't want him to run the Knicks either...He is a score first guard..The Knicks need a guard who can hit the open jumper and create for others...Lowry better fits that role...But all that said, I think if Woodson asked Lin to play the role that Felton is playing, that he too would break down...

gunsnewing wrote:

martin wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Know old is he 28/29? That's pretty sad

29. I can't figure out why his game and attitude is so poor these days. Started in Portland?

This is a guy who came up through UNC and should have all the tools and teachers to be more effective.

Weight? Injuries?

I always felt I had a pretty good grasp on Felton which is why I wasn't excited about him coming back to the Knicks.

He was drafted high and had all the pedigree to make you think he'd be a great NBA PG like you said. He goes to Charlotte where he is coached by Larry Brown. Not a bad teacher to have if you are a PG. Felton is "ok" in Charlotte. They realize that despite his ability to run the floor(before he became addicted to cupcakes) he just lacked leadership and court vision needed to run the team. Hey my center is busting his behind on defense let me reward him on the other end. Shumpert is running around like a madman on D let me get him an open look.

So they Charlotte drafts Augustine and Felton's role as floor general is limited. His numbers look ok on a per 36mins basis.

Walsh and Dantoni see him as a nice stop gap and most important if all HIS SKILL SET can be maximized by Dantoni's SSOL system where you don't have to be heady. Just push the ball down the court and get into the offensive set in a hurry before the other team can adjust.

So he does that for 2months then starts to show signs of slowing down by month 3 along with Amare. Then he is traded.

Oh what do you know? He looks like the old Felton again in Denver and Portland without Dantoni.

Fast forward

Knicks let Lin walk and Woodson and the Knicks are excited about Felton running the team because he is more seasoned

Fast forward to 2014

Felton learned nothing from Kidd, is still eating cupcakes and getting winded, not even trying to stay in front of his man,

We suck. Felton sucks. We need a Pg who sees the floor and leads

Hope I didn't leave anything out

I agree with most of what you are saying, but not the bolded part. I am pretty sure that both the Knicks and Woodson would have been much more happy with Lin on the team, contract aside.

gunsnewing wrote:True I was just emphasizing his foolish the Knicks look now as they are still over relying on Felton because they still haven't addressed the PG position

yeah

His problem is he is getting older and fatter and less stamina so a team like the Lakers who are looking to run is going elsewhere.

Felton's next gig will be as a bench player where he can sulk and eat more cupcakes until he is out of the league. It's sad but sometimes it's inevitable

Please consider the turnover between the Knicks GM and Head Coach over the period dating back to Larry Brown?

See the problem?

but

Most importantly when they lose their physical abilities and are unable to adjust and adapt to the NBA with their loss of speed/quickness, athleticism, jumping ability, strength, and especially for players with lack of skills (shooting, midrange and deep ball), passing ability, boxing out, and lack of IQ

just some players in mind

Marbury, Fred Jones, Tracy McGrady, Gereld Wallace (was highly productive just 2 years ago), Ron Artest

and

now with Tyson Chandler, Melo, Felton all approaching that age, like many players, you will not see the drop off coming
and that is why I don't think resigning Melo at anything over 15m with our lack of talent around him is NOT a smart approach to building around him because the downside of his career
We wouldn't be able to surround him with the talent needed with all the UFA's in 2015

Now if Dolan wasn't to continue to make Melo in to our super Hero and pay him big $$$, I don't care as long as it is AFTER 2016 summer, as long as we can build a core of STARs around him for the next 5years so we can build a philosophy and system similar to how Indiana as many talents that FIT, DEFEND, REBOUND, and DEFEND at a high level together

If Melo opts out this summer instead of letting his contract run out in 2015 summer and resigning a player option at a lower rate to contend (under the table deal like we have done with the Smith brothers, we are better off trading him right now for whatever we can along with Chandler or anyone on our roster and preserve salary cap

While buying/trading for as many late 1st rounders to high to mid 2nd round picks in these next few years, along with signing young talent/undrafted players on a DEEP draft (with TEAM options 2year deals) while bringing in a coaching/development staff is the best choice

Valuing young players and finding/developing our own Lance Stephenson which will take time, patience, and a good coach/development staff to develop
Finding a GM, Coach, and staff that value's all these qualities and has the patience and abilities to mentor/teach the talent is the key along with the right combination of mentors/players on the court to mentor their development by showing them how to train on and off the court

We can only sign a limited number of quality proven TALENTs with the new CBA and structure of the salary cap, so that is why developing our own core of young players is a NEED because they do not make much $$$
However, if we resign Melo this summer, we wouldn't be able to sign the talents needed to ever build around him with the holes/talent needed to contend

RonRon - Steve Mills is the General Manager, Mike Woodson is the Head Coach. Jim Dolan signs the checks.

Until the suits at Cablevision are replaced by Spike Lee and Woody Allen, the only alternative is becoming a loyal follower of the San Antonio Spurs.

Bill Bradley is not walking through that door with a buyout offer. Wish he would.

The truth is with our development/coaching staff currently, Lance Stephson would have never developed in to the player he is now with Pacer's
just like how Trevor Ariza, Jordan Hill, and I believe (Iman Shumpert would have developed much better if he was on another team like the Pacer's)
We did a pretty good job with collecting and developing players from the Isiah to Donnie Walsh players but were unable to add players that fit together with the horrible deals we had in place

Nate Robinson, Trevor Ariza, Jamal Crawford, Channing Frye, David Lee, Wilson Chandler, Gallo, ZBO, and Jordan Hill have shown to be quality players but they were never with the right group of talent COLLECTIVELY as a whole

Especially with Crawford, Nate, Ariza, and ZBo, they have proven to be productive players but simply were asked to do too much on our roster, weren't put in the right talents together to succeed, were asked to do more than they were capable of with other holes on our roster, or/and was with a TEAM didn't fit well together

Even with Jordan Hill and Channing Frye had we took the time to build their games and confidence up, they could be solid players
but
We wanted them to be the next STAT and Duncan/Dirk, which just wasn't realistic
We wanted to strike a home run with the players instead of letting them develop to what they were capable of being, if we didn't see the results we wanted in limited time, we would trade them, repeating the same mistake and this NOT FULLY DEVELOPING our own young players, opting to overpay for "proven" talents instead

I miss David Lee.

Ray Felton was halfway decent four years ago. Today he is inconsistent and inadequate. Tomorrow he will be a roster cut, coming out of training camp.

"If you are not getting better, you are falling behind." - unknown

Knicks are 7-3 when Felton manages to shoot better than 40%. Just 3-12 when he shoots 40% or worse.