Knicks · Bargs out indefinitely (page 2)

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Another great trade in Knicks history

Yep- Cavs get Deng for a first rounder, suns get Bledsoe for a second rounder, we get Bargs.

unbelievable... wow.. just wow!

I really have very little tolerance for dancing on Bargs grave after he gets hurt actually trying to help the team win. As much as he gets ragged on, he for the most part hasn't been used properly all year and still on this team he's more productive than he's given credit for. I can point to a lot more players who deserve to get bashed on before we get to Bargs.

SHOOTING STATISTICS
PLAYER	     FGM  FGA	FG%	3PM  3PA  3P%	FTM	FTA	FT%	2PM	2PA	2P%	PPS	AFG%
Carmelo	     9.2  21.0	.438	1.8  4.4  .412	5.9	7.0	0.85	7.4	16.6	.444	1.244	0.48
Bargnani     5.3  12.0	.442	0.7  2.6  .278	2.0	2.4	0.82	4.6	9.4	.487	1.112	0.47
J.R. Smith   4.4  12.1  .365    2.1  5.9  .348	1.0	1.7	0.61	2.3	6.2	.381	.984	0.45
Felton	     4.2  10.8	.390	1.0  3.6  .287	1.2	1.7	0.71	3.2	7.2	.441	.989	0.44
Iman	     2.6  6.6	.391	1.2  3.3  .360	1.0	1.3	0.78	1.4	3.3	.423	1.116	0.48
Amar'e	     3.9  7.2	.540	0.0  0.0  .000	1.8	2.8	0.65	3.9	7.2	.540	1.338	0.54
Hardaway Jr. 2.9  6.5	.451	1.3  3.3  .396	1.0	1.3	0.83	1.6	3.2	.508	1.263	0.55
Tyson	     3.0  5.4	.557	0.0  0.0  .000	2.1	3.3	0.63	3.0	5.4	.557	1.495	0.56
Beno	     2.2  5.2	.427	0.5  1.3  .410	0.7	0.8	0.83	1.7	3.9	.432	1.083	0.48

IMO it's these guys that are most responsible for this team losing. If Felton, JR and Shump are playing like they were supposed to this team would be winning games. Bargs is an up and down player, but he would be less up and down with solid PG play. He's a big but he's not a banger and so you have to involve him in the offense and keep him engaged. We can't do that if our guards are playing as poorly as they have this year.

Not to mention that his coach isn't putting him in more PnP situations which are his best plays. This is not to excuse Bargs lack of effort at times, but those times are more pronounced because the rest of the roster isn't doing much. I hope he gets well soon. He was good during the stretch Tyson was out, but now everyone wants to forget that fact. When we got good guard play from Felton and Shump it made it possible to win those games out west. That is the real source of our problems.

Our two top re-bounders are starting and we get Amare and Kenyon back in a week---does OKC cry they lost Westbrook or Chicago cry they lost DEng and Rose--no they just win games. Injuries are a part of the game. Bargs missed 100 games the last two years-- and 16 the year before that--now magically hell play 82? Get real

I think the team should improve without Bargs. Carmelo will have more space and going smaller is better in the NBA.

Bargs ranks as the third worst player in the NBA

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players?dir...

This is addition by subtraction.

WOW well I'm glad we were able to steal him from toronto

He's the least of our issues on this team. If we had a good PG Bargs and Tyson would look a lot better. Both are reliant on PnR/PnP for scoring a lot of their points. Bargs has a bit more skills, but he's best at PnP. There's no way this team can win with our guards playing this poorly. This is a league dominated by guards and we have the worst guards in the league. People are talking about Bargs as if he's the source of our problems. He's done more than any of our guards have done. In terms of the teams D, that was actually pretty good when Bargs was playing C and the guards were actually doing their job on the West coast trip. Not to mention the added D from Murry that we've been missing. That was the best defensive stretch this team had this season.

nixluva wrote:He's the least of our issues on this team. If we had a good PG Bargs and Tyson would look a lot better. Both are reliant on PnR/PnP for scoring a lot of their points. Bargs has a bit more skills, but he's best at PnP. There's no way this team can win with our guards playing this poorly. This is a league dominated by guards and we have the worst guards in the league. People are talking about Bargs as if he's the source of our problems. He's done more than any of our guards have done. In terms of the teams D, that was actually pretty good when Bargs was playing C and the guards were actually doing their job on the West coast trip. Not to mention the added D from Murry that we've been missing. That was the best defensive stretch this team had this season.

Agree. Also, feel bad for the guy. He looked great last night.

BRIGGS wrote:I think the team should improve without Bargs. Carmelo will have more space and going smaller is better in the NBA.

I think so too. This team played its best ball in a long time when Melo and Chandler were the PF/C combo.

BRIGGS wrote:Bargs ranks as the third worst player in the NBA

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players?dir...

This is addition by subtraction.

Interesting. I think that's Berri's wins produced formula. Before the season started, they had us winning 34.6 games this year.

nixluva wrote:He's the least of our issues on this team. If we had a good PG Bargs and Tyson would look a lot better. Both are reliant on PnR/PnP for scoring a lot of their points. Bargs has a bit more skills, but he's best at PnP. There's no way this team can win with our guards playing this poorly. This is a league dominated by guards and we have the worst guards in the league. People are talking about Bargs as if he's the source of our problems. He's done more than any of our guards have done. In terms of the teams D, that was actually pretty good when Bargs was playing C and the guards were actually doing their job on the West coast trip. Not to mention the added D from Murry that we've been missing. That was the best defensive stretch this team had this season.

Bargs is what he is. He is inconsistent and injury prone. Still wouldnt have give up a 1st round pick for him

misterearl wrote:The Curse of Chris Smith

We have no frontcourt players left

None

Jeremy Tyler is just a rookie.

If we're going to lose anyway, I'd rather it be watching rooks develop than watching vets who don't give a shyte. Let the noobs play and at least give us some hopeful yearnings. Otherwise, Dolan...go F yourself.

great news for Woody

another excuse

Bargs has never been a winning player

Hes played in all 42 games and were 15-27 his stats show in terms of statistical formula for a players contributions to losses hes the 3rd worst player in the league(and he commanded the most minutes on the list)

This should speed up our team--we can play 3 guards in both units start Hardaway and give him an earned bigger role and let Cole get time at back up 4-5(I think he will do a fine job rebounding the ball clogging the lane and putting a few down)

BRIGGS wrote:Bargs has never been a winning player

Hes played in all 42 games and were 15-27 his stats show in terms of statistical formula for a players contributions to losses hes the 3rd worst player in the league(and he commanded the most minutes on the list)

This should speed up our team--we can play 3 guards in both units start Hardaway and give him an earned bigger role and let Cole get time at back up 4-5(I think he will do a fine job rebounding the ball clogging the lane and putting a few down)

Great call Briggs

i would run something like:

c - Tyson
f - Carmelo
f - Shumpert
g - Hardaway JR
g - Felton

c Aldrich
g Prigs
g Smith
g Udirih

IronWillGiroud wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Bargs has never been a winning player

Hes played in all 42 games and were 15-27 his stats show in terms of statistical formula for a players contributions to losses hes the 3rd worst player in the league(and he commanded the most minutes on the list)

This should speed up our team--we can play 3 guards in both units start Hardaway and give him an earned bigger role and let Cole get time at back up 4-5(I think he will do a fine job rebounding the ball clogging the lane and putting a few down)

Great call Briggs

i would run something like:

c - Tyson
f - Carmelo
f - Shumpert
g - Hardaway JR
g - Felton

c Aldrich
g Prigs
g Smith
g Udirih

Tyler and Alrich will NEVER get a shot to play if he doesn't get a chance now, REAL minutes not garbage minutes either
IF that is the case, just cut them and get players that MIGHT be part of our future development with TEAM options for 2nd year or 10day contracts
At this point I don't think Prigs is ready to play a large role (with his injury/NBA shape) and with both JR/Felton struggling it is time to give both Tim Hardaway JR and even Tourre Murry bigger roles, at least a chance
They both played a big role for us during our mini streak, not even sure what Woodson is thinking at times, the assistant coaches cannot be that stupid either
I am sure Woodson is stubborn but I blame all the assistant coaches as well, I don't want to see ANY of the coaches on the roster, and would just BRING IN A FRESH NEW SET OF COACHES if we continue to lose till the All Star break

SOMEONE needs the blame to motivate the players to do better, we have to rebuild their confidence, and it is obvious the players don't believe in Woodson's "system" and "defensive schemes" anyway
When I saw Iman getting bi***** out by Darrel Walker for NOT switching because Melo didn't want to go through a screen that wasn't even hard to go through, it was obvious switching is part of Woodson's system carried over from Dantoni's era till now

*Switching should rarely be done* unless you have MANY good to great defenders and/or vs a team that has weakness's in their scoring lineup

We currently don't have the talent to be switching HALF of the times we do, having the players with attributes like, versatile/talented, LONG, athletic, great size like 6-7 to almost 6-11 in the from SG to PF, and it MUST be called out by the team mate that wants the switch that is BEHIND the screen usually

For C it could be anywhere from 6-11 to 7-2 + but he is the anchor of our DEFENSE, his ability to have range and recover is the key because the opponents biggest and strongest body is usually the C, and unless you have players that have the ability to help him try to NEVER switch

For PG, not saying you must be a *healthy* Westbrook but it would certainly make the switching easier because he has the size/athleticism/strength do defend both the PG and SG's and some backup SF's at times
Currently we don't have any players outside of Murry that can defend the PG position (he is probably our best defender by far at both the PG and SG)

Just because AB doesn't rebound well doesn't mean you can put a 6-2 player that rebounds just as much as him at times to make up for his size
AB played well for the most part at C and he just isn't a good fit with Chandler for the most part

nixluva wrote:I really have very little tolerance for dancing on Bargs grave after he gets hurt actually trying to help the team win. As much as he gets ragged on, he for the most part hasn't been used properly all year and still on this team he's more productive than he's given credit for. I can point to a lot more players who deserve to get bashed on before we get to Bargs.

SHOOTING STATISTICS
PLAYER	     FGM  FGA	FG%	3PM  3PA  3P%	FTM	FTA	FT%	2PM	2PA	2P%	PPS	AFG%
Carmelo	     9.2  21.0	.438	1.8  4.4  .412	5.9	7.0	0.85	7.4	16.6	.444	1.244	0.48
Bargnani     5.3  12.0	.442	0.7  2.6  .278	2.0	2.4	0.82	4.6	9.4	.487	1.112	0.47
J.R. Smith   4.4  12.1  .365    2.1  5.9  .348	1.0	1.7	0.61	2.3	6.2	.381	.984	0.45
Felton	     4.2  10.8	.390	1.0  3.6  .287	1.2	1.7	0.71	3.2	7.2	.441	.989	0.44
Iman	     2.6  6.6	.391	1.2  3.3  .360	1.0	1.3	0.78	1.4	3.3	.423	1.116	0.48
Amar'e	     3.9  7.2	.540	0.0  0.0  .000	1.8	2.8	0.65	3.9	7.2	.540	1.338	0.54
Hardaway Jr. 2.9  6.5	.451	1.3  3.3  .396	1.0	1.3	0.83	1.6	3.2	.508	1.263	0.55
Tyson	     3.0  5.4	.557	0.0  0.0  .000	2.1	3.3	0.63	3.0	5.4	.557	1.495	0.56
Beno	     2.2  5.2	.427	0.5  1.3  .410	0.7	0.8	0.83	1.7	3.9	.432	1.083	0.48

IMO it's these guys that are most responsible for this team losing. If Felton, JR and Shump are playing like they were supposed to this team would be winning games. Bargs is an up and down player, but he would be less up and down with solid PG play. He's a big but he's not a banger and so you have to involve him in the offense and keep him engaged. We can't do that if our guards are playing as poorly as they have this year.

Not to mention that his coach isn't putting him in more PnP situations which are his best plays. This is not to excuse Bargs lack of effort at times, but those times are more pronounced because the rest of the roster isn't doing much. I hope he gets well soon. He was good during the stretch Tyson was out, but now everyone wants to forget that fact. When we got good guard play from Felton and Shump it made it possible to win those games out west. That is the real source of our problems.

Agree. Bargs isn't a great player, and his lapses on D are quite visible given his size, but, seems to me he contributes alot, especially with mid range game, and, for periods of time, can actually carry the offense to give Melo a break. Wish system focused on getting him more involved mid-range. Seems lots of game he'll have great first half, and, for whatever reason, ball doesn't find him in 2nd half... tough injury.

BRIGGS wrote:I think the team should improve without Bargs. Carmelo will have more space and going smaller is better in the NBA.

this... I think this is a positive. Bargs is another ball stopper. He's a dinosaur. He looks like he never exercises and has cement in his shoes.

Give me a small fast line up. Leave Chandler out there as the only big. Stick Melo out there with 3 guards and let them operate in space. I could actually see this getting the Knicks going. I dont think Bargs is very likable.

ill give ya one thing, bars is unbearably slow.. i think fish, put it best; looks like he has cement in his shoes.

hopefully this does get the team going. id keep felton off the floor, dude has been atrocious to new levels of atrocious. let prigs run the team.

nyk4ever wrote:ill give ya one thing, bars is unbearably slow.. i think fish, put it best; looks like he has cement in his shoes.

hopefully this does get the team going. id keep felton off the floor, dude has been atrocious to new levels of atrocious. let prigs run the team.

Bargs is extremely slow. That is why I always wanted him playing the 5. He is the perfect stretch 5. Like a Jack Sikma type player without the defense but more mobile in offense. Need to pair him with a rugged 4 like KMart. Pairing him with Amare is a recipe for disaster.

Good riddance.