Knicks · Woodson in trouble (page 3)
misterearl wrote:Lost and FoundSangfroid wrote:misterearl wrote:gunsnewing wrote:EnySpree wrote:He should have been fired 2 months ago.He should have been fired after getting embarrassed by Vogel in the Indiana series last year
gunsnewing - Did Vogel and Woodson go one-on-one last year?
Or was it Tyson Chandler vs Roy Hibbert?
Who had Lance Stepehnson?
So Mister Earl, what's your assessment of Woodson now? He really looks lost to me.
Mike Woodson does not defend, dribble, deflect, dive for, shoot, rebound or pass the ball.Our point guard looks lost... and painfully predictable.
Did Doc Rivers look lost before KG and Jesus Shuttiesworth arrived?
Unfortunately we live in a world where our players AND coach can ALL be doing a poor job. It's kinda pointless making a coaching change right now because it won't really change anything but to dismiss Woodson's numerous faults because he's not a player is kinda ridiculous. Are you really implying coaching has no impact on the game, even marginally?
If that's the case are Phil Jackson's 10 odds rings all due solely to his guys diving and passing and shooting? Bulls and Lakers pre-Jackson didn't win any titles. And Doc Rivers took a horrible on paper Orlando Magic to the playoffs way back when (forget the year). Speaking of Doc the Clippers are surely better now that Del Negro is gone. Thibodeau routinely takes teams that lack any sort've luster on paper and turns out top 5 defensive juggernaut playoff teams. I mean, we could go on and on here.
Misterearl you are a good contributor to this site and I enjoy your posts but your constant defense of Woodson is kindve perplexing especially since his faults are so glaringly apparent. Let's face it he isn't a great coach and his decision do indeed impact games. The Knicks having suck-ass players and Woodson being a bad coach aren't mutually exclusive.
All that being said jettisoning Woodson now would be pointless because our team "does not defend, dribble, deflect, dive for, shoot, rebound or pass the ball." Unfortunately, Woodson being a below average coach and another coach doing a better job with this roster is also not mutually exclusive. That's why this situation sucks even harder than normal.
misterearl wrote:nyk4ever - please point out any passage where The Answer Man scribbled that Mike Woodson should be kept. Please. In terms of issues and decisions facing the franchise, the head coach is the least important.You wanna sign Melo or trade him for spare parts?
A head coach is as good as his players (and politics).
Unless it solves guarding Damian Lillard, firing Mike Woodson is not an answer to any issue that gets us closer to the Eastern Conference Finals.
It just ain't.
probably one of the few times i agree with you sir, but definitely do there. i do think woodson has lost us a few games with his "coaching" though.
misterearl wrote:MSG3 wrote:misterearl wrote:Moonangie - Cool. you got it. Shump guards Lillard. Who is guarding Wesley Matthews?
"...watch out for Matthews in the corner on this and other actions. He’s third in the league on successful corner 3s this season and is hitting them at a 47.6 percent clip. Matthews has also become a wily, backdoor threat from that spot. With the Trail Blazers moving side to side so fluidly, help decisions become infinitely more difficult because, if you’re a defender, it’s hard to know if you’re leaving the weakside corner when the weak side keeps shifting.Matthews can’t dominate every defender, but he has gotten pretty adept at sniffing out where he might have an edge. He loves to post smaller (Felton alert) defenders, and, against a defender who’s a pick magnet, Matthews will move to an open spot on the weak side. That’s the nice thing about Matthews -- he’s always been aware that caginess would have to be a strong attribute because there probably wasn't enough raw talent most nights."
Next
Murray, while not a play maker yet, should be getting minuted for his defense alone.
MSG3 - The Ansswer Man digs Murry as much as the average bear, but do you really want to entrust your offense to a player who does not respond well to defensive pressure?
Are we not New York, home of the elite point guard?
Portland spells trouble.
Uh, I really don't think that NY and home of the elite PG is a legitimate statement any longer. After Clyde, that has died. This team traded away, Clyde, Mark Jackson, rod Strickland, let Lin go, and missed multiple PG's in the draft to draft busts. The Knicks have no credibility at that position.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:misterearl wrote:MSG3 wrote:misterearl wrote:Moonangie - Cool. you got it. Shump guards Lillard. Who is guarding Wesley Matthews?
"...watch out for Matthews in the corner on this and other actions. He’s third in the league on successful corner 3s this season and is hitting them at a 47.6 percent clip. Matthews has also become a wily, backdoor threat from that spot. With the Trail Blazers moving side to side so fluidly, help decisions become infinitely more difficult because, if you’re a defender, it’s hard to know if you’re leaving the weakside corner when the weak side keeps shifting.Matthews can’t dominate every defender, but he has gotten pretty adept at sniffing out where he might have an edge. He loves to post smaller (Felton alert) defenders, and, against a defender who’s a pick magnet, Matthews will move to an open spot on the weak side. That’s the nice thing about Matthews -- he’s always been aware that caginess would have to be a strong attribute because there probably wasn't enough raw talent most nights."
Next
Murray, while not a play maker yet, should be getting minuted for his defense alone.
MSG3 - The Ansswer Man digs Murry as much as the average bear, but do you really want to entrust your offense to a player who does not respond well to defensive pressure?
Are we not New York, home of the elite point guard?
Portland spells trouble.
Uh, I really don't think that NY and home of the elite PG is a legitimate statement any longer. After Clyde, that has died. This team traded away, Clyde, Mark Jackson, rod Strickland, let Lin go, and missed multiple PG's in the draft to draft busts. The Knicks have no credibility at that position.
LOL, yes, you're totally right.
New York, home of trading away the elite point guard.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:misterearl wrote:MSG3 wrote:misterearl wrote:Moonangie - Cool. you got it. Shump guards Lillard. Who is guarding Wesley Matthews?
"...watch out for Matthews in the corner on this and other actions. He’s third in the league on successful corner 3s this season and is hitting them at a 47.6 percent clip. Matthews has also become a wily, backdoor threat from that spot. With the Trail Blazers moving side to side so fluidly, help decisions become infinitely more difficult because, if you’re a defender, it’s hard to know if you’re leaving the weakside corner when the weak side keeps shifting.Matthews can’t dominate every defender, but he has gotten pretty adept at sniffing out where he might have an edge. He loves to post smaller (Felton alert) defenders, and, against a defender who’s a pick magnet, Matthews will move to an open spot on the weak side. That’s the nice thing about Matthews -- he’s always been aware that caginess would have to be a strong attribute because there probably wasn't enough raw talent most nights."
Next
Murray, while not a play maker yet, should be getting minuted for his defense alone.
MSG3 - The Ansswer Man digs Murry as much as the average bear, but do you really want to entrust your offense to a player who does not respond well to defensive pressure?
Are we not New York, home of the elite point guard?
Portland spells trouble.
Uh, I really don't think that NY and home of the elite PG is a legitimate statement any longer. After Clyde, that has died. This team traded away, Clyde, Mark Jackson, rod Strickland, let Lin go, and missed multiple PG's in the draft to draft busts. The Knicks have no credibility at that position.
Why is that so ?
Because a dominant Pg in NYC is like the caffeine in coffee it CONTROLS everybody. Too much power to go against a star player wishes.
playa2 wrote:GoNyGoNyGo wrote:misterearl wrote:MSG3 wrote:misterearl wrote:Moonangie - Cool. you got it. Shump guards Lillard. Who is guarding Wesley Matthews?
"...watch out for Matthews in the corner on this and other actions. He’s third in the league on successful corner 3s this season and is hitting them at a 47.6 percent clip. Matthews has also become a wily, backdoor threat from that spot. With the Trail Blazers moving side to side so fluidly, help decisions become infinitely more difficult because, if you’re a defender, it’s hard to know if you’re leaving the weakside corner when the weak side keeps shifting.Matthews can’t dominate every defender, but he has gotten pretty adept at sniffing out where he might have an edge. He loves to post smaller (Felton alert) defenders, and, against a defender who’s a pick magnet, Matthews will move to an open spot on the weak side. That’s the nice thing about Matthews -- he’s always been aware that caginess would have to be a strong attribute because there probably wasn't enough raw talent most nights."
Next
Murray, while not a play maker yet, should be getting minuted for his defense alone.
MSG3 - The Ansswer Man digs Murry as much as the average bear, but do you really want to entrust your offense to a player who does not respond well to defensive pressure?
Are we not New York, home of the elite point guard?
Portland spells trouble.
Uh, I really don't think that NY and home of the elite PG is a legitimate statement any longer. After Clyde, that has died. This team traded away, Clyde, Mark Jackson, rod Strickland, let Lin go, and missed multiple PG's in the draft to draft busts. The Knicks have no credibility at that position.
Why is that so ?Because a dominant Pg in NYC is like the caffeine in coffee it CONTROLS everybody. Too much power to go against a star player wishes.
Playa, you are correct. I was convinced and still am, that Melo wanted Lin gone. He was upset that he would have to share HIS spotlight with some young undrafted guy, WTH! No way that was going to happen. His comments during the fiasco led me to believe that.
Seems to be a lot of noise that Woodson's time is done and Herb will take over again.
nixluva wrote:To me more importantly was that WOODSON didn't want Lin anymore. I think he was not a Woodson PG. Woody had no intention of playing a style that fit Lin's game. Woody wanted a more mature and mistake free PG. That's why we ended up with Kidd, Prigs and Felton. I think they could've tried to add younger and more athletic PG's, but have to live with some mistakes, but Woody didn't want that. His buddy Grunwald gave him what he wanted. It's the one aspect of the work Grunwald did, that I don't like. In a PG league you have to make sure you have PG's that can keep up with the talent level at that position. On a side note, I don't think Woodson knows how to coach PG's either. I've seen very little that suggests he knows how to develop a young PG.
Look at the names of the pg's Kidd, Prigs & Felton all three are soft spoken non-confrontational with a docile personality. That's what MELO wanted, so that's what Woody wanted. !
playa2 wrote:nixluva wrote:To me more importantly was that WOODSON didn't want Lin anymore. I think he was not a Woodson PG. Woody had no intention of playing a style that fit Lin's game. Woody wanted a more mature and mistake free PG. That's why we ended up with Kidd, Prigs and Felton. I think they could've tried to add younger and more athletic PG's, but have to live with some mistakes, but Woody didn't want that. His buddy Grunwald gave him what he wanted. It's the one aspect of the work Grunwald did, that I don't like. In a PG league you have to make sure you have PG's that can keep up with the talent level at that position. On a side note, I don't think Woodson knows how to coach PG's either. I've seen very little that suggests he knows how to develop a young PG.
Look at the names of the pg's Kidd, Prigs & Felton all three are soft spoken non-confrontational with a docile personality. That's what MELO wanted, so that's what Woody wanted. !
What? Maybe you could say that about Prigioni but not Kidd or Felton. Both those guys have actively gotten coaches during their careers. And take a look at Felton's time in Portland; docile and non-confrontational is not how anyone would describe it.
VCoug wrote:playa2 wrote:nixluva wrote:To me more importantly was that WOODSON didn't want Lin anymore. I think he was not a Woodson PG. Woody had no intention of playing a style that fit Lin's game. Woody wanted a more mature and mistake free PG. That's why we ended up with Kidd, Prigs and Felton. I think they could've tried to add younger and more athletic PG's, but have to live with some mistakes, but Woody didn't want that. His buddy Grunwald gave him what he wanted. It's the one aspect of the work Grunwald did, that I don't like. In a PG league you have to make sure you have PG's that can keep up with the talent level at that position. On a side note, I don't think Woodson knows how to coach PG's either. I've seen very little that suggests he knows how to develop a young PG.
Look at the names of the pg's Kidd, Prigs & Felton all three are soft spoken non-confrontational with a docile personality. That's what MELO wanted, so that's what Woody wanted. !What? Maybe you could say that about Prigioni but not Kidd or Felton. Both those guys have actively gotten coaches during their careers. And take a look at Felton's time in Portland; docile and non-confrontational is not how anyone would describe it.
Neither of them would challenge Melo on the court with looking him off to run an offense, that's the point.
nixluva wrote:To me more importantly was that WOODSON didn't want Lin anymore. I think he was not a Woodson PG. Woody had no intention of playing a style that fit Lin's game. Woody wanted a more mature and mistake free PG. That's why we ended up with Kidd, Prigs and Felton. I think they could've tried to add younger and more athletic PG's, but have to live with some mistakes, but Woody didn't want that. His buddy Grunwald gave him what he wanted. It's the one aspect of the work Grunwald did, that I don't like. In a PG league you have to make sure you have PG's that can keep up with the talent level at that position. On a side note, I don't think Woodson knows how to coach PG's either. I've seen very little that suggests he knows how to develop a young PG.Everyday I read about speculation regarding someone else not wanting Lin.
LAS VEGAS -- New York Knicks coach Mike Woodson said on Wednesday the team will "absolutely" match the Houston Rockets' four-year, $28.8 million offer sheet for Jeremy Lin.
Woodson said he didn't blink at all when the Rockets made their official pitch last week.
"Never once," he told a small group of reporters in Las Vegas where the Knicks are participating in summer league. "Jeremy Lin has always been a big part of what we're trying to do as we move forward with our franchise."
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/...
They all have in their contract about dealing with the media. Even coaches who have left Dolan are afraid to speak against him.
playa2 wrote:VCoug wrote:playa2 wrote:nixluva wrote:To me more importantly was that WOODSON didn't want Lin anymore. I think he was not a Woodson PG. Woody had no intention of playing a style that fit Lin's game. Woody wanted a more mature and mistake free PG. That's why we ended up with Kidd, Prigs and Felton. I think they could've tried to add younger and more athletic PG's, but have to live with some mistakes, but Woody didn't want that. His buddy Grunwald gave him what he wanted. It's the one aspect of the work Grunwald did, that I don't like. In a PG league you have to make sure you have PG's that can keep up with the talent level at that position. On a side note, I don't think Woodson knows how to coach PG's either. I've seen very little that suggests he knows how to develop a young PG.
Look at the names of the pg's Kidd, Prigs & Felton all three are soft spoken non-confrontational with a docile personality. That's what MELO wanted, so that's what Woody wanted. !What? Maybe you could say that about Prigioni but not Kidd or Felton. Both those guys have actively gotten coaches during their careers. And take a look at Felton's time in Portland; docile and non-confrontational is not how anyone would describe it.
Neither of them would challenge Melo on the court with looking him off to run an offense, that's the point.
Outside of Jeremy Lin, what PG looks off their best scorer(Melo) and best pick and roll player(Amare)..??
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:To me more importantly was that WOODSON didn't want Lin anymore. I think he was not a Woodson PG. Woody had no intention of playing a style that fit Lin's game. Woody wanted a more mature and mistake free PG. That's why we ended up with Kidd, Prigs and Felton. I think they could've tried to add younger and more athletic PG's, but have to live with some mistakes, but Woody didn't want that. His buddy Grunwald gave him what he wanted. It's the one aspect of the work Grunwald did, that I don't like. In a PG league you have to make sure you have PG's that can keep up with the talent level at that position. On a side note, I don't think Woodson knows how to coach PG's either. I've seen very little that suggests he knows how to develop a young PG.Everyday I read about speculation regarding someone else not wanting Lin.LAS VEGAS -- New York Knicks coach Mike Woodson said on Wednesday the team will "absolutely" match the Houston Rockets' four-year, $28.8 million offer sheet for Jeremy Lin.
Woodson said he didn't blink at all when the Rockets made their official pitch last week.
"Never once," he told a small group of reporters in Las Vegas where the Knicks are participating in summer league. "Jeremy Lin has always been a big part of what we're trying to do as we move forward with our franchise."
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/...
Wow ...
holfresh wrote:playa2 wrote:VCoug wrote:playa2 wrote:nixluva wrote:To me more importantly was that WOODSON didn't want Lin anymore. I think he was not a Woodson PG. Woody had no intention of playing a style that fit Lin's game. Woody wanted a more mature and mistake free PG. That's why we ended up with Kidd, Prigs and Felton. I think they could've tried to add younger and more athletic PG's, but have to live with some mistakes, but Woody didn't want that. His buddy Grunwald gave him what he wanted. It's the one aspect of the work Grunwald did, that I don't like. In a PG league you have to make sure you have PG's that can keep up with the talent level at that position. On a side note, I don't think Woodson knows how to coach PG's either. I've seen very little that suggests he knows how to develop a young PG.
Look at the names of the pg's Kidd, Prigs & Felton all three are soft spoken non-confrontational with a docile personality. That's what MELO wanted, so that's what Woody wanted. !What? Maybe you could say that about Prigioni but not Kidd or Felton. Both those guys have actively gotten coaches during their careers. And take a look at Felton's time in Portland; docile and non-confrontational is not how anyone would describe it.
Neither of them would challenge Melo on the court with looking him off to run an offense, that's the point.Outside of Jeremy Lin, what PG looks off their best scorer(Melo) and best pick and roll player(Amare)..??
Good point guards don't just mindlessly dump the ball to their best scorer. They run plays, get all of the team involved, and work to put their best scorers in the best position to succeed.
VCoug wrote:Also from what i remember Lin looked prettty good with Amare in tehir limited time together. I also remember melo and him starting to click before his injuryholfresh wrote:playa2 wrote:VCoug wrote:playa2 wrote:nixluva wrote:To me more importantly was that WOODSON didn't want Lin anymore. I think he was not a Woodson PG. Woody had no intention of playing a style that fit Lin's game. Woody wanted a more mature and mistake free PG. That's why we ended up with Kidd, Prigs and Felton. I think they could've tried to add younger and more athletic PG's, but have to live with some mistakes, but Woody didn't want that. His buddy Grunwald gave him what he wanted. It's the one aspect of the work Grunwald did, that I don't like. In a PG league you have to make sure you have PG's that can keep up with the talent level at that position. On a side note, I don't think Woodson knows how to coach PG's either. I've seen very little that suggests he knows how to develop a young PG.
Look at the names of the pg's Kidd, Prigs & Felton all three are soft spoken non-confrontational with a docile personality. That's what MELO wanted, so that's what Woody wanted. !What? Maybe you could say that about Prigioni but not Kidd or Felton. Both those guys have actively gotten coaches during their careers. And take a look at Felton's time in Portland; docile and non-confrontational is not how anyone would describe it.
Neither of them would challenge Melo on the court with looking him off to run an offense, that's the point.Outside of Jeremy Lin, what PG looks off their best scorer(Melo) and best pick and roll player(Amare)..??
Good point guards don't just mindlessly dump the ball to their best scorer. They run plays, get all of the team involved, and work to put their best scorers in the best position to succeed.
The knicks lack leadership for sure, but woodson by himself has lost at least 15 games with his game plan, lack of adjustments, and rotations.
I keep hering ppl say bringing in a new coach won't change much, but bringing in woodson to take over the half ass job MDA was doing resulted in a 18-6 run with the same exact players..PLEASE ANSWER THAT ONE!!!
woodson has cost us a ton of game this year
it is the coach. coaches matter. if we had stan van gundy, we'd be over .500. that's for certain.