I'm not going to sit here and say that Woodson is a great coach...He isn't...But he isn't the problem either...The fans and the media wants something done and Dolan is very willing to satisfy that appetite...Let's continue to kick the can down the road and not address the real problems of the Knicks...It gives Dolan a pass, gives the players a pass and even gives Woodson a pass...It makes it easy for Woodson to say he didn't have the support of management or the players...
First off, Mills is not a GM...He isn't qualified...Let's just say we trade Melo, does anyone here trust Mills to get adequate pieces in return then rebuild this roster to respectability..He has never done it on any level and has never has never held any such position..How scary is that...Dolan needs to bring a real GM pronto...If Mills or Dolan don't get their act together and show they can right this ship then Melo will walk..I don't have any confidence Dolan and Mills can pulls this off..
Our players simply sucks...Chandler is overrated and dually overpaid...13th year in the leage and he still doesn't have 1 offensive move...Not a single move even if he has the ball two feet from the basket...14 mil per year folks...Felton simply sucks..Bro, I supported you for how many years now and look at your game...Dude can only play when someone calls him fatty...He needs a chip on his shoulder...Shump is a punk...Man own up to you own poor showing...Arguing with the coach when u are simply stinking up the joint makes u look like a fool...Makes it look like he will never get it..I couldn't believe Breen asked Frazier in the first game of the year if Shump will be an all star this year..Yes, that same Shump...Fans are now offering him for Jimmer with a straight face, think about that...Amare is just stealing money at this point...Now he is saying that it's Woodson that doesn't want to play him...He is saying there are no restrictions, no doubt he will ride this into 23 mil per next year...This mother needs to opt out with Melo if he still thinks he has game...Did we really resign Prigs as a backup and bring in Beno??..Did Grunwald actually think this would be adequate after we saw what happen when Felton was hurt last year...Mister JR Smith, nothing to say here, we knew what kind of individual he was and I was an advocate of taking a chance on him..I/We got burnt..Brights spots are Melo and Tim Jr., the rest are projects at best...How does Melo come back to this???..
But we can fire Woodson, the media would love it..The MDA apologist would love it because they been saying 18-6 was a fluke and been dying for Woody to fail...We can kick the can down the road and continue to do what Dolan always does, hire and fire and keep the same game plan....
No good coach will come here unless he gets a kings ransom to put up with this garbage...Then we will run him out of town because he isn't effective..Wash, rinse, repeat...
Agree. Also, unlike when Woodson stepped in when dantoni resigned, I don't think herb gets these guys winning. I really wish chandler and shump would be moved. Both guys are a big part of the problem. Felton just isn't good enough. If management can get a good deal for him they should. But unlike the other two, Felton isn't a liability in the locker room.
The other 2 won't be liabilities with a different coach.right now they are because they are one of the smart ones who see that Woodson is incompetent
gunsnewing wrote:The other 2 won't be liabilities with a different coach.right now they are because they are one of the smart ones who see that Woodson is incompetent
So explain how Woodson incompetence has stunted Chandler and Shump growth and play...And had no effect on Melo and Tim Jr...Excuses like this is what Dolan needs...
I have no problem firing Woodson tomorrow...What's next???...We ride with the same group hoping for a different outcome???..Or do we get a competent GM in here and a good coach, present some sort of game plan on getting out of this...WE NEED A PLAN!!!
gunsnewing wrote:The other 2 won't be liabilities with a different coach.right now they are because they are one of the smart ones who see that Woodson is incompetent
Are you kidding. One of the biggest knocks on Shumpert has always been that he has a low basketball iq. Chandler is busted and is a malcontent that isn't that good. The problem is he is supposed to be the team leader with the championship pedigree, the veteran presence in the locker room. Also, if you are right do you want guys that play horrifically bad and handicap your team by being on the court to the point where it is almost impossible to overcome their limitations on your team if the limitations are actually just poor play because they want their coach fired? Every time a big man destroys chandler and has a career night or playoff series he starts complaining about teammates and the coaching staff.
We need changes at the top..It's the only way..Dolan has to hire someone he trust and leave that person alone...Tomorrow, I would install H20 as GM, wait to fire Woodson and have H20 try to bring in JVG for next year...We need to move Chandler and Shump for a PG to run with Melo...This is a start...
First decision has to be on / from Melo. Pointless to change coaches prior.
THey had a plan - risky, absurdly expensive, but, following hte foolish "you have to have two all stars", they overpaid AMare, and got desperate with Melo. Valiant effort, but, a disaster. Healthy, those two couldn't play together.
I think Woodson is the worst coach I've ever seen in New York, bar none. However, pointless to move him out now. Determine what's what with Melo, then get a new coach.
Woodson would not fix this alone but neither would the addition of Lebron
Everyone deserves blame but Woodson deserves the most blame
You (Holfresh) just like to point the finger at other players all the time
If you are not part of the solution, you don't have to be the problem, but we still need an answer
I am not looking to point the finger at one person, I am hoping for the next 5-7 years to build the best possible result
In addition, we need further development of young players, with our limited $$$ to be able to spend because of the cap room we lack
Woodson is the MOST HORRIBLE coach in the entire NBA right now to have successfully developed ANY PLAYER on his entire career as a head coach
2015 is my target, while building a philosophy that would carry on till then
Whether it is on DEF, OFF, rotations, style of play, chemistry, Woodson is horrible in making such adjustments
Rome wasn't build over a night but we still have to pick a day to build for our future
With 2015 so close with all the UFA's available, collecting as many potential players in low salaries, and building a foundation of talent and a level of HOW to play could carry on
I have 100% confidence that I can target a much better staff and players during this time despite our lack of assets/cap room till 2015
Firing him during the ALL STAR break would be ideal, while deciding what direction we want to go with 2 weeks left after the ALL STAR game for the future of the franchise
RonRon wrote:Woodson would not fix this alone but neither would the addition of Lebron
Everyone deserves blame but Woodson deserves the most blameYou (Holfresh) just like to point the finger at other players all the time
If you are not part of the solution, you don't have to be the problem, but we still need an answer
I am not looking to point the finger at one person, I am hoping for the next 5-7 years to build the best possible result
You are not part of the solution because u refuse to embrace reality..Dolan won't rebuild at MSG..Embrace it..
RonRon wrote:I have 100% confidence that I can target a much better staff and players during this time despite our lack of assets/cap room till 2015Firing him during the ALL STAR break would be ideal, while deciding what direction we want to go with 2 weeks left after the ALL STAR game for the future of the franchise
You know that means Herb or Houston. Personally I want no part of that. Hoping if, when there is a change Herb isn't a part of the next staff.
holfresh wrote:I'm not going to sit here and say that Woodson is a great coach...He isn't...But he isn't the problem either...The fans and the media wants something done and Dolan is very willing to satisfy that appetite...Let's continue to kick the can down the road and not address the real problems of the Knicks...It gives Dolan a pass, gives the players a pass and even gives Woodson a pass...It makes it easy for Woodson to say he didn't have the support of management or the players...
First off, Mills is not a GM...He isn't qualified...Let's just say we trade Melo, does anyone here trust Mills to get adequate pieces in return then rebuild this roster to respectability..He has never done it on any level and has never has never held any such position..How scary is that...Dolan needs to bring a real GM pronto...If Mills or Dolan don't get their act together and show they can right this ship then Melo will walk..I don't have any confidence Dolan and Mills can pulls this off..
Our players simply sucks...Chandler is overrated and dually overpaid...13th year in the leage and he still doesn't have 1 offensive move...Not a single move even if he has the ball two feet from the basket...14 mil per year folks...Felton simply sucks..Bro, I supported you for how many years now and look at your game...Dude can only play when someone calls him fatty...He needs a chip on his shoulder...Shump is a punk...Man own up to you own poor showing...Arguing with the coach when u are simply stinking up the joint makes u look like a fool...Makes it look like he will never get it..I couldn't believe Breen asked Frazier in the first game of the year if Shump will be an all star this year..Yes, that same Shump...Fans are now offering him for Jimmer with a straight face, think about that...Amare is just stealing money at this point...Now he is saying that it's Woodson that doesn't want to play him...He is saying there are no restrictions, no doubt he will ride this into 23 mil per next year...This mother needs to opt out with Melo if he still thinks he has game...Did we really resign Prigs as a backup and bring in Beno??..Did Grunwald actually think this would be adequate after we saw what happen when Felton was hurt last year...Mister JR Smith, nothing to say here, we knew what kind of individual he was and I was an advocate of taking a chance on him..I/We got burnt..Brights spots are Melo and Tim Jr., the rest are projects at best...How does Melo come back to this???..
But we can fire Woodson, the media would love it..The MDA apologist would love it because they been saying 18-6 was a fluke and been dying for Woody to fail...We can kick the can down the road and continue to do what Dolan always does, hire and fire and keep the same game plan....
Damn, damn, damn! I can't disagree with you. The truth was spoken.
I do not consider a year and a 1/2 a rebuild but a quick fix
Development of players and rebuilding are 2 different things
Teams should always be looking to develop talent regardless, not necessary own draft picks like the continued development of Jeremy Tyler and/or James Johnson I would target this summer
RonRon wrote:I do not consider a year and a 1/2 a rebuild but a quick fixDevelopment of players and rebuilding are 2 different things
Teams should always be looking to develop talent regardless, not necessary own draft picks like the continued development of Jeremy Tyler and/or James Johnson I would target this summer
To put it another way, Dolan just spent 1 billion dollars of his own money to redo the Garden..He isn't going to risk an empty (no money making) Garden trying to rebuild ..The Knicks charge a fortune for their seats..Corporations pay dearly for seats and suites...So continue to draw up 10 year rebuilding plans..
holfresh wrote:RonRon wrote:I do not consider a year and a 1/2 a rebuild but a quick fixDevelopment of players and rebuilding are 2 different things
Teams should always be looking to develop talent regardless, not necessary own draft picks like the continued development of Jeremy Tyler and/or James Johnson I would target this summer
To put it another way, Dolan just spent 1 billion dollars of his own money to redo the Garden..He isn't going to risk an empty (no money making) Garden trying to rebuild ..The Knicks charge a fortune for their seats..Corporations pay dearly for seats and suites...So continue to draw up 10 year rebuilding plans..
I realize that and that is why 1 1/2 years is a small time period for the next 10years of repeating this junk season is nothing compared to to risk/reward
also since when does 1 and 1/2 years = 10 years of rebuilding
Remember if you fail to improve the team by 2015, there will be much more at stake, where fans will be looking at BKLYN instead
You can sell fans of 1.5 years of improvement for the near future, you cannot sell them an another 10 years of sucking which would be the direction we would be heading in to if Dolan decides to pay a max deal for Melo this summer
Anything else I can repeatedly fail you in 
RonRon wrote:holfresh wrote:RonRon wrote:I do not consider a year and a 1/2 a rebuild but a quick fixDevelopment of players and rebuilding are 2 different things
Teams should always be looking to develop talent regardless, not necessary own draft picks like the continued development of Jeremy Tyler and/or James Johnson I would target this summer
To put it another way, Dolan just spent 1 billion dollars of his own money to redo the Garden..He isn't going to risk an empty (no money making) Garden trying to rebuild ..The Knicks charge a fortune for their seats..Corporations pay dearly for seats and suites...So continue to draw up 10 year rebuilding plans..
I realize that and that is why 1 1/2 years is a small time period for the next 10years of repeating this junk season is nothing compared to to risk/reward
also since when does 1 and 1/2 years = 10 years of rebuilding
Remember if you fail to improve the team by 2015, there will be much more at stake, where fans will be looking at BKLYN instead
You can sell fans of 1.5 years of improvement for the near future, you cannot sell them an another 10 years of sucking which would be the direction we would be heading in to if Dolan decides to pay a max deal for Melo this summer
Anything else I can repeatedly fail you in
U think the Knicks will rebuild with the Nets in Brooklyn, lose fans and the back pages for years??
holfresh wrote:RonRon wrote:holfresh wrote:RonRon wrote:I do not consider a year and a 1/2 a rebuild but a quick fixDevelopment of players and rebuilding are 2 different things
Teams should always be looking to develop talent regardless, not necessary own draft picks like the continued development of Jeremy Tyler and/or James Johnson I would target this summer
To put it another way, Dolan just spent 1 billion dollars of his own money to redo the Garden..He isn't going to risk an empty (no money making) Garden trying to rebuild ..The Knicks charge a fortune for their seats..Corporations pay dearly for seats and suites...So continue to draw up 10 year rebuilding plans..
I realize that and that is why 1 1/2 years is a small time period for the next 10years of repeating this junk season is nothing compared to to risk/reward
also since when does 1 and 1/2 years = 10 years of rebuilding
Remember if you fail to improve the team by 2015, there will be much more at stake, where fans will be looking at BKLYN instead
You can sell fans of 1.5 years of improvement for the near future, you cannot sell them an another 10 years of sucking which would be the direction we would be heading in to if Dolan decides to pay a max deal for Melo this summer
Anything else I can repeatedly fail you in
U think the Knicks will rebuild with the Nets in Brooklyn, lose fans and the back pages for years??
well to be fair either way we will probably lose anyway. It doesnt have to be a long rebuild. Next year most likely is gonna be teh same as this year. At least we have our draft pick and then all teh bad contracts come off the books. the 2015 FA class is pretty good so it might not be a long rebuild
StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:RonRon wrote:holfresh wrote:RonRon wrote:I do not consider a year and a 1/2 a rebuild but a quick fixDevelopment of players and rebuilding are 2 different things
Teams should always be looking to develop talent regardless, not necessary own draft picks like the continued development of Jeremy Tyler and/or James Johnson I would target this summer
To put it another way, Dolan just spent 1 billion dollars of his own money to redo the Garden..He isn't going to risk an empty (no money making) Garden trying to rebuild ..The Knicks charge a fortune for their seats..Corporations pay dearly for seats and suites...So continue to draw up 10 year rebuilding plans..
I realize that and that is why 1 1/2 years is a small time period for the next 10years of repeating this junk season is nothing compared to to risk/reward
also since when does 1 and 1/2 years = 10 years of rebuilding
Remember if you fail to improve the team by 2015, there will be much more at stake, where fans will be looking at BKLYN instead
You can sell fans of 1.5 years of improvement for the near future, you cannot sell them an another 10 years of sucking which would be the direction we would be heading in to if Dolan decides to pay a max deal for Melo this summer
Anything else I can repeatedly fail you in
U think the Knicks will rebuild with the Nets in Brooklyn, lose fans and the back pages for years??
well to be fair either way we will probably lose anyway. It doesnt have to be a long rebuild. Next year most likely is gonna be teh same as this year. At least we have our draft pick and then all teh bad contracts come off the books. the 2015 FA class is pretty good so it might not be a long rebuild
U think Dolan will do that or just wishful thinking?..I don't know , we act as thought we haven't seen Dolan do this about 15 year running..
holfresh wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:holfresh wrote:RonRon wrote:holfresh wrote:RonRon wrote:I do not consider a year and a 1/2 a rebuild but a quick fixDevelopment of players and rebuilding are 2 different things
Teams should always be looking to develop talent regardless, not necessary own draft picks like the continued development of Jeremy Tyler and/or James Johnson I would target this summer
To put it another way, Dolan just spent 1 billion dollars of his own money to redo the Garden..He isn't going to risk an empty (no money making) Garden trying to rebuild ..The Knicks charge a fortune for their seats..Corporations pay dearly for seats and suites...So continue to draw up 10 year rebuilding plans..
I realize that and that is why 1 1/2 years is a small time period for the next 10years of repeating this junk season is nothing compared to to risk/reward
also since when does 1 and 1/2 years = 10 years of rebuilding
Remember if you fail to improve the team by 2015, there will be much more at stake, where fans will be looking at BKLYN instead
You can sell fans of 1.5 years of improvement for the near future, you cannot sell them an another 10 years of sucking which would be the direction we would be heading in to if Dolan decides to pay a max deal for Melo this summer
Anything else I can repeatedly fail you in
U think the Knicks will rebuild with the Nets in Brooklyn, lose fans and the back pages for years??
well to be fair either way we will probably lose anyway. It doesnt have to be a long rebuild. Next year most likely is gonna be teh same as this year. At least we have our draft pick and then all teh bad contracts come off the books. the 2015 FA class is pretty good so it might not be a long rebuild
U think Dolan will do that or just wishful thinking?..I don't know , we act as thought we haven't seen Dolan do this about 15 year running..
No i agree with you 100% i was just saying what i wish he would do
