Knicks · Melo should stick it to this team and say F*** you, you guys arent doing anything for me (page 4)

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Melo era or the Donnie-MDA-Amare-Clusterfcuk..

i choose to see matters as actions and reactions, not simply discrete events in separate vacuums.

you are trying to separate the melo era from the walsh/mda/amare one. that just won't fly. if you didn't like the donnie/mda/amare clusterfuck then you have to absolutely loathe the melo deal which simply compounded the problem, ie made it exponentially worse. the fact that you don't loathe it at this juncture of unqualified and epic fail shows very narrow thinking, perhaps even dishonesty... and for what? to protect poor carmelo anthony?

No, it's the fact that you ignore the totality of the problem...And you focus on what u deem the be a singular issue..Who is living in a vacuum..U also seem to want to give certain player in this play a pass...Problem is that you are afraid of the tough questions..U run away when the heat is turned up...U also have a single tone...Melo...

no. "the totality" of the problem ignores a timeline of cause and effect, or in this case the commission of a mistake and then compounding that first mistake with another one, making matters even worse, many times worse. there was a discrete series of events, accompanied by a discrete set of decisions, decided on by a discrete set of persons. by trying to lump everything together into one big mess is a very weak sauce attempt to deflect responsibility from the culprit. and so the heat is on those who still refuse to see carmelo anthony as a core problem for the knicks. the record speaks for itself.

The fact that you identify Melo as the core to a problem thats decades old just proves the point that many on this board have already called you out on. You post in a vacuum and as Holfresh eloquently stated....You have a single tone...MELO....

its painfully easy to see. A caveman could see it. All the coaches from Chaney, Lenny, Larry, Isiah, Herb, MDA, Woody... all the stupid trades and bad players and contracts that have been brought in which translate into more losing than before... and this is the guy he chooses to focus on?

yea.. no blind agenda there

We have the worst backcourt in the league. This is proven by stats. Yet this donkee points to the only guy on the team that gives us a chance to win every night. "The record speaks for itself..." funny.

the burden of failure falls on the shoulders of he who is paid the most money and who has cost the team the most assets.

same question as before: is melo an innocent victim of circumstances here?

Maybe in your world. In the real world the burden of failure falls on those who do not perform. Maybe you havent figured that out yet from mom's basement or your college dormroom but thats how it is in the real world with grownups.

you didn't answer the question i asked: is melo the innocent victim of circumstances here?

yes/no question. instead of insults and bravado howsabout you show some backbone here and answer the question?

its stupid question. Victim of what? Open your eyes and look at the team and the organization. You need me to tell you what you see?

how is a valid question seen as stupid? you're just being evasive. it's really kind of chickenish.

let me dumb things down for you:

did he play out his contract and wait for free agency? no

did he force a trade out of denver by saying he would not extend? yes

was he afraid of losing money if he did not force a trade, not really caring where he ended up? yes

is thinking about money first and foremost above winning considered greedy and selfish? yes

does he understand that the raw millions he stood to lose were really only a small percentage of his overall earnings? no

did he get signed by dolan knowing in advance that it would take a few seasons to rebuild? yes

is "rebuilding" a different concept or process from "win-now"? yes

did he make any decisions during the whole process of going from denver to new york? yes

so you see he is not an innocent victim.

What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Melo era or the Donnie-MDA-Amare-Clusterfcuk..

i choose to see matters as actions and reactions, not simply discrete events in separate vacuums.

you are trying to separate the melo era from the walsh/mda/amare one. that just won't fly. if you didn't like the donnie/mda/amare clusterfuck then you have to absolutely loathe the melo deal which simply compounded the problem, ie made it exponentially worse. the fact that you don't loathe it at this juncture of unqualified and epic fail shows very narrow thinking, perhaps even dishonesty... and for what? to protect poor carmelo anthony?

No, it's the fact that you ignore the totality of the problem...And you focus on what u deem the be a singular issue..Who is living in a vacuum..U also seem to want to give certain player in this play a pass...Problem is that you are afraid of the tough questions..U run away when the heat is turned up...U also have a single tone...Melo...

no. "the totality" of the problem ignores a timeline of cause and effect, or in this case the commission of a mistake and then compounding that first mistake with another one, making matters even worse, many times worse. there was a discrete series of events, accompanied by a discrete set of decisions, decided on by a discrete set of persons. by trying to lump everything together into one big mess is a very weak sauce attempt to deflect responsibility from the culprit. and so the heat is on those who still refuse to see carmelo anthony as a core problem for the knicks. the record speaks for itself.

The fact that you identify Melo as the core to a problem thats decades old just proves the point that many on this board have already called you out on. You post in a vacuum and as Holfresh eloquently stated....You have a single tone...MELO....

its painfully easy to see. A caveman could see it. All the coaches from Chaney, Lenny, Larry, Isiah, Herb, MDA, Woody... all the stupid trades and bad players and contracts that have been brought in which translate into more losing than before... and this is the guy he chooses to focus on?

yea.. no blind agenda there

We have the worst backcourt in the league. This is proven by stats. Yet this donkee points to the only guy on the team that gives us a chance to win every night. "The record speaks for itself..." funny.

the burden of failure falls on the shoulders of he who is paid the most money and who has cost the team the most assets.

same question as before: is melo an innocent victim of circumstances here?

Maybe in your world. In the real world the burden of failure falls on those who do not perform. Maybe you havent figured that out yet from mom's basement or your college dormroom but thats how it is in the real world with grownups.

you didn't answer the question i asked: is melo the innocent victim of circumstances here?

yes/no question. instead of insults and bravado howsabout you show some backbone here and answer the question?

its stupid question. Victim of what? Open your eyes and look at the team and the organization. You need me to tell you what you see?

how is a valid question seen as stupid? you're just being evasive. it's really kind of chickenish.

let me dumb things down for you:

did he play out his contract and wait for free agency? no

did he force a trade out of denver by saying he would not extend? yes

was he afraid of losing money if he did not force a trade, not really caring where he ended up? yes

is thinking about money first and foremost above winning considered greedy and selfish? yes

does he understand that the raw millions he stood to lose were really only a small percentage of his overall earnings? no

did he get signed by dolan knowing in advance that it would take a few seasons to rebuild? yes

is "rebuilding" a different concept or process from "win-now"? yes

did he make any decisions during the whole process of going from denver to new york? yes

so you see he is not an innocent victim.

If I may, Melo would have went to Brooklyn if we didn't make that trade...We might have ended up with DWill, MDA and Donnie's preference...But let's play out your scenario..What would the roster look like if Melo came here via free agency??..Lets skip a step, Wilson Chandler would not be resigned if we were to sign Melo via free agency??..Roster line up please with and added note of what player would earn, like Gallo at 11 mil per...

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Melo era or the Donnie-MDA-Amare-Clusterfcuk..

i choose to see matters as actions and reactions, not simply discrete events in separate vacuums.

you are trying to separate the melo era from the walsh/mda/amare one. that just won't fly. if you didn't like the donnie/mda/amare clusterfuck then you have to absolutely loathe the melo deal which simply compounded the problem, ie made it exponentially worse. the fact that you don't loathe it at this juncture of unqualified and epic fail shows very narrow thinking, perhaps even dishonesty... and for what? to protect poor carmelo anthony?

No, it's the fact that you ignore the totality of the problem...And you focus on what u deem the be a singular issue..Who is living in a vacuum..U also seem to want to give certain player in this play a pass...Problem is that you are afraid of the tough questions..U run away when the heat is turned up...U also have a single tone...Melo...

no. "the totality" of the problem ignores a timeline of cause and effect, or in this case the commission of a mistake and then compounding that first mistake with another one, making matters even worse, many times worse. there was a discrete series of events, accompanied by a discrete set of decisions, decided on by a discrete set of persons. by trying to lump everything together into one big mess is a very weak sauce attempt to deflect responsibility from the culprit. and so the heat is on those who still refuse to see carmelo anthony as a core problem for the knicks. the record speaks for itself.

The fact that you identify Melo as the core to a problem thats decades old just proves the point that many on this board have already called you out on. You post in a vacuum and as Holfresh eloquently stated....You have a single tone...MELO....

its painfully easy to see. A caveman could see it. All the coaches from Chaney, Lenny, Larry, Isiah, Herb, MDA, Woody... all the stupid trades and bad players and contracts that have been brought in which translate into more losing than before... and this is the guy he chooses to focus on?

yea.. no blind agenda there

We have the worst backcourt in the league. This is proven by stats. Yet this donkee points to the only guy on the team that gives us a chance to win every night. "The record speaks for itself..." funny.

the burden of failure falls on the shoulders of he who is paid the most money and who has cost the team the most assets.

same question as before: is melo an innocent victim of circumstances here?

Maybe in your world. In the real world the burden of failure falls on those who do not perform. Maybe you havent figured that out yet from mom's basement or your college dormroom but thats how it is in the real world with grownups.

you didn't answer the question i asked: is melo the innocent victim of circumstances here?

yes/no question. instead of insults and bravado howsabout you show some backbone here and answer the question?

its stupid question. Victim of what? Open your eyes and look at the team and the organization. You need me to tell you what you see?

how is a valid question seen as stupid? you're just being evasive. it's really kind of chickenish.

let me dumb things down for you:

did he play out his contract and wait for free agency? no

did he force a trade out of denver by saying he would not extend? yes

was he afraid of losing money if he did not force a trade, not really caring where he ended up? yes

is thinking about money first and foremost above winning considered greedy and selfish? yes

does he understand that the raw millions he stood to lose were really only a small percentage of his overall earnings? no

did he get signed by dolan knowing in advance that it would take a few seasons to rebuild? yes

is "rebuilding" a different concept or process from "win-now"? yes

did he make any decisions during the whole process of going from denver to new york? yes

so you see he is not an innocent victim.

Part of the nba is business. The players and owners were coming to the end of a collectively bargained salary structure and the owners were telling the players they were taking things back and reigning in free agency. Melo responded to the current economic situation going on at the time. It is a nice fantasy to think that Ujiri gets nothing for Melo, and Melo gives up 35 million but that isn't how things work in the real world. Also, if you negotiate a contract with an option year that is something that you and your employer agreed on when you were hired. Not sure how using that is being a bad guy or anti=team.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Melo era or the Donnie-MDA-Amare-Clusterfcuk..

i choose to see matters as actions and reactions, not simply discrete events in separate vacuums.

you are trying to separate the melo era from the walsh/mda/amare one. that just won't fly. if you didn't like the donnie/mda/amare clusterfuck then you have to absolutely loathe the melo deal which simply compounded the problem, ie made it exponentially worse. the fact that you don't loathe it at this juncture of unqualified and epic fail shows very narrow thinking, perhaps even dishonesty... and for what? to protect poor carmelo anthony?

No, it's the fact that you ignore the totality of the problem...And you focus on what u deem the be a singular issue..Who is living in a vacuum..U also seem to want to give certain player in this play a pass...Problem is that you are afraid of the tough questions..U run away when the heat is turned up...U also have a single tone...Melo...

no. "the totality" of the problem ignores a timeline of cause and effect, or in this case the commission of a mistake and then compounding that first mistake with another one, making matters even worse, many times worse. there was a discrete series of events, accompanied by a discrete set of decisions, decided on by a discrete set of persons. by trying to lump everything together into one big mess is a very weak sauce attempt to deflect responsibility from the culprit. and so the heat is on those who still refuse to see carmelo anthony as a core problem for the knicks. the record speaks for itself.

The fact that you identify Melo as the core to a problem thats decades old just proves the point that many on this board have already called you out on. You post in a vacuum and as Holfresh eloquently stated....You have a single tone...MELO....

its painfully easy to see. A caveman could see it. All the coaches from Chaney, Lenny, Larry, Isiah, Herb, MDA, Woody... all the stupid trades and bad players and contracts that have been brought in which translate into more losing than before... and this is the guy he chooses to focus on?

yea.. no blind agenda there

We have the worst backcourt in the league. This is proven by stats. Yet this donkee points to the only guy on the team that gives us a chance to win every night. "The record speaks for itself..." funny.

the burden of failure falls on the shoulders of he who is paid the most money and who has cost the team the most assets.

same question as before: is melo an innocent victim of circumstances here?

Maybe in your world. In the real world the burden of failure falls on those who do not perform. Maybe you havent figured that out yet from mom's basement or your college dormroom but thats how it is in the real world with grownups.

you didn't answer the question i asked: is melo the innocent victim of circumstances here?

yes/no question. instead of insults and bravado howsabout you show some backbone here and answer the question?

its stupid question. Victim of what? Open your eyes and look at the team and the organization. You need me to tell you what you see?

how is a valid question seen as stupid? you're just being evasive. it's really kind of chickenish.

let me dumb things down for you:

did he play out his contract and wait for free agency? no

did he force a trade out of denver by saying he would not extend? yes

was he afraid of losing money if he did not force a trade, not really caring where he ended up? yes

is thinking about money first and foremost above winning considered greedy and selfish? yes

does he understand that the raw millions he stood to lose were really only a small percentage of his overall earnings? no

did he get signed by dolan knowing in advance that it would take a few seasons to rebuild? yes

is "rebuilding" a different concept or process from "win-now"? yes

did he make any decisions during the whole process of going from denver to new york? yes

so you see he is not an innocent victim.

Part of the nba is business. The players and owners were coming to the end of a collectively bargained salary structure and the owners were telling the players they were taking things back and reigning in free agency. Melo responded to the current economic situation going on at the time. It is a nice fantasy to think that Ujiri gets nothing for Melo, and Melo gives up 35 million but that isn't how things work in the real world. Also, if you negotiate a contract with an option year that is something that you and your employer agreed on when you were hired. Not sure how using that is being a bad guy or anti=team.

"real world" isnt really a realm this guy visits when he posts here... but OK.

But I LOVED how you broke out your "simple valid question" into lets count them now... 8 parts, then inject your own answer anyway. What a tool

Are you a tool who thinks he has some view into what matters to Melo?

Seems like a better question....

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Melo era or the Donnie-MDA-Amare-Clusterfcuk..

i choose to see matters as actions and reactions, not simply discrete events in separate vacuums.

you are trying to separate the melo era from the walsh/mda/amare one. that just won't fly. if you didn't like the donnie/mda/amare clusterfuck then you have to absolutely loathe the melo deal which simply compounded the problem, ie made it exponentially worse. the fact that you don't loathe it at this juncture of unqualified and epic fail shows very narrow thinking, perhaps even dishonesty... and for what? to protect poor carmelo anthony?

No, it's the fact that you ignore the totality of the problem...And you focus on what u deem the be a singular issue..Who is living in a vacuum..U also seem to want to give certain player in this play a pass...Problem is that you are afraid of the tough questions..U run away when the heat is turned up...U also have a single tone...Melo...

no. "the totality" of the problem ignores a timeline of cause and effect, or in this case the commission of a mistake and then compounding that first mistake with another one, making matters even worse, many times worse. there was a discrete series of events, accompanied by a discrete set of decisions, decided on by a discrete set of persons. by trying to lump everything together into one big mess is a very weak sauce attempt to deflect responsibility from the culprit. and so the heat is on those who still refuse to see carmelo anthony as a core problem for the knicks. the record speaks for itself.

The fact that you identify Melo as the core to a problem thats decades old just proves the point that many on this board have already called you out on. You post in a vacuum and as Holfresh eloquently stated....You have a single tone...MELO....

its painfully easy to see. A caveman could see it. All the coaches from Chaney, Lenny, Larry, Isiah, Herb, MDA, Woody... all the stupid trades and bad players and contracts that have been brought in which translate into more losing than before... and this is the guy he chooses to focus on?

yea.. no blind agenda there

We have the worst backcourt in the league. This is proven by stats. Yet this donkee points to the only guy on the team that gives us a chance to win every night. "The record speaks for itself..." funny.

the burden of failure falls on the shoulders of he who is paid the most money and who has cost the team the most assets.

same question as before: is melo an innocent victim of circumstances here?

Maybe in your world. In the real world the burden of failure falls on those who do not perform. Maybe you havent figured that out yet from mom's basement or your college dormroom but thats how it is in the real world with grownups.

you didn't answer the question i asked: is melo the innocent victim of circumstances here?

yes/no question. instead of insults and bravado howsabout you show some backbone here and answer the question?

its stupid question. Victim of what? Open your eyes and look at the team and the organization. You need me to tell you what you see?

how is a valid question seen as stupid? you're just being evasive. it's really kind of chickenish.

let me dumb things down for you:

did he play out his contract and wait for free agency? no

did he force a trade out of denver by saying he would not extend? yes

was he afraid of losing money if he did not force a trade, not really caring where he ended up? yes

is thinking about money first and foremost above winning considered greedy and selfish? yes

does he understand that the raw millions he stood to lose were really only a small percentage of his overall earnings? no

did he get signed by dolan knowing in advance that it would take a few seasons to rebuild? yes

is "rebuilding" a different concept or process from "win-now"? yes

did he make any decisions during the whole process of going from denver to new york? yes

so you see he is not an innocent victim.

What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

we were 28-26 and we were not a laughingstock. we were rebuilding. at least deron williams would have been filling a position of need that would fit properly with stoudemire. can't predict injuries.

is melo an innocent victim? just try to answer the question. if you don't answer in yes/no then you are just playing games.

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Melo era or the Donnie-MDA-Amare-Clusterfcuk..

i choose to see matters as actions and reactions, not simply discrete events in separate vacuums.

you are trying to separate the melo era from the walsh/mda/amare one. that just won't fly. if you didn't like the donnie/mda/amare clusterfuck then you have to absolutely loathe the melo deal which simply compounded the problem, ie made it exponentially worse. the fact that you don't loathe it at this juncture of unqualified and epic fail shows very narrow thinking, perhaps even dishonesty... and for what? to protect poor carmelo anthony?

No, it's the fact that you ignore the totality of the problem...And you focus on what u deem the be a singular issue..Who is living in a vacuum..U also seem to want to give certain player in this play a pass...Problem is that you are afraid of the tough questions..U run away when the heat is turned up...U also have a single tone...Melo...

no. "the totality" of the problem ignores a timeline of cause and effect, or in this case the commission of a mistake and then compounding that first mistake with another one, making matters even worse, many times worse. there was a discrete series of events, accompanied by a discrete set of decisions, decided on by a discrete set of persons. by trying to lump everything together into one big mess is a very weak sauce attempt to deflect responsibility from the culprit. and so the heat is on those who still refuse to see carmelo anthony as a core problem for the knicks. the record speaks for itself.

The fact that you identify Melo as the core to a problem thats decades old just proves the point that many on this board have already called you out on. You post in a vacuum and as Holfresh eloquently stated....You have a single tone...MELO....

its painfully easy to see. A caveman could see it. All the coaches from Chaney, Lenny, Larry, Isiah, Herb, MDA, Woody... all the stupid trades and bad players and contracts that have been brought in which translate into more losing than before... and this is the guy he chooses to focus on?

yea.. no blind agenda there

We have the worst backcourt in the league. This is proven by stats. Yet this donkee points to the only guy on the team that gives us a chance to win every night. "The record speaks for itself..." funny.

the burden of failure falls on the shoulders of he who is paid the most money and who has cost the team the most assets.

same question as before: is melo an innocent victim of circumstances here?

Maybe in your world. In the real world the burden of failure falls on those who do not perform. Maybe you havent figured that out yet from mom's basement or your college dormroom but thats how it is in the real world with grownups.

you didn't answer the question i asked: is melo the innocent victim of circumstances here?

yes/no question. instead of insults and bravado howsabout you show some backbone here and answer the question?

its stupid question. Victim of what? Open your eyes and look at the team and the organization. You need me to tell you what you see?

how is a valid question seen as stupid? you're just being evasive. it's really kind of chickenish.

let me dumb things down for you:

did he play out his contract and wait for free agency? no

did he force a trade out of denver by saying he would not extend? yes

was he afraid of losing money if he did not force a trade, not really caring where he ended up? yes

is thinking about money first and foremost above winning considered greedy and selfish? yes

does he understand that the raw millions he stood to lose were really only a small percentage of his overall earnings? no

did he get signed by dolan knowing in advance that it would take a few seasons to rebuild? yes

is "rebuilding" a different concept or process from "win-now"? yes

did he make any decisions during the whole process of going from denver to new york? yes

so you see he is not an innocent victim.

If I may, Melo would have went to Brooklyn if we didn't make that trade...We might have ended up with DWill, MDA and Donnie's preference...But let's play out your scenario..What would the roster look like if Melo came here via free agency??..Lets skip a step, Wilson Chandler would not be resigned if we were to sign Melo via free agency??..Roster line up please with and added note of what player would earn, like Gallo at 11 mil per...

not going to answer that question until you answer the question i asked you specifically days and days ago: is melo an innocent victim here?

answer yes or no and i will then respond to your query. if i get doubletalk, evasions, insults, or <crickets> i can only assume you are playing games.

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Melo era or the Donnie-MDA-Amare-Clusterfcuk..

i choose to see matters as actions and reactions, not simply discrete events in separate vacuums.

you are trying to separate the melo era from the walsh/mda/amare one. that just won't fly. if you didn't like the donnie/mda/amare clusterfuck then you have to absolutely loathe the melo deal which simply compounded the problem, ie made it exponentially worse. the fact that you don't loathe it at this juncture of unqualified and epic fail shows very narrow thinking, perhaps even dishonesty... and for what? to protect poor carmelo anthony?

No, it's the fact that you ignore the totality of the problem...And you focus on what u deem the be a singular issue..Who is living in a vacuum..U also seem to want to give certain player in this play a pass...Problem is that you are afraid of the tough questions..U run away when the heat is turned up...U also have a single tone...Melo...

no. "the totality" of the problem ignores a timeline of cause and effect, or in this case the commission of a mistake and then compounding that first mistake with another one, making matters even worse, many times worse. there was a discrete series of events, accompanied by a discrete set of decisions, decided on by a discrete set of persons. by trying to lump everything together into one big mess is a very weak sauce attempt to deflect responsibility from the culprit. and so the heat is on those who still refuse to see carmelo anthony as a core problem for the knicks. the record speaks for itself.

The fact that you identify Melo as the core to a problem thats decades old just proves the point that many on this board have already called you out on. You post in a vacuum and as Holfresh eloquently stated....You have a single tone...MELO....

its painfully easy to see. A caveman could see it. All the coaches from Chaney, Lenny, Larry, Isiah, Herb, MDA, Woody... all the stupid trades and bad players and contracts that have been brought in which translate into more losing than before... and this is the guy he chooses to focus on?

yea.. no blind agenda there

We have the worst backcourt in the league. This is proven by stats. Yet this donkee points to the only guy on the team that gives us a chance to win every night. "The record speaks for itself..." funny.

the burden of failure falls on the shoulders of he who is paid the most money and who has cost the team the most assets.

same question as before: is melo an innocent victim of circumstances here?

Maybe in your world. In the real world the burden of failure falls on those who do not perform. Maybe you havent figured that out yet from mom's basement or your college dormroom but thats how it is in the real world with grownups.

you didn't answer the question i asked: is melo the innocent victim of circumstances here?

yes/no question. instead of insults and bravado howsabout you show some backbone here and answer the question?

its stupid question. Victim of what? Open your eyes and look at the team and the organization. You need me to tell you what you see?

how is a valid question seen as stupid? you're just being evasive. it's really kind of chickenish.

let me dumb things down for you:

did he play out his contract and wait for free agency? no

did he force a trade out of denver by saying he would not extend? yes

was he afraid of losing money if he did not force a trade, not really caring where he ended up? yes

is thinking about money first and foremost above winning considered greedy and selfish? yes

does he understand that the raw millions he stood to lose were really only a small percentage of his overall earnings? no

did he get signed by dolan knowing in advance that it would take a few seasons to rebuild? yes

is "rebuilding" a different concept or process from "win-now"? yes

did he make any decisions during the whole process of going from denver to new york? yes

so you see he is not an innocent victim.

Part of the nba is business. The players and owners were coming to the end of a collectively bargained salary structure and the owners were telling the players they were taking things back and reigning in free agency. Melo responded to the current economic situation going on at the time. It is a nice fantasy to think that Ujiri gets nothing for Melo, and Melo gives up 35 million but that isn't how things work in the real world. Also, if you negotiate a contract with an option year that is something that you and your employer agreed on when you were hired. Not sure how using that is being a bad guy or anti=team.

"real world" isnt really a realm this guy visits when he posts here... but OK.

But I LOVED how you broke out your "simple valid question" into lets count them now... 8 parts, then inject your own answer anyway. What a tool

Are you a tool who thinks he has some view into what matters to Melo?

Seems like a better question....

i answered the simple questions that you pointedly avoid answering.

i think we both know why-- you can't handle the facts, the reality, the truth.

Free Melo!

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Melo era or the Donnie-MDA-Amare-Clusterfcuk..

i choose to see matters as actions and reactions, not simply discrete events in separate vacuums.

you are trying to separate the melo era from the walsh/mda/amare one. that just won't fly. if you didn't like the donnie/mda/amare clusterfuck then you have to absolutely loathe the melo deal which simply compounded the problem, ie made it exponentially worse. the fact that you don't loathe it at this juncture of unqualified and epic fail shows very narrow thinking, perhaps even dishonesty... and for what? to protect poor carmelo anthony?

No, it's the fact that you ignore the totality of the problem...And you focus on what u deem the be a singular issue..Who is living in a vacuum..U also seem to want to give certain player in this play a pass...Problem is that you are afraid of the tough questions..U run away when the heat is turned up...U also have a single tone...Melo...

no. "the totality" of the problem ignores a timeline of cause and effect, or in this case the commission of a mistake and then compounding that first mistake with another one, making matters even worse, many times worse. there was a discrete series of events, accompanied by a discrete set of decisions, decided on by a discrete set of persons. by trying to lump everything together into one big mess is a very weak sauce attempt to deflect responsibility from the culprit. and so the heat is on those who still refuse to see carmelo anthony as a core problem for the knicks. the record speaks for itself.

The fact that you identify Melo as the core to a problem thats decades old just proves the point that many on this board have already called you out on. You post in a vacuum and as Holfresh eloquently stated....You have a single tone...MELO....

its painfully easy to see. A caveman could see it. All the coaches from Chaney, Lenny, Larry, Isiah, Herb, MDA, Woody... all the stupid trades and bad players and contracts that have been brought in which translate into more losing than before... and this is the guy he chooses to focus on?

yea.. no blind agenda there

We have the worst backcourt in the league. This is proven by stats. Yet this donkee points to the only guy on the team that gives us a chance to win every night. "The record speaks for itself..." funny.

the burden of failure falls on the shoulders of he who is paid the most money and who has cost the team the most assets.

same question as before: is melo an innocent victim of circumstances here?

Maybe in your world. In the real world the burden of failure falls on those who do not perform. Maybe you havent figured that out yet from mom's basement or your college dormroom but thats how it is in the real world with grownups.

you didn't answer the question i asked: is melo the innocent victim of circumstances here?

yes/no question. instead of insults and bravado howsabout you show some backbone here and answer the question?

its stupid question. Victim of what? Open your eyes and look at the team and the organization. You need me to tell you what you see?

how is a valid question seen as stupid? you're just being evasive. it's really kind of chickenish.

let me dumb things down for you:

did he play out his contract and wait for free agency? no

did he force a trade out of denver by saying he would not extend? yes

was he afraid of losing money if he did not force a trade, not really caring where he ended up? yes

is thinking about money first and foremost above winning considered greedy and selfish? yes

does he understand that the raw millions he stood to lose were really only a small percentage of his overall earnings? no

did he get signed by dolan knowing in advance that it would take a few seasons to rebuild? yes

is "rebuilding" a different concept or process from "win-now"? yes

did he make any decisions during the whole process of going from denver to new york? yes

so you see he is not an innocent victim.

Part of the nba is business. The players and owners were coming to the end of a collectively bargained salary structure and the owners were telling the players they were taking things back and reigning in free agency. Melo responded to the current economic situation going on at the time. It is a nice fantasy to think that Ujiri gets nothing for Melo, and Melo gives up 35 million but that isn't how things work in the real world. Also, if you negotiate a contract with an option year that is something that you and your employer agreed on when you were hired. Not sure how using that is being a bad guy or anti=team.

"real world" isnt really a realm this guy visits when he posts here... but OK.

But I LOVED how you broke out your "simple valid question" into lets count them now... 8 parts, then inject your own answer anyway. What a tool

Are you a tool who thinks he has some view into what matters to Melo?

Seems like a better question....

i answered the simple questions that you pointedly avoid answering.

i think we both know why-- you can't handle the facts, the reality, the truth.

Knicks are 12 ganes under .500. Of course Melo has to take some blame. No one ever said he was completely exempt. Now, I would like for you to respond to Crush's post....

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Melo era or the Donnie-MDA-Amare-Clusterfcuk..

i choose to see matters as actions and reactions, not simply discrete events in separate vacuums.

you are trying to separate the melo era from the walsh/mda/amare one. that just won't fly. if you didn't like the donnie/mda/amare clusterfuck then you have to absolutely loathe the melo deal which simply compounded the problem, ie made it exponentially worse. the fact that you don't loathe it at this juncture of unqualified and epic fail shows very narrow thinking, perhaps even dishonesty... and for what? to protect poor carmelo anthony?

No, it's the fact that you ignore the totality of the problem...And you focus on what u deem the be a singular issue..Who is living in a vacuum..U also seem to want to give certain player in this play a pass...Problem is that you are afraid of the tough questions..U run away when the heat is turned up...U also have a single tone...Melo...

no. "the totality" of the problem ignores a timeline of cause and effect, or in this case the commission of a mistake and then compounding that first mistake with another one, making matters even worse, many times worse. there was a discrete series of events, accompanied by a discrete set of decisions, decided on by a discrete set of persons. by trying to lump everything together into one big mess is a very weak sauce attempt to deflect responsibility from the culprit. and so the heat is on those who still refuse to see carmelo anthony as a core problem for the knicks. the record speaks for itself.

The fact that you identify Melo as the core to a problem thats decades old just proves the point that many on this board have already called you out on. You post in a vacuum and as Holfresh eloquently stated....You have a single tone...MELO....

its painfully easy to see. A caveman could see it. All the coaches from Chaney, Lenny, Larry, Isiah, Herb, MDA, Woody... all the stupid trades and bad players and contracts that have been brought in which translate into more losing than before... and this is the guy he chooses to focus on?

yea.. no blind agenda there

We have the worst backcourt in the league. This is proven by stats. Yet this donkee points to the only guy on the team that gives us a chance to win every night. "The record speaks for itself..." funny.

the burden of failure falls on the shoulders of he who is paid the most money and who has cost the team the most assets.

same question as before: is melo an innocent victim of circumstances here?

Maybe in your world. In the real world the burden of failure falls on those who do not perform. Maybe you havent figured that out yet from mom's basement or your college dormroom but thats how it is in the real world with grownups.

you didn't answer the question i asked: is melo the innocent victim of circumstances here?

yes/no question. instead of insults and bravado howsabout you show some backbone here and answer the question?

its stupid question. Victim of what? Open your eyes and look at the team and the organization. You need me to tell you what you see?

how is a valid question seen as stupid? you're just being evasive. it's really kind of chickenish.

let me dumb things down for you:

did he play out his contract and wait for free agency? no

did he force a trade out of denver by saying he would not extend? yes

was he afraid of losing money if he did not force a trade, not really caring where he ended up? yes

is thinking about money first and foremost above winning considered greedy and selfish? yes

does he understand that the raw millions he stood to lose were really only a small percentage of his overall earnings? no

did he get signed by dolan knowing in advance that it would take a few seasons to rebuild? yes

is "rebuilding" a different concept or process from "win-now"? yes

did he make any decisions during the whole process of going from denver to new york? yes

so you see he is not an innocent victim.

Part of the nba is business. The players and owners were coming to the end of a collectively bargained salary structure and the owners were telling the players they were taking things back and reigning in free agency. Melo responded to the current economic situation going on at the time. It is a nice fantasy to think that Ujiri gets nothing for Melo, and Melo gives up 35 million but that isn't how things work in the real world. Also, if you negotiate a contract with an option year that is something that you and your employer agreed on when you were hired. Not sure how using that is being a bad guy or anti=team.

"real world" isnt really a realm this guy visits when he posts here... but OK.

But I LOVED how you broke out your "simple valid question" into lets count them now... 8 parts, then inject your own answer anyway. What a tool

Are you a tool who thinks he has some view into what matters to Melo?

Seems like a better question....

i answered the simple questions that you pointedly avoid answering.

i think we both know why-- you can't handle the facts, the reality, the truth.

Knicks are 12 ganes under .500. Of course Melo has to take some blame. No one ever said he was completely exempt. Now, I would like for you to respond to Crush's post....

sorry but you didn't answer the question: is melo an innocent victim?

as for "no one ever said he was completely exempt" that is a crock of shyte. plenty here refuse to answer the question that you also refuse to answer.

say it: say "melo is no innocent victim" and we can continue.

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

we were 28-26 and we were not a laughingstock. we were rebuilding. at least deron williams would have been filling a position of need that would fit properly with stoudemire. can't predict injuries.

is melo an innocent victim? just try to answer the question. if you don't answer in yes/no then you are just playing games.

Lol wtf is with the tone? You never asked me that question once. No he's not. I've stated several times that I mainly fault him for not asserting that the Knicks were the only team he wanted to go to and the only team he would sign the extension with. When he kept entertaining the idea of signing with the Nets, it allowed both Denver and Jersey to drive up the price. You happy?

As for the 28-26 team, I was talking in all the accumulated years before Melo got here. We were most certainly a laughing stock. Donnie was supposed to come here and erase that and he ended up making some atrocious trades (some that I believe Crush has pointed out before) and signing Amare and D'antoni. So we were a joke before this, weren't too big of a joke last season, and are now headed towards being a joke once again. You cannot blame all of that on Melo.

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

we were 28-26 and we were not a laughingstock. we were rebuilding. at least deron williams would have been filling a position of need that would fit properly with stoudemire. can't predict injuries.

is melo an innocent victim? just try to answer the question. if you don't answer in yes/no then you are just playing games.

Lol wtf is with the tone? You never asked me that question once. No he's not. I've stated several times that I mainly fault him for not asserting that the Knicks were the only team he wanted to go to and the only team he would sign the extension with. When he kept entertaining the idea of signing with the Nets, it allowed both Denver and Jersey to drive up the price. You happy?

As for the 28-26 team, I was talking in all the accumulated years before Melo got here. We were most certainly a laughing stock. Donnie was supposed to come here and erase that and he ended up making some atrocious trades (some that I believe Crush has pointed out before) and signing Amare and D'antoni. So we were a joke before this, weren't too big of a joke last season, and are now headed towards being a joke once again. You cannot blame all of that on Melo.

cool. so melo helped create the mess here. glad you see it that way. i thought it would end up a mess the minute the trade happened. pissed me off.

donnie was "supposed to" clean up someone else's mess, and he did. he needed two years to do it and most were surprised that it took so little time, the mess was so horrific. in so doing he also tried to create a healthy culture that could germinate and bear fruit.

lbj collusion and plan b? okay so amare comes in and walsh, not having a decent pg to acquire, decided to give felton a two year audition and very little money until an upgrade was available. i liked that plan. i liked the young players we had. i liked that we were 28-26 and a sixth seed. there was something germinal about that team. germinal means fragile, delicate, but with some room for development. and no rebuild is going to be perfect and without blemishes. but the plan was to rebuild and that would not take the first two years of walsh's tenure but rather the next 3-5 years.

the melo trade destroyed all that. he didn't care about what sort of knick team he came to and now the chickens are coming home to roost. fuck him!

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

we were 28-26 and we were not a laughingstock. we were rebuilding. at least deron williams would have been filling a position of need that would fit properly with stoudemire. can't predict injuries.

is melo an innocent victim? just try to answer the question. if you don't answer in yes/no then you are just playing games.

Lol wtf is with the tone? You never asked me that question once. No he's not. I've stated several times that I mainly fault him for not asserting that the Knicks were the only team he wanted to go to and the only team he would sign the extension with. When he kept entertaining the idea of signing with the Nets, it allowed both Denver and Jersey to drive up the price. You happy?

As for the 28-26 team, I was talking in all the accumulated years before Melo got here. We were most certainly a laughing stock. Donnie was supposed to come here and erase that and he ended up making some atrocious trades (some that I believe Crush has pointed out before) and signing Amare and D'antoni. So we were a joke before this, weren't too big of a joke last season, and are now headed towards being a joke once again. You cannot blame all of that on Melo.

cool. so melo helped create the mess here. glad you see it that way. i thought it would end up a mess the minute the trade happened. pissed me off.

donnie was "supposed to" clean up someone else's mess, and he did. he needed two years to do it and most were surprised that it took so little time, the mess was so horrific. in so doing he also tried to create a healthy culture that could germinate and bear fruit.

lbj collusion and plan b? okay so amare comes in and walsh, not having a decent pg to acquire, decided to give felton a two year audition and very little money until an upgrade was available. i liked that plan. i liked the young players we had. i liked that we were 28-26 and a sixth seed. there was something germinal about that team. germinal means fragile, delicate, but with some room for development. and no rebuild is going to be perfect and without blemishes. but the plan was to rebuild and that would not take the first two years of walsh's tenure but rather the next 3-5 years.

the melo trade destroyed all that. he didn't care about what sort of knick team he came to and now the chickens are coming home to roost. fuck him!

Donnie was brought here to clear up room for a big name free agent. The focus was always on landing Lebron and pairing him with another big name. Him giving max money to an uninsured Amare after we struck out should say enough about the intentions of the franchise when he was here. Once again, had it not been Melo, those guys would have been shipped off for something else or just let go altogether since they were due for a payday.

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

we were 28-26 and we were not a laughingstock. we were rebuilding. at least deron williams would have been filling a position of need that would fit properly with stoudemire. can't predict injuries.

is melo an innocent victim? just try to answer the question. if you don't answer in yes/no then you are just playing games.

Lol wtf is with the tone? You never asked me that question once. No he's not. I've stated several times that I mainly fault him for not asserting that the Knicks were the only team he wanted to go to and the only team he would sign the extension with. When he kept entertaining the idea of signing with the Nets, it allowed both Denver and Jersey to drive up the price. You happy?

As for the 28-26 team, I was talking in all the accumulated years before Melo got here. We were most certainly a laughing stock. Donnie was supposed to come here and erase that and he ended up making some atrocious trades (some that I believe Crush has pointed out before) and signing Amare and D'antoni. So we were a joke before this, weren't too big of a joke last season, and are now headed towards being a joke once again. You cannot blame all of that on Melo.

cool. so melo helped create the mess here. glad you see it that way. i thought it would end up a mess the minute the trade happened. pissed me off.

donnie was "supposed to" clean up someone else's mess, and he did. he needed two years to do it and most were surprised that it took so little time, the mess was so horrific. in so doing he also tried to create a healthy culture that could germinate and bear fruit.

lbj collusion and plan b? okay so amare comes in and walsh, not having a decent pg to acquire, decided to give felton a two year audition and very little money until an upgrade was available. i liked that plan. i liked the young players we had. i liked that we were 28-26 and a sixth seed. there was something germinal about that team. germinal means fragile, delicate, but with some room for development. and no rebuild is going to be perfect and without blemishes. but the plan was to rebuild and that would not take the first two years of walsh's tenure but rather the next 3-5 years.

the melo trade destroyed all that. he didn't care about what sort of knick team he came to and now the chickens are coming home to roost. fuck him!

Donnie was brought here to clear up room for a big name free agent. The focus was always on landing Lebron and pairing him with another big name. Him giving max money to an uninsured Amare after we struck out should say enough about the intentions of the franchise when he was here. Once again, had it not been Melo, those guys would have been shipped off for something else or just let go altogether since they were due for a payday.

you can't know that. i am dealing with facts not conjecture.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

melo's acquisition was not a necessity-- that is a fact.

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

we were 28-26 and we were not a laughingstock. we were rebuilding. at least deron williams would have been filling a position of need that would fit properly with stoudemire. can't predict injuries.

is melo an innocent victim? just try to answer the question. if you don't answer in yes/no then you are just playing games.

Lol wtf is with the tone? You never asked me that question once. No he's not. I've stated several times that I mainly fault him for not asserting that the Knicks were the only team he wanted to go to and the only team he would sign the extension with. When he kept entertaining the idea of signing with the Nets, it allowed both Denver and Jersey to drive up the price. You happy?

As for the 28-26 team, I was talking in all the accumulated years before Melo got here. We were most certainly a laughing stock. Donnie was supposed to come here and erase that and he ended up making some atrocious trades (some that I believe Crush has pointed out before) and signing Amare and D'antoni. So we were a joke before this, weren't too big of a joke last season, and are now headed towards being a joke once again. You cannot blame all of that on Melo.

cool. so melo helped create the mess here. glad you see it that way. i thought it would end up a mess the minute the trade happened. pissed me off.

donnie was "supposed to" clean up someone else's mess, and he did. he needed two years to do it and most were surprised that it took so little time, the mess was so horrific. in so doing he also tried to create a healthy culture that could germinate and bear fruit.

lbj collusion and plan b? okay so amare comes in and walsh, not having a decent pg to acquire, decided to give felton a two year audition and very little money until an upgrade was available. i liked that plan. i liked the young players we had. i liked that we were 28-26 and a sixth seed. there was something germinal about that team. germinal means fragile, delicate, but with some room for development. and no rebuild is going to be perfect and without blemishes. but the plan was to rebuild and that would not take the first two years of walsh's tenure but rather the next 3-5 years.

the melo trade destroyed all that. he didn't care about what sort of knick team he came to and now the chickens are coming home to roost. fuck him!

Donnie was brought here to clear up room for a big name free agent. The focus was always on landing Lebron and pairing him with another big name. Him giving max money to an uninsured Amare after we struck out should say enough about the intentions of the franchise when he was here. Once again, had it not been Melo, those guys would have been shipped off for something else or just let go altogether since they were due for a payday.

you can't know that. i am dealing with facts not conjecture.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

melo's acquisition was not a necessity-- that is a fact.

That doesnt sound like a problem to you? That actually almost lends itself to my precious point that you just said was conjecture (I'm not saying it's without a doubt fact, but it's an inference could make after seeing this franchise operate). "hey man, we watched this team suck for 2 so get us a big name player that we can go watch". That kind of fan impatience and entitlement can be the reason that we don't do the rebuild that some a clamoring for.

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

we were 28-26 and we were not a laughingstock. we were rebuilding. at least deron williams would have been filling a position of need that would fit properly with stoudemire. can't predict injuries.

is melo an innocent victim? just try to answer the question. if you don't answer in yes/no then you are just playing games.

Lol wtf is with the tone? You never asked me that question once. No he's not. I've stated several times that I mainly fault him for not asserting that the Knicks were the only team he wanted to go to and the only team he would sign the extension with. When he kept entertaining the idea of signing with the Nets, it allowed both Denver and Jersey to drive up the price. You happy?

As for the 28-26 team, I was talking in all the accumulated years before Melo got here. We were most certainly a laughing stock. Donnie was supposed to come here and erase that and he ended up making some atrocious trades (some that I believe Crush has pointed out before) and signing Amare and D'antoni. So we were a joke before this, weren't too big of a joke last season, and are now headed towards being a joke once again. You cannot blame all of that on Melo.

cool. so melo helped create the mess here. glad you see it that way. i thought it would end up a mess the minute the trade happened. pissed me off.

donnie was "supposed to" clean up someone else's mess, and he did. he needed two years to do it and most were surprised that it took so little time, the mess was so horrific. in so doing he also tried to create a healthy culture that could germinate and bear fruit.

lbj collusion and plan b? okay so amare comes in and walsh, not having a decent pg to acquire, decided to give felton a two year audition and very little money until an upgrade was available. i liked that plan. i liked the young players we had. i liked that we were 28-26 and a sixth seed. there was something germinal about that team. germinal means fragile, delicate, but with some room for development. and no rebuild is going to be perfect and without blemishes. but the plan was to rebuild and that would not take the first two years of walsh's tenure but rather the next 3-5 years.

the melo trade destroyed all that. he didn't care about what sort of knick team he came to and now the chickens are coming home to roost. fuck him!

Donnie was brought here to clear up room for a big name free agent. The focus was always on landing Lebron and pairing him with another big name. Him giving max money to an uninsured Amare after we struck out should say enough about the intentions of the franchise when he was here. Once again, had it not been Melo, those guys would have been shipped off for something else or just let go altogether since they were due for a payday.

you can't know that. i am dealing with facts not conjecture.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

melo's acquisition was not a necessity-- that is a fact.

That doesnt sound like a problem to you? That actually almost lends itself to my precious point that you just said was conjecture (I'm not saying it's without a doubt fact, but it's an inference could make after seeing this franchise operate). "hey man, we watched this team suck for 2 so get us a big name player that we can go watch". That kind of fan impatience and entitlement can be the reason that we don't do the rebuild that some a clamoring for.

no i see no problem with that. if i am a typical bread and circuses fan i don't want to wait to see another season without a star player. me? i was kind of <meh> about it as i felt that the next step was to get a point guard that would help amare excel. instead we got felton. that's worse than <meh>.

both were walsh moves.

but acquiring melo is the worst sort of pandering to the majority of knicks fans who are clearly quite stupid.

this was a dolan move.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Melo era or the Donnie-MDA-Amare-Clusterfcuk..

i choose to see matters as actions and reactions, not simply discrete events in separate vacuums.

you are trying to separate the melo era from the walsh/mda/amare one. that just won't fly. if you didn't like the donnie/mda/amare clusterfuck then you have to absolutely loathe the melo deal which simply compounded the problem, ie made it exponentially worse. the fact that you don't loathe it at this juncture of unqualified and epic fail shows very narrow thinking, perhaps even dishonesty... and for what? to protect poor carmelo anthony?

No, it's the fact that you ignore the totality of the problem...And you focus on what u deem the be a singular issue..Who is living in a vacuum..U also seem to want to give certain player in this play a pass...Problem is that you are afraid of the tough questions..U run away when the heat is turned up...U also have a single tone...Melo...

no. "the totality" of the problem ignores a timeline of cause and effect, or in this case the commission of a mistake and then compounding that first mistake with another one, making matters even worse, many times worse. there was a discrete series of events, accompanied by a discrete set of decisions, decided on by a discrete set of persons. by trying to lump everything together into one big mess is a very weak sauce attempt to deflect responsibility from the culprit. and so the heat is on those who still refuse to see carmelo anthony as a core problem for the knicks. the record speaks for itself.

The fact that you identify Melo as the core to a problem thats decades old just proves the point that many on this board have already called you out on. You post in a vacuum and as Holfresh eloquently stated....You have a single tone...MELO....

its painfully easy to see. A caveman could see it. All the coaches from Chaney, Lenny, Larry, Isiah, Herb, MDA, Woody... all the stupid trades and bad players and contracts that have been brought in which translate into more losing than before... and this is the guy he chooses to focus on?

yea.. no blind agenda there

We have the worst backcourt in the league. This is proven by stats. Yet this donkee points to the only guy on the team that gives us a chance to win every night. "The record speaks for itself..." funny.

the burden of failure falls on the shoulders of he who is paid the most money and who has cost the team the most assets.

same question as before: is melo an innocent victim of circumstances here?

Maybe in your world. In the real world the burden of failure falls on those who do not perform. Maybe you havent figured that out yet from mom's basement or your college dormroom but thats how it is in the real world with grownups.

you didn't answer the question i asked: is melo the innocent victim of circumstances here?

yes/no question. instead of insults and bravado howsabout you show some backbone here and answer the question?

its stupid question. Victim of what? Open your eyes and look at the team and the organization. You need me to tell you what you see?

how is a valid question seen as stupid? you're just being evasive. it's really kind of chickenish.

let me dumb things down for you:

did he play out his contract and wait for free agency? no

did he force a trade out of denver by saying he would not extend? yes

was he afraid of losing money if he did not force a trade, not really caring where he ended up? yes

is thinking about money first and foremost above winning considered greedy and selfish? yes

does he understand that the raw millions he stood to lose were really only a small percentage of his overall earnings? no

did he get signed by dolan knowing in advance that it would take a few seasons to rebuild? yes

is "rebuilding" a different concept or process from "win-now"? yes

did he make any decisions during the whole process of going from denver to new york? yes

so you see he is not an innocent victim.

If I may, Melo would have went to Brooklyn if we didn't make that trade...We might have ended up with DWill, MDA and Donnie's preference...But let's play out your scenario..What would the roster look like if Melo came here via free agency??..Lets skip a step, Wilson Chandler would not be resigned if we were to sign Melo via free agency??..Roster line up please with and added note of what player would earn, like Gallo at 11 mil per...

not going to answer that question until you answer the question i asked you specifically days and days ago: is melo an innocent victim here?

answer yes or no and i will then respond to your query. if i get doubletalk, evasions, insults, or <crickets> i can only assume you are playing games.

Innocent victim??..What the freak are u talking about???..U are just looking for a way to evade as u usually do...Run along...

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

we were 28-26 and we were not a laughingstock. we were rebuilding. at least deron williams would have been filling a position of need that would fit properly with stoudemire. can't predict injuries.

is melo an innocent victim? just try to answer the question. if you don't answer in yes/no then you are just playing games.

Lol wtf is with the tone? You never asked me that question once. No he's not. I've stated several times that I mainly fault him for not asserting that the Knicks were the only team he wanted to go to and the only team he would sign the extension with. When he kept entertaining the idea of signing with the Nets, it allowed both Denver and Jersey to drive up the price. You happy?

As for the 28-26 team, I was talking in all the accumulated years before Melo got here. We were most certainly a laughing stock. Donnie was supposed to come here and erase that and he ended up making some atrocious trades (some that I believe Crush has pointed out before) and signing Amare and D'antoni. So we were a joke before this, weren't too big of a joke last season, and are now headed towards being a joke once again. You cannot blame all of that on Melo.

cool. so melo helped create the mess here. glad you see it that way. i thought it would end up a mess the minute the trade happened. pissed me off.

donnie was "supposed to" clean up someone else's mess, and he did. he needed two years to do it and most were surprised that it took so little time, the mess was so horrific. in so doing he also tried to create a healthy culture that could germinate and bear fruit.

lbj collusion and plan b? okay so amare comes in and walsh, not having a decent pg to acquire, decided to give felton a two year audition and very little money until an upgrade was available. i liked that plan. i liked the young players we had. i liked that we were 28-26 and a sixth seed. there was something germinal about that team. germinal means fragile, delicate, but with some room for development. and no rebuild is going to be perfect and without blemishes. but the plan was to rebuild and that would not take the first two years of walsh's tenure but rather the next 3-5 years.

the melo trade destroyed all that. he didn't care about what sort of knick team he came to and now the chickens are coming home to roost. fuck him!

Donnie was brought here to clear up room for a big name free agent. The focus was always on landing Lebron and pairing him with another big name. Him giving max money to an uninsured Amare after we struck out should say enough about the intentions of the franchise when he was here. Once again, had it not been Melo, those guys would have been shipped off for something else or just let go altogether since they were due for a payday.

you can't know that. i am dealing with facts not conjecture.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

melo's acquisition was not a necessity-- that is a fact.

That doesnt sound like a problem to you? That actually almost lends itself to my precious point that you just said was conjecture (I'm not saying it's without a doubt fact, but it's an inference could make after seeing this franchise operate). "hey man, we watched this team suck for 2 so get us a big name player that we can go watch". That kind of fan impatience and entitlement can be the reason that we don't do the rebuild that some a clamoring for.

no i see no problem with that. if i am a typical bread and circuses fan i don't want to wait to see another season without a star player. me? i was kind of <meh> about it as i felt that the next step was to get a point guard that would help amare excel. instead we got felton. that's worse than <meh>.

both were walsh moves.

but acquiring melo is the worst sort of pandering to the majority of knicks fans who are clearly quite stupid.

this was a dolan move.

You just said signing Amare was Walsh's way of "rewarding our patience" because we sucked for 2 years. How is that not pandering to the majority of Knick fans?

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

we were 28-26 and we were not a laughingstock. we were rebuilding. at least deron williams would have been filling a position of need that would fit properly with stoudemire. can't predict injuries.

is melo an innocent victim? just try to answer the question. if you don't answer in yes/no then you are just playing games.

Lol wtf is with the tone? You never asked me that question once. No he's not. I've stated several times that I mainly fault him for not asserting that the Knicks were the only team he wanted to go to and the only team he would sign the extension with. When he kept entertaining the idea of signing with the Nets, it allowed both Denver and Jersey to drive up the price. You happy?

As for the 28-26 team, I was talking in all the accumulated years before Melo got here. We were most certainly a laughing stock. Donnie was supposed to come here and erase that and he ended up making some atrocious trades (some that I believe Crush has pointed out before) and signing Amare and D'antoni. So we were a joke before this, weren't too big of a joke last season, and are now headed towards being a joke once again. You cannot blame all of that on Melo.

cool. so melo helped create the mess here. glad you see it that way. i thought it would end up a mess the minute the trade happened. pissed me off.

donnie was "supposed to" clean up someone else's mess, and he did. he needed two years to do it and most were surprised that it took so little time, the mess was so horrific. in so doing he also tried to create a healthy culture that could germinate and bear fruit.

lbj collusion and plan b? okay so amare comes in and walsh, not having a decent pg to acquire, decided to give felton a two year audition and very little money until an upgrade was available. i liked that plan. i liked the young players we had. i liked that we were 28-26 and a sixth seed. there was something germinal about that team. germinal means fragile, delicate, but with some room for development. and no rebuild is going to be perfect and without blemishes. but the plan was to rebuild and that would not take the first two years of walsh's tenure but rather the next 3-5 years.

the melo trade destroyed all that. he didn't care about what sort of knick team he came to and now the chickens are coming home to roost. fuck him!

Donnie was brought here to clear up room for a big name free agent. The focus was always on landing Lebron and pairing him with another big name. Him giving max money to an uninsured Amare after we struck out should say enough about the intentions of the franchise when he was here. Once again, had it not been Melo, those guys would have been shipped off for something else or just let go altogether since they were due for a payday.

you can't know that. i am dealing with facts not conjecture.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

melo's acquisition was not a necessity-- that is a fact.

That doesnt sound like a problem to you? That actually almost lends itself to my precious point that you just said was conjecture (I'm not saying it's without a doubt fact, but it's an inference could make after seeing this franchise operate). "hey man, we watched this team suck for 2 so get us a big name player that we can go watch". That kind of fan impatience and entitlement can be the reason that we don't do the rebuild that some a clamoring for.

no i see no problem with that. if i am a typical bread and circuses fan i don't want to wait to see another season without a star player. me? i was kind of <meh> about it as i felt that the next step was to get a point guard that would help amare excel. instead we got felton. that's worse than <meh>.

both were walsh moves.

but acquiring melo is the worst sort of pandering to the majority of knicks fans who are clearly quite stupid.

this was a dolan move.

You just said signing Amare was Walsh's way of "rewarding our patience" because we sucked for 2 years. How is that not pandering to the majority of Knick fans?

i would have gladly waited but then i am am always in minority about the knicks. how about you> would you have gladly waited?

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

we were 28-26 and we were not a laughingstock. we were rebuilding. at least deron williams would have been filling a position of need that would fit properly with stoudemire. can't predict injuries.

is melo an innocent victim? just try to answer the question. if you don't answer in yes/no then you are just playing games.

Lol wtf is with the tone? You never asked me that question once. No he's not. I've stated several times that I mainly fault him for not asserting that the Knicks were the only team he wanted to go to and the only team he would sign the extension with. When he kept entertaining the idea of signing with the Nets, it allowed both Denver and Jersey to drive up the price. You happy?

As for the 28-26 team, I was talking in all the accumulated years before Melo got here. We were most certainly a laughing stock. Donnie was supposed to come here and erase that and he ended up making some atrocious trades (some that I believe Crush has pointed out before) and signing Amare and D'antoni. So we were a joke before this, weren't too big of a joke last season, and are now headed towards being a joke once again. You cannot blame all of that on Melo.

cool. so melo helped create the mess here. glad you see it that way. i thought it would end up a mess the minute the trade happened. pissed me off.

donnie was "supposed to" clean up someone else's mess, and he did. he needed two years to do it and most were surprised that it took so little time, the mess was so horrific. in so doing he also tried to create a healthy culture that could germinate and bear fruit.

lbj collusion and plan b? okay so amare comes in and walsh, not having a decent pg to acquire, decided to give felton a two year audition and very little money until an upgrade was available. i liked that plan. i liked the young players we had. i liked that we were 28-26 and a sixth seed. there was something germinal about that team. germinal means fragile, delicate, but with some room for development. and no rebuild is going to be perfect and without blemishes. but the plan was to rebuild and that would not take the first two years of walsh's tenure but rather the next 3-5 years.

the melo trade destroyed all that. he didn't care about what sort of knick team he came to and now the chickens are coming home to roost. fuck him!

Donnie was brought here to clear up room for a big name free agent. The focus was always on landing Lebron and pairing him with another big name. Him giving max money to an uninsured Amare after we struck out should say enough about the intentions of the franchise when he was here. Once again, had it not been Melo, those guys would have been shipped off for something else or just let go altogether since they were due for a payday.

you can't know that. i am dealing with facts not conjecture.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

melo's acquisition was not a necessity-- that is a fact.

That doesnt sound like a problem to you? That actually almost lends itself to my precious point that you just said was conjecture (I'm not saying it's without a doubt fact, but it's an inference could make after seeing this franchise operate). "hey man, we watched this team suck for 2 so get us a big name player that we can go watch". That kind of fan impatience and entitlement can be the reason that we don't do the rebuild that some a clamoring for.

no i see no problem with that. if i am a typical bread and circuses fan i don't want to wait to see another season without a star player. me? i was kind of <meh> about it as i felt that the next step was to get a point guard that would help amare excel. instead we got felton. that's worse than <meh>.

both were walsh moves.

but acquiring melo is the worst sort of pandering to the majority of knicks fans who are clearly quite stupid.

this was a dolan move.

You just said signing Amare was Walsh's way of "rewarding our patience" because we sucked for 2 years. How is that not pandering to the majority of Knick fans?

i would have gladly waited but then i am am always in minority about the knicks. how about you> would you have gladly waited?

You didn't answer the question. Why is Melo's trade pandering to fans but Amare's signing isn't?

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

we were 28-26 and we were not a laughingstock. we were rebuilding. at least deron williams would have been filling a position of need that would fit properly with stoudemire. can't predict injuries.

is melo an innocent victim? just try to answer the question. if you don't answer in yes/no then you are just playing games.

Lol wtf is with the tone? You never asked me that question once. No he's not. I've stated several times that I mainly fault him for not asserting that the Knicks were the only team he wanted to go to and the only team he would sign the extension with. When he kept entertaining the idea of signing with the Nets, it allowed both Denver and Jersey to drive up the price. You happy?

As for the 28-26 team, I was talking in all the accumulated years before Melo got here. We were most certainly a laughing stock. Donnie was supposed to come here and erase that and he ended up making some atrocious trades (some that I believe Crush has pointed out before) and signing Amare and D'antoni. So we were a joke before this, weren't too big of a joke last season, and are now headed towards being a joke once again. You cannot blame all of that on Melo.

cool. so melo helped create the mess here. glad you see it that way. i thought it would end up a mess the minute the trade happened. pissed me off.

donnie was "supposed to" clean up someone else's mess, and he did. he needed two years to do it and most were surprised that it took so little time, the mess was so horrific. in so doing he also tried to create a healthy culture that could germinate and bear fruit.

lbj collusion and plan b? okay so amare comes in and walsh, not having a decent pg to acquire, decided to give felton a two year audition and very little money until an upgrade was available. i liked that plan. i liked the young players we had. i liked that we were 28-26 and a sixth seed. there was something germinal about that team. germinal means fragile, delicate, but with some room for development. and no rebuild is going to be perfect and without blemishes. but the plan was to rebuild and that would not take the first two years of walsh's tenure but rather the next 3-5 years.

the melo trade destroyed all that. he didn't care about what sort of knick team he came to and now the chickens are coming home to roost. fuck him!

Donnie was brought here to clear up room for a big name free agent. The focus was always on landing Lebron and pairing him with another big name. Him giving max money to an uninsured Amare after we struck out should say enough about the intentions of the franchise when he was here. Once again, had it not been Melo, those guys would have been shipped off for something else or just let go altogether since they were due for a payday.

you can't know that. i am dealing with facts not conjecture.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

melo's acquisition was not a necessity-- that is a fact.

That doesnt sound like a problem to you? That actually almost lends itself to my precious point that you just said was conjecture (I'm not saying it's without a doubt fact, but it's an inference could make after seeing this franchise operate). "hey man, we watched this team suck for 2 so get us a big name player that we can go watch". That kind of fan impatience and entitlement can be the reason that we don't do the rebuild that some a clamoring for.

no i see no problem with that. if i am a typical bread and circuses fan i don't want to wait to see another season without a star player. me? i was kind of <meh> about it as i felt that the next step was to get a point guard that would help amare excel. instead we got felton. that's worse than <meh>.

both were walsh moves.

but acquiring melo is the worst sort of pandering to the majority of knicks fans who are clearly quite stupid.

this was a dolan move.

You just said signing Amare was Walsh's way of "rewarding our patience" because we sucked for 2 years. How is that not pandering to the majority of Knick fans?

i would have gladly waited but then i am am always in minority about the knicks. how about you> would you have gladly waited?

You didn't answer the question. Why is Melo's trade pandering to fans but Amare's signing isn't?

because walsh wanted to rebuild and that 2010-11 season was the first season of rebuild, after two season's of flushing thomas's poopoo away. that is not pandering. walsh is smarter than the fanbase but understands that they waited patiently for lebron james. so something had to be done. had to = necessity.

because dolan wanted a star player regardless of rebuild and regardless of fit. that is pandering. when you abandon a plan and want to put asses in seats because of a fool's gold superstar that is what you do, by choice. if you want to rebuild you have to have someone who is smarter than the fanbase. dolan is just as stupid -- and impatient-- as the fanbase. moreover he doesn't want to win so much as entertain the fanbase. as most posters have indicated hey it's his money just so long as i am entertained. the fanbase deserve the owner they have and the sort of player melo is. it isn't about winning.