People have asked me what the knicks should do in the future. Here's my top 10:
1. No major moves until melo decides what he'll do. I can go either way... If he resigns u keep a star but he'll take up half the cap. If he walks you gain the money.
2. Shed contracts. The experiment with the big 3 has failed. They have invested 54 million in melo amare and tyson. (Cap is 58 million). Just shed salaries once these contracts expire in 2015
3. Put more emphasis on draft picks. Many of you know that I'm not the biggest fan of draft picks. Most of these kids aren't ready. However I think things will change. First the age limit will go up to 20. This gives kids a chance to become a better finished product. Second, the developmental league will improve. Basically draft picks will be more ready in the future and it's cheaper labor.
4. Start rebuilding with a pg. No in the past, rings weren't won with a star PG but the rules have changed. No hand checking means - having a good pg is like having a good qb in football.
5. Invest in more 2 way players that can play offense and defense. Preferably defenders who can hit shots.
6. Get younger..The nba is a young sport so no more contracts for players in their mid 30s
7. Winning formula = elite (2 way star) + sidekick + role players + good coach (can manage rotations during the regular season and make adjustments in the playoffs)
8. Get a competent GM who will sign/draft injury free players in their prime
9. Develop the young...Tyler and Hardaway have potential.
10. Patience - no more quick bandaid moves to acquire "ok" talent for quick fixes. Teague, lowry and other ok players will improve a bad team but won't bring a championship. Just realize the 2013-14 season was a disaster and learn the lessons. (Don't invest in players with injuries, drug habits or a franchise player who holds the fate of the franchise in the palm of his hand)
(Dolan isn't going anywhere. No matter how much fans threaten him or protest)
callmened wrote:#4 - Start rebuilding with a pg.
Was thinking about this over the weekend, due to an off-hand comment I heard during the Nyets/Lakers (that's right, Nyets) pregame. The guy doing the rundown had mentioned that it was good the Knicks hadn't gotten DWill, which I thought was an odd thing to say. He mentioned how DWill had not lived up to the hype, and that the Nyets actually play better without him. Of course, then DWill goes off for 30 points and the Nyets win in Laketown for the first time in 7 years or so.
This got me thinking, and I could probably go back and look up another thread, but what PG's are in the league right now could the Knicks actually build around? And please don't tell me about PG's who just happen to look great against Felton, but who are honestly 'build around'-worthy.
Please add and update and fill in the blanks as necessary.
DWill - hurt with an attitude.
Nash - retirement ready
CP3 - unavailable and hurt
Lin - the PG who plays better without Harden. Hmmmmm.
Rondo - hurt alot; possible head case?
Kyle Lowry - this train has left the station.
Stephen Curry - unavailable and way too good.
Ty Lawson -
Kyrie Irving -
Damion Lillard -
John Wall -
All of this should have happened a month before the deadline.
Now we are in wait till 2015 mode aka fans go fuck yourselves
There are a couple of players out there whose basketball talents don't make them elite at an nba level but who are known for their character, work ethic, intensity and leadership qualities that might be worth a look with those last two roster spots. They certainly have a lot more upside then Ike diogu and are at least on his level as players. One guy, Jorge Gutierrez is in the d league. He is about the 5th highest rated poit in the league but is an all league defender, was an all conference defender, has good size and has been praised for his character and leadership abilities. He might not change the culture but he is a young player that could come in and really disrupt things for opponents with his d and he can run an offense. The other guy is Ivan Johnson. Johnson has a rep because he is too intense. He also is a guy that hawks players said was inspirational because of his work ethic on and off the court. He had a great season in china and is available as far as I know. Also, it might be time to cut ties with KMart to open up a roster spot.
Lowry may not be out of the picture but I would look at Isaiah Thomas in Sacramento since they want to go bigger. Very good in the PnR and good spot up shooter. He also shoots the three at a good % and at a high volume. I would have traded Shump for him in the offseason.
isiah thomas aka IT is a 20ppg and 8 ast player who will cost at least 8million a yr. were broke and dont have the assets to get him.
Lowry is a good player but hes too good and toronto might actually keep him
Would you trade Tim Hardaway for a PG? I think Courtney Lee is a pretty good comparison for who THjr is and may grow to be. Can he become something special? I guess it is possible but special players usually show something more than just scoring, imo.
Courtney Lee and add ins were traded for Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson. Now Vince didn't get them over the top but they still won nearly 60 games and got a good young player. Now, the goal would not to get another Vince but a better player. So, would you do it and has the land scape change to much that a deal like this would not work?
Also if you say no, would it be because of past and the lack of "home grown" talent?
Melo leaves we win 18 games next year joel embiid stays at Kansas and we get pick 1.
BRIGGS wrote:Melo leaves we win 18 games next year joel embiid stays at Kansas and we get pick 1.
have you seen this Knick team? Take Melo off it they win less than the 13 games those Nets won a couple years ago
yellowboy90 wrote:Would you trade Tim Hardaway for a PG? I think Courtney Lee is a pretty good comparison for who THjr is and may grow to be. Can he become something special? I guess it is possible but special players usually show something more than just scoring, imo.Courtney Lee and add ins were traded for Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson. Now Vince didn't get them over the top but they still won nearly 60 games and got a good young player. Now, the goal would not to get another Vince but a better player. So, would you do it and has the land scape change to much that a deal like this would not work?
Also if you say no, would it be because of past and the lack of "home grown" talent?
It depends on the player. If I'm trading THJr straight up for one of the top PGs in the game, CP3, Rondo, Parker, Rose, Curry, maybe John Wall, or a 2nd tier PG still on their rookie deal, Lillard, MCW, then absolutely yes no questions asked. But if we're talking a 2nd tier PG that's getting paid, like Lowry or Deron? Absolutely not. And this isn't a case of me overrating Hardaway like some posters do with our players. It all has to do with value and salary. Hardaway for Lowry is a great trade in a vacuum but for a team that's one of the 10 worst in the league, is 14 games under .500, has one 1st round pick until 2018, and is in salary cap hell? That trade makes almost no sense. Sure, we'll improve but only enough to fight for 7/8 seed in a shitty conference. And the added salary would make it even more difficult to sign players in free agency.
VCoug wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Would you trade Tim Hardaway for a PG? I think Courtney Lee is a pretty good comparison for who THjr is and may grow to be. Can he become something special? I guess it is possible but special players usually show something more than just scoring, imo.Courtney Lee and add ins were traded for Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson. Now Vince didn't get them over the top but they still won nearly 60 games and got a good young player. Now, the goal would not to get another Vince but a better player. So, would you do it and has the land scape change to much that a deal like this would not work?
Also if you say no, would it be because of past and the lack of "home grown" talent?
It depends on the player. If I'm trading THJr straight up for one of the top PGs in the game, CP3, Rondo, Parker, Rose, Curry, maybe John Wall, or a 2nd tier PG still on their rookie deal, Lillard, MCW, then absolutely yes no questions asked. But if we're talking a 2nd tier PG that's getting paid, like Lowry or Deron? Absolutely not. And this isn't a case of me overrating Hardaway like some posters do with our players. It all has to do with value and salary. Hardaway for Lowry is a great trade in a vacuum but for a team that's one of the 10 worst in the league, is 14 games under .500, has one 1st round pick until 2018, and is in salary cap hell? That trade makes almost no sense. Sure, we'll improve but only enough to fight for 7/8 seed in a shitty conference. And the added salary would make it even more difficult to sign players in free agency.
actually makes pretty good sense when you look at the different between this team and the one that won 54 games last year is guard play.
fishmike wrote:VCoug wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Would you trade Tim Hardaway for a PG? I think Courtney Lee is a pretty good comparison for who THjr is and may grow to be. Can he become something special? I guess it is possible but special players usually show something more than just scoring, imo.Courtney Lee and add ins were traded for Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson. Now Vince didn't get them over the top but they still won nearly 60 games and got a good young player. Now, the goal would not to get another Vince but a better player. So, would you do it and has the land scape change to much that a deal like this would not work?
Also if you say no, would it be because of past and the lack of "home grown" talent?
It depends on the player. If I'm trading THJr straight up for one of the top PGs in the game, CP3, Rondo, Parker, Rose, Curry, maybe John Wall, or a 2nd tier PG still on their rookie deal, Lillard, MCW, then absolutely yes no questions asked. But if we're talking a 2nd tier PG that's getting paid, like Lowry or Deron? Absolutely not. And this isn't a case of me overrating Hardaway like some posters do with our players. It all has to do with value and salary. Hardaway for Lowry is a great trade in a vacuum but for a team that's one of the 10 worst in the league, is 14 games under .500, has one 1st round pick until 2018, and is in salary cap hell? That trade makes almost no sense. Sure, we'll improve but only enough to fight for 7/8 seed in a shitty conference. And the added salary would make it even more difficult to sign players in free agency.
actually makes pretty good sense when you look at the different between this team and the one that won 54 games last year is guard play.
I hear you about salary but will it matter in 14 when in 15 most of the salary come off? Also, would you do it if a team will take back Amar'e and/or Bargs a year early? I doubt NY can do it but what if Ny gets a young player back too like Orlando did with Ryan Anderson included with Vince Carter?
callmened wrote:People have asked me what the knicks should do in the future. Here's my top 10:1. No major moves until melo decides what he'll do. I can go either way... If he resigns u keep a star but he'll take up half the cap. If he walks you gain the money.
2. Shed contracts. The experiment with the big 3 has failed. They have invested 54 million in melo amare and tyson. (Cap is 58 million). Just shed salaries once these contracts expire in 2015
3. Put more emphasis on draft picks. Many of you know that I'm not the biggest fan of draft picks. Most of these kids aren't ready. However I think things will change. First the age limit will go up to 20. This gives kids a chance to become a better finished product. Second, the developmental league will improve. Basically draft picks will be more ready in the future and it's cheaper labor.
4. Start rebuilding with a pg. No in the past, rings weren't won with a star PG but the rules have changed. No hand checking means - having a good pg is like having a good qb in football.
5. Invest in more 2 way players that can play offense and defense. Preferably defenders who can hit shots.
6. Get younger..The nba is a young sport so no more contracts for players in their mid 30s
7. Winning formula = elite (2 way star) + sidekick + role players + good coach (can manage rotations during the regular season and make adjustments in the playoffs)
8. Get a competent GM who will sign/draft injury free players in their prime
9. Develop the young...Tyler and Hardaway have potential.
10. Patience - no more quick bandaid moves to acquire "ok" talent for quick fixes. Teague, lowry and other ok players will improve a bad team but won't bring a championship. Just realize the 2013-14 season was a disaster and learn the lessons. (Don't invest in players with injuries, drug habits or a franchise player who holds the fate of the franchise in the palm of his hand)
(Dolan isn't going anywhere. No matter how much fans threaten him or protest)
Papabear Says
What you wrote is so true but as you know it won't happen.
fishmike wrote:VCoug wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Would you trade Tim Hardaway for a PG? I think Courtney Lee is a pretty good comparison for who THjr is and may grow to be. Can he become something special? I guess it is possible but special players usually show something more than just scoring, imo.Courtney Lee and add ins were traded for Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson. Now Vince didn't get them over the top but they still won nearly 60 games and got a good young player. Now, the goal would not to get another Vince but a better player. So, would you do it and has the land scape change to much that a deal like this would not work?
Also if you say no, would it be because of past and the lack of "home grown" talent?
It depends on the player. If I'm trading THJr straight up for one of the top PGs in the game, CP3, Rondo, Parker, Rose, Curry, maybe John Wall, or a 2nd tier PG still on their rookie deal, Lillard, MCW, then absolutely yes no questions asked. But if we're talking a 2nd tier PG that's getting paid, like Lowry or Deron? Absolutely not. And this isn't a case of me overrating Hardaway like some posters do with our players. It all has to do with value and salary. Hardaway for Lowry is a great trade in a vacuum but for a team that's one of the 10 worst in the league, is 14 games under .500, has one 1st round pick until 2018, and is in salary cap hell? That trade makes almost no sense. Sure, we'll improve but only enough to fight for 7/8 seed in a shitty conference. And the added salary would make it even more difficult to sign players in free agency.
actually makes pretty good sense when you look at the different between this team and the one that won 54 games last year is guard play.
Guard play isn't the only difference. Woodson hadn't alienated half the roster, including but not limited to Tyson and Shumpert, and Kidd was on hand to cover a lot of his idiocy. JR Smith didn't play like an overmatched D-League player. Steve Novak was a valuable member of our team even though Knicks fans continually underrate his contributions. Bargnani didn't play a single game for us. Neither did Chris Smith.
yellowboy90 wrote:fishmike wrote:VCoug wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Would you trade Tim Hardaway for a PG? I think Courtney Lee is a pretty good comparison for who THjr is and may grow to be. Can he become something special? I guess it is possible but special players usually show something more than just scoring, imo.Courtney Lee and add ins were traded for Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson. Now Vince didn't get them over the top but they still won nearly 60 games and got a good young player. Now, the goal would not to get another Vince but a better player. So, would you do it and has the land scape change to much that a deal like this would not work?
Also if you say no, would it be because of past and the lack of "home grown" talent?
It depends on the player. If I'm trading THJr straight up for one of the top PGs in the game, CP3, Rondo, Parker, Rose, Curry, maybe John Wall, or a 2nd tier PG still on their rookie deal, Lillard, MCW, then absolutely yes no questions asked. But if we're talking a 2nd tier PG that's getting paid, like Lowry or Deron? Absolutely not. And this isn't a case of me overrating Hardaway like some posters do with our players. It all has to do with value and salary. Hardaway for Lowry is a great trade in a vacuum but for a team that's one of the 10 worst in the league, is 14 games under .500, has one 1st round pick until 2018, and is in salary cap hell? That trade makes almost no sense. Sure, we'll improve but only enough to fight for 7/8 seed in a shitty conference. And the added salary would make it even more difficult to sign players in free agency.
actually makes pretty good sense when you look at the different between this team and the one that won 54 games last year is guard play.
I hear you about salary but will it matter in 14 when in 15 most of the salary come off? Also, would you do it if a team will take back Amar'e and/or Bargs a year early? I doubt NY can do it but what if Ny gets a young player back too like Orlando did with Ryan Anderson included with Vince Carter?
Any trade for a PG will eat up salary cap so even though at least Amare won't be part of the picture there's still Melo, Tyson, and Point Guard X eating up most if not all of the cap.
And I don't care about dropping Amare's or Bargnani's contract a year early; all that does is save Dolan some luxury tax payments. Fuck him.
And if we're getting a near Hall of Fame caliber player plus a nearly all-star caliber player on a rookie deal then yes, I would make that trade. Not that it matters since you might as well be asking me if I'd trade Bargnani straight up for Lebron; no team in their right mind would ever agree to such a trade.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/...OKC was supposedly offering a 1st in this years draft for Shump and the Knicks actually turned it down. That's super dumb. Also, the clips were offering 2 second round picks included in their pkg. The Knicks wanted a pg to save the season instead of building on the future.
yellowboy90 wrote:http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/...OKC was supposedly offering a 1st in this years draft for Shump and the Knicks actually turned it down. That's super dumb. Also, the clips were offering 2 second round picks included in their pkg. The Knicks wanted a pg to save the season instead of building on the future.
Wow. That clippers deal was a franchise changer. The question now is, who allowed shump on the court. Mullens and the 2 second rounders in addition to Barnes and collision is a sweet deal. Hope Dolan is made aware that mills or Woodson dropped the ball on.
Mullens sucks and would get cut immediately here but yeah playing Shump was motivated by them wanting to save the season. I just hope that Shump puts together some good games late and teams still want him this much over the summer. This draft is deep and I'd take a chance on a pick over Shump right now.
