gunsnewing wrote:I'm fine with keeping Melo. Just get me leaders like billups and Kidd. Can't get those if we pay Melo $30m per
why not? We were already tapped out and we added Kidd. Lin came from the scrap heap. So did Novak and Copeland. Fields was lost because Toronto would rather pay him like Shandon Anderson than let the Knicks use him in a side and trade for Nash... I mean the Knicks have done a good job of getting guys, they just cant figure out who to keep or how to build a team.
Even with Amare's contract festering and being capped out we have gotten guys...
fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:They played as a team. Not ISO Melo or jr We iso'd more as the year went on. It effected our offensive efficiency as guys stopped touching the ball and moving around. A lot of ball watching. Non-coincidently the defense turned to shit. Tyson and Felton were a shell of their former selves. No inspiration in ISO ball. We were a .500 team until Melo go ridiculously hot in his isos at the end of the year and we are able to beat the Orlando's of the world. The. We were exposed vs real teams like Boston and Indiana in the playoffs
is the ISO because its what Melo wants or a result of poor play from the rest of the roster and a coach with no answer or adjustments for that poor play?I mean Kidd didnt hit a shot in the playoffs. He literally shot 0%. JR missed everything and shot somewhere in the 30s. Tyson had played Hibbert well in the reg season and we beat Indy. You figured he could at least hold it down against Hibbert. He didnt. So Woody fed Melo hoping to stay in the game and get something, anything from someone else. It didnt happen. Do you hang that on Melo? Or is it just his fault because this is his team and we gave up so much to get him etc etc etc
My favorite part is when DK (hee-haw) says the guy leading the NBA in minutes, #2 in scoring and top 10 in the NBA in over all production (PER) is out of shape. Good stuff. I also heard Melo hates kittens and cute things in general.
Yea that was going to be my next point. Melo is laying in the bed that he made. Not all his fault because Dolan is a moron
fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The only other time we played like a team was during linsanity
agree, but not sustainable. Melo didnt kill linsanity... Miami and Deron Williams did. Folks caught on. What was more impressive was the 18-4 run to finish the season when MElo was beasting and Lin was playing the role of a normal PG (15ppg 6assists ish)
Not all that impressive because a few days later the postseason started and we almost lost to the rondo-less celtics. Albeit in large part due to JR. But these are the kind of players you settle for when you seek max money
fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The only other time we played like a team was during linsanity
agree, but not sustainable. Melo didnt kill linsanity... Miami and Deron Williams did. Folks caught on. What was more impressive was the 18-4 run to finish the season when MElo was beasting and Lin was playing the role of a normal PG (15ppg 6assists ish)
and looking at this season, was that sustainable... meanwhile lin playing like a normal PG in Houston has a legit chance at a title this year..
Talent cost money. You can't just field a roster with vet min deals, players who are 40 and run out of gas after 20 games and NBDL one trick ponies. Lin was a gift from the gods that we squandered and will never see again
Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The first 23 games were awesome. The way they played after that was not condusive to winning in the playoffs
And who led the team during those first 23 awesomely boring games?
Clearly the guys who aren't here were critical difference makers (even if you devalue them because of low PPG). It's not really that hard to notice the co-occurrence of certain players leaving and the team going downhill. You can't just force any agenda into your interpretation of the games. If players A, B, and C leave while D stays and the team goes downhill, it's borderline delusional to argue that player D was carrying the team.
Unless of course, you happen to look at the statistics from those 23 games. But then, we shouldn't do that, should we? Or do we?
How about if A, B, and C leave and have little to no impact where they went while player D continues to beast on a team full of F's, what do you draw about your delusional agenda then?
Why of course, any non-delusional person would conclude that player D is obviously a fat, lazy, greedy, overpaid, spiritually bankrupt, dummie malcontent.
gunsnewing wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The only other time we played like a team was during linsanity
agree, but not sustainable. Melo didnt kill linsanity... Miami and Deron Williams did. Folks caught on. What was more impressive was the 18-4 run to finish the season when MElo was beasting and Lin was playing the role of a normal PG (15ppg 6assists ish)
Not all that impressive because a few days later the postseason started and we almost lost to the rondo-less celtics. Albeit in large part due to JR. But these are the kind of players you settle for when you seek max money
Those are 2 different seasons. We played Miami in the season fish is talking about.
Also you have to take into account that Melo is going to be over 30 and how much do you want to pay a guy who doesn't defend? You need money to surround him with defensive players
gunsnewing wrote:TeamBall wrote:gunsnewing wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The only other time we played like a team was during linsanity
agree, but not sustainable. Melo didnt kill linsanity... Miami and Deron Williams did. Folks caught on. What was more impressive was the 18-4 run to finish the season when MElo was beasting and Lin was playing the role of a normal PG (15ppg 6assists ish)
Not all that impressive because a few days later the postseason started and we almost lost to the rondo-less celtics. Albeit in large part due to JR. But these are the kind of players you settle for when you seek max money
Those are 2 different seasons. We played Miami in the season fish is talking about.
Lin was out
Maybe theres some confusion here. Fish said that the 18-4 run to finish the season (the same year as Linsanity) was impressive. You said it wasnt all that impressive because we went onto almost lose to the Celtics without rondo a few days later. Those 2 seasons were different so I don't see how that could make the 18-4 finish unimpressive when what you're referring to was a year later.
Oh I see. 18-4 that year and the finish last year were similar in that we beat up on weaker teams playing HEROBALL and got crushed both times once the playoffs rolled around
gunsnewing wrote:Oh I see. 18-4 that year and the finish last year were similar in that we beat up on weaker teams playing HEROBALL and got crushed both times once the playoffs rolled around
Ooooh ok. We certainly agree there when it comes to last year but we barely had a team against Miami (not that it would have made much of a difference).
Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The first 23 games were awesome. The way they played after that was not condusive to winning in the playoffs
And who led the team during those first 23 awesomely boring games?
Clearly the guys who aren't here were critical difference makers (even if you devalue them because of low PPG). It's not really that hard to notice the co-occurrence of certain players leaving and the team going downhill. You can't just force any agenda into your interpretation of the games. If players A, B, and C leave while D stays and the team goes downhill, it's borderline delusional to argue that player D was carrying the team.
Unless of course, you happen to look at the statistics from those 23 games.
What stats? PPG?
I'm curious do you think ppg is useless or just overvalued?
TeamBall wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Oh I see. 18-4 that year and the finish last year were similar in that we beat up on weaker teams playing HEROBALL and got crushed both times once the playoffs rolled around
Ooooh ok. We certainly agree there when it comes to last year but we barely had a team against Miami (not that it would have made much of a difference).
Fish is right. Both times the team was depleted of talent and the only way to compete was to ISO Melo but there are other factors that come into play. First and foremost it's the bed that Melo made by forcing a trade here and Woodson never having a grasp on his roster. Misuse of Novak, Amare, prigioni and copeland. Never pulling Hibbert away from the paint to make it easier for Melo inside. Frank got even alluded to how surprised he was at Woodson's lack of adjustments. The doubling and switching on defense etc
TeamBall wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The first 23 games were awesome. The way they played after that was not condusive to winning in the playoffs
And who led the team during those first 23 awesomely boring games?
Clearly the guys who aren't here were critical difference makers (even if you devalue them because of low PPG). It's not really that hard to notice the co-occurrence of certain players leaving and the team going downhill. You can't just force any agenda into your interpretation of the games. If players A, B, and C leave while D stays and the team goes downhill, it's borderline delusional to argue that player D was carrying the team.
Unless of course, you happen to look at the statistics from those 23 games.
What stats? PPG?
I'm curious do you think ppg is useless or just overvalued?
It's not useless but very overvalued by most people. Especially media types who then influence fans
gunsnewing wrote:TeamBall wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The first 23 games were awesome. The way they played after that was not condusive to winning in the playoffs
And who led the team during those first 23 awesomely boring games?
Clearly the guys who aren't here were critical difference makers (even if you devalue them because of low PPG). It's not really that hard to notice the co-occurrence of certain players leaving and the team going downhill. You can't just force any agenda into your interpretation of the games. If players A, B, and C leave while D stays and the team goes downhill, it's borderline delusional to argue that player D was carrying the team.
Unless of course, you happen to look at the statistics from those 23 games.
What stats? PPG?
I'm curious do you think ppg is useless or just overvalued?
It's not useless but very overvalued by most people. Especially media types
It definitely is. It's also a huge draw for a casual fan. But it doesn't hurt to have a guy who can score on your team.
gunsnewing wrote:Oh I see. 18-4 that year and the finish last year were similar in that we beat up on weaker teams playing HEROBALL and got crushed both times once the playoffs rolled around
Guns... its just not how it happened. Knicks beat Indy 2x, the Nets, the Bulls, The Clippers, Hawks...
Lin tweeked his knee, and shut it down.
And last year the Knicks beat almost every elite team in the league at least once... I 100000% agree that iso ball is not going to win in the playoffs and thats part of why Melo's teams fail, when he's the primary scorer. You must have another guy to lean on.
TeamBall wrote:gunsnewing wrote:TeamBall wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:gunsnewing wrote:The first 23 games were awesome. The way they played after that was not condusive to winning in the playoffs
And who led the team during those first 23 awesomely boring games?
Clearly the guys who aren't here were critical difference makers (even if you devalue them because of low PPG). It's not really that hard to notice the co-occurrence of certain players leaving and the team going downhill. You can't just force any agenda into your interpretation of the games. If players A, B, and C leave while D stays and the team goes downhill, it's borderline delusional to argue that player D was carrying the team.
Unless of course, you happen to look at the statistics from those 23 games.
What stats? PPG?
I'm curious do you think ppg is useless or just overvalued?
It's not useless but very overvalued by most people. Especially media types
It definitely is. It's also a huge draw for a casual fan. But it doesn't hurt to have a guy who can score on your team.
all depends on how he gets those points. that's why melo is a dinosaur.
