Knicks · Rangers trade Captain Ryan Callhan (28 yeras old) and potential 2 # 1 picks for 39 year old Martin St Louis (page 1)

Yep well see change soon.

sounds like the Knicks braintrust is hard at work with all the Garden endevours

Great trade for the Rangers

Actually, this is the complete opposite. The Knicks could learn a lot from what the Rangers did here. For starters, Cally is injury prone. He has been out in the playoffs several times or injured to the point where he is not effective. Additionally, his salary ask was out of this world given his numbers and injury history. By year 3 or 4 of that contract the Rangers would likely be kicking themselves.

This was really the only option for a trade since Kessler refused to waive his no trade to come to NY. Rather than lose him for nothing, and allow the Cally situation to continue to be a distraction, they shipped him out to bring in a proven goal scorer with a reasonable contract. St. Louis' s contract expires next year. This allows the Rangers cap flexibility (the main reason they made this trade). Also allows the Rangers an extra year to develop and evaluate young talent that expires is 2015 and 2016 (Stall, Zuccarello, etc). The Rangers couldn't have gotten much more since Cally is really a rental at this point. Not sure how this can be considered even remotely close to what the Knicks do.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:Actually, this is the complete opposite. The Knicks could learn a lot from what the Rangers did here. For starters, Cally is injury prone. He has been out in the playoffs several times or injured to the point where he is not effective. Additionally, his salary ask was out of this world given his numbers and injury history. By year 3 or 4 of that contract the Rangers would likely be kicking themselves.

This was really the only option for a trade since Kessler refused to waive his no trade to come to NY. Rather than lose him for nothing, and allow the Cally situation to continue to be a distraction, they shipped him out to bring in a proven goal scorer with a reasonable contract. St. Louis' s contract expires next year. This allows the Rangers cap flexibility (the main reason they made this trade). Also allows the Rangers an extra year to develop and evaluate young talent that expires is 2015 and 2016 (Stall, Zuccarello, etc). The Rangers couldn't have gotten much more since Cally is really a rental at this point. Not sure how this can be considered even remotely close to what the Knicks do.

dont follow hockey... I did hear Rangers couldnt or wouldnt resign him so this made sense.

But if you dont follow hockey you see younger traded for older with picks going out and not coming in

this is a great trade if you think the Rangers are contenders. I don't. St. Louis is 38 years old. He's got this year and next on his contract. Maybe he plays after that, maybe not - probably not. From what I've read, the Rangers had options on the table to get picks/prospects back for Cally. I would have preferred that option instead of the Jimmy D special. What did he get bored with basketball and came in to meddle with the Rangers affairs?

Also, there is a NYR thread in the OT board. I pretty much talk to myself there. It would be nice if others posted there on occasion

Put it this way. It would be like the Knicks trading Tyson for Kobe. Kobe makes you better for a playoff run. The Rangers need to try to win now. The team as presently constituted was not getting past the 2nd round. We've seen it play out every year. Playoffs come around and they can't score goals. Like Tyson and Callahan both in their early 30s are the supposed leaders of their teams. Both are always injured and/or sick half the time.

Signing MSL is less of a cap hold as his contract does not strap you down for 6yrs. MSL is 38 like Kobe he keeps himself in superb condition. Has more goals and points then anyone on the rangers. Perennial 30 goal scorer every year. See all the multiple goals scoring games. Callahan flourished under Torts. Vigneault wants to play open ice hockey more speed and offense. Callahan is not worth that kind of money. Read Tampa's GM Steve Izerman's comments on whether Tampa got better? He said he doesn't know. MSL forced their hand and Tampa got the best deal they could.

My biggest worry is when the games matter do you stick with Lunquivst or do you go with Talbot who dominates every time he starts.

Better to lock up your goalie and defensemen as the rangers did locking up lundquisvt and girardi than a wing player who rarely scores and misses games because of the way he plays. Which again fit perfectly in Tortorella's system. Like football. Great hockey teams are built in the trenches. In this case goalie and the defensemen in front of him. Like the O & D-line in football.

They lost in OT last night but watching the MSL, Richard, hagelin line was a joy. Instant chemistry since they were together in Tampa all those years.

Rangers may not be able to beat Boston who are just bigger but they can hopefully give them their money's worth in the ECF.

Bottomline is guys like Stefan, mcdonaugh and girardi need to step up

zuckerella will be back soon and rick Nash will get hot again. They will have 3 explosive lines going into the playoffs

When was the last time you were able to say that about the rangers.

Seeding doesn't matter. They have enough scoring. They just have to get in and the goaltender needs to stand on his head for a few weeks

And that is very exciting to me. Amazing what happens when Dolan stays out of the way and let's his hockey people run the team. I've been tuned in to every ranger game this year knowing that before the Knicks season even started they were going to be trash. Thank god for the Rangers otherwise this winter would've sucked even more

Oh and the 1st round pick they have up will be in the 20s. Rangers have plenty of youngsters currently on the team and in the pipeline.

Unlike the Knicks they are built to win now. They don't need late 1st rd picks. They've already built through the draft

MSL wanted to play for the rangers. Kessler did not. MSL is better

fishmike wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:Actually, this is the complete opposite. The Knicks could learn a lot from what the Rangers did here. For starters, Cally is injury prone. He has been out in the playoffs several times or injured to the point where he is not effective. Additionally, his salary ask was out of this world given his numbers and injury history. By year 3 or 4 of that contract the Rangers would likely be kicking themselves.

This was really the only option for a trade since Kessler refused to waive his no trade to come to NY. Rather than lose him for nothing, and allow the Cally situation to continue to be a distraction, they shipped him out to bring in a proven goal scorer with a reasonable contract. St. Louis' s contract expires next year. This allows the Rangers cap flexibility (the main reason they made this trade). Also allows the Rangers an extra year to develop and evaluate young talent that expires is 2015 and 2016 (Stall, Zuccarello, etc). The Rangers couldn't have gotten much more since Cally is really a rental at this point. Not sure how this can be considered even remotely close to what the Knicks do.

dont follow hockey... I did hear Rangers couldnt or wouldnt resign him so this made sense.

But if you dont follow hockey you see younger traded for older with picks going out and not coming in

Exactly. If you don't follow hockey that's exactly what you see. Most of the people criticizing the trade don't follow hockey AT ALL

SupremeCommander wrote:this is a great trade if you think the Rangers are contenders. I don't. St. Louis Is 38 years old. He's got this year and next on his contract. Maybe he plays after that, maybe not - probably not. From what I've read, the Rangers had options on the table to get picks/prospects back for Cally. I would have preferred that option instead of the Jimmy D special. What did he get bored with basketball and came in to meddle with the Rangers affairs?

Also, there is a NYR thread in the OT board. I pretty much talk to myself there. It would be nice if others posted there on occasion

I disagree with this view on the trade. Vegas seems to think this makes us better short term, which I found surprising. I think they are contenders as hockey is all about the hot goaltender. Last year was a rare chalk year in the NHL playoffs. The Rangers have the personnel to actually score a few goals for once and if Henrik can get hot, it is not crazy to say they can make a run.

I love what the trade does long term. They were trading for flexibility. They can now choose to do what they want with McDonaugh, Stall, Krieder, Zucs, and their other young talent. In addition, Cally didn't guarantee he would resign anywhere and the guy is on some really good stuff asking for the years/money that he is. You can't pay that kinda money for intangibles. I am a big Cally fan, but this is the right move long term.

gunsnewing wrote:Put it this way. It would be like the Knicks trading Tyson for Kobe. Kobe makes you better for a playoff run. The Rangers need to try to win now. The team as presently constituted was not getting past the 2nd round. We've seen it play out every year. Playoffs come around and they can't score goals. Like Tyson and Callahan both in their early 30s are the supposed leaders of their teams. Both are always injured and/or sick half the time.

Signing MSL is less of a cap hold as his contract does not strap you down for 6yrs. MSL is 38 like Kobe he keeps himself in superb condition. Has more goals and points then anyone on the rangers. Perennial 30 goal scorer every year. See all the multiple goals scoring games. Callahan flourished under Torts. Vigneault wants to play open ice hockey more speed and offense. Callahan is not worth that kind of money. Read Tampa's GM Steve Izerman's comments on whether Tampa got better? He said he doesn't know. MSL forced their hand and Tampa got the best deal they could.

My biggest worry is when the games matter do you stick with Lunquivst or do you go with Talbot who dominates every time he starts.

Better to lock up your goalie and defensemen as the rangers did locking up lundquisvt and girardi than a wing player who rarely scores and misses games because of the way he plays. Which again fit perfectly in Tortorella's system. Like football. Great hockey teams are built in the trenches. In this case goalie and the defensemen in front of him. Like the O & D-line in football.

They lost in OT last night but watching the MSL, Richard, hagelin line was a joy. Instant chemistry since they were together in Tampa all those years.

Rangers may not be able to beat Boston who are just bigger but they can hopefully give them their money's worth in the ECF.

Bottomline is guys like Stefan, mcdonaugh and girardi need to step up

zuckerella will be back soon and rick Nash will get hot again. They will have 3 explosive lines going into the playoffs

When was the last time you were able to say that about the rangers.

Seeding doesn't matter. They have enough scoring. They just have to get in and the goaltender needs to stand on his head for a few weeks

And that is very exciting to me. Amazing what happens when Dolan stays out of the way and let's his hockey people run the team. I've been tuned in to every ranger game this year knowing that before the Knicks season even started they were going to be trash. Thank god for the Rangers otherwise this winter would've sucked even more

Oh and the 1st round pick they have up will be in the 20s. Rangers have plenty of youngsters currently on the team and in the pipeline.

Unlike the Knicks they are built to win now. They don't need late 1st rd picks. They've already built through the draft

MSL wanted to play for the rangers. Kessler did not. MSL is better

I agree with your assessment on the Rangers. Not really sure your analogy for the Kobe trade fits though. I think St. Louis is a trade off in the short term. Offensively, it is certainly an upgrade for NYR. I like some of the other things Cally brings that St. Louis can't. I am happy with the flexibility this gives the Rangers after 2015, while not having a potential downgrade next year when losing Cally for nothing. Also 38 in hockey vs 38 in the NBA isn't quiet as bad.

In the past the rangers would sign over the hill former stars and give up every asset like the Knicks. They finally stocked up on their own young talent and it paid off.wish I could say the same for the Knicks

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Put it this way. It would be like the Knicks trading Tyson for Kobe. Kobe makes you better for a playoff run. The Rangers need to try to win now. The team as presently constituted was not getting past the 2nd round. We've seen it play out every year. Playoffs come around and they can't score goals. Like Tyson and Callahan both in their early 30s are the supposed leaders of their teams. Both are always injured and/or sick half the time.

Signing MSL is less of a cap hold as his contract does not strap you down for 6yrs. MSL is 38 like Kobe he keeps himself in superb condition. Has more goals and points then anyone on the rangers. Perennial 30 goal scorer every year. See all the multiple goals scoring games. Callahan flourished under Torts. Vigneault wants to play open ice hockey more speed and offense. Callahan is not worth that kind of money. Read Tampa's GM Steve Izerman's comments on whether Tampa got better? He said he doesn't know. MSL forced their hand and Tampa got the best deal they could.

My biggest worry is when the games matter do you stick with Lunquivst or do you go with Talbot who dominates every time he starts.

Better to lock up your goalie and defensemen as the rangers did locking up lundquisvt and girardi than a wing player who rarely scores and misses games because of the way he plays. Which again fit perfectly in Tortorella's system. Like football. Great hockey teams are built in the trenches. In this case goalie and the defensemen in front of him. Like the O & D-line in football.

They lost in OT last night but watching the MSL, Richard, hagelin line was a joy. Instant chemistry since they were together in Tampa all those years.

Rangers may not be able to beat Boston who are just bigger but they can hopefully give them their money's worth in the ECF.

Bottomline is guys like Stefan, mcdonaugh and girardi need to step up

zuckerella will be back soon and rick Nash will get hot again. They will have 3 explosive lines going into the playoffs

When was the last time you were able to say that about the rangers.

Seeding doesn't matter. They have enough scoring. They just have to get in and the goaltender needs to stand on his head for a few weeks

And that is very exciting to me. Amazing what happens when Dolan stays out of the way and let's his hockey people run the team. I've been tuned in to every ranger game this year knowing that before the Knicks season even started they were going to be trash. Thank god for the Rangers otherwise this winter would've sucked even more

Oh and the 1st round pick they have up will be in the 20s. Rangers have plenty of youngsters currently on the team and in the pipeline.

Unlike the Knicks they are built to win now. They don't need late 1st rd picks. They've already built through the draft

MSL wanted to play for the rangers. Kessler did not. MSL is better

I agree with your assessment on the Rangers. Not really sure your analogy for the Kobe trade fits though. I think St. Louis is a trade off in the short term. Offensively, it is certainly an upgrade for NYR. I like some of the other things Cally brings that St. Louis can't. I am happy with the flexibility this gives the Rangers after 2015, while not having a potential downgrade next year when losing Cally for nothing. Also 38 in hockey vs 38 in the NBA isn't quiet as bad.

Right look at Jagr at 43 now that he's in shape

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:this is a great trade if you think the Rangers are contenders. I don't. St. Louis Is 38 years old. He's got this year and next on his contract. Maybe he plays after that, maybe not - probably not. From what I've read, the Rangers had options on the table to get picks/prospects back for Cally. I would have preferred that option instead of the Jimmy D special. What did he get bored with basketball and came in to meddle with the Rangers affairs?

Also, there is a NYR thread in the OT board. I pretty much talk to myself there. It would be nice if others posted there on occasion

I disagree with this view on the trade. Vegas seems to think this makes us better short term, which I found surprising. I think they are contenders as hockey is all about the hot goaltender. Last year was a rare chalk year in the NHL playoffs. The Rangers have the personnel to actually score a few goals for once and if Henrik can get hot, it is not crazy to say they can make a run.

I love what the trade does long term. They were trading for flexibility. They can now choose to do what they want with McDonaugh, Stall, Krieder, Zucs, and their other young talent. In addition, Cally didn't guarantee he would resign anywhere and the guy is on some really good stuff asking for the years/money that he is. You can't pay that kinda money for intangibles. I am a big Cally fan, but this is the right move long term.

I agree that the trade makes us a better team today. As you say, hockey is about a hot goalie. And Lundqvist has had a particularly poor year by his standards.

I think not resigning him was the right move two. But the team could have traded two first rounders for two years of St Louis' service. The team is betting on winning a cup and I don't know if I see this team as a legit cup contender.

St Louis could be like trading for Kobe. But he could be like trading for Steve Nash. I would have preferred to acquire longer term assets

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:this is a great trade if you think the Rangers are contenders. I don't. St. Louis Is 38 years old. He's got this year and next on his contract. Maybe he plays after that, maybe not - probably not. From what I've read, the Rangers had options on the table to get picks/prospects back for Cally. I would have preferred that option instead of the Jimmy D special. What did he get bored with basketball and came in to meddle with the Rangers affairs?

Also, there is a NYR thread in the OT board. I pretty much talk to myself there. It would be nice if others posted there on occasion

I disagree with this view on the trade. Vegas seems to think this makes us better short term, which I found surprising. I think they are contenders as hockey is all about the hot goaltender. Last year was a rare chalk year in the NHL playoffs. The Rangers have the personnel to actually score a few goals for once and if Henrik can get hot, it is not crazy to say they can make a run.

I love what the trade does long term. They were trading for flexibility. They can now choose to do what they want with McDonaugh, Stall, Krieder, Zucs, and their other young talent. In addition, Cally didn't guarantee he would resign anywhere and the guy is on some really good stuff asking for the years/money that he is. You can't pay that kinda money for intangibles. I am a big Cally fan, but this is the right move long term.

Good point on the flexibility. MSL doesn't pan out they have money to spend on a star Center in the offseason. Maybe trade Stefan if he doesn't step up in this system

Seriously, WGAF?

SupremeCommander wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:this is a great trade if you think the Rangers are contenders. I don't. St. Louis Is 38 years old. He's got this year and next on his contract. Maybe he plays after that, maybe not - probably not. From what I've read, the Rangers had options on the table to get picks/prospects back for Cally. I would have preferred that option instead of the Jimmy D special. What did he get bored with basketball and came in to meddle with the Rangers affairs?

Also, there is a NYR thread in the OT board. I pretty much talk to myself there. It would be nice if others posted there on occasion

I disagree with this view on the trade. Vegas seems to think this makes us better short term, which I found surprising. I think they are contenders as hockey is all about the hot goaltender. Last year was a rare chalk year in the NHL playoffs. The Rangers have the personnel to actually score a few goals for once and if Henrik can get hot, it is not crazy to say they can make a run.

I love what the trade does long term. They were trading for flexibility. They can now choose to do what they want with McDonaugh, Stall, Krieder, Zucs, and their other young talent. In addition, Cally didn't guarantee he would resign anywhere and the guy is on some really good stuff asking for the years/money that he is. You can't pay that kinda money for intangibles. I am a big Cally fan, but this is the right move long term.

I agree that the trade makes us a better team today. As you say, hockey is about a hot goalie. And Lundqvist has had a particularly poor year by his standards.

I think not resigning him was the right move two. But the team could have traded two first rounders for two years of St Louis' service. The team is betting on winning a cup and I don't know if I see this team as a legit cup contender.

St Louis could be like trading for Kobe. But he could be like trading for Steve Nash. I would have preferred to acquire longer term assets

Steve nash got injured and fell of the face of the earth. MSL has 29 goals and 38 assists this year and is in superb condition and healthy. He is a dynamic offensive player as we saw lastnight

It's more line trading Tyson for Kobe if Kobe wasn't injured

We will find out how the rangers do without their captain. They did ok whenever he missed time just like the Knicks when their unproductive captain Tyson missed time

The rangers also traded a 5th for Diaz a big defensemen who they previously tied to acquire

gunsnewing wrote:In the past the rangers would sign over the hill former stars and give up every asset like the Knicks. They finally stocked up on their own young talent and it paid off.wish I could say the same for the Knicks

Amen!

gunsnewing wrote:The rangers also traded a 5th for Diaz a big defensemen who they previously tied to acquire

This should address people's concern that they are not physical enough now. I agree witht he Tyson comparison. Many times in the last few years they have been let down with an injury or incognito playoff contribution from Cally. He is also beloved regardless and exempt from any blame or accountability from the fanbase...exactly like Tyson. Cally needs to have thinner legs and throw teammates under the bus then he will actually be Tyson.

gunsnewing wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:this is a great trade if you think the Rangers are contenders. I don't. St. Louis Is 38 years old. He's got this year and next on his contract. Maybe he plays after that, maybe not - probably not. From what I've read, the Rangers had options on the table to get picks/prospects back for Cally. I would have preferred that option instead of the Jimmy D special. What did he get bored with basketball and came in to meddle with the Rangers affairs?

Also, there is a NYR thread in the OT board. I pretty much talk to myself there. It would be nice if others posted there on occasion

I disagree with this view on the trade. Vegas seems to think this makes us better short term, which I found surprising. I think they are contenders as hockey is all about the hot goaltender. Last year was a rare chalk year in the NHL playoffs. The Rangers have the personnel to actually score a few goals for once and if Henrik can get hot, it is not crazy to say they can make a run.

I love what the trade does long term. They were trading for flexibility. They can now choose to do what they want with McDonaugh, Stall, Krieder, Zucs, and their other young talent. In addition, Cally didn't guarantee he would resign anywhere and the guy is on some really good stuff asking for the years/money that he is. You can't pay that kinda money for intangibles. I am a big Cally fan, but this is the right move long term.

I agree that the trade makes us a better team today. As you say, hockey is about a hot goalie. And Lundqvist has had a particularly poor year by his standards.

I think not resigning him was the right move two. But the team could have traded two first rounders for two years of St Louis' service. The team is betting on winning a cup and I don't know if I see this team as a legit cup contender.

St Louis could be like trading for Kobe. But he could be like trading for Steve Nash. I would have preferred to acquire longer term assets

Steve nash got injured and fell of the face of the earth. MSL has 29 goals and 38 assists this year and is in superb condition and healthy. He is a dynamic offensive player as we saw lastnight

It's more line trading Tyson for Kobe if Kobe wasn't injured

Lakers fans seemed pretty happy when they got Steve Nash for a couple of firsts at the time, eh? but good to know you have a crystal ball