we can bring in all the talent in the world, but if you don't have that strong veteran presence in the locker, on the bench or in the game, we will never win close games and have very little shot at a championship..
I brought this up before the season started and most blew it off like the veterans on this team were capable (felton, tyson, melo, amare)but there not, and the lost of 2 or 3 veterans who only played half a season had an enormous effect on this roster.
I always feel like talent is a small part of winning, i think when everyone knows there role, thats 70% of the game plan...
we over came signifacant injuries to Tyson, amare, shump, felton, sheed, and melo (missed 10 games) last season.
So when some of you think the entire roster has to overhual, think about the lack of leadership through out the roster, you think if we bring in young players (like thj) your not going to run in to growing pains..
Melo is not a leader, never was, never will, tyson can be part of the leadership, but he's too much of a crybaby to do it on his own..
Cmon guys, look at who's winning championships..veterans, veterans,veterans
Bottom line is we need a PG, another big time scorer, a coach, and a GM...
I agree. Yea Chandler has seriously disappointed me here. Maybe he's built for a smaller market and the pressure here has gotten to him. NYC ain't for everyone.
We need a leader who can handle distraction, whether internal or external. Someone to pull JR's coat at the club.
Was Jordan a leader?
Melo does need a leader to come in and play with him.
Like Paul Pierce needed one. Nothing wrong with that.
Melo is top 15. Top 15 can't win with crap. Maybe Lebron can but Lebron is Lebron.
Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.
TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.
There were so many variables you can point to as to what went wrong, how can you specifically say it's leadership?
holfresh wrote:TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.
There were so many variables you can point to as to what went wrong, how can you specifically say it's leadership?
JVG has said this numerous times so I will side with him. The knicks terribly lack leadership though there are other reasons why we stink.
holfresh wrote:TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.
There were so many variables you can point to as to what went wrong, how can you specifically say it's leadership?
About every member of the team said as much. I'm also not saying leadership is the only reason but I do think it's the biggest.
TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.
There were so many variables you can point to as to what went wrong, how can you specifically say it's leadership?
About every member of the team said as much. I'm also not saying leadership is the only reason but I do think it's the biggest.
Knicks don't have the talent..We start three guys who aren't NBA starters...Leadership is going make Felton, Shump, and JR play better...Chandler broke his leg and was out 24 games...Felton was out as well...Leadership gonna stop Felton from owning an illegal gun...I don't know..I think we are making excuses..These guys aren't that good...
Who are the leaders in Portland, Indy, Toronto, Houston, GS, etc...This is a different era in the NBA...We overachieved last year...We are making excuses for a team with limited talent...
holfresh wrote:TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.
There were so many variables you can point to as to what went wrong, how can you specifically say it's leadership?
About every member of the team said as much. I'm also not saying leadership is the only reason but I do think it's the biggest.
Knicks don't have the talent..We start three guys who aren't NBA starters...Leadership is going make Felton, Shump, and JR play better...Chandler broke his leg and was out 24 games...Felton was out as well...Leadership gonna stop Felton from owning an illegal gun...I don't know..I think we are making excuses..These guys aren't that good...
Who are the leaders in Portland, Indy, Toronto, Houston, GS, etc...This is a different era in the NBA...We overachieved last year...We are making excuses for a team with limited talent...
You're really taking my point to the extreme for some reason. Leadership helps. It helped last year and it could've very well helped this year. Not once did I say none of the bad things that happened this season happen if we had vets and leadership.
TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.
There were so many variables you can point to as to what went wrong, how can you specifically say it's leadership?
About every member of the team said as much. I'm also not saying leadership is the only reason but I do think it's the biggest.
Knicks don't have the talent..We start three guys who aren't NBA starters...Leadership is going make Felton, Shump, and JR play better...Chandler broke his leg and was out 24 games...Felton was out as well...Leadership gonna stop Felton from owning an illegal gun...I don't know..I think we are making excuses..These guys aren't that good...
Who are the leaders in Portland, Indy, Toronto, Houston, GS, etc...This is a different era in the NBA...We overachieved last year...We are making excuses for a team with limited talent...
You're really taking my point to the extreme for some reason. Leadership helps. It helped last year and it could've very well helped this year. Not once did I say none of the bad things that happened this season happen if we had vets and leadership.
But you said it's the biggest reason, can one get more extreme than that?
holfresh wrote:TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.
There were so many variables you can point to as to what went wrong, how can you specifically say it's leadership?
About every member of the team said as much. I'm also not saying leadership is the only reason but I do think it's the biggest.
Knicks don't have the talent..We start three guys who aren't NBA starters...Leadership is going make Felton, Shump, and JR play better...Chandler broke his leg and was out 24 games...Felton was out as well...Leadership gonna stop Felton from owning an illegal gun...I don't know..I think we are making excuses..These guys aren't that good...
Who are the leaders in Portland, Indy, Toronto, Houston, GS, etc...This is a different era in the NBA...We overachieved last year...We are making excuses for a team with limited talent...
You're really taking my point to the extreme for some reason. Leadership helps. It helped last year and it could've very well helped this year. Not once did I say none of the bad things that happened this season happen if we had vets and leadership.
But you said it's the biggest reason, can one get more extreme than that?
I would think so. If I said it's the one and only reason I'm sure that would be the most extreme I could get.
the point seems to be that strong leadership can make up for many deficiencies - playing smarter, maximizing talent, making clutch stops/plays, composure... while we need more talent and have been hurt by injuries - it seemed Kidd, K.Thomas and even Rasheed provided stability for the knuckleheads on this team (JR, sometimes Shump) last year. It's sad to think that an over the hill Kidd offered so much, but it seems clear the lack of leadership this year. Of course there's no one thing - but without leadership, you're capacity is limited and will almost always lose to teams with leadership. Also on the "must have" list, talent and organizational uniformity (GM and coach united) of course...
holfresh wrote:TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.
There were so many variables you can point to as to what went wrong, how can you specifically say it's leadership?
lol, what a question
because lack of leadership is the reason most of these variables went wrong
holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Bron is a floor leader, Kd/westbrook have not won championships, infact the championship run against the Heat was a complete joke, and they had no real leader on that team. I recall ppl saying westbrook was wasn't a true leader, he shoots to much blah blah. There a talented team, there going win games off of that alone, but not rings.
It's not just a leader, but more of a leadership, you need 3 or 4 guys on the team that are about there business, professional, know there role and set an example.
We have some talented guys on this team, there just not focus. Blowing 15 2nd half leads, 1-7 in games decided by 3 or less, countless afternoon games where it looks like more than half the team stayed up partying til 5am...It's there mental approach to the game is all fck up..
We don't need a 2nd scorer, we need guys thats going to get other guys good shots,share the rock play hard and smart, communicate.
knicks1248 wrote:holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Bron is a floor leader, Kd/westbrook have not won championships, infact the championship run against the Heat was a complete joke, and they had no real leader on that team. I recall ppl saying westbrook was wasn't a true leader, he shoots to much blah blah. There a talented team, there going win games off of that alone, but not rings.
It's not just a leader, but more of a leadership, you need 3 or 4 guys on the team that are about there business, professional, know there role and set an example.
We have some talented guys on this team, there just not focus. Blowing 15 2nd half leads, 1-7 in games decided by 3 or less, countless afternoon games where it looks like more than half the team stayed up partying til 5am...It's there mental approach to the game is all fck up..
We don't need a 2nd scorer, we need guys thats going to get other guys good shots,share the rock play hard and smart, communicate.
Who is our "talented guyS"?
We have one talent and a bunch of scrubs.
holfresh wrote:TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:TeamBall wrote:holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Saying we need a leader isn't the same as saying that every team needs a leader. For this specific team, we saw what happened when we had leadership/veteran presence last year.
There were so many variables you can point to as to what went wrong, how can you specifically say it's leadership?
About every member of the team said as much. I'm also not saying leadership is the only reason but I do think it's the biggest.
Knicks don't have the talent..We start three guys who aren't NBA starters...Leadership is going make Felton, Shump, and JR play better...Chandler broke his leg and was out 24 games...Felton was out as well...Leadership gonna stop Felton from owning an illegal gun...I don't know..I think we are making excuses..These guys aren't that good...
Who are the leaders in Portland, Indy, Toronto, Houston, GS, etc...This is a different era in the NBA...We overachieved last year...We are making excuses for a team with limited talent...
Those guys have talent and you have seen them play extremely well. You know whats the true difference between brons leadership qualities and melo's, Bron makes players around him play unselfish, just by the way he plays, Melo's the complete opposite.
Why are you pointing out teams that haven't won anything but a few regular season games.
mreinman wrote:knicks1248 wrote:holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Bron is a floor leader, Kd/westbrook have not won championships, infact the championship run against the Heat was a complete joke, and they had no real leader on that team. I recall ppl saying westbrook was wasn't a true leader, he shoots to much blah blah. There a talented team, there going win games off of that alone, but not rings.
It's not just a leader, but more of a leadership, you need 3 or 4 guys on the team that are about there business, professional, know there role and set an example.
We have some talented guys on this team, there just not focus. Blowing 15 2nd half leads, 1-7 in games decided by 3 or less, countless afternoon games where it looks like more than half the team stayed up partying til 5am...It's there mental approach to the game is all fck up..
We don't need a 2nd scorer, we need guys thats going to get other guys good shots,share the rock play hard and smart, communicate.
Who is our "talented guyS"?
We have one talent and a bunch of scrubs.
Scrubs? your talking about JR, who won the 6th man award last season, or felton who led this team to a 54 win season, or tyson who was DPOY less the 2 yrs ago, what about shump who every other Gm wanted to rob NY for..We have no one to lead by example, no one to keep guys focus, and a coach who needs major help from his pg and coaching staff
knicks1248 wrote:mreinman wrote:knicks1248 wrote:holfresh wrote:Leader stuff is overrated..Bron isn't a leader and is getting it done..Durant/Westbrook aren't leaders and are getting it done...
Bron is a floor leader, Kd/westbrook have not won championships, infact the championship run against the Heat was a complete joke, and they had no real leader on that team. I recall ppl saying westbrook was wasn't a true leader, he shoots to much blah blah. There a talented team, there going win games off of that alone, but not rings.
It's not just a leader, but more of a leadership, you need 3 or 4 guys on the team that are about there business, professional, know there role and set an example.
We have some talented guys on this team, there just not focus. Blowing 15 2nd half leads, 1-7 in games decided by 3 or less, countless afternoon games where it looks like more than half the team stayed up partying til 5am...It's there mental approach to the game is all fck up..
We don't need a 2nd scorer, we need guys thats going to get other guys good shots,share the rock play hard and smart, communicate.
Who is our "talented guyS"?
We have one talent and a bunch of scrubs.
Scrubs? your talking about JR, who won the 6th man award last season, or felton who led this team to a 54 win season, or tyson who was DPOY less the 2 yrs ago, what about shump who every other Gm wanted to rob NY for..We have no one to lead by example, no one to keep guys focus, and a coach who needs major help from his pg and coaching staff
JR sucks - thats why he gets paid what he gets (by - of course only the knicks)
Felton sucks - thats why he gets paid what he gets (by - of course only the knicks)
Chandler?? - who offered him big money besides the knicks? Who?
Are you happy that we Amnestied CB and got Stiff Chandler?
