Marcala12 wrote:dk7th wrote:being 5 games back, really 6 games back, in the loss column with 15 games left is not a hurdle that will be overcome.i see 5-10 for them, ideally 10-5. 10-5 puts them exactly where the schoene prediction model put them. maybe they end up going 7-8 which puts them at 34-48
even if the knick go 10-5 atlanta can go 7-10 and still get the 8th seed.
how accurate was the schone prediction model for the knicks last year troll?
Maybe we should start accepting that last year was just an outlier. If I make no mistake, a lot of our players had a far above average career % year in 3pt shooting, which our playstyle relied a lot on.
And this troll name calling is starting to be out of control.
This forum used to be a place where posters respected others, even when they disagreed.
Martin, Andrew, are you fine with posters blatantly calling others ''troll''?
Look, some people don't like Melo a lot, I'm in that group. I don't hate the guy, I just think paying him too with his mileage is asking for a new amare, houston etc. And also I don't like players who take time off on D.
Coming back to you, I don't call you troll because you say otherwise, so don't act like this because you're on the web.
Diverse opinions is what a forum is made of and is made for. If you only want to talk to people agreeing with you, why not starting your own website?
smackeddog wrote:callmened wrote:i have a legit question...what is the POINT in making the playoffs?if anything it will cloud things and dolan might start thinking: maybe woody wasnt so bad after all...or we have good players, no need to make changes
id rather call this season a wash and avoid getting annihilated in the 1st rd
For me it avoids the humiliation of handing Denver the no 1 pick. As much as I hate Dolan, it's Knick fans who will never hear the end of it.
Plus looking at the Pacers recent wobble, you never know what might happen come playoff time.
As for me, if the Knicks arent going to get out of the first round, I hope they give up a very high pick to Denver, in the slim chance the Dummy Dolan finally learns his lesson about giving away unprotected picks.
raven wrote:Marcala12 wrote:dk7th wrote:being 5 games back, really 6 games back, in the loss column with 15 games left is not a hurdle that will be overcome.i see 5-10 for them, ideally 10-5. 10-5 puts them exactly where the schoene prediction model put them. maybe they end up going 7-8 which puts them at 34-48
even if the knick go 10-5 atlanta can go 7-10 and still get the 8th seed.
how accurate was the schone prediction model for the knicks last year troll?
Maybe we should start accepting that last year was just an outlier. If I make no mistake, a lot of our players had a far above average career % year in 3pt shooting, which our playstyle relied a lot on.
And this troll name calling is starting to be out of control.
This forum used to be a place where posters respected others, even when they disagreed.
Martin, Andrew, are you fine with posters blatantly calling others ''troll''?
Look, some people don't like Melo a lot, I'm in that group. I don't hate the guy, I just think paying him too with his mileage is asking for a new amare, houston etc. And also I don't like players who take time off on D.
Coming back to you, I don't call you troll because you say otherwise, so don't act like this because you're on the web.
Diverse opinions is what a forum is made of and is made for. If you only want to talk to people agreeing with you, why not starting your own website?
dk/tfk is absolutely a troll; just as you are absolutely a pu$$y for trying to get the mods in on the thread. might i remind you that dk said Melo and Gallo should get paid the same.
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Marcala12 wrote:dk7th wrote:being 5 games back, really 6 games back, in the loss column with 15 games left is not a hurdle that will be overcome.i see 5-10 for them, ideally 10-5. 10-5 puts them exactly where the schoene prediction model put them. maybe they end up going 7-8 which puts them at 34-48
even if the knick go 10-5 atlanta can go 7-10 and still get the 8th seed.
how accurate was the schone prediction model for the knicks last year troll?
how does this make me a troll. i don't know what the schoene model predicted the previous season. provide a jump and we can chat.
I'll help you guys out. Schoene predicted 45 wins for the knicks in 2012-13.
prediction models, i believe are based on statistical means and trends over time. therefore anything that exceeds the statistical mean in a positive way and at the same time bucks the trend in a positive way will yield a result that exceeds the win prediction.
do you understand this?
now as i have been saying, kidd's influence on the team and rasheed's influence played a huge role in the knicks achieving the record they did around 25-30 games in. when those two started to falter the knicks regressed to around .500 ball and performed like a .500 team in the playoffs.
another factor to their success was prigioni's eventual emergence later in the season-- i don't think the prediction model could have incorporated a rookie foreign player's influence on the team, but i may be wrong about that.
lastly, the team as a whole, including anthony, shot the three above expectations vis a vis statistical means and trends.
these are the main factors as to why they accumulated the inflated record during the jayvee season.
take away kidd and add bargani and you essentially have a rudderless and incoherent mess on your hands. and then there's the absolutely horrible proclamation by melo of wanting to test free agency that exacerbated the 37-win prediction further.
so how much should melo be offered to stay a knick? i say 12-13 million.
what do you say?
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Marcala12 wrote:dk7th wrote:being 5 games back, really 6 games back, in the loss column with 15 games left is not a hurdle that will be overcome.i see 5-10 for them, ideally 10-5. 10-5 puts them exactly where the schoene prediction model put them. maybe they end up going 7-8 which puts them at 34-48
even if the knick go 10-5 atlanta can go 7-10 and still get the 8th seed.
how accurate was the schone prediction model for the knicks last year troll?
how does this make me a troll. i don't know what the schoene model predicted the previous season. provide a jump and we can chat.
I'll help you guys out. Schoene predicted 45 wins for the knicks in 2012-13.
prediction models, i believe are based on statistical means and trends over time. therefore anything that exceeds the statistical mean in a positive way and at the same time bucks the trend in a positive way will yield a result that exceeds the win prediction.
do you understand this?
now as i have been saying, kidd's influence on the team and rasheed's influence played a huge role in the knicks achieving the record they did around 25-30 games in. when those two started to falter the knicks regressed to around .500 ball and performed like a .500 team in the playoffs.
another factor to their success was prigioni's eventual emergence later in the season-- i don't think the prediction model could have incorporated a rookie foreign player's influence on the team, but i may be wrong about that.
lastly, the team as a whole, including anthony, shot the three above expectations vis a vis statistical means and trends.
these are the main factors as to why they accumulated the inflated record during the jayvee season.
take away kidd and add bargani and you essentially have a rudderless and incoherent mess on your hands. and then there's the absolutely horrible proclamation by melo of wanting to test free agency that exacerbated the 37-win prediction further.
so how much should melo be offered to stay a knick? i say 12-13 million.
what do you say?
Melo is a max player. You seem to be the only person (ok 2nd person) who doesn't understand this. Do you even work for a living? Can you go to your boss and demand more money then someone elseon your team that is more productive under the justification of efficiency stats? No... You get paid what the market dictates. Go tell your boss the most productive member of your team is over paid and ask for some of his salary.
Melo is a max player because there aren't ten guys in world who can do what he does and because that is what clubs will pay him. But in your universe gallo is a better player for the money. Your hatred for s player you don't even watch is out there.
fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Marcala12 wrote:dk7th wrote:being 5 games back, really 6 games back, in the loss column with 15 games left is not a hurdle that will be overcome.i see 5-10 for them, ideally 10-5. 10-5 puts them exactly where the schoene prediction model put them. maybe they end up going 7-8 which puts them at 34-48
even if the knick go 10-5 atlanta can go 7-10 and still get the 8th seed.
how accurate was the schone prediction model for the knicks last year troll?
how does this make me a troll. i don't know what the schoene model predicted the previous season. provide a jump and we can chat.
I'll help you guys out. Schoene predicted 45 wins for the knicks in 2012-13.
prediction models, i believe are based on statistical means and trends over time. therefore anything that exceeds the statistical mean in a positive way and at the same time bucks the trend in a positive way will yield a result that exceeds the win prediction.
do you understand this?
now as i have been saying, kidd's influence on the team and rasheed's influence played a huge role in the knicks achieving the record they did around 25-30 games in. when those two started to falter the knicks regressed to around .500 ball and performed like a .500 team in the playoffs.
another factor to their success was prigioni's eventual emergence later in the season-- i don't think the prediction model could have incorporated a rookie foreign player's influence on the team, but i may be wrong about that.
lastly, the team as a whole, including anthony, shot the three above expectations vis a vis statistical means and trends.
these are the main factors as to why they accumulated the inflated record during the jayvee season.
take away kidd and add bargani and you essentially have a rudderless and incoherent mess on your hands. and then there's the absolutely horrible proclamation by melo of wanting to test free agency that exacerbated the 37-win prediction further.
so how much should melo be offered to stay a knick? i say 12-13 million.
what do you say?
Melo is a max player. You seem to be the only person (ok 2nd person) who doesn't understand this. Do you even work for a living? Can you go to your boss and demand more money then someone elseon your team that is more productive under the justification of efficiency stats? No... You get paid what the market dictates. Go tell your boss the most productive member of your team is over paid and ask for some of his salary. Melo is a max player because there aren't ten guys in world who can do what he does and because that is what clubs will pay him. But in your universe gallo is a better player for the money. Your hatred for s player you don't even watch is out there.
okay and should jackson end up paying melo max money then? how much should his final salary be?
Panos wrote:smackeddog wrote:callmened wrote:i have a legit question...what is the POINT in making the playoffs?if anything it will cloud things and dolan might start thinking: maybe woody wasnt so bad after all...or we have good players, no need to make changes
id rather call this season a wash and avoid getting annihilated in the 1st rd
For me it avoids the humiliation of handing Denver the no 1 pick. As much as I hate Dolan, it's Knick fans who will never hear the end of it.
Plus looking at the Pacers recent wobble, you never know what might happen come playoff time.
As for me, if the Knicks arent going to get out of the first round, I hope they give up a very high pick to Denver, in the slim chance the Dummy Dolan finally learns his lesson about giving away unprotected picks.
Been there, done that- he doesn't learn. We gave up LaMarcus Aldridge AND Joakim Noah due to not protecting our picks. He still went ahead and traded two unprotected firsts to Denver.
dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Marcala12 wrote:dk7th wrote:being 5 games back, really 6 games back, in the loss column with 15 games left is not a hurdle that will be overcome.i see 5-10 for them, ideally 10-5. 10-5 puts them exactly where the schoene prediction model put them. maybe they end up going 7-8 which puts them at 34-48
even if the knick go 10-5 atlanta can go 7-10 and still get the 8th seed.
how accurate was the schone prediction model for the knicks last year troll?
how does this make me a troll. i don't know what the schoene model predicted the previous season. provide a jump and we can chat.
I'll help you guys out. Schoene predicted 45 wins for the knicks in 2012-13.
prediction models, i believe are based on statistical means and trends over time. therefore anything that exceeds the statistical mean in a positive way and at the same time bucks the trend in a positive way will yield a result that exceeds the win prediction.
do you understand this?
now as i have been saying, kidd's influence on the team and rasheed's influence played a huge role in the knicks achieving the record they did around 25-30 games in. when those two started to falter the knicks regressed to around .500 ball and performed like a .500 team in the playoffs.
another factor to their success was prigioni's eventual emergence later in the season-- i don't think the prediction model could have incorporated a rookie foreign player's influence on the team, but i may be wrong about that.
lastly, the team as a whole, including anthony, shot the three above expectations vis a vis statistical means and trends.
these are the main factors as to why they accumulated the inflated record during the jayvee season.
take away kidd and add bargani and you essentially have a rudderless and incoherent mess on your hands. and then there's the absolutely horrible proclamation by melo of wanting to test free agency that exacerbated the 37-win prediction further.
so how much should melo be offered to stay a knick? i say 12-13 million.
what do you say?
Melo is a max player. You seem to be the only person (ok 2nd person) who doesn't understand this. Do you even work for a living? Can you go to your boss and demand more money then someone elseon your team that is more productive under the justification of efficiency stats? No... You get paid what the market dictates. Go tell your boss the most productive member of your team is over paid and ask for some of his salary. Melo is a max player because there aren't ten guys in world who can do what he does and because that is what clubs will pay him. But in your universe gallo is a better player for the money. Your hatred for s player you don't even watch is out there.
okay and should jackson end up paying melo max money then? how much should his final salary be?
i suspect he gets something between the max if he stays vs the max if goes. I would not rule out a sing and trade which will be at max money because Melo is a max player and there is a market for him. Its gonna be one max or another. Let go of the this $12 mm notion. It has no basis in reality
fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Marcala12 wrote:dk7th wrote:being 5 games back, really 6 games back, in the loss column with 15 games left is not a hurdle that will be overcome.i see 5-10 for them, ideally 10-5. 10-5 puts them exactly where the schoene prediction model put them. maybe they end up going 7-8 which puts them at 34-48
even if the knick go 10-5 atlanta can go 7-10 and still get the 8th seed.
how accurate was the schone prediction model for the knicks last year troll?
how does this make me a troll. i don't know what the schoene model predicted the previous season. provide a jump and we can chat.
I'll help you guys out. Schoene predicted 45 wins for the knicks in 2012-13.
prediction models, i believe are based on statistical means and trends over time. therefore anything that exceeds the statistical mean in a positive way and at the same time bucks the trend in a positive way will yield a result that exceeds the win prediction.
do you understand this?
now as i have been saying, kidd's influence on the team and rasheed's influence played a huge role in the knicks achieving the record they did around 25-30 games in. when those two started to falter the knicks regressed to around .500 ball and performed like a .500 team in the playoffs.
another factor to their success was prigioni's eventual emergence later in the season-- i don't think the prediction model could have incorporated a rookie foreign player's influence on the team, but i may be wrong about that.
lastly, the team as a whole, including anthony, shot the three above expectations vis a vis statistical means and trends.
these are the main factors as to why they accumulated the inflated record during the jayvee season.
take away kidd and add bargani and you essentially have a rudderless and incoherent mess on your hands. and then there's the absolutely horrible proclamation by melo of wanting to test free agency that exacerbated the 37-win prediction further.
so how much should melo be offered to stay a knick? i say 12-13 million.
what do you say?
Melo is a max player. You seem to be the only person (ok 2nd person) who doesn't understand this. Do you even work for a living? Can you go to your boss and demand more money then someone elseon your team that is more productive under the justification of efficiency stats? No... You get paid what the market dictates. Go tell your boss the most productive member of your team is over paid and ask for some of his salary. Melo is a max player because there aren't ten guys in world who can do what he does and because that is what clubs will pay him. But in your universe gallo is a better player for the money. Your hatred for s player you don't even watch is out there.
okay and should jackson end up paying melo max money then? how much should his final salary be?
i suspect he gets something between the max if he stays vs the max if goes. I would not rule out a sing and trade which will be at max money because Melo is a max player and there is a market for him. Its gonna be one max or another. Let go of the this $12 mm notion. It has no basis in reality
dude put the bong down.... i was not asking for a prediction! i am asking how much YOU believe he is worth to the knicks!
dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Marcala12 wrote:dk7th wrote:being 5 games back, really 6 games back, in the loss column with 15 games left is not a hurdle that will be overcome.i see 5-10 for them, ideally 10-5. 10-5 puts them exactly where the schoene prediction model put them. maybe they end up going 7-8 which puts them at 34-48
even if the knick go 10-5 atlanta can go 7-10 and still get the 8th seed.
how accurate was the schone prediction model for the knicks last year troll?
how does this make me a troll. i don't know what the schoene model predicted the previous season. provide a jump and we can chat.
I'll help you guys out. Schoene predicted 45 wins for the knicks in 2012-13.
prediction models, i believe are based on statistical means and trends over time. therefore anything that exceeds the statistical mean in a positive way and at the same time bucks the trend in a positive way will yield a result that exceeds the win prediction.
do you understand this?
now as i have been saying, kidd's influence on the team and rasheed's influence played a huge role in the knicks achieving the record they did around 25-30 games in. when those two started to falter the knicks regressed to around .500 ball and performed like a .500 team in the playoffs.
another factor to their success was prigioni's eventual emergence later in the season-- i don't think the prediction model could have incorporated a rookie foreign player's influence on the team, but i may be wrong about that.
lastly, the team as a whole, including anthony, shot the three above expectations vis a vis statistical means and trends.
these are the main factors as to why they accumulated the inflated record during the jayvee season.
take away kidd and add bargani and you essentially have a rudderless and incoherent mess on your hands. and then there's the absolutely horrible proclamation by melo of wanting to test free agency that exacerbated the 37-win prediction further.
so how much should melo be offered to stay a knick? i say 12-13 million.
what do you say?
Melo is a max player. You seem to be the only person (ok 2nd person) who doesn't understand this. Do you even work for a living? Can you go to your boss and demand more money then someone elseon your team that is more productive under the justification of efficiency stats? No... You get paid what the market dictates. Go tell your boss the most productive member of your team is over paid and ask for some of his salary. Melo is a max player because there aren't ten guys in world who can do what he does and because that is what clubs will pay him. But in your universe gallo is a better player for the money. Your hatred for s player you don't even watch is out there.
okay and should jackson end up paying melo max money then? how much should his final salary be?
i suspect he gets something between the max if he stays vs the max if goes. I would not rule out a sing and trade which will be at max money because Melo is a max player and there is a market for him. Its gonna be one max or another. Let go of the this $12 mm notion. It has no basis in reality
dude put the bong down.... i was not asking for a prediction! i am asking how much YOU believe he is worth to the knicks!
Depends on what the plan is? That is your problem. You think this number exists in a vacuum. Is the plan to make the playoffs every year? Is the plan to build the current assets value for a rebuild in near future? Is the plan reboot and try for another big three when most of the current roster expires end of net year?
Do you understand that all these scenarios which have a basis in reality impact what Melos dollar value is to the knicks?
Also do you understand what dollar value actually means? And why these guys often get paid what is perceived as too much? Are you aware of economics? Market? Loss value?
You say $13mm is Melos value to the Knicks. But that's not what determines his salary and why debates with you spiral into retardation. There are three numbers GMs work with.
1)What they perceive as a players value to them
2)what they perceive as players market value
3)what they view as most they will pay vs losing that player for nothing.
So... You want to talk reality and have a real discussion on this subject why don't you play Phil Jackson and assign a dollar value to each of those three #s.
i have been working with only scenario that matters: the goal being to win a title with melo as a member of the knicks. now that clearly was not dolan's original goal-- but now with winning in mind he is worth 12-13 million to the knicks. and that is what jackson should offer him. if he says no then you let him walk. so far as your other "choices" they are red herrings, the sole purpose of which is to create some sort of phantom leverage for melo going in to a negotiation.
Atlanta wins again--comes back from double digits to win by 17. The odds for the Knicks are becoming extraordinarily low.
BRIGGS wrote:Atlanta wins again--comes back from double digits to win by 17. The odds for the Knicks are becoming extraordinarily low.
Knicks are going to have to win out. That is the only way they make the playoffs.
Vmart wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Atlanta wins again--comes back from double digits to win by 17. The odds for the Knicks are becoming extraordinarily low.
Knicks are going to have to win out. That is the only way they make the playoffs.
they need to win, yes, but that have to hope for the Hawks to lose games. Charlotte is probably one of the games I thought they would win - optimistic is the Hawks finishing with 35 wins. We need to get to 36 - 9 & 6. Doable, yes.
Do the Hawks only get to 35? That might be the stretch.
dk7th wrote:i have been working with only scenario that matters: the goal being to win a title with melo as a member of the knicks. now that clearly was not dolan's original goal-- but now with winning in mind he is worth 12-13 million to the knicks. and that is what jackson should offer him. if he says no then you let him walk. so far as your other "choices" they are red herrings, the sole purpose of which is to create some sort of phantom leverage for melo going in to a negotiation.
I knew you would dodge my question and avoid saying anything of substance. Chickpoop. That's you. Answer my three simple questions. It's just your opinion. Go on record like you have a pair
fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:i have been working with only scenario that matters: the goal being to win a title with melo as a member of the knicks. now that clearly was not dolan's original goal-- but now with winning in mind he is worth 12-13 million to the knicks. and that is what jackson should offer him. if he says no then you let him walk. so far as your other "choices" they are red herrings, the sole purpose of which is to create some sort of phantom leverage for melo going in to a negotiation.
I knew you would dodge my question and avoid saying anything of substance. Chickpoop. That's you. Answer my three simple questions. It's just your opinion. Go on record like you have a pair
as i said you are on tilt. but what the hell i'll waste some more time educating you.
your second choice is utterly irrelevant. market value is a variable that melo will want to bring to the table. the knicks-- phil jackson-- will not care about what melo thinks he can get paid on the market-- that would be negotiating against themselves in terms of what they want which is to win-- jackson wasn't brought in to lick dolan's boots. dolan is notorious for negotiating against himself but only because he doesn't care about winning.
your third choice is utter nonsense as well. it's based on the assumption that the new front office will not recognize value versus price. walsh did and he was canned because he did not want to overpay for anthony. dolan did and here we are in this shit show. melo has value but his price is too high. therefore the only price that makes sense for the knicks is the one that fits into their plans, which brings us back to point one-- the only point that is relevant here.
don't worry... time will show the wiser.
ask valid questions and you will get straight answers. spew gobbledygook and expect to be forced to think differently.
Atlanta wins 5th in a row
wow. how the hell did toronto with a +500 record lose to atlanta on their second game of a back to back. ridiculous. jackson hope you brought a rabbit foot with you.
Like I said the Knicks are going to have to win out. Which is a lot to ask for.
if the knicks win tomorrow, i have faith. if the knicks lose tomorrow, we are pretty much done.
Cartman718 wrote:fishmike wrote:pretty simple.. If ATL goes 10-10 over their remaining 20 Knicks need to go 13-4
fish... ATL will not go 10-10 with those many teams over 500. knowing atlanta hawks... they're imploding. more like 5-15, i'd imagine.
well since this thread the hawks have gone 4-0, are you still holding to this prediction? they would have to go 1-15.....It seems like some of you don't watch other teams around the league.. the Hawks were a 3rd seed for about a third of the season. they lost Horford and then they lost milsap for a good stretch in which they lost 14 of 15 games, and guess who that one win came against? yep, the knicks...
since milsap has been back, the hawks have gone 5-0...
