Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Anji wrote:LOL, got to give you credit Mikey, you said if he played well you would stop the nit picking and you have.
Like Im some kinda MElo lover... I killed the guy after the trade and especially that first full year. He's played better. He's given what a max player should. He's improved. He's not Durant or Lebron. I never killed Ewing for not being Hakeem. Not gonna start now.We have three guys who dont watch basketball blasting every thread with knocks on the guy... from 4 years ago. (Yawn)
At this point I just respond in kind. Garbage in garbage out.
Yeah, you used to be fair about Melo and now you still mention he's not Lebron (as if that gives you some kind of credibility). But then you won't listen to anything other than pure Melo love. I've even called him a legit all-star worthy of being close to the ESPN ranking of top 20 but anything short of Melo being a magical superstar just isn't enough for you. And it's surprising, I watch about 20% of the time but I'm clearly seeing more in that 20% than you see in your 100% or whatever your # is. Trust me, if you think hate is coming from the 3 of us, you've been shielding yourself from what many actually say about him.
magical superstar? you seem to have that confused with "average volume shooter"
I dont believe when we got Melo he was a top 10 player. Now he is. Did he finish 3rd in MVP last year? Did he beat out TFK/DK's biggest hardon player Paul George in the All NBA team voting? Yes he did.
But yea.. your objective.
Have I flamed Guns? Franco? Your funny dude... lots of people around here dont love Melo and I seem to be OK having discussions with what they see, because they actually watch.
Basketball is a flow game. A game of momentum. A game of runs... When a guy starts shooting 0-7 then lights up after and you look at his box score like you have a clue how the game played out. Nobody cares about that... sorry if that bugs you.
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Anji wrote:LOL, got to give you credit Mikey, you said if he played well you would stop the nit picking and you have.
Like Im some kinda MElo lover... I killed the guy after the trade and especially that first full year. He's played better. He's given what a max player should. He's improved. He's not Durant or Lebron. I never killed Ewing for not being Hakeem. Not gonna start now.We have three guys who dont watch basketball blasting every thread with knocks on the guy... from 4 years ago. (Yawn)
At this point I just respond in kind. Garbage in garbage out.
Yeah, you used to be fair about Melo and now you still mention he's not Lebron (as if that gives you some kind of credibility). But then you won't listen to anything other than pure Melo love. I've even called him a legit all-star worthy of being close to the ESPN ranking of top 20 but anything short of Melo being a magical superstar just isn't enough for you. And it's surprising, I watch about 20% of the time but I'm clearly seeing more in that 20% than you see in your 100% or whatever your # is. Trust me, if you think hate is coming from the 3 of us, you've been shielding yourself from what many actually say about him.
magical superstar? you seem to have that confused with "average volume shooter"I dont believe when we got Melo he was a top 10 player. Now he is. Did he finish 3rd in MVP last year? Did he beat out TFK/DK's biggest hardon player Paul George in the All NBA team voting? Yes he did.
But yea.. your objective.
Have I flamed Guns? Franco? Your funny dude... lots of people around here dont love Melo and I seem to be OK having discussions with what they see, because they actually watch.
Basketball is a flow game. A game of momentum. A game of runs... When a guy starts shooting 0-7 then lights up after and you look at his box score like you have a clue how the game played out. Nobody cares about that... sorry if that bugs you.
Well you are flaming. It may be the first time but you got something right.
Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Anji wrote:LOL, got to give you credit Mikey, you said if he played well you would stop the nit picking and you have.
Like Im some kinda MElo lover... I killed the guy after the trade and especially that first full year. He's played better. He's given what a max player should. He's improved. He's not Durant or Lebron. I never killed Ewing for not being Hakeem. Not gonna start now.We have three guys who dont watch basketball blasting every thread with knocks on the guy... from 4 years ago. (Yawn)
At this point I just respond in kind. Garbage in garbage out.
Yeah, you used to be fair about Melo and now you still mention he's not Lebron (as if that gives you some kind of credibility). But then you won't listen to anything other than pure Melo love. I've even called him a legit all-star worthy of being close to the ESPN ranking of top 20 but anything short of Melo being a magical superstar just isn't enough for you. And it's surprising, I watch about 20% of the time but I'm clearly seeing more in that 20% than you see in your 100% or whatever your # is. Trust me, if you think hate is coming from the 3 of us, you've been shielding yourself from what many actually say about him.
magical superstar? you seem to have that confused with "average volume shooter"I dont believe when we got Melo he was a top 10 player. Now he is. Did he finish 3rd in MVP last year? Did he beat out TFK/DK's biggest hardon player Paul George in the All NBA team voting? Yes he did.
But yea.. your objective.
Have I flamed Guns? Franco? Your funny dude... lots of people around here dont love Melo and I seem to be OK having discussions with what they see, because they actually watch.
Basketball is a flow game. A game of momentum. A game of runs... When a guy starts shooting 0-7 then lights up after and you look at his box score like you have a clue how the game played out. Nobody cares about that... sorry if that bugs you.
Well you are flaming. It may be the first time but you got something right.
I bet you wont bookmark that one
dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:NYKBocker wrote:I don't really see Melo as a triangle type player. You need a willing passer and an ability to play well away from the ball. Both attributes that Melo does not possess. Big Chief Triangle needs to trade Melo for assets in the offseason assuming Melo does not opt out. If Melo stays then PJax needs to find the right system to build around Melo. This means a PG that can create. A SG that can hit the open 3. Another forward that is long that can switch with Melo between the 3 and 4. A stretch 5 that can rebound.
honestly do you only look at assist #s? Have you not been watching? How can you say Melo isnt a willing passer and also say you have watched him very much at all in the last two years?
Maybe he's watching more closely than you are! It looks like your eyeball assessment is malfunctioning again. They actually record this data now. Melo has 6.4 assist opportunities (passes that lead to shot attempts) per game, which barely places him in the top 100. For someone who leads the league in usage (meaning he has the ball in his hands more than anyone else in the league), that number is shocking. And before you bring up the "hockey assist" argument, note that he's averaging only 0.6 secondary assists ("hockey assists") per game. He's barely in the top 100 for total passes too (that's assist opportunity passes and any additional passes).
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingPassi...
Bonn.. not sure if you realized as I know you never watch, but there is actual basketball played before the final pass that leads to a score.For example... last game Melo, Prigs, JR and Shump are all on the wing with Cole in the middle. Melo passes on a 3 and swings the ball to Shump who swings it to Prigs who swings it JR who swings it back to Shump who swings it back to Melo who ends up with a better shot. Now was Melo ball hogging there? Was Melo willing to pass (thus making him a willing passer)? Yes he was.
Can you show me the stats on actual passes? Like how many times he has the ball and passes? It appears your data is incomplete
the first twenty minutes of the game they played the right way and it was how they built a comfortable lead against a team with a worse record. it was after that when the offensive cohesion evaporated. i was tracking the bad shots melo took and you can imagine that those bad shots contributed to the breakdown. did they win in spite of that? yes. against the celtics. BFD
can you use your internal eyeballs and imagine the same breakdown occurring against a title contender? what happens then?
easy. We would lose, and you and TFK and Bonn can lather each other up in vaseline and go streaking through the quad. Im pretty sure thats what would happen.Knicks come out against an inferior team in a must win game, Melo hits every shot, opens up a huge lead the best you have is to look at how they played in extended garbage time and say that wouldnt work against a better team. Your the only guy who looks to give you team "moral losses"
Heeee-haw dude.
and by the way your attempts at mocking humor are.not.funny.
It sure as hell made me laugh. Vaseline streaking in the quad. Priceless.
Fish for President!
gunsnewing wrote:The problem with that is basketball is a team game. You win playing as a team. Knicks don't play that way until recently that's why we have a .380 win percentage
And the problem is if your team suhucks, you can play as a team all you want. You still suhuck.
In the past 5 games, we suddenly have other people on the team.
That's why Chicago is winning with far less talent right?
gunsnewing wrote:That's why Chicago is winning with far less talent right?
Is that collective talent or individual talent? You can argue Noah > Melo. Even if you have Noah(top 3 center, maybe 1) slightly below Melo it could be argued they have better talent. It's like they have a better version of every position except Melo. Noah > Tyson, Boozer > STAT(health), Taj(K-Mart,Tyler, Aldrich), Dunleavy > THJR, Butler > Shump , Hinrich > Felton, Augustin > Jr/Prigs(depending if you look at 6th man or back up Pg).
Less talent but their players buy into the coaches system
their players hit shots and play defense since the beginning of the season too.
First it's the talent, now it's the coach.
Leave your simple point alone.
Put Melo on a good team with Thibs and maybe we'd be the 4th or 5th seed too.
Bonn1997 wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:NYKBocker wrote:I don't really see Melo as a triangle type player. You need a willing passer and an ability to play well away from the ball. Both attributes that Melo does not possess. Big Chief Triangle needs to trade Melo for assets in the offseason assuming Melo does not opt out. If Melo stays then PJax needs to find the right system to build around Melo. This means a PG that can create. A SG that can hit the open 3. Another forward that is long that can switch with Melo between the 3 and 4. A stretch 5 that can rebound.
honestly do you only look at assist #s? Have you not been watching? How can you say Melo isnt a willing passer and also say you have watched him very much at all in the last two years?
Maybe he's watching more closely than you are! It looks like your eyeball assessment is malfunctioning again. They actually record this data now. Melo has 6.4 assist opportunities (passes that lead to shot attempts) per game, which barely places him in the top 100. For someone who leads the league in usage (meaning he has the ball in his hands more than anyone else in the league), that number is shocking. And before you bring up the "hockey assist" argument, note that he's averaging only 0.6 secondary assists ("hockey assists") per game. He's barely in the top 100 for total passes too (that's assist opportunity passes and any additional passes).
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingPassi...
Bonn.. not sure if you realized as I know you never watch, but there is actual basketball played before the final pass that leads to a score.For example... last game Melo, Prigs, JR and Shump are all on the wing with Cole in the middle. Melo passes on a 3 and swings the ball to Shump who swings it to Prigs who swings it JR who swings it back to Shump who swings it back to Melo who ends up with a better shot. Now was Melo ball hogging there? Was Melo willing to pass (thus making him a willing passer)? Yes he was.
Can you show me the stats on actual passes? Like how many times he has the ball and passes? It appears your data is incomplete
the first twenty minutes of the game they played the right way and it was how they built a comfortable lead against a team with a worse record. it was after that when the offensive cohesion evaporated. i was tracking the bad shots melo took and you can imagine that those bad shots contributed to the breakdown. did they win in spite of that? yes. against the celtics. BFD
can you use your internal eyeballs and imagine the same breakdown occurring against a title contender? what happens then?
easy. We would lose, and you and TFK and Bonn can lather each other up in vaseline and go streaking through the quad. Im pretty sure thats what would happen.Knicks come out against an inferior team in a must win game, Melo hits every shot, opens up a huge lead the best you have is to look at how they played in extended garbage time and say that wouldnt work against a better team. Your the only guy who looks to give you team "moral losses"
Heeee-haw dude.
a smarter team with a smarter player would take the opportunity to focus and hone their skills for an entire game.
why?
in preparation for the playoffs where playing the right way the entire game gives the best chance at winning the game.
are you sure you know what you are talking about? i am not convinced
and by the way your attempts at mocking humor are.not.funny.
Seriously - mocking the masculinity of guys you disagree with? So original! I bet no one has ever thought of doing that before!
Next, he's probably going to do the "why did the chicken cross the road" joke
Didn't you once tell me and another poster we should get a room together after we said that most of the Melo hate here is something personal?
Think it was exchange emails
gunsnewing wrote:Think it was exchange emails
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=45341&page=43
It was "you guys should get a room together!"
TeamBall wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:NYKBocker wrote:I don't really see Melo as a triangle type player. You need a willing passer and an ability to play well away from the ball. Both attributes that Melo does not possess. Big Chief Triangle needs to trade Melo for assets in the offseason assuming Melo does not opt out. If Melo stays then PJax needs to find the right system to build around Melo. This means a PG that can create. A SG that can hit the open 3. Another forward that is long that can switch with Melo between the 3 and 4. A stretch 5 that can rebound.
honestly do you only look at assist #s? Have you not been watching? How can you say Melo isnt a willing passer and also say you have watched him very much at all in the last two years?
Maybe he's watching more closely than you are! It looks like your eyeball assessment is malfunctioning again. They actually record this data now. Melo has 6.4 assist opportunities (passes that lead to shot attempts) per game, which barely places him in the top 100. For someone who leads the league in usage (meaning he has the ball in his hands more than anyone else in the league), that number is shocking. And before you bring up the "hockey assist" argument, note that he's averaging only 0.6 secondary assists ("hockey assists") per game. He's barely in the top 100 for total passes too (that's assist opportunity passes and any additional passes).
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingPassi...
Bonn.. not sure if you realized as I know you never watch, but there is actual basketball played before the final pass that leads to a score.For example... last game Melo, Prigs, JR and Shump are all on the wing with Cole in the middle. Melo passes on a 3 and swings the ball to Shump who swings it to Prigs who swings it JR who swings it back to Shump who swings it back to Melo who ends up with a better shot. Now was Melo ball hogging there? Was Melo willing to pass (thus making him a willing passer)? Yes he was.
Can you show me the stats on actual passes? Like how many times he has the ball and passes? It appears your data is incomplete
the first twenty minutes of the game they played the right way and it was how they built a comfortable lead against a team with a worse record. it was after that when the offensive cohesion evaporated. i was tracking the bad shots melo took and you can imagine that those bad shots contributed to the breakdown. did they win in spite of that? yes. against the celtics. BFD
can you use your internal eyeballs and imagine the same breakdown occurring against a title contender? what happens then?
easy. We would lose, and you and TFK and Bonn can lather each other up in vaseline and go streaking through the quad. Im pretty sure thats what would happen.Knicks come out against an inferior team in a must win game, Melo hits every shot, opens up a huge lead the best you have is to look at how they played in extended garbage time and say that wouldnt work against a better team. Your the only guy who looks to give you team "moral losses"
Heeee-haw dude.
a smarter team with a smarter player would take the opportunity to focus and hone their skills for an entire game.
why?
in preparation for the playoffs where playing the right way the entire game gives the best chance at winning the game.
are you sure you know what you are talking about? i am not convinced
and by the way your attempts at mocking humor are.not.funny.
Seriously - mocking the masculinity of guys you disagree with? So original! I bet no one has ever thought of doing that before!
Next, he's probably going to do the "why did the chicken cross the road" joke
Didn't you once tell me and another poster we should get a room together after we said that most of the Melo hate here is something personal?
Maybe. Fish calls people gay like ten times a day though.
