Knicks · Isiah Wishes Knicks' Core Of Randolph, Lee, Crawford, Trevor Ariza Had More Time Together. What do you think? (page 1)

2014 7:29 PM EDT

With Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford, David Lee and Trevor Ariza all playing important roles in the NBA Playoffs, Isiah Thomas is left to wonder what would had happen if his core with the New York Knicks had more time together.

“We had all those players while they were young,” Thomas said Thursday on Spike Lee’s SiriusXM NBA Radio show. “I can’t remember a time where the Knicks have had two All-Stars and a Sixth Man of the Year and they were all under the age of 29. I just wish we would have had the luxury of having a
little bit more time to more or less let the tree grow and let it bear a little bit more fruit.”

Thomas served as general manager of the Knicks from 2003 until 2008.

“It was a very young group. And we all want more time,” said Thomas. “And sometimes time is not the luxury that you have at your fingertips. But I wish that we could have kept that group together just a little bit longer as we’ve seen that they’ve grown into exceptional players and All-Stars in the league.

RGM”

holfresh wrote:So why did he and LB trade Reezy?

Papabear Says

This is only what it could have been like if they stayed. LB never liked Ariza. Remember ZEKE brought in those players. The theme was win now and they started to win but they wanted to make room for LeBron and you know how that went.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

2014 7:29 PM EDT

With Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford, David Lee and Trevor Ariza all playing important roles in the NBA Playoffs, Isiah Thomas is left to wonder what would had happen if his core with the New York Knicks had more time together.

“We had all those players while they were young,” Thomas said Thursday on Spike Lee’s SiriusXM NBA Radio show. “I can’t remember a time where the Knicks have had two All-Stars and a Sixth Man of the Year and they were all under the age of 29. I just wish we would have had the luxury of having a
little bit more time to more or less let the tree grow and let it bear a little bit more fruit.”

Thomas served as general manager of the Knicks from 2003 until 2008.

“It was a very young group. And we all want more time,” said Thomas. “And sometimes time is not the luxury that you have at your fingertips. But I wish that we could have kept that group together just a little bit longer as we’ve seen that they’ve grown into exceptional players and All-Stars in the league.

RGM”

I'd have to agree with Isiah. I think a lot of people allow their personal feelings to interfere with what was his job performance. The fact of the matter is that he turned one of the worst situations in sports history into a circumstance that had a silver lining. Aside from the Eddy Curry debacle, he did a pretty good job here; definitely better than Donnie Walsh.

Panos wrote:Nice cherry-picking.
How about the core of Marbles, Mo Taylor, Penny Hardaway, Steve Francis, Jerome James, Eddy Curry, and Larry Hughes?

Zeke gets here Dec. 2003. Ariza picked up in 2004 draft. Jamal gets here in a trade from Chicago in Aug. 2004 for Mutumbo et al. Frye, Lee & Nate picked up in 2005 draft. Good start.

Eddy Curry and his heart defect gets here Oct. 2005 using picks that became Joakim Noah and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Anucha Browne Sanders is fired in January 2006.

Ariza was traded with Penny for Stevie Franchise in Feb. 2006.

Knicks finished 2005-06 second to last in the league with the league's highest payroll.

But then Stevie & Frye was traded for Zach in June 2007.

Isiah & MSG are found liable for sexual harassment in Oct. 2007.

Donnie Walsh is brought in April 2008 and Isiah looms in the shadows until… who knows when exactly.

Postscript: Zach and Jamal both traded Nov. 2008, with that date still a UK forum record.

So what I think is Isiah wants to be remembered as a savvy scout of talent, but wants us to forget about his massive failure Eddy Curry and his otherwise reprehensible behavior.

DrAlphaeus wrote:Hmm:

Zeke gets here Dec. 2003. Jamal gets here in a trade from Chicago in Aug. 2004 for Mutumbo et al.

Eddy Curry and his heart defect gets here Oct. 2005 using picks that became Joakim Noah and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Anucha Browne Sanders is fired in January 2006.

Ariza was traded with Penny for Stevie Franchise in Feb. 2006.

Knicks finished 2005-06 second to last in the league with the league's highest payroll.

But then Stevie was traded for Zach in June 2007.

Isiah & MSG are found liable for sexual harassment in Oct. 2007.

Donnie Walsh is brought in April 2008 and Isiah looms in the shadows until… who knows when exactly.

Postscript: Zach and Jamal both traded Nov. 2008, with that date still a UK forum record.

So what I think is Isiah wants to be remembered as a savvy scout of talent, but wants us to forget about his massive failure Eddy Curry and his otherwise reprehensible behavior.

So those four were never even on the team at the same time? Slick, clever, witty, you Zeke, you tell them !!!

ramtour420 wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:Hmm:

Zeke gets here Dec. 2003. Jamal gets here in a trade from Chicago in Aug. 2004 for Mutumbo et al.

Eddy Curry and his heart defect gets here Oct. 2005 using picks that became Joakim Noah and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Anucha Browne Sanders is fired in January 2006.

Ariza was traded with Penny for Stevie Franchise in Feb. 2006.

Knicks finished 2005-06 second to last in the league with the league's highest payroll.

But then Stevie was traded for Zach in June 2007.

Isiah & MSG are found liable for sexual harassment in Oct. 2007.

Donnie Walsh is brought in April 2008 and Isiah looms in the shadows until… who knows when exactly.

Postscript: Zach and Jamal both traded Nov. 2008, with that date still a UK forum record.

So what I think is Isiah wants to be remembered as a savvy scout of talent, but wants us to forget about his massive failure Eddy Curry and his otherwise reprehensible behavior.

So those four were never even on the team at the same time? Slick, clever, witty, you Zeke, you tell them !!!

I edited my post to at least give him credit for a good start, but come on Zeke. It's exactly why those Eddy Curry picks were a waste, because I really do think Zeke could have drafted us a much, much better team. Look up the wasted salaries for those years, it will make you cry.

Panos wrote:Nice cherry-picking.
How about the core of Marbles, Mo Taylor, Penny Hardaway, Steve Francis, Jerome James, Eddy Curry, and Larry Hughes?

How about the core of Zach Randolph, David Lee, Jamal Crawford and Trevor Ariza though? Pretty good when you're starting with shit players like Charlie Ward, Shandon Anderson, Howard Eisley, Othella Harrington and company.

P.S., can you explain to me the difference between Stephon Marbury and the hype that is Russell Westbrook, other than Marbury being the better player and never having the luxury of playing on a team as talented as the Thunder in his prime?

ramtour420 wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:Hmm:

Zeke gets here Dec. 2003. Jamal gets here in a trade from Chicago in Aug. 2004 for Mutumbo et al.

Eddy Curry and his heart defect gets here Oct. 2005 using picks that became Joakim Noah and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Anucha Browne Sanders is fired in January 2006.

Ariza was traded with Penny for Stevie Franchise in Feb. 2006.

Knicks finished 2005-06 second to last in the league with the league's highest payroll.

But then Stevie was traded for Zach in June 2007.

Isiah & MSG are found liable for sexual harassment in Oct. 2007.

Donnie Walsh is brought in April 2008 and Isiah looms in the shadows until… who knows when exactly.

Postscript: Zach and Jamal both traded Nov. 2008, with that date still a UK forum record.

So what I think is Isiah wants to be remembered as a savvy scout of talent, but wants us to forget about his massive failure Eddy Curry and his otherwise reprehensible behavior.

So those four were never even on the team at the same time? Slick, clever, witty, you Zeke, you tell them !!!

Uh, only Ariza wasn't around to play with the core group of guys mentioned in the title. And if it wasn't for Larry Brown, Ariza would've stuck around to be part of that core because Channing Frye was the primary bait in the Randolph deal and we had a slew of contracts to substitute for Francis (who would've never been on the team).

DrAlphaeus wrote:Hmm:

Zeke gets here Dec. 2003. Ariza picked up in 2004 draft. Jamal gets here in a trade from Chicago in Aug. 2004 for Mutumbo et al. Frye, Lee & Nate picked up in 2005 draft. Good start.

Eddy Curry and his heart defect gets here Oct. 2005 using picks that became Joakim Noah and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Anucha Browne Sanders is fired in January 2006.

Ariza was traded with Penny for Stevie Franchise in Feb. 2006.

Knicks finished 2005-06 second to last in the league with the league's highest payroll.

But then Stevie & Frye was traded for Zach in June 2007.

Isiah & MSG are found liable for sexual harassment in Oct. 2007.

Donnie Walsh is brought in April 2008 and Isiah looms in the shadows until… who knows when exactly.

Postscript: Zach and Jamal both traded Nov. 2008, with that date still a UK forum record.

So what I think is Isiah wants to be remembered as a savvy scout of talent, but wants us to forget about his massive failure Eddy Curry and his otherwise reprehensible behavior.

Isiah may be a douche but that has nothing to do with the topic of conversation I.e. his basketball operations resume. Yes, he had the Eddy Curry debacle but outside of that, what move could you really consider a failure from a talent/value perspective?

NardDogNation wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:Hmm:

Zeke gets here Dec. 2003. Ariza picked up in 2004 draft. Jamal gets here in a trade from Chicago in Aug. 2004 for Mutumbo et al. Frye, Lee & Nate picked up in 2005 draft. Good start.

Eddy Curry and his heart defect gets here Oct. 2005 using picks that became Joakim Noah and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Anucha Browne Sanders is fired in January 2006.

Ariza was traded with Penny for Stevie Franchise in Feb. 2006.

Knicks finished 2005-06 second to last in the league with the league's highest payroll.

But then Stevie & Frye was traded for Zach in June 2007.

Isiah & MSG are found liable for sexual harassment in Oct. 2007.

Donnie Walsh is brought in April 2008 and Isiah looms in the shadows until… who knows when exactly.

Postscript: Zach and Jamal both traded Nov. 2008, with that date still a UK forum record.

So what I think is Isiah wants to be remembered as a savvy scout of talent, but wants us to forget about his massive failure Eddy Curry and his otherwise reprehensible behavior.

Isiah may be a douche but that has nothing to do with the topic of conversation I.e. his basketball operations resume. Yes, he had the Eddy Curry debacle but outside of that, what move could you really consider a failure from a talent/value perspective?

I'll always say he was a good draft scout. But he shouldn't have done more than that.

But if you believe that the prez of ops is in charge of the culture, it seems his mismanagement on other levels had a direct impact on basketball.

I forgot to add he was there when they brought on Marbury Jan. '04. I thought good things were coming back then as well. Knicks make playoffs, but after slow start Wilkens resigns next season. Old fashioned coach loses the ears of the young guys. Sounds familiar. Herb, Larry, Allan Houston's contract… not saying he had it easy. But Steve Francis? Jerome James? Vin Baker? Trading Crazy Eyes for Ray-J's brother-in-law for a million more a year? (That may just be nostalgia talking but something to be said about crafty vets in the mix, and his other centers were busts). Coddling/enabling Marbury? Maybe the core got good simply because they were depended on so much and got so many minutes in losing efforts, it was some sort of crucible. I dunno. But the 06-07 & 07-08 teams he coached he got 33 & 23 wins, respectively. So he can say "I wish" all he wants but I wish he wasn't a failure as a manager.

Talent was never the issue, it was the empowered narcissist of Marbles that was toxic.

Reezy was talented but still very raw with clashed with Larry's "be professional" mantra. Larry wanted saavy players and Reezy was not there yet. Wrong coach for that team. Larry did bring out the best in Crawford and Eddy.

ZBo had the talent but was a bone head.

Panos wrote:Nice cherry-picking.
How about the core of Marbles, Mo Taylor, Penny Hardaway, Steve Francis, Jerome James, Eddy Curry, and Larry Hughes?

Exactly. Crippling moves and TT!

gunsnewing wrote:

Panos wrote:Nice cherry-picking.
How about the core of Marbles, Mo Taylor, Penny Hardaway, Steve Francis, Jerome James, Eddy Curry, and Larry Hughes?

Exactly. Crippling moves

Then in the 09 draft if we would have drafted a PG(Jennings, Holiday, Lawson, Teague) rather then draft Jordan Hill only to trade him for cap space which turned into Raymond Felton.

Move Nate for a natural SG who can shoot to bring Crawford off the bench.

You could be looking at Holiday, SG, Gallinari, Randolph, Hawes, Crawford & Chandler off off the bench. Plus whoever we draft in 11,12,13. Randolph and Holiday would run the PNR making them look like stars. Crawford & Chandler would provide a lot of talent off the bench.

We would have had major cap space in 2010-2011 still. If the Melo deal presented itself then we could have package Randolph who would be looking like an allstar as the primary PNR in MDA system(which would lower the amount of assets we had to give up), Gallo or Chandler, and some other filler.

Nalod wrote:Isiah put the franchise in Marbury's hands and that by itself doomed it no matter how much talent you put around him.

Talent was never the issue, it was the empowered narcissist of Marbles that was toxic.

Reezy was talented but still very raw with clashed with Larry's "be professional" mantra. Larry wanted saavy players and Reezy was not there yet. Wrong coach for that team. Larry did bring out the best in Crawford and Eddy.

ZBo had the talent but was a bone head.

Marbury has his share of the blame and a lot of it goes to him as the franchise player. But even if you say Isiah gave Marbury the keys, he never built a team around him that complimented him all he did was add talent.

Marbury was a penetrating PG yet all Isiah did was add guys who clogged the paint. When Marbury had Mutombo, *KT, *KVH, *Doleac as his front court he was balling. The pick and pops and space to penetrate made the game easier for him.

A couple of tweeks to upgrade talent and get younger as the years go on but maintain spacing, balance etc would have changed the outlook drastically. Sure they may have still done some stupid off the court crap but they would have won a lot more games.