Knicks · Would Melo be the first star player? (page 3)
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newyorknewyork wrote:sidsanders wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:sidsanders wrote:didnt dirk do that to stay with dallas not too long ago?Don't think he has done it yet, but planned to this coming off season in order to entice Paul or Howard that if they signed there he would take less money to get a 3rd guy or something like that.
"Despite being a free agent, on July 5, 2010, Nowitzki agreed to remain with Dallas by re-signing to a four-year, $80 million deal"
he could have done 4/96.
Okay, I knew he signed for 80mil, didn't know he could have had 96.
Its close but at the same time he had Kidd & Terry as his core mates already and they won 50, 55, 57 games around that time period for 3 yrs. It seems more similar to Duncan then what we are asking Melo.
With Melo we are talking about him taking less and then probably rebuilding the whole core of Tyson, Smith, Amare, Felton, Shump. Not taking less to maybe add one or 2 more pieces to an already establish core to push them over the top.
Even with this said, Melo taking a pay cut isn't that crazy since he is only due this amount of money due to the fact that he has been in the league for so long and is able to get raises to his max. Same thing with Dirk.
Yeah, exactly. The Dallas team was already an established team. You are basically telling Melo, take less money, wait a year and then maybe have a good team. No one in NY sports will do that. Look at Robinson Cano. Even he followed the money and he was a home grown yankee.
It so easy to say draft a championship team when you don't have to do the planning. This idea that building through the draft is the "right" way is ridiculous. Chicago did it through the draft and they are stuck with an injury prone franchise player. OKC drafted three good players but could not hold on to one because they couldn't pay and now they are not at Miami's level. Stars win in the NBA and the last 10 years of NBA winners prove that. Other than the Spurs, none of the last 10 championship teams have been able to win without trading or signing stars as free agents.
dirk had been a second team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011
if melo is looking at dirk's monetary sacrifice and comparing himself to dirk in terms of recognized greatness, then asking for anything more than 13-14 million a year with the knicks is the height of conceit and delusion. melo needs to sack up and do what's best for the team and not what he believes is best for himself. he tried it once and it hasn't turned out too well.
only greed and ego will make him want more.
dk7th wrote:dirk had been a first team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011
dirk had been a second team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011if melo is looking at dirk's monetary sacrifice and comparing himself to dirk in terms of recognized greatness, then asking for anything more than 13-14 million a year with the knicks is the height of conceit and delusion. melo needs to sack up and do what's best for the team and not what he believes is best for himself. he tried it once and it hasn't turned out too well.
only greed and ego will make him want more.
If melo 'sacrifices' like dirk he has to get 21 mil to net the same as dirk because if ny/NYC income tax.
dk7th wrote:dirk had been a first team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011
dirk had been a second team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011if melo is looking at dirk's monetary sacrifice and comparing himself to dirk in terms of recognized greatness, then asking for anything more than 13-14 million a year with the knicks is the height of conceit and delusion. melo needs to sack up and do what's best for the team and not what he believes is best for himself. he tried it once and it hasn't turned out too well.
only greed and ego will make him want more.
I don't understand the Dirk comparison Dirk is the second highest paid player in the NBA at 22.7 mil per only behind Kobe at 30mil per..
But do u understand this is a business??..Phil's asking price is 12 per..Your all knowing GM Donnie Walsh paid Amare 100 mil over 5...
gunsnewing wrote:I think both Amare and Melo make more than Dirk
Checked on trade checker. Dirk makes 22 mil+. Thought someone posted he makes 18 mil.
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:dirk had been a first team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011
dirk had been a second team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011if melo is looking at dirk's monetary sacrifice and comparing himself to dirk in terms of recognized greatness, then asking for anything more than 13-14 million a year with the knicks is the height of conceit and delusion. melo needs to sack up and do what's best for the team and not what he believes is best for himself. he tried it once and it hasn't turned out too well.
only greed and ego will make him want more.
If melo 'sacrifices' like dirk he has to get 21 mil to net the same as dirk because if ny/NYC income tax.
why is dirk the barometer for the contract anthony might take? diff situations.
gunsnewing wrote:I think both Amare and Melo make more than Dirk
Dirk's average salary is 20 mil per over the last 4 years in a state where he pays zero state tax...Melo average gross salary over the last 3 years was less than Dirk's salary..
sidsanders wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:dirk had been a first team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011
dirk had been a second team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011if melo is looking at dirk's monetary sacrifice and comparing himself to dirk in terms of recognized greatness, then asking for anything more than 13-14 million a year with the knicks is the height of conceit and delusion. melo needs to sack up and do what's best for the team and not what he believes is best for himself. he tried it once and it hasn't turned out too well.
only greed and ego will make him want more.
If melo 'sacrifices' like dirk he has to get 21 mil to net the same as dirk because if ny/NYC income tax.why is dirk the barometer for the contract anthony might take? diff situations.
Not sure. My point has been that the income tax in ny/NYC plays a part in what a players net income is. Melo nets less than LBJ but LBJ sacrificed in a state with no income tax.
CrushAlot wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I think both Amare and Melo make more than DirkChecked on trade checker. Dirk makes 22 mil+. Thought someone posted he makes 18 mil.
I said Melo needs to resign for $17-23m for the 5yr duration. Increases incremently every year. Even then I lean towards trading him. I want to develope our own cornerstone. Hasn't been done since 1985-Ewing. I would also like to target guys via trade and free agency who are in the 25-28yr old range. I DO NOT want to pay a 30+yr old with shoulder issues who's logged a ton of minutes, been in the league 11yrs. I've seen it with H20. It's best for Melo and the Knicks for him to be traded to an instant contender. Melo as a 2nd/3rd option is a huge get for any team looking to win. Ala Houston, Chicago, Washington, Memphis, GS
CrushAlot wrote:sidsanders wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:dirk had been a first team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011
dirk had been a second team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011if melo is looking at dirk's monetary sacrifice and comparing himself to dirk in terms of recognized greatness, then asking for anything more than 13-14 million a year with the knicks is the height of conceit and delusion. melo needs to sack up and do what's best for the team and not what he believes is best for himself. he tried it once and it hasn't turned out too well.
only greed and ego will make him want more.
If melo 'sacrifices' like dirk he has to get 21 mil to net the same as dirk because if ny/NYC income tax.why is dirk the barometer for the contract anthony might take? diff situations.
Not sure. My point has been that the income tax in ny/NYC plays a part in what a players net income is. Melo nets less than LBJ but LBJ sacrificed in a state with no income tax.
if the cba doesnt factor in taxes and counts only what you are paid, not sure that part means much. im not looking at this for victimization/blame since that seems to be where this thread is going.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q77
hey, looks like some guys will get taxed 2 times for the same game check, depending on where the game is played. point being, it isnt so easy to factor in taxes, and if the cba doesnt really factor that in for the cap (im no cap guy), not sure its a valid point to bring up for any pay cuts. pay cut helps the teams cap, and thats what is most likely needed for the knicks.
sidsanders wrote:CrushAlot wrote:sidsanders wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:dirk had been a first team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011
dirk had been a second team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011if melo is looking at dirk's monetary sacrifice and comparing himself to dirk in terms of recognized greatness, then asking for anything more than 13-14 million a year with the knicks is the height of conceit and delusion. melo needs to sack up and do what's best for the team and not what he believes is best for himself. he tried it once and it hasn't turned out too well.
only greed and ego will make him want more.
If melo 'sacrifices' like dirk he has to get 21 mil to net the same as dirk because if ny/NYC income tax.why is dirk the barometer for the contract anthony might take? diff situations.
Not sure. My point has been that the income tax in ny/NYC plays a part in what a players net income is. Melo nets less than LBJ but LBJ sacrificed in a state with no income tax.
if the cba doesnt factor in taxes and counts only what you are paid, not sure that part means much. im not looking at this for victimization/blame since that seems to be where this thread is going.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q77
hey, looks like some guys will get taxed 2 times for the same game check, depending on where the game is played. point being, it isnt so easy to factor in taxes, and if the cba doesnt really factor that in for the cap (im no cap guy), not sure its a valid point to bring up for any pay cuts. pay cut helps the teams cap, and thats what is most likely needed for the knicks.
Wow. Great link. Income tax heavy states/raptors still hit harder in the pocket but it is a 41 game income tax hit versus a 41 game income tax break for states that don't have state/city income tax. Still a big perk to play in Texas or Florida but not as big.
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:dirk had been a first team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011
dirk had been a second team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011if melo is looking at dirk's monetary sacrifice and comparing himself to dirk in terms of recognized greatness, then asking for anything more than 13-14 million a year with the knicks is the height of conceit and delusion. melo needs to sack up and do what's best for the team and not what he believes is best for himself. he tried it once and it hasn't turned out too well.
only greed and ego will make him want more.
If melo 'sacrifices' like dirk he has to get 21 mil to net the same as dirk because if ny/NYC income tax.
dirk is head and shoulders better than melo-- that's why i listed the all-nba awards, of which there is a predominance of 1st and 2nd team elections. the mvp means nothing so i did not include it. dirk was also homegrown, was willing to stay with the team that drafted him.
2008-09 Dallas Mavericks NBA $18,077,904
2009-10 Dallas Mavericks NBA $19,795,714
2010-11 Dallas Mavericks NBA $17,278,618
2011-12 Dallas Mavericks NBA $19,092,873
2012-13 Dallas Mavericks NBA $20,907,128
2013-14 Dallas Mavericks NBA $22,721,381
hence, melo should have stayed with denver instead of creating a worse situation for himself through greed and ego. if he wants to make amends and is serious about remaining a knick he should undo the damage he did and stay in new york for 12-14 million.
2010-11 New York Knicks NBA $17,149,243
2011-12 New York Knicks NBA $18,518,574
2012-13 New York Knicks NBA $19,450,000
2013-14 New York Knicks NBA $22,407,474
melo is merely two-thirds the player that nowitzki is. a few people may want to argue this point by denigrating nowitzki somehow. this is the usual tactic used to somehow put lipstick on a pig.
two-thirds of dirk's title year salary is 11-12 million. this is the range that is fair for melo, although 12-14 million is hold-your-nose doable. you start asking for more than that and it's really a non-starter for the knicks.
so simple.
Sangfroid wrote:Those 5 year numbers that you give for Dirk are about the same numbers I expect Melo to sign for. Melo is still a top 10 player in the league, and the best option for this team going forward.
or not
dk7th wrote:Sangfroid wrote:Those 5 year numbers that you give for Dirk are about the same numbers I expect Melo to sign for. Melo is still a top 10 player in the league, and the best option for this team going forward.or not
we will find out soon
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:dirk had been a first team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011
dirk had been a second team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011if melo is looking at dirk's monetary sacrifice and comparing himself to dirk in terms of recognized greatness, then asking for anything more than 13-14 million a year with the knicks is the height of conceit and delusion. melo needs to sack up and do what's best for the team and not what he believes is best for himself. he tried it once and it hasn't turned out too well.
only greed and ego will make him want more.
If melo 'sacrifices' like dirk he has to get 21 mil to net the same as dirk because if ny/NYC income tax.dirk is head and shoulders better than melo-- that's why i listed the all-nba awards, of which there is a predominance of 1st and 2nd team elections. the mvp means nothing so i did not include it. dirk was also homegrown, was willing to stay with the team that drafted him.
2008-09 Dallas Mavericks NBA $18,077,904
2009-10 Dallas Mavericks NBA $19,795,714
2010-11 Dallas Mavericks NBA $17,278,618
2011-12 Dallas Mavericks NBA $19,092,873
2012-13 Dallas Mavericks NBA $20,907,128
2013-14 Dallas Mavericks NBA $22,721,381hence, melo should have stayed with denver instead of creating a worse situation for himself through greed and ego. if he wants to make amends and is serious about remaining a knick he should undo the damage he did and stay in new york for 12-14 million.
2010-11 New York Knicks NBA $17,149,243
2011-12 New York Knicks NBA $18,518,574
2012-13 New York Knicks NBA $19,450,000
2013-14 New York Knicks NBA $22,407,474melo is merely two-thirds the player that nowitzki is. a few people may want to argue this point by denigrating nowitzki somehow. this is the usual tactic used to somehow put lipstick on a pig.
two-thirds of dirk's title year salary is 11-12 million. this is the range that is fair for melo, although 12-14 million is hold-your-nose doable. you start asking for more than that and it's really a non-starter for the knicks.
so simple.
Dirk is no longer the player he once was, he isn't even the best player on his team...Dirk is 5 years older than Melo but has had a better career than Melo thus far...He has also played with better players...You stated that Dirk "sacrificed", when and where??...
Why do you think Melo need to make amends to you???..Why would Melo take 12-14 mil from the Knicks, when Chicago is ready to offer him 19 mil per???
holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:dirk had been a first team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011
dirk had been a second team all-nba player 4 times before 2010-2011if melo is looking at dirk's monetary sacrifice and comparing himself to dirk in terms of recognized greatness, then asking for anything more than 13-14 million a year with the knicks is the height of conceit and delusion. melo needs to sack up and do what's best for the team and not what he believes is best for himself. he tried it once and it hasn't turned out too well.
only greed and ego will make him want more.
If melo 'sacrifices' like dirk he has to get 21 mil to net the same as dirk because if ny/NYC income tax.dirk is head and shoulders better than melo-- that's why i listed the all-nba awards, of which there is a predominance of 1st and 2nd team elections. the mvp means nothing so i did not include it. dirk was also homegrown, was willing to stay with the team that drafted him.
2008-09 Dallas Mavericks NBA $18,077,904
2009-10 Dallas Mavericks NBA $19,795,714
2010-11 Dallas Mavericks NBA $17,278,618
2011-12 Dallas Mavericks NBA $19,092,873
2012-13 Dallas Mavericks NBA $20,907,128
2013-14 Dallas Mavericks NBA $22,721,381hence, melo should have stayed with denver instead of creating a worse situation for himself through greed and ego. if he wants to make amends and is serious about remaining a knick he should undo the damage he did and stay in new york for 12-14 million.
2010-11 New York Knicks NBA $17,149,243
2011-12 New York Knicks NBA $18,518,574
2012-13 New York Knicks NBA $19,450,000
2013-14 New York Knicks NBA $22,407,474melo is merely two-thirds the player that nowitzki is. a few people may want to argue this point by denigrating nowitzki somehow. this is the usual tactic used to somehow put lipstick on a pig.
two-thirds of dirk's title year salary is 11-12 million. this is the range that is fair for melo, although 12-14 million is hold-your-nose doable. you start asking for more than that and it's really a non-starter for the knicks.
so simple.
Dirk is no longer the player he once was, he isn't even the best player on his team...Dirk is 5 years older than Melo but has had a better career than Melo thus far...He has also played with better players...You stated that Dirk "sacrificed", when and where??...
Why do you think Melo need to make amends to you???..Why would Melo take 12-14 mil from the Knicks, when Chicago is ready to offer him 19 mil per???
when he took a pay cut it was just after he was an all-nba first teamer. his salary went down 2.5 million the year he led his team to the title and was the finals mvp.
melo owes all knicks fans for how the franchise was yanked off course, with a ton of collateral damage, falling well short of the expectations that came with how much he was paid and how many assets were surrendered. plus, how do you do come here like you do, then 3 years later say
"i knew it was going to be a few years to build a team"
"i want to test free agency"
"i am not interested in a rebuild"
care to parse these sentiments? or are you going to tell me that it was up to the coaching staff and the front office to find quality players to fit around him? and if you do say that, knowing that d'antoni is a system guy, then how much sense does it make to bring in the ultimate non-system player?