He's poised to really break out at 25 years old. I dont think we have a full MLE do we? He would def be worth it. I think Briggs mentioned him in the past also. Would be a great upgrade at PG. He's going to get some good offers though... I would think 3 years $18mm range.
We could've had him for nothing a long time ago when we were desperate for a pg but we were too mesmerized by the greatest of Raymond Felton
gunsnewing wrote:We could've had him for nothing a long time ago when we were desperate for a pg but we were too mesmerized by the greatest of Raymond Felton
your like a scorned ex lover. Get over yourself. Dolan is NOT your ex wife. Just answer the question!
Kate Upton -- or are we saving her for LeBron?
Right now 3.1M. The knicks only have the mini-mle to spend in the off season unless Phil pulls a rabbit out the hat.
SupremeCommander wrote:Kate Upton -- or are we saving her for LeBron?
phuck Lebron. He's awful. A title with him here doesnt excite me. Have to be honest. Much prefer to beat him. Patty Mills is obviously that piece we need.
yellowboy90 wrote:Right now 3.1M. The knicks only have the mini-mle to spend in the off season unless Phil pulls a rabbit out the hat.
2 years? 3? I would think a 2 year deal for $6mm and change might be enticing. If he can win the starter role he will get paid quite well in 2 years when we are capped out anyway.
fishmike wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Right now 3.1M. The knicks only have the mini-mle to spend in the off season unless Phil pulls a rabbit out the hat.
2 years? 3? I would think a 2 year deal for $6mm and change might be enticing. If he can win the starter role he will get paid quite well in 2 years when we are capped out anyway.
Looks like a mini MLE contract maxes at $3.278mm for next yr. with raises up to 4.5% of the salary in the first year of the contract and can go no longer than 3 years total (per Larry Coon's site).
Not sure exactly how the 4.5% raise works for yrs 2 & 3 but going on the above -- it might look something like this:
$3.278mm year 1
$3.42551mm year 2
$3.98mm year 3
--------------
3 yrs/$10.68mm max?
Maybe I'm wrong and a mini-ML free agent's entitled to more than that but for argument's sake at least, I think Mills is definitely worth that anyway. He's probably even worth the 3 yrs/$18mm you mentioned, maybe more...So is Darren Collison too imho (although I think he'll get less). It'd be nice to get either one of these guys in here to stabilize the PG spot. If we wanna get some bigger multi-facetted guards in here for triangle purposes, fine, I'm all for that too. I'd recommend trying to get this kid Dinwiddie in the draft and maybe going after a Terrence Williams in FA for the minimum or perhaps 6'4" Darius Morris like Crush recommended. I would like to get a real, prototypical PG in the mix though -- for matchup purposes, for extra speed and penetration, etc. No one has convinced me that a prototypical PG can't function within a triangle offense. Maybe teams that have used the triangle in the past never really had a truer PG playing major mins, or maybe they just had the best players in the sport and didn't really have a need for what a truer PG brings to the table, I dunno...I know I'd like one though...We can't possibly go into next year thinking we're OK with Felton and Prigioni again.
I think Mills could be had for that amount -- SA very well may match, I think they like him but they also have Cory Joseph who they like and that dude's pretty good too. Hard to tell -- SA may chose to pass on Mills or they may chose to give him even more than 3 yrs/$18mm. I know this -- if we came strong with our max mini-ML offer and told him he'd either start or get starter-type mins, that might be enough to lure him here (I gotta believe he'd welcome the idea of running his own team). If SA hesitates and spins their tires on him early on in FA, we could swoop in and grab him...There's also a lot of other teams out there that may be thinking the same thing, so we'll have to see. Darren Collison would be a great 2nd choice.
Nothing against Mills, but what other PGs are available in 2015? Kind of skittish about 3 years since we will be doing a major rebuild in 2015. We still don't know what Melo will do and how much of the cap his salary will eat up if he stays. Would be nice to give him a one year audition, but I dont know if Mills would go for that.
GustavBahler wrote:Nothing against Mills, but what other PGs are available in 2015? Kind of skittish about 3 years since we will be doing a major rebuild in 2015. We still don't know what Melo will do and how much of the cap his salary will eat up if he stays. Would be nice to give him a one year audition, but I dont know if Mills would go for that.
well we cant offer much. Downside to a 3 year deal is he's a scorer off the bench but a moveable part. Upside we get our future starting PG cheap and can resign him after we are capped out.
fishmike wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nothing against Mills, but what other PGs are available in 2015? Kind of skittish about 3 years since we will be doing a major rebuild in 2015. We still don't know what Melo will do and how much of the cap his salary will eat up if he stays. Would be nice to give him a one year audition, but I dont know if Mills would go for that.
well we cant offer much. Downside to a 3 year deal is he's a scorer off the bench but a moveable part. Upside we get our future starting PG cheap and can resign him after we are capped out.
Makes sense, its not like he has Felton's baggage. We'll see if Phil manages to trade him, that will be quite the magic trick.
GustavBahler wrote:Nothing against Mills, but what other PGs are available in 2015? Kind of skittish about 3 years since we will be doing a major rebuild in 2015. We still don't know what Melo will do and how much of the cap his salary will eat up if he stays. Would be nice to give him a one year audition, but I dont know if Mills would go for that.
I have feeling that Darren Collison is going t0 opt out. Ramon Sessions, Steve Blake, Shaun Livingston, Luke Ridnour. Kirk Heinrich, Devin Harris and Rodney Stuckey are also available.
Patty Mills stepped up in SAS.
Find the players who do this BEFORE they step up.
Like buying stocks, easy to buy AFTER they go up!
System coach's do this well. MDA could do it when given the proper roster players. Phil won with role players to elevate Jordan/Pippen/Shaq/Kobe and likewise they made them better...........
Give the wrong players to the system and you get a mess. We know this.
Patty Mills? I don't know.
My main question is -- can we find a way to sign a Mills or a Collison and still have some money left over to offer Cole Aldrich something a little more substantial than his vet minimum. Maybe in that case, we look at Collison instead as he might be open to taking less than a full 3-yr mini-ML deal. Collison and Aldrich > Mills I'm thinking...See if we can make that happen. Don't forget with Mills -- he's in a great spot right now -- he's on arguably the best team in the NBA with legit championship aspirations every single year. If they agree to open up the checkbook for him, I don't see him going anywhere...Only if they lowball him or spin their tires on making him an offer will we have a chance. Maybe also if SA wins it all he may feel like there's nothing left to accomplish there. He may want to move on and run his own team.
Finestrg wrote:My main question is -- can we find a way to sign a Mills or a Collison and still have some money left over to offer Cole Aldrich something a little more substantial than his vet minimum. Maybe in that case, we look at Collison instead as he might be open to taking less than a full 3-yr mini-ML deal. Collison and Aldrich > Mills I'm thinking...See if we can make that happen. Don't forget with Mills -- he's in a great spot right now -- he's on arguably the best team in the NBA with legit championship aspirations every single year. If they agree to open up the checkbook for him, I don't see him going anywhere...Only if they lowball him or spin their tires on making him an offer will we have a chance. Maybe also if SA wins it all he may feel like there's nothing left to accomplish there. He may want to move on and run his own team.
Cole is a non factor for me. If we keep him nice, but he's not stopping me from upgrading PG. Cole had some nice moments filling out the stat sheet but he is a low impact player. A PG who can get in the lane and create anything for anybody has much higher value to the Knicks. Look at the game logs and our PG stats. Felton played 64 games last year.
In wins: 45%FGs 34% 3ptFGs
losses: 35%FGs 30% 3ptFGs
When we got any kind of consistent play at PG last year we did pretty good.
Finestrg wrote:My main question is -- can we find a way to sign a Mills or a Collison and still have some money left over to offer Cole Aldrich something a little more substantial than his vet minimum. Maybe in that case, we look at Collison instead as he might be open to taking less than a full 3-yr mini-ML deal. Collison and Aldrich > Mills I'm thinking...See if we can make that happen. Don't forget with Mills -- he's in a great spot right now -- he's on arguably the best team in the NBA with legit championship aspirations every single year. If they agree to open up the checkbook for him, I don't see him going anywhere...Only if they lowball him or spin their tires on making him an offer will we have a chance. Maybe also if SA wins it all he may feel like there's nothing left to accomplish there. He may want to move on and run his own team.
They can offer Cole a slightly higher number than the vet min using some kind of raise. Cole is really a vet min type so that may be enough. I doubt their will be a bidding war for Aldrich. The one thing the Knicks can offer players like Collison and Mills is a chance to start which may lead to a big pay day.
Mills would be an outstanding addition.
fishmike wrote:He's poised to really break out at 25 years old. I dont think we have a full MLE do we? He would def be worth it. I think Briggs mentioned him in the past also. Would be a great upgrade at PG. He's going to get some good offers though... I would think 3 years $18mm range.
Isn't he being exposed somewhat in the playoffs?
I see a quick little guy who is a shoot first guy and he is someone who is getting most of his shots off the Spurs offense and playing with lots of other weapons.
If you take him out of that system -- you have a smallish PG who really isn't a passer and who could be exposed significantly playing in another system.
I get it - he's intriguing but at the same time -- I think we are seeing a product of the super Spurs offensive flow/system.
LivingLegend wrote:fishmike wrote:He's poised to really break out at 25 years old. I dont think we have a full MLE do we? He would def be worth it. I think Briggs mentioned him in the past also. Would be a great upgrade at PG. He's going to get some good offers though... I would think 3 years $18mm range.
Isn't he being exposed somewhat in the playoffs?
I see a quick little guy who is a shoot first guy and he is someone who is getting most of his shots off the Spurs offense and playing with lots of other weapons.
If you take him out of that system -- you have a smallish PG who really isn't a passer and who could be exposed significantly playing in another system.
I get it - he's intriguing but at the same time -- I think we are seeing a product of the super Spurs offensive flow/system.
your right on all points... but thats why we are discussing adding a guy for $3mm a year but has upside
You nailed it. Can he become a true facilitator? Good think though is triangle isnt a PG run offense where the PG is truely a QB, so the hope is a guy who is already a good scorer and can get in the lane and break down his man and is young can take it to the next level.
What I like:
Good % shooter for a guard. 45% FGs and 40% from 3
2:1 assist to TO, and he takes care of the ball
Can break down his man off the dribble and get into the lane
Last year when Felton or any guard shot the ball well we were pretty good.
Im thinking low cost high impact (potentially)
