Knicks · Make Playoffs or Blow it Up("Tank") (page 1)

I didnt see an option for make small moves and go into playoffs as top 3 seed winning 50+.

Also.. say we let Melo walk for picks and prospects. How are we tanking again? Are we telling Tyson/Bargs/Amare that we are tanking and not to play hard? Are we telling Shump (contract year), THjr (all rookie team) not to get caught up in winning games? Its all just practice?

You think Dolan is paying $85mm to Fisher and Phil so we get a good pick next year and put all the expectations of 40 years of no titles on that player we draft (probably be about as good as Gallo anyway picking late lottery)?

Doesnt make sense

What if we trade Melo for a borderline Allstar and picks? I should've been more clear. Disregard Tank

Make the playoffs with Melo and pieces with limited resources or get younger, less injury prone and more team oriented?

Also you don't tank. You expect Shumpert and THJ to give it everything they have

2015 is a lost year.

You think the celtics don't give everything they have every night despite lack of talent?

Why can't the Knicks to the same and then add pieces like the celtics are trying to do?

Or we rather be the Nyets in no mans land?

Make Playoffs with eye towards FA. Also decision to vary with Melo coming back or not. No Melo blow it up.

gunsnewing wrote:Also you don't tank. You expect Shumpert and THJ to give it everything they have

2015 is a lost year.

You think the celtics don't give everything they have every night despite lack of talent?

Why can't the Knicks to the same and then add pieces like the celtics are trying to do?

Or we rather be the Nyets in no mans land?

yes, you play your young players,if they blow up good enough to get you into the playoffs, well you have some valuable assets most likely. if not, you get a top pick.. but the key is to play hard.. Tanking is not something you should try to do.. it should be organic. if you are not gooe enough to qualify for a playoff spot then a lottery pick is your prize..

Even then, you still may be a lottery team, but in the process develop some of the younger players.. that is a win-win situation.

I agree that's who I said ("Tank")

gunsnewing wrote:What if we trade Melo for a borderline Allstar and picks? I should've been more clear. Disregard Tank

Make the playoffs with Melo and pieces with limited resources or get younger, less injury prone and more team oriented?

was the team more team oriented two years ago when we won 54 games? I thought that was a pretty good 'team' squad. Why do you need to move Melo to be more team oriented? Seems to me from recent history we just need a better team.

It doesnt really matter. Reality is we wait for the Melo situation to play out and the plans will form from there.

That 54 win team exemplifies everything wrong with the Knicks organization previous line of thinking. Prior to Phil coming aboard

54 wins to 37

it does not matter what player moves are made because the knicks are stuck for the entirety of next season. the franchise will be focussing on a culture change first and foremost. at the very least the point for next season will be to have the team play up to its potential and not implode like it did this past season thanks to the yawning chasm of the leadership vacuum. there are only two things we need to see next year:

1) defensive effort
2) nba-level conditioning

everything else is like putting lipstick on a pig so knick fans would do well to not get distracted by personnel moves given how strapped the team will be.

dk7th wrote:it does not matter what player moves are made because the knicks are stuck for the entirety of next season. the franchise will be focussing on a culture change first and foremost. at the very least the point for next season will be to have the team play up to its potential and not implode like it did this past season thanks to the yawning chasm of the leadership vacuum. there are only two things we need to see next year:

1) defensive effort
2) nba-level conditioning

everything else is like putting lipstick on a pig so knick fans would do well to not get distracted by personnel moves given how strapped the team will be.

pretty much... we should focus on playing hard, every game, and trying to develop a culture of playing ball the right way..

gunsnewing wrote:That 54 win team exemplifies everything wrong with the Knicks organization previous line of thinking. Prior to Phil coming aboard

54 wins to 37

I dont get your point... to me the 54 win was the year we did it right
1) added and got contributions from cheap and saavy vets in Kidd, Kurt, Sheed and Brewer
2) added a guy who could play but didnt have NBA experience (Prigs, and he played great)
3) added low cost unproven guys who fought their way into the rotation (Novak, Copeland)
4) improve from within (JR has a career year)

We are closer to the 54 win team than the 37, assuming Melo stays. If he doesnt its uncharted. As teamball said.. Melo gives you a nice piece to build with (and not around, so TFK can put the pipebomb down). After that we can start figuring things out.

I want to blow it up but not tank.

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Also you don't tank. You expect Shumpert and THJ to give it everything they have

2015 is a lost year.

You think the celtics don't give everything they have every night despite lack of talent?

Why can't the Knicks to the same and then add pieces like the celtics are trying to do?

Or we rather be the Nyets in no mans land?

yes, you play your young players,if they blow up good enough to get you into the playoffs, well you have some valuable assets most likely. if not, you get a top pick.. but the key is to play hard.. Tanking is not something you should try to do.. it should be organic. if you are not gooe enough to qualify for a playoff spot then a lottery pick is your prize..

Even then, you still may be a lottery team, but in the process develop some of the younger players.. that is a win-win situation.

^^ This

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:That 54 win team exemplifies everything wrong with the Knicks organization previous line of thinking. Prior to Phil coming aboard

54 wins to 37

I dont get your point... to me the 54 win was the year we did it right
1) added and got contributions from cheap and saavy vets in Kidd, Kurt, Sheed and Brewer
2) added a guy who could play but didnt have NBA experience (Prigs, and he played great)
3) added low cost unproven guys who fought their way into the rotation (Novak, Copeland)
4) improve from within (JR has a career year)

We are closer to the 54 win team than the 37, assuming Melo stays. If he doesnt its uncharted. As teamball said.. Melo gives you a nice piece to build with (and not around, so TFK can put the pipebomb down). After that we can start figuring things out.

NO we are not! The landscape of the east is quickly changing fish.. what drastic move will the knicks make to take them close to 54 wins..

You still have Indy and miami, and we have 5 teams in the east with multiple first round picks in this draft and they all have cap space... The east probably won't be as weak as it was last year.. The magic, sixers, have a ton of picks, and young stud talent on their teams... I don't see how you can even form your fingers to type what you did...

fish, seriously, you have to stop trying to scotch tape the leaky roof... tear that old, leaky roof off, and put up a new one...

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:That 54 win team exemplifies everything wrong with the Knicks organization previous line of thinking. Prior to Phil coming aboard

54 wins to 37

I dont get your point... to me the 54 win was the year we did it right
1) added and got contributions from cheap and saavy vets in Kidd, Kurt, Sheed and Brewer
2) added a guy who could play but didnt have NBA experience (Prigs, and he played great)
3) added low cost unproven guys who fought their way into the rotation (Novak, Copeland)
4) improve from within (JR has a career year)

We are closer to the 54 win team than the 37, assuming Melo stays. If he doesnt its uncharted. As teamball said.. Melo gives you a nice piece to build with (and not around, so TFK can put the pipebomb down). After that we can start figuring things out.

NO we are not! The landscape of the east is quickly changing fish.. what drastic move will the knicks make to take them close to 54 wins..

You still have Indy and miami, and we have 5 teams in the east with multiple first round picks in this draft and they all have cap space... The east probably won't be as weak as it was last year.. The magic, sixers, have a ton of picks, and young stud talent on their teams... I don't see how you can even form your fingers to type what you did...

fish, seriously, you have to stop trying to scotch tape the leaky roof... tear that old, leaky roof off, and put up a new one...

Your right. Phil sees it also. Why do you think he told Felton he wont be back. Ray is never going to play as well as he did that year. I also have very limited to NO confidence in JR as well who was the #2 scorer that year, thats not a feat I am looking to build back on. What I am looking at are the roles played. Your focused on the players (really one player lets be honest). We didnt lose all stars from that year. We lost very replacable players.

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:That 54 win team exemplifies everything wrong with the Knicks organization previous line of thinking. Prior to Phil coming aboard

54 wins to 37

I dont get your point... to me the 54 win was the year we did it right
1) added and got contributions from cheap and saavy vets in Kidd, Kurt, Sheed and Brewer
2) added a guy who could play but didnt have NBA experience (Prigs, and he played great)
3) added low cost unproven guys who fought their way into the rotation (Novak, Copeland)
4) improve from within (JR has a career year)

We are closer to the 54 win team than the 37, assuming Melo stays. If he doesnt its uncharted. As teamball said.. Melo gives you a nice piece to build with (and not around, so TFK can put the pipebomb down). After that we can start figuring things out.

he is speaking to a larger, forest-level perspective. the franchise has not been run properly, it has been the height of dysfunction. "not a model of intelligent management." you're lost in the trees. 54 wins was a fool's gold, jerry-rigged anomaly. the playoff spanking and the following season implosion is proof enough.

now, with a lesser team, all knick fans should expect is nba-level conditioning and emphasis on defensive effort for 48 minutes next season, and maintain that standard as they recover from this disastrous era.

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:That 54 win team exemplifies everything wrong with the Knicks organization previous line of thinking. Prior to Phil coming aboard

54 wins to 37

I dont get your point... to me the 54 win was the year we did it right
1) added and got contributions from cheap and saavy vets in Kidd, Kurt, Sheed and Brewer
2) added a guy who could play but didnt have NBA experience (Prigs, and he played great)
3) added low cost unproven guys who fought their way into the rotation (Novak, Copeland)
4) improve from within (JR has a career year)

We are closer to the 54 win team than the 37, assuming Melo stays. If he doesnt its uncharted. As teamball said.. Melo gives you a nice piece to build with (and not around, so TFK can put the pipebomb down). After that we can start figuring things out.

We are definitely closer to that 54 win team no doubt. The east still doesn't scare anyone. We need to find those cheap vets and develop from within and we could have a decent season, while preparing for summer 2015. Guys will be motivated to perform with the new leadership and for some, pending contracts. We will have a chance to salvage a decent season and have great momentum going into a very important retooling phase.

An actual defensive philosophy would help tremendously.