Knicks · This big 4 thing is really picking up steam and its horrible in so many ways (page 3)
knicks1248 wrote:tkf wrote:knicks1248 wrote:tkf wrote:I hope it happens if it means getting carmelo out of NY..why, you don't think phil & fisher can turn melo into a smarter player..
they are not god.. you just don't turn someone into a smart player.. I have never heard of that...
are you admitting that he is dumb?
jordan was a volume shooter before phil, so was kobe, chauncy billups was a scorer in college and came into the league clueless as a PG,
Melo is not a dump player, but he's not the sharpest by any stretch. The older you get the more mature you get. Melo said he wasnt oppose to changing his game if phil saw something that would making him a more complete player..
Having two go to guys is a must, 3 is a bit much but one player makes the biggest sacrifice (see bosh)4 is assinine and usually a bitch move.
All i'm saying is why would the league want 3 or 4 of the top scorers on the same team..
WHAT?! Jordan's rookie year he put up 28ppg, 6.5reb, 6asst, and 2.4stls while shooting 51fg% and 84ft%! His advanced stats were 59TS%, 51eFG%, 118ORtg, 25.8PER, 14WS, and .213WS/48!
Anyone who thinks Jordan was just a volume shooter knows nothing about basketball.
VCoug wrote:knicks1248 wrote:tkf wrote:knicks1248 wrote:tkf wrote:I hope it happens if it means getting carmelo out of NY..why, you don't think phil & fisher can turn melo into a smarter player..
they are not god.. you just don't turn someone into a smart player.. I have never heard of that...
are you admitting that he is dumb?
jordan was a volume shooter before phil, so was kobe, chauncy billups was a scorer in college and came into the league clueless as a PG,
Melo is not a dump player, but he's not the sharpest by any stretch. The older you get the more mature you get. Melo said he wasnt oppose to changing his game if phil saw something that would making him a more complete player..
Having two go to guys is a must, 3 is a bit much but one player makes the biggest sacrifice (see bosh)4 is assinine and usually a bitch move.
All i'm saying is why would the league want 3 or 4 of the top scorers on the same team..
WHAT?! Jordan's rookie year he put up 28ppg, 6.5reb, 6asst, and 2.4stls while shooting 51fg% and 84ft%! His advanced stats were 59TS%, 51eFG%, 118ORtg, 25.8PER, 14WS, and .213WS/48!
Anyone who thinks Jordan was just a volume shooter knows nothing about basketball.
He didn't say he was just a volume shooter. He said he was a volume shooter. MJ just happened to be a highly efficient volume shooter. Melo on the other hand is simply an efficient volume shooter.
yellowboy90 wrote:MJ was MJ. Dude avg 30+ pts, 8 rebs, 8 ast, and 3 stls. Who does that? No one is on MJ level.
more like 6 rebounds and 5 assists.
Lebron is at 7 rebounds 7 assists.
yellowboy90 wrote:VCoug wrote:knicks1248 wrote:tkf wrote:knicks1248 wrote:tkf wrote:I hope it happens if it means getting carmelo out of NY..why, you don't think phil & fisher can turn melo into a smarter player..
they are not god.. you just don't turn someone into a smart player.. I have never heard of that...
are you admitting that he is dumb?
jordan was a volume shooter before phil, so was kobe, chauncy billups was a scorer in college and came into the league clueless as a PG,
Melo is not a dump player, but he's not the sharpest by any stretch. The older you get the more mature you get. Melo said he wasnt oppose to changing his game if phil saw something that would making him a more complete player..
Having two go to guys is a must, 3 is a bit much but one player makes the biggest sacrifice (see bosh)4 is assinine and usually a bitch move.
All i'm saying is why would the league want 3 or 4 of the top scorers on the same team..
WHAT?! Jordan's rookie year he put up 28ppg, 6.5reb, 6asst, and 2.4stls while shooting 51fg% and 84ft%! His advanced stats were 59TS%, 51eFG%, 118ORtg, 25.8PER, 14WS, and .213WS/48!
Anyone who thinks Jordan was just a volume shooter knows nothing about basketball.
He didn't say he was just a volume shooter. He said he was a volume shooter. MJ just happened to be a highly efficient volume shooter. Melo on the other hand is simply an efficient volume shooter.
Regardless to what jordan was avg, he wasn't winning at a high rate until phil took over, and If LBJ had a better coach in cleveland he probably would be still there.
I'm just trying to make it clear that IMO a coach is the difference maker when it comes to talented players who can't get over the hump and start blaming it all on the talent around them.
Melo is lost, and if he goes to Miami, he would be dumber than I ever thought he was. It's bad enough that LBJ and Bosh did it, but if melo does it, your going to start seeing the 20 best players in the league on 3 teams.
Thats bad for everybody, the league, the sponsors, the fans, other players.
4 players taking up 95% of the cap on one team.
knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:I think I may stop watching basketball if this happens, the NBA should do everything in their power to stop this from happening, it would completely ruin the league big time.every title won except two in the last 20+ years has been won by a team with 2 super star players or three who were damn close:It's bad enough there are very few stars let alone super stars, but to have all of them on 1 fckng team, who's going to watch that.
This is so stupid
Shaq/Kobe: 3
MJ/Pip: 3
MJ/Pip/Rodman: 3
Duncan/Robinson: 1
Duncan/Manu/Parker: 3
Kobe/Gasol
Isiah/Dumars
KG/Pierce/Ray
Shaq/Wade
etc etc... I ran short on brain power but you get the idea. I think the first Hakeem title (2nd he had Drexler) and the Pistons Larry Brown win were probably the only two titles in the last 25 or 30 years or forever where the champ not only had a superstar player, but a 2nd guy who was at the very worst an all star caliber guy.Point is I dont blame a star for trying to recruit another star or going to play with one when history says if you want to compete for a title thats a prerec
But yea.. a big four is just stupid. I dont see Melo winning that way because they have already won. If he went to Houstons at least he could say he was the piece that brought a title or took them over the top. Joining LBJ doesnt get that done.
Rodman was never consider a super star or even a star, manu is a good player never considered to be top 10, Isiah and dumars were great scorers but that team was known for defense, not offense. KG/pp/ray where not freinds, and they came to boston VIA trades not FA
Drexler played 2 seasons with Houston before he retired, barkley tried to do the same thing and fell flat on his face, he was also at the tale end of his career.
If melo was a 14 yr vet without a ring, I can see him joining a team with multiple stars on it, but cmon dude, this guy force his way to NY, they sacrifce a lot of solid players to get you. Thats like a guy running a marathon, dedcides to take a cab, then hops out a mile before the race ends and yells I won, hands in the air, chest out..
Rodman was the best defender and rebounder in the game....He is also a HOF'er
Other than Magic, Isiah is arguably the best pg to ever play the game and Dumars is in the HOF
Drexler was a little past his prime but was still elite and is in the HOF....
Theres a really good chance that Manu and Tony Parker will both be in the HOF when its all said and done.....
Fish's point is clear and I agree with it 100%. Over the last 25 years with the exception of two teams, every championship team has had at least 2 and in some cases 3 Hall of fame players on the roster.
tkf wrote:knicks1248 wrote:tkf wrote:I hope it happens if it means getting carmelo out of NY..why, you don't think phil & fisher can turn melo into a smarter player..
they are not god.. you just don't turn someone into a smart player.. I have never heard of that...
are you admitting that he is dumb?
Papabear Says
I would love to see Melo and Lebron play together. We or some of us don't appreciate what we have in Melo and if he does go to Miami I would love to see how Phil get us a title in 5 years.
mreinman wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:MJ was MJ. Dude avg 30+ pts, 8 rebs, 8 ast, and 3 stls. Who does that? No one is on MJ level.more like 6 rebounds and 5 assists.
Lebron is at 7 rebounds 7 assists.
I meant one season he avg those numbers. Those numbers for a 2 guard is beyond absurd.
knicks1248 wrote:nyk4ever wrote:tkf wrote:nyk4ever wrote:tkf wrote:I hope it happens if it means getting carmelo out of NY..god you are so pathetic.
nah, pathetic is how you guys are sitting there biting your nails upset over this news... thats pathetic.. I am hoping it comes true.. get him out of here...
why don't you change your name to carmelo4ever?
if you've read any of my posts, which clearl you haven't, i am not a melo-lover whatsoever, but im also not a petty child behind the keyboard and realize that melo is talented and we need him here OR we need to get something for him if he leaves. go back under your rock at realgm.
Clearly TFK is struggling to see the big picture
Papabear Says
No TFK really likes the attention he is getting from us. You know what he is so why bother.
yellowboy90 wrote:Well, reports are now that Fisher, Jackson, and Anthony are meeting tonight. Not sure if Mills will be there, I know he is a fan favorite.
hahaha
Uptown wrote:knicks1248 wrote:fishmike wrote:knicks1248 wrote:I think I may stop watching basketball if this happens, the NBA should do everything in their power to stop this from happening, it would completely ruin the league big time.every title won except two in the last 20+ years has been won by a team with 2 super star players or three who were damn close:It's bad enough there are very few stars let alone super stars, but to have all of them on 1 fckng team, who's going to watch that.
This is so stupid
Shaq/Kobe: 3
MJ/Pip: 3
MJ/Pip/Rodman: 3
Duncan/Robinson: 1
Duncan/Manu/Parker: 3
Kobe/Gasol
Isiah/Dumars
KG/Pierce/Ray
Shaq/Wade
etc etc... I ran short on brain power but you get the idea. I think the first Hakeem title (2nd he had Drexler) and the Pistons Larry Brown win were probably the only two titles in the last 25 or 30 years or forever where the champ not only had a superstar player, but a 2nd guy who was at the very worst an all star caliber guy.Point is I dont blame a star for trying to recruit another star or going to play with one when history says if you want to compete for a title thats a prerec
But yea.. a big four is just stupid. I dont see Melo winning that way because they have already won. If he went to Houstons at least he could say he was the piece that brought a title or took them over the top. Joining LBJ doesnt get that done.
Rodman was never consider a super star or even a star, manu is a good player never considered to be top 10, Isiah and dumars were great scorers but that team was known for defense, not offense. KG/pp/ray where not freinds, and they came to boston VIA trades not FA
Drexler played 2 seasons with Houston before he retired, barkley tried to do the same thing and fell flat on his face, he was also at the tale end of his career.
If melo was a 14 yr vet without a ring, I can see him joining a team with multiple stars on it, but cmon dude, this guy force his way to NY, they sacrifce a lot of solid players to get you. Thats like a guy running a marathon, dedcides to take a cab, then hops out a mile before the race ends and yells I won, hands in the air, chest out..
Rodman was the best defender and rebounder in the game....He is also a HOF'er
Other than Magic, Isiah is arguably the best pg to ever play the game and Dumars is in the HOF
Drexler was a little past his prime but was still elite and is in the HOF....
Theres a really good chance that Manu and Tony Parker will both be in the HOF when its all said and done.....
Fish's point is clear and I agree with it 100%. Over the last 25 years with the exception of two teams, every championship team has had at least 2 and in some cases 3 Hall of fame players on the roster.
Ginobli and Parker go in the HOF because they won. They are really really good, but the rings are what makes then elite.
yellowboy90 wrote:Well, reports are now that Fisher, Jackson, and Anthony are meeting tonight. Not sure if Mills will be there, I know he is a fan favorite.
If Phil Jackson can convince Melo to stay then we are OK. Otherwise we have to hope Phil knows what he is doing and let him build.
Wade looks like a shell of himself- again, he will occasionally look like his former great self - but he can't play a full season- and I would say it would be a toss up if I had to pick between him and Amar'e!
Wade is Ray Allen in 2 years, if not sooner.
yellowboy90 wrote:VCoug wrote:knicks1248 wrote:tkf wrote:knicks1248 wrote:tkf wrote:I hope it happens if it means getting carmelo out of NY..why, you don't think phil & fisher can turn melo into a smarter player..
they are not god.. you just don't turn someone into a smart player.. I have never heard of that...
are you admitting that he is dumb?
jordan was a volume shooter before phil, so was kobe, chauncy billups was a scorer in college and came into the league clueless as a PG,
Melo is not a dump player, but he's not the sharpest by any stretch. The older you get the more mature you get. Melo said he wasnt oppose to changing his game if phil saw something that would making him a more complete player..
Having two go to guys is a must, 3 is a bit much but one player makes the biggest sacrifice (see bosh)4 is assinine and usually a bitch move.
All i'm saying is why would the league want 3 or 4 of the top scorers on the same team..
WHAT?! Jordan's rookie year he put up 28ppg, 6.5reb, 6asst, and 2.4stls while shooting 51fg% and 84ft%! His advanced stats were 59TS%, 51eFG%, 118ORtg, 25.8PER, 14WS, and .213WS/48!
Anyone who thinks Jordan was just a volume shooter knows nothing about basketball.
He didn't say he was just a volume shooter. He said he was a volume shooter. MJ just happened to be a highly efficient volume shooter.
That's clearly not what he meant, though, since he said "before Phil"
Andrew wrote:Melo loses out on an estimated 70m if the 4 spit the cap room projected for the heat. And then that means no ray allen or anyone else unless its the vet min. I dont see all 4 signing with the heat.
It probably wouldn't end up being that big a loss since he could get an opt out in the contract and then a max extension. No doubt, it's still a loss and a financial risk.
Bonn1997 wrote:Andrew wrote:Melo loses out on an estimated 70m if the 4 spit the cap room projected for the heat. And then that means no ray allen or anyone else unless its the vet min. I dont see all 4 signing with the heat.
It probably wouldn't end up being that big a loss since he could get an opt out in the contract and then a max extension. No doubt, it's still a loss and a financial risk.
Especially when your not 100% sure it will result in a championship. I mean 2 players on the same team, that play the same position, both hold the ball, and miamis real problem is the lack of depth, not melo.
knicks1248 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Andrew wrote:Melo loses out on an estimated 70m if the 4 spit the cap room projected for the heat. And then that means no ray allen or anyone else unless its the vet min. I dont see all 4 signing with the heat.
It probably wouldn't end up being that big a loss since he could get an opt out in the contract and then a max extension. No doubt, it's still a loss and a financial risk.Especially when your not 100% sure it will result in a championship. I mean 2 players on the same team, that play the same position, both hold the ball, and miamis real problem is the lack of depth, not melo.
Alternatively, the Heat could jettison Bosh and/or less likely Wade OR offer one or the other or both less than the max. Surely, Wade is NOT a max player anymore and the way Bosh is playing in these finals he doesn't deserve it either. I wonder if the Spurs demolition of the Heat gives Riles the bargaining power he needs to offer them less thereby gaining the little bit of flexibility
needed to sign Melo or Love or whoever.
Bonn1997 wrote:Andrew wrote:Melo loses out on an estimated 70m if the 4 spit the cap room projected for the heat. And then that means no ray allen or anyone else unless its the vet min. I dont see all 4 signing with the heat.
It probably wouldn't end up being that big a loss since he could get an opt out in the contract and then a max extension. No doubt, it's still a loss and a financial risk.
Here is one article that tries to explain the $ numbers in the 4-split and the repercussions. Way to hard to paste article lol
H1AND1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Andrew wrote:Melo loses out on an estimated 70m if the 4 spit the cap room projected for the heat. And then that means no ray allen or anyone else unless its the vet min. I dont see all 4 signing with the heat.
It probably wouldn't end up being that big a loss since he could get an opt out in the contract and then a max extension. No doubt, it's still a loss and a financial risk.Especially when your not 100% sure it will result in a championship. I mean 2 players on the same team, that play the same position, both hold the ball, and miamis real problem is the lack of depth, not melo.
Alternatively, the Heat could jettison Bosh and/or less likely Wade OR offer one or the other or both less than the max. Surely, Wade is NOT a max player anymore and the way Bosh is playing in these finals he doesn't deserve it either. I wonder if the Spurs demolition of the Heat gives Riles the bargaining power he needs to offer them less thereby gaining the little bit of flexibility
needed to sign Melo or Love or whoever.
It still would leave them with no depth, youth, or future. The Heat as consturcted can not hold up against a deep team. They look exactly how they did in the finals against DALLAS, and 1 player won't cure there issues.
So know they want everybody to opt out so they could make room for another max player, and exactly where are you going to find 6 other worthy players to play for a million bucks..Your gonna get washed up players like Oden and Bynum