Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:NardDogNation wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Not only is melo a low IQ player, he's also a Low IQ person in general. I just can't understand why this guy is hell bent on opting out with no real destinantion.
So Melo has been an elite scorer over the course of his career by being "dumb"? That doesn't make any sense.
an elite scorer? not with 45.5FG% and 54.7TS% he isn't elite. and he has averaged 20 shots per game to average 25 points.
does an elite scorer need 20 shots to score 25 points?
So I take it that Kobe was just an "elite" defender? Not an "elite" scorer?
If you say "yes" then I can buy that. You require high efficiency to be an elite scorer.
I'd add elite rebounder and passer too.
And elite fortune in terms of teammate quality.
A .555 TS% is reasonably good too but not elite.
4.8 assists (wade is still holding at 6.0 even though he has slid) and 5.3 rebounds per game is not elite. it all added up to a 55 TS which is certainly not elite (but good).
I do agree that he was very fortunate.
VCoug wrote:TeamBall wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:TeamBall wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TeamBall wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TeamBall wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TeamBall wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:This is bogus. I read repeatedly that there is no market for Melo and that smart GMS would not want him plus coaches don't like him.
I'm sure any GM would take him as the third and most would as the 2nd best player.
And the Knicks? We still want him and he'd clearly be the best player on the team (yes, thats not saying much).
Yeah, you don't want to commit max money to him without already having better max players on the roster.
I don't think Phil would max him out though
OK, you don't want to commit anywhere near max money to him unless you already have better max players on the team.
So you would let Melo go? 'Cause I don't think we get other max players to come here without Melo already on the team.
Yeah, unless you can do an S & T.
I would have never let it get to this point though.
I'm really not savvy with the sign and trade thing. I heard that the Rockets and Bulls would need to free up space to sign Melo but does that mean that they have to trade with us?And yeah personally I may have tried to move him before all star break. The way the season was going I would have thought he was gonna leave anyway.
No they do not have to trade with the Knicks and it wouldn't got that far because he would never been on the roster, i'm guessing.
Lol that one went over my head
As of today, Houston and Chicago are over the salary cap for next season. If either team wants Melon on their team they either need to clear enough cap space to sign him or trade for him. The only real difference between a sign and trade and a regular trade is that the player is a free agent and would need to agree to any trade. It's similar to a player having a no-trade clause.
Well I meant Bonns comment about it never coming to that actually meaning he never would have done the trade in the first place. Thank you though.
Seeing all of the Lin trade scenarios made me think if he chose Houston they'd have to give us something and same with any other team that had to clear space.
dk7th wrote:mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:NardDogNation wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Not only is melo a low IQ player, he's also a Low IQ person in general. I just can't understand why this guy is hell bent on opting out with no real destinantion.
So Melo has been an elite scorer over the course of his career by being "dumb"? That doesn't make any sense.
an elite scorer? not with 45.5FG% and 54.7TS% he isn't elite. and he has averaged 20 shots per game to average 25 points.
does an elite scorer need 20 shots to score 25 points?
So I take it that Kobe was just an "elite" defender? Not an "elite" scorer?
If you say "yes" then I can buy that. You require high efficiency to be an elite scorer.
bryant was never an elite scorer he was a classic "volume scorer." his footwork for setting up his shots has been superb but his decisions have not been good and it's because his ballhandling was suspect. personally i thought he would have had a better career had he focussed on posting up more.
i guess he was an elite defender but i was never that impressed. great player but overrated nonetheless. the triangle saved him. it helped him be a better sharer of the ball than the "ball hog" epithet would describe. jackson once called him un-coachable and i can certainly see why.
Ok ... if you are gonna be anti Melo, at least you are consistent. You hate ball hogs/chuckers - thats fair.
Not comparing the two but if you hate that style that at least be consistent.
The reason why Melo does not bother me as much is that people see his faults and metrics have shown what he is. With Kobe people are just way off because of relying solely on the stupid eye test. Same with AI (though on a far more blinded scale).
Like Vcoug, I and others have pointed out there is no way the knicks can get Parsons in a trade as long as they are over the Apron. Trading Melo Alone without getting anything will keep the Knicks 5m over the Apron so people need to get Parsons out of an trade scenarios.
I myself think Melo stays and he eventually becomes the gm in the next 15 years which would crush some fans.
mreinman wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:mreinman wrote:dk7th wrote:NardDogNation wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Not only is melo a low IQ player, he's also a Low IQ person in general. I just can't understand why this guy is hell bent on opting out with no real destinantion.
So Melo has been an elite scorer over the course of his career by being "dumb"? That doesn't make any sense.
an elite scorer? not with 45.5FG% and 54.7TS% he isn't elite. and he has averaged 20 shots per game to average 25 points.
does an elite scorer need 20 shots to score 25 points?
So I take it that Kobe was just an "elite" defender? Not an "elite" scorer?
If you say "yes" then I can buy that. You require high efficiency to be an elite scorer.
I'd add elite rebounder and passer too.
And elite fortune in terms of teammate quality.
A .555 TS% is reasonably good too but not elite.
4.8 assists (wade is still holding at 6.0 even though he has slid) and 5.3 rebounds per game is not elite. it all added up to a 55 TS which is certainly not elite (but good).
I do agree that he was very fortunate.
In his prime years, he averaged anywhere from 5 to 7 RPG. For an SG, that is very good if not elite.
I haven't tallied up the assists but my guess is he's had by light years the most total assists for a shooting guard over the past 15 years. He's the only player that is top 3 among SGs in assists every year. Whether you want to call these numbers elite or just very good is up for debate though.
TeamBall wrote:VCoug wrote:TeamBall wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:TeamBall wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TeamBall wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TeamBall wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TeamBall wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:This is bogus. I read repeatedly that there is no market for Melo and that smart GMS would not want him plus coaches don't like him.
I'm sure any GM would take him as the third and most would as the 2nd best player.
And the Knicks? We still want him and he'd clearly be the best player on the team (yes, thats not saying much).
Yeah, you don't want to commit max money to him without already having better max players on the roster.
I don't think Phil would max him out though
OK, you don't want to commit anywhere near max money to him unless you already have better max players on the team.
So you would let Melo go? 'Cause I don't think we get other max players to come here without Melo already on the team.
Yeah, unless you can do an S & T.
I would have never let it get to this point though.
I'm really not savvy with the sign and trade thing. I heard that the Rockets and Bulls would need to free up space to sign Melo but does that mean that they have to trade with us?And yeah personally I may have tried to move him before all star break. The way the season was going I would have thought he was gonna leave anyway.
No they do not have to trade with the Knicks and it wouldn't got that far because he would never been on the roster, i'm guessing.
Lol that one went over my head
As of today, Houston and Chicago are over the salary cap for next season. If either team wants Melon on their team they either need to clear enough cap space to sign him or trade for him. The only real difference between a sign and trade and a regular trade is that the player is a free agent and would need to agree to any trade. It's similar to a player having a no-trade clause.
Well I meant Bonns comment about it never coming to that actually meaning he never would have done the trade in the first place. Thank you though.Seeing all of the Lin trade scenarios made me think if he chose Houston they'd have to give us something and same with any other team that had to clear space.
Oh, I actually just meant that I would have traded Melo a while ago. But it's true that I wouldn't have traded for him either.
yellowboy90 wrote:Like Vcoug, I and others have pointed out there is no way the knicks can get Parsons in a trade as long as they are over the Apron. Trading Melo Alone without getting anything will keep the Knicks 5m over the Apron so people need to get Parsons out of an trade scenarios.I myself think Melo stays and he eventually becomes the gm in the next 15 years which would crush some fans.
I disagree. They can sign parsons. And include him in a trade.
babyKnicks wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Like Vcoug, I and others have pointed out there is no way the knicks can get Parsons in a trade as long as they are over the Apron. Trading Melo Alone without getting anything will keep the Knicks 5m over the Apron so people need to get Parsons out of an trade scenarios.I myself think Melo stays and he eventually becomes the gm in the next 15 years which would crush some fans.
I disagree. They can sign parsons. And include him in a trade.
Because he's a free agent if Parsons isn't S&T then there's a waiting period until he's eligible to be traded that lasts until December.
babyKnicks wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Like Vcoug, I and others have pointed out there is no way the knicks can get Parsons in a trade as long as they are over the Apron. Trading Melo Alone without getting anything will keep the Knicks 5m over the Apron so people need to get Parsons out of an trade scenarios.I myself think Melo stays and he eventually becomes the gm in the next 15 years which would crush some fans.
I disagree. They can sign parsons. And include him in a trade.
It sounds like he's talking about the CBA, not an opinion open for agreement/disagreement.
fitzfarm wrote:NardDogNation wrote:fitzfarm wrote:Difference contract wise we can let mkg walk after next year and jr has a eto which I doubt he will exercise.
We need to get rid of JR Smith, I agree. I just don't think that the Bobcats would assume his contract, especially for a guy they value. The only team I could see wanting JR (outside of being packaged with Melo) is the Nets. Pablo Prigioni, JR Smith, Kenyon Martin and Raymond Felton for Marcus Thornton (expirer), Marquis Teague (expirer) and a $3 million trade exception works financially. Jason Kidd has the rapport with those guys to be able to vouch for them and has the veteran leadership to corral JR when he starts acting like a moron. Other than that, expect for JR to remain a Knick.
I like that deal but my hate for the nets is strong and I wouldn't want to help them one bit
As long as it benefits us, why should we care?
Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?
At some point GS gets in on a rumor.
Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson
Where's Dlee and Barnes???
In NY.
Nalod wrote:Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?At some point GS gets in on a rumor.
Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson
Where's Dlee and Barnes???
In NY.
the more the news dies down, the more I'm optimistic about the knicks not only in 2016, but next year.
Chandler
Bargs
Amare
Odom
Shump
JR
Hardaway
Prigs
We add anybody of substance or KEEP MELO and we win the division.
babyKnicks wrote:Nalod wrote:Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?At some point GS gets in on a rumor.
Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson
Where's Dlee and Barnes???
In NY.
the more the news dies down, the more I'm optimistic about the knicks not only in 2016, but next year.
Chandler
Bargs
Amare
Odom
Shump
JR
Hardaway
Prigs
We add anybody of substance or KEEP MELO and we win the division.
That core without Melo is about a .300 team and with him a .400 team. It's basically an older version of last year's team.
babyKnicks wrote:Nalod wrote:Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?At some point GS gets in on a rumor.
Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson
Where's Dlee and Barnes???
In NY.
the more the news dies down, the more I'm optimistic about the knicks not only in 2016, but next year.
Chandler
Bargs
Amare
Odom
Shump
JR
Hardaway
Prigs
We add anybody of substance or KEEP MELO and we win the division.
Odom and Amare cannot be counted on at all. The division?
Who can tell, the rosters are what they were at seasons end. That changes soon for everybody.
How can anyone make any kind of prediction?
babyKnicks wrote:Nalod wrote:Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?At some point GS gets in on a rumor.
Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson
Where's Dlee and Barnes???
In NY.
the more the news dies down, the more I'm optimistic about the knicks not only in 2016, but next year.
Chandler
Bargs
Amare
Odom
Shump
JR
Hardaway
Prigs
We add anybody of substance or KEEP MELO and we win the division.
I mean, I'm the homer's homer, but how exactly does that top four there equate to winning anything? Magic injury/flu/personal issues-free dust?
Bonn1997 wrote:babyKnicks wrote:Nalod wrote:Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?At some point GS gets in on a rumor.
Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson
Where's Dlee and Barnes???
In NY.
the more the news dies down, the more I'm optimistic about the knicks not only in 2016, but next year.
Chandler
Bargs
Amare
Odom
Shump
JR
Hardaway
Prigs
We add anybody of substance or KEEP MELO and we win the division.
That core without Melo is about a .300 team and with him a .400 team. It's basically an older version of last year's team.
throw away Bargs add Cole and without Felton you have a 50 win team. Also, did you see Diaw comments about Woodson? Coaching and a different system will help.
Nalod wrote:Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?At some point GS gets in on a rumor.
Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson
Where's Dlee and Barnes???
In NY.
I've thought about the Warriors. I'm not crazy about Barnes and I think he's going to level out to become Chris Morris 2.0. But there are a lot o people out there who think he can pan out into star. I would try to get Klay Thompson included instead. Ultimately, I think Kevin Love ends up in Golden State. They can give David Lee, who can minimize the drop off in production they'll face with Love, Thompson, Barnes and whoever else they want. There's two more years left on Lee's contract, so that might make the Wolves hesitate a little.
yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:babyKnicks wrote:Nalod wrote:Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?At some point GS gets in on a rumor.
Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson
Where's Dlee and Barnes???
In NY.
the more the news dies down, the more I'm optimistic about the knicks not only in 2016, but next year.
Chandler
Bargs
Amare
Odom
Shump
JR
Hardaway
Prigs
We add anybody of substance or KEEP MELO and we win the division.
That core without Melo is about a .300 team and with him a .400 team. It's basically an older version of last year's team.
throw away Bargs add Cole and without Felton you have a 50 win team. Also, did you see Diaw comments about Woodson? Coaching and a different system will help.
I doubt it. Woody coached the team roughly to the record all the metrics predicted he would.
Even if we do keep Melo, what FA is going to want to join him after we've had back to back .400 seasons?
Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:babyKnicks wrote:Nalod wrote:Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?At some point GS gets in on a rumor.
Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson
Where's Dlee and Barnes???
In NY.
the more the news dies down, the more I'm optimistic about the knicks not only in 2016, but next year.
Chandler
Bargs
Amare
Odom
Shump
JR
Hardaway
Prigs
We add anybody of substance or KEEP MELO and we win the division.
That core without Melo is about a .300 team and with him a .400 team. It's basically an older version of last year's team.
throw away Bargs add Cole and without Felton you have a 50 win team. Also, did you see Diaw comments about Woodson? Coaching and a different system will help.
I doubt it. Woody coached the team roughly to the record all the metrics predicted he would.
Even if we do keep Melo, what FA is going to want to join him after we've had back to back .400 seasons?
Those metrics were based on Felton and Bargs contributions, no? That's a bunch of minutes that could go to better players. Throw in the fact that Tyson is in a contract year and I think the teams win 48-54 games if Melo is kept and Felton and Bargs do not play.
yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:babyKnicks wrote:Nalod wrote:Can Melo opt in, Then Traded, Then extended?At some point GS gets in on a rumor.
Bogut
Melo
Iggy
Curry
Thomson
Where's Dlee and Barnes???
In NY.
the more the news dies down, the more I'm optimistic about the knicks not only in 2016, but next year.
Chandler
Bargs
Amare
Odom
Shump
JR
Hardaway
Prigs
We add anybody of substance or KEEP MELO and we win the division.
That core without Melo is about a .300 team and with him a .400 team. It's basically an older version of last year's team.
throw away Bargs add Cole and without Felton you have a 50 win team. Also, did you see Diaw comments about Woodson? Coaching and a different system will help.
I doubt it. Woody coached the team roughly to the record all the metrics predicted he would.
Even if we do keep Melo, what FA is going to want to join him after we've had back to back .400 seasons?
Those metrics were based on Felton and Bargs contributions, no? That's a bunch of minutes that could go to better players. Throw in the fact that Tyson is in a contract year and I think the teams win 48-54 games if Melo is kept and Felton and Bargs do not play.
Dont the Knicks have $3 million dollars to spend on FA's? What all world talents are we getting for $3 million?
