Knicks · How Can Kyrie Irving Negotiate His Way Out of Cleveland in 2015? (page 1)
On a separate note, would a Marcus Smart and assets be enough to entice the Cavs into doing a sign and trade?
NardDogNation wrote:We all know that he's disgruntled and wants to bolt. But, he is a restricted free agent in 2015, which makes it unlikely that he'll be able to leave Cleveland without them matching. Is there anything in the CBA protocol where he can shirk the designation then or in order to leave? Is it still possible for him to sign a one year tender to become an unrestricted free agent in 2016?On a separate note, would a Marcus Smart and assets be enough to entice the Cavs into doing a sign and trade?
He could sign a one year deal, but that's a lot of guaranteed money for him to turn down. I's risky, especially when you consider his injury history. Especially when it's his first max. If the Cavs seriously believe the have a shot at LeBron, then I can't see them doing a sign and trade with Irving now. Then again, I don't see them having a realistic shot at LeBron either.
BigDaddyG wrote:NardDogNation wrote:We all know that he's disgruntled and wants to bolt. But, he is a restricted free agent in 2015, which makes it unlikely that he'll be able to leave Cleveland without them matching. Is there anything in the CBA protocol where he can shirk the designation then or in order to leave? Is it still possible for him to sign a one year tender to become an unrestricted free agent in 2016?On a separate note, would a Marcus Smart and assets be enough to entice the Cavs into doing a sign and trade?
He could sign a one year deal, but that's a lot of guaranteed money for him to turn down. I's risky, especially when you consider his injury history. Especially when it's his first max. If the Cavs seriously believe the have a shot at LeBron, then I can't see them doing a sign and trade with Irving now. Then again, I don't see them having a realistic shot at LeBron either.
We'll know about LeBron and his new decision by mid-July, which is right around the corner. If he sticks in MIA like we both expect, I think that the writing would be on the wall for Kyrie's departure. I think that will be our window to try and leverage our assets (from a Melo and Tyson deal) for him. The Cavs can be kinda stingy though. I remember Anderson Varejao and Sasha Pavlovic missing the first month of a season a few years back because of their reluctance to agree to terms or trade them. I could imagine things getting even dirtier with Kyrie.
EnySpree wrote:Kyrie is not worth a max deal. Dude needs to learn how to play point guard first. He's super talented but he is not a point guard. Cavs as is have enough talent to win. They have the #1 pick so that should help that cause.....but they don't do anything until Kyrie learns how to pass and run a team and make his team better.
He wouldn't have to do any of that in New York because the triangle operates best with a PG that can function as a 2 guard. Considering that Kyrie's offensive skillset resembles a young, 6"3' Kobe Bryant, he'd be more than fine in our system. If he ever developed a post game, we'd be taking about a first team All-NBA player. I'd certainly max a talent like that out.
EnySpree wrote:Kyrie is not worth a max deal. Dude needs to learn how to play point guard first. He's super talented but he is not a point guard. Cavs as is have enough talent to win. They have the #1 pick so that should help that cause.....but they don't do anything until Kyrie learns how to pass and run a team and make his team better.
Agree, but John Wall got a max deal last year with many of the sane questions surrounding his game. There's no way I "settle" for less than max if I'm Kyrie's agent.
BigDaddyG wrote:EnySpree wrote:Kyrie is not worth a max deal. Dude needs to learn how to play point guard first. He's super talented but he is not a point guard. Cavs as is have enough talent to win. They have the #1 pick so that should help that cause.....but they don't do anything until Kyrie learns how to pass and run a team and make his team better.
Agree, but John Wall got a max deal last year with many of the sane questions surrounding his game. There's no way I "settle" for less than max if I'm Kyrie's agent.
John Wall looks pretty good now and is getting close to a top 5 point guard.
Dagger wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EnySpree wrote:Kyrie is not worth a max deal. Dude needs to learn how to play point guard first. He's super talented but he is not a point guard. Cavs as is have enough talent to win. They have the #1 pick so that should help that cause.....but they don't do anything until Kyrie learns how to pass and run a team and make his team better.
Agree, but John Wall got a max deal last year with many of the sane questions surrounding his game. There's no way I "settle" for less than max if I'm Kyrie's agent.John Wall looks pretty good now and is getting close to a top 5 point guard.
Wall and a guy like Brandon Jennings finally figured out point guards make their money passing the ball and running the show.
Kyrie getting money isn't the issue. His game needs to change. He's not 6'8" so he can't be kobe. He's the point guard, he's gotta find his inner isiah thomas. He has all the tools to be that good. His team doesn't win with him playing the way he does.
Dagger wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EnySpree wrote:Kyrie is not worth a max deal. Dude needs to learn how to play point guard first. He's super talented but he is not a point guard. Cavs as is have enough talent to win. They have the #1 pick so that should help that cause.....but they don't do anything until Kyrie learns how to pass and run a team and make his team better.
Agree, but John Wall got a max deal last year with many of the sane questions surrounding his game. There's no way I "settle" for less than max if I'm Kyrie's agent.John Wall looks pretty good now and is getting close to a top 5 point guard.
He looks pretty good NOW. Before he got that extension, he was a major risk as a player and as far as health is concerned. As much as I like Wall, I think that Kyrie has always been the superior player.
EnySpree wrote:Dagger wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EnySpree wrote:Kyrie is not worth a max deal. Dude needs to learn how to play point guard first. He's super talented but he is not a point guard. Cavs as is have enough talent to win. They have the #1 pick so that should help that cause.....but they don't do anything until Kyrie learns how to pass and run a team and make his team better.
Agree, but John Wall got a max deal last year with many of the sane questions surrounding his game. There's no way I "settle" for less than max if I'm Kyrie's agent.John Wall looks pretty good now and is getting close to a top 5 point guard.
Wall and a guy like Brandon Jennings finally figured out point guards make their money passing the ball and running the show.
Kyrie getting money isn't the issue. His game needs to change. He's not 6'8" so he can't be kobe. He's the point guard, he's gotta find his inner isiah thomas. He has all the tools to be that good. His team doesn't win with him playing the way he does.
Kobe's 6"6' and considering the physical advantage Kyrie has over PG's, there is no reason for him to not be able to do some of the same things.
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Dagger wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EnySpree wrote:Kyrie is not worth a max deal. Dude needs to learn how to play point guard first. He's super talented but he is not a point guard. Cavs as is have enough talent to win. They have the #1 pick so that should help that cause.....but they don't do anything until Kyrie learns how to pass and run a team and make his team better.
Agree, but John Wall got a max deal last year with many of the sane questions surrounding his game. There's no way I "settle" for less than max if I'm Kyrie's agent.John Wall looks pretty good now and is getting close to a top 5 point guard.
Wall and a guy like Brandon Jennings finally figured out point guards make their money passing the ball and running the show.
Kyrie getting money isn't the issue. His game needs to change. He's not 6'8" so he can't be kobe. He's the point guard, he's gotta find his inner isiah thomas. He has all the tools to be that good. His team doesn't win with him playing the way he does.
Kobe's 6"6' and considering the physical advantage Kyrie has over PG's, there is no reason for him to not be able to do some of the same things.
But why would you want Kyrie being Kobe? Your point guard has to be able to run a team. Kyrie can't do that yet.
From what I have read the problem he had existed with Mike Brown. That problem now gone he has a big season to show his value as a max player if not to Clev, then to those who might sign him. 2015 if he is restricted and Clev thinks he is not that kind of player, they run the risk of losing hiim to a team that throws that kind of money at him. If Lebron opts out but stays in Miami then I would imagine Lebron is commited again for a few years to Heat and Clev moves on.
Its a fluid situation. At the same time Cavs can trade him at any time rather than lose him to a team that values him as a max player.
WHile I doubt KLove would see Cavs as a preferred destination, "Uncle Drew" is his buddy and they could form a nice tandem for years to come.
Nalod thinks KLove is everything Christian Laettner was SUPPOSED to be in the pro's!
Add Lebron to that mix and you might have a few rings.
Nalod wrote:
From what I have read the problem he had existed with Mike Brown. That problem now gone he has a big season to show his value as a max player if not to Clev, then to those who might sign him. 2015 if he is restricted and Clev thinks he is not that kind of player, they run the risk of losing hiim to a team that throws that kind of money at him. If Lebron opts out but stays in Miami then I would imagine Lebron is commited again for a few years to Heat and Clev moves on.Its a fluid situation. At the same time Cavs can trade him at any time rather than lose him to a team that values him as a max player.
WHile I doubt KLove would see Cavs as a preferred destination, "Uncle Drew" is his buddy and they could form a nice tandem for years to come.Nalod thinks KLove is everything Christian Laettner was SUPPOSED to be in the pro's!
Add Lebron to that mix and you might have a few rings.
That situation makes alot of sense. LeBron going back home with Kyrie....draft that center #1 too and they look like contenders.
LeBron would make Kyrie's development as a point guard non essential so it works. They liked great with each other in the all star game.
Don't sleep on Cleveland trying to get Melo either. Melo, Lebron and Kyrie with the rest.... That's another possible championship squad
EnySpree wrote:Nalod wrote:
From what I have read the problem he had existed with Mike Brown. That problem now gone he has a big season to show his value as a max player if not to Clev, then to those who might sign him. 2015 if he is restricted and Clev thinks he is not that kind of player, they run the risk of losing hiim to a team that throws that kind of money at him. If Lebron opts out but stays in Miami then I would imagine Lebron is commited again for a few years to Heat and Clev moves on.Its a fluid situation. At the same time Cavs can trade him at any time rather than lose him to a team that values him as a max player.
WHile I doubt KLove would see Cavs as a preferred destination, "Uncle Drew" is his buddy and they could form a nice tandem for years to come.Nalod thinks KLove is everything Christian Laettner was SUPPOSED to be in the pro's!
Add Lebron to that mix and you might have a few rings.
That situation makes alot of sense. LeBron going back home with Kyrie....draft that center #1 too and they look like contenders.
LeBron would make Kyrie's development as a point guard non essential so it works. They liked great with each other in the all star game.
Don't sleep on Cleveland trying to get Melo either. Melo, Lebron and Kyrie with the rest.... That's another possible championship squad
If you consider what a Lebron or Melo can do to open the middle up for Kyrie its very appealing. Heat always did great when Cole or Rio were able to penetrate. He got to the rim because you can't leave Lebron or wade open. Bosh outside shot has to be respected.
Kyrie is a wonderful penetrating PG and if surrounded by quality he will find lots of holes to the rim, or players open when those holes close.
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Dagger wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EnySpree wrote:Kyrie is not worth a max deal. Dude needs to learn how to play point guard first. He's super talented but he is not a point guard. Cavs as is have enough talent to win. They have the #1 pick so that should help that cause.....but they don't do anything until Kyrie learns how to pass and run a team and make his team better.
Agree, but John Wall got a max deal last year with many of the sane questions surrounding his game. There's no way I "settle" for less than max if I'm Kyrie's agent.John Wall looks pretty good now and is getting close to a top 5 point guard.
Wall and a guy like Brandon Jennings finally figured out point guards make their money passing the ball and running the show.
Kyrie getting money isn't the issue. His game needs to change. He's not 6'8" so he can't be kobe. He's the point guard, he's gotta find his inner isiah thomas. He has all the tools to be that good. His team doesn't win with him playing the way he does.
Kobe's 6"6' and considering the physical advantage Kyrie has over PG's, there is no reason for him to not be able to do some of the same things.
But why would you want Kyrie being Kobe? Your point guard has to be able to run a team. Kyrie can't do that yet.
The triangle doesn't embrace a conventional PG because the system itself is what is used to find players' shots. That is why Kyrie Irving would be perfect, as he is, in the system because he's far more a scoring PG than a passing one. And when I look at him play on the court, he resembles a young Kobe Bryant with better, more meaningful ball handling skills, which allow me to think that he could fill that role well.
The comparison is hard for you to see because you probably envision Kobe to be the pure gunner that everyone mistakeningly characterizes him to be but the reality is that Kobe averaged about 5-6apg during his heyday. I think that Kyrie is the better passer and could outpace him in that respect but they are quite similar.
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Dagger wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EnySpree wrote:Kyrie is not worth a max deal. Dude needs to learn how to play point guard first. He's super talented but he is not a point guard. Cavs as is have enough talent to win. They have the #1 pick so that should help that cause.....but they don't do anything until Kyrie learns how to pass and run a team and make his team better.
Agree, but John Wall got a max deal last year with many of the sane questions surrounding his game. There's no way I "settle" for less than max if I'm Kyrie's agent.John Wall looks pretty good now and is getting close to a top 5 point guard.
Wall and a guy like Brandon Jennings finally figured out point guards make their money passing the ball and running the show.
Kyrie getting money isn't the issue. His game needs to change. He's not 6'8" so he can't be kobe. He's the point guard, he's gotta find his inner isiah thomas. He has all the tools to be that good. His team doesn't win with him playing the way he does.
Kobe's 6"6' and considering the physical advantage Kyrie has over PG's, there is no reason for him to not be able to do some of the same things.
But why would you want Kyrie being Kobe? Your point guard has to be able to run a team. Kyrie can't do that yet.
It looks like Cleveland is going to offer Kyrie the five year max next month. That franchise probably has too many hangups to try and play it tough while negotiating with it's stars.
BigDaddyG wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Dagger wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EnySpree wrote:Kyrie is not worth a max deal. Dude needs to learn how to play point guard first. He's super talented but he is not a point guard. Cavs as is have enough talent to win. They have the #1 pick so that should help that cause.....but they don't do anything until Kyrie learns how to pass and run a team and make his team better.
Agree, but John Wall got a max deal last year with many of the sane questions surrounding his game. There's no way I "settle" for less than max if I'm Kyrie's agent.John Wall looks pretty good now and is getting close to a top 5 point guard.
Wall and a guy like Brandon Jennings finally figured out point guards make their money passing the ball and running the show.
Kyrie getting money isn't the issue. His game needs to change. He's not 6'8" so he can't be kobe. He's the point guard, he's gotta find his inner isiah thomas. He has all the tools to be that good. His team doesn't win with him playing the way he does.
Kobe's 6"6' and considering the physical advantage Kyrie has over PG's, there is no reason for him to not be able to do some of the same things.
But why would you want Kyrie being Kobe? Your point guard has to be able to run a team. Kyrie can't do that yet.
It looks like Cleveland is going to offer Kyrie the five year max next month. That franchise probably has too many hangups to try and play it tough while negotiating with it's stars.
Will he sign it???
Nalod wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Dagger wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EnySpree wrote:Kyrie is not worth a max deal. Dude needs to learn how to play point guard first. He's super talented but he is not a point guard. Cavs as is have enough talent to win. They have the #1 pick so that should help that cause.....but they don't do anything until Kyrie learns how to pass and run a team and make his team better.
Agree, but John Wall got a max deal last year with many of the sane questions surrounding his game. There's no way I "settle" for less than max if I'm Kyrie's agent.John Wall looks pretty good now and is getting close to a top 5 point guard.
Wall and a guy like Brandon Jennings finally figured out point guards make their money passing the ball and running the show.
Kyrie getting money isn't the issue. His game needs to change. He's not 6'8" so he can't be kobe. He's the point guard, he's gotta find his inner isiah thomas. He has all the tools to be that good. His team doesn't win with him playing the way he does.
Kobe's 6"6' and considering the physical advantage Kyrie has over PG's, there is no reason for him to not be able to do some of the same things.
But why would you want Kyrie being Kobe? Your point guard has to be able to run a team. Kyrie can't do that yet.
It looks like Cleveland is going to offer Kyrie the five year max next month. That franchise probably has too many hangups to try and play it tough while negotiating with it's stars.Will he sign it???
It'd be hard to turn down your first max deal. I could easily see him pulling a Kevin Love and opting out three years later tho.
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:Dagger wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:EnySpree wrote:Kyrie is not worth a max deal. Dude needs to learn how to play point guard first. He's super talented but he is not a point guard. Cavs as is have enough talent to win. They have the #1 pick so that should help that cause.....but they don't do anything until Kyrie learns how to pass and run a team and make his team better.
Agree, but John Wall got a max deal last year with many of the sane questions surrounding his game. There's no way I "settle" for less than max if I'm Kyrie's agent.John Wall looks pretty good now and is getting close to a top 5 point guard.
Wall and a guy like Brandon Jennings finally figured out point guards make their money passing the ball and running the show.
Kyrie getting money isn't the issue. His game needs to change. He's not 6'8" so he can't be kobe. He's the point guard, he's gotta find his inner isiah thomas. He has all the tools to be that good. His team doesn't win with him playing the way he does.
Kobe's 6"6' and considering the physical advantage Kyrie has over PG's, there is no reason for him to not be able to do some of the same things.
But why would you want Kyrie being Kobe? Your point guard has to be able to run a team. Kyrie can't do that yet.
The triangle doesn't embrace a conventional PG because the system itself is what is used to find players' shots. That is why Kyrie Irving would be perfect, as he is, in the system because he's far more a scoring PG than a passing one. And when I look at him play on the court, he resembles a young Kobe Bryant with better, more meaningful ball handling skills, which allow me to think that he could fill that role well.
The comparison is hard for you to see because you probably envision Kobe to be the pure gunner that everyone mistakeningly characterizes him to be but the reality is that Kobe averaged about 5-6apg during his heyday. I think that Kyrie is the better passer and could outpace him in that respect but they are quite similar.
Well nobody was talking about the triangle. Kobe Bryant just because he averages high assists doesn't mean he's a point guard. Just like Lebron is a small fwd even though he's better than his teammates at every statistic. Kyrie is a Point guard. He doesn't have a pgs for game. He needs to develop that. He's not like Russell Westbrook. Westbrook is masquerading as a point guard but he's a scorer. Every time down Russell wants to shoot. They are different physically and Kyrie needs to be that floor general.
Nalod wrote:Isn't Kyrie really another CP3?
I think he could be that if he wanted to. I think his skillset allows him to be any number of things.