Knicks · Despite the press about Melo's "best fit", Rose's interests lie elsewhere... (page 1)
All things being equal, this is harmless, but if Melo was put off by Phil's remarks about how the Knicks can and will move on with or without him this one isn't going to go over any better.
Rose it actually why I think folks everywhere are overrating the Bulls like mad. He hasn't spent any real time in a game in two seasons, he's essentially damaged goods, and he's unable to keep his mouth shut. If I'm Anthony, my entry to Chicago would ideally coincide with Rose's departure.
That said, he could fully recover and regain his MVP abilities, albeit unlikely. As a Knick fan, I'm sad to see all these players talking about going to Chi-town or Lakerville to continue a legacy instead of building one in a town starved for a championship. The next Knicks team that wins a chip will know love and adoration on such a huge and sincere level that it's hard to fathom.
Lastly, I'm in a seemingly huge minority, but I would prefer Melo staying, ideally at a significant discount to allow for growth in 2015 and beyond. However, I don't see it happening...the discount thing that is. If he stays, he's going to get as much as he can.
grillco wrote:http://www.csnchicago.com/bulls/report-derrick-rose-prefers-kevin-love-carmelo-anthony?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahooAll things being equal, this is harmless, but if Melo was put off by Phil's remarks about how the Knicks can and will move on with or without him this one isn't going to go over any better.
Rose it actually why I think folks everywhere are overrating the Bulls like mad. He hasn't spent any real time in a game in two seasons, he's essentially damaged goods, and he's unable to keep his mouth shut. If I'm Anthony, my entry to Chicago would ideally coincide with Rose's departure.
That said, he could fully recover and regain his MVP abilities, albeit unlikely. As a Knick fan, I'm sad to see all these players talking about going to Chi-town or Lakerville to continue a legacy instead of building one in a town starved for a championship. The next Knicks team that wins a chip will know love and adoration on such a huge and sincere level that it's hard to fathom.
Lastly, I'm in a seemingly huge minority, but I would prefer Melo staying, ideally at a significant discount to allow for growth in 2015 and beyond. However, I don't see it happening...the discount thing that is. If he stays, he's going to get as much as he can.
Well the Knicks haven't won championships because the front office makes stupid moves. Its hard to trust Knicks management to do the right thing so trying to build one in NY or Cleveland or Minny etc is a lot harder. The worst thing about NY though is that if you don't win you get killed. If you don't win in Cleveland or Minny no one really cares. If Melo fails in Chicago he isn't going to get the same heat that he does if he fails in NY.
The hope is that Phil Jackson can change this as he helped do in Chi-town and Lakerville. At the same time Chicago hasn't won any championships since Jordan left and were terrible for close to a decade until Rose got there. Lakers don't have the same management they have had in the past. Boston would be the most trusted org to get that Chip truthfully.
anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.
Bonn1997 wrote:anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.
I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.
Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.
Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.
Bonn1997 wrote:So in your opinion Melo can take a team that can get out of the first round to the ECF or finals. InterestingVmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.
Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:So in your opinion Melo can take a team that can get out of the first round to the ECF or finals. InterestingVmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.
Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.
He can take a 48 win team to the 54 win level in my opinion, and if the east deteriorates enough, that might be enough. I don't place any emphasis on the fact that they lost in the first round - that's too small a sample, Fish. You should know that by now!
Bonn1997 wrote:the 5-6 wins doesnt matter. What matters is the Bulls lose in the first round. You said add Melo and they are in the conf finals or NBA finals (fairly mentioning the Heat's status having a big impact). Would you like to retract your statement or do you hold to what you said?fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:So in your opinion Melo can take a team that can get out of the first round to the ECF or finals. InterestingVmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.
Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.
He can take a 48 win team to the 54 win level in my opinion, and if the east deteriorates enough, that might be enough. I don't place any emphasis on the fact that they lost in the first round - that's too small a sample, Fish. You should know that by now!
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:the 5-6 wins doesnt matter. What matters is the Bulls lose in the first round. You said add Melo and they are in the conf finals or NBA finals (fairly mentioning the Heat's status having a big impact). Would you like to retract your statement or do you hold to what you said?fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:So in your opinion Melo can take a team that can get out of the first round to the ECF or finals. InterestingVmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.
Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.
He can take a 48 win team to the 54 win level in my opinion, and if the east deteriorates enough, that might be enough. I don't place any emphasis on the fact that they lost in the first round - that's too small a sample, Fish. You should know that by now!
I hold to my statement and reject the bold portion of your statement (for reasons already mentioned in my previous reply).
Bonn1997 wrote:Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.
Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.
who exactly do the BULLs have after Rose and Noah, butlers gone, gibsons gone, boozer gone. Liek I keep saying, they will be rail thin at every postion.
what do they have left, fredette, augastine, Lou, snell..lol
knicks1248 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.
Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.who exactly do the BULLs have after Rose and Noah, butlers gone, gibsons gone, boozer gone. Liek I keep saying, they will be rail thin at every postion.
what do they have left, fredette, augastine, Lou, snell..lol
what? When did Butler, Gibson leave?
Bonn1997 wrote:so you reject what? The second part wasnt a statement it was a fact. Bulls have lost in the first round for two years in a row. You said if they add Melo they compete for a title and most likely make the NBA finals or at worst ECF. Pretty straightforward no?fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:the 5-6 wins doesnt matter. What matters is the Bulls lose in the first round. You said add Melo and they are in the conf finals or NBA finals (fairly mentioning the Heat's status having a big impact). Would you like to retract your statement or do you hold to what you said?fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:So in your opinion Melo can take a team that can get out of the first round to the ECF or finals. InterestingVmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.
Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.
He can take a 48 win team to the 54 win level in my opinion, and if the east deteriorates enough, that might be enough. I don't place any emphasis on the fact that they lost in the first round - that's too small a sample, Fish. You should know that by now!I hold to my statement and reject the bold portion of your statement (for reasons already mentioned in my previous reply).
martin wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.
Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.who exactly do the BULLs have after Rose and Noah, butlers gone, gibsons gone, boozer gone. Liek I keep saying, they will be rail thin at every postion.
what do they have left, fredette, augastine, Lou, snell..lol
what? When did Butler, Gibson leave?
If they some how figure a way to add melo, those 2 will be sacrificed
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:so you reject what? The second part wasnt a statement it was a fact. Bulls have lost in the first round for two years in a row. You said if they add Melo they compete for a title and most likely make the NBA finals or at worst ECF. Pretty straightforward no?fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:the 5-6 wins doesnt matter. What matters is the Bulls lose in the first round. You said add Melo and they are in the conf finals or NBA finals (fairly mentioning the Heat's status having a big impact). Would you like to retract your statement or do you hold to what you said?fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:So in your opinion Melo can take a team that can get out of the first round to the ECF or finals. InterestingVmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.
Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.
He can take a 48 win team to the 54 win level in my opinion, and if the east deteriorates enough, that might be enough. I don't place any emphasis on the fact that they lost in the first round - that's too small a sample, Fish. You should know that by now!I hold to my statement and reject the bold portion of your statement (for reasons already mentioned in my previous reply).
Bulls beat the nets to make it to the 2nd rd last year where they were knocked out by the Heat again
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:so you reject what? The second part wasnt a statement it was a fact. Bulls have lost in the first round for two years in a row. You said if they add Melo they compete for a title and most likely make the NBA finals or at worst ECF. Pretty straightforward no?fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:the 5-6 wins doesnt matter. What matters is the Bulls lose in the first round. You said add Melo and they are in the conf finals or NBA finals (fairly mentioning the Heat's status having a big impact). Would you like to retract your statement or do you hold to what you said?fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:So in your opinion Melo can take a team that can get out of the first round to the ECF or finals. InterestingVmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.
Yeah but the drop in wins is accounted for by the roster changes and aging of already-old players in the Knicks' case. There is no parallel with the Bulls. They simply have several an excellent player in Noah and several other above average players in their primes. Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.
He can take a 48 win team to the 54 win level in my opinion, and if the east deteriorates enough, that might be enough. I don't place any emphasis on the fact that they lost in the first round - that's too small a sample, Fish. You should know that by now!I hold to my statement and reject the bold portion of your statement (for reasons already mentioned in my previous reply).
Most likely? No. Plausible in a best case scenario? Yes. Likewise, this year's team could have plausibly made it to the 2nd round despite underperforming in 1 7-game series. I think Melo can push a team whose ceiling was the 2nd round to the conference finals. I think Melo could add a round to a team's playoff ceiling. If this happens to coincide with Miami losing key players, then the finals would become a plausible best-case scenario.
Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.you say that Melo is good enough to add to a team who has one star (Noah) a few solid role guys but cant get out of the first round, so add Melo and they can compete for a title.
kinda begs the flip side of the coin.. why not keep Melo, use cap space or expirings to put together a deal for a stud and go to the ECF or finals themselves? Why not go that route Bonn?
fishmike wrote:its a bit funny to me Bonn.. you argue against the merits of signing MElo to a max contract, you go on about the faults in his game, yet:Even if Rose never plays again, if Melo joins the team, I think they can compete for the ECF. They might make it to the finals depending on what happens in Miami and how terrible the rest of the conference is.you say that Melo is good enough to add to a team who has one star (Noah) a few solid role guys but cant get out of the first round, so add Melo and they can compete for a title.kinda begs the flip side of the coin.. why not keep Melo, use cap space or expirings to put together a deal for a stud and go to the ECF or finals themselves? Why not go that route Bonn?
I do want to keep Melo - at a Duncan/Parker level salary.
I think he adds 5 or 6 wins and raises a team's playoff ceiling by about a round. That's not enough to justify a max contract, and certainly not in our case where everything else has to workout perfectly just to plausibly build a contender for Melo's 14th to 17th seasons.
For us to sign Melo to a max contract, the following would have to workout:
A) We build a very strong supporting cast. I'd give this alone maybe a 20% chance of working since most teams fail in this regard, and it will be even harder to do it in a 12 month period since we have almost no foundation right now.
B) Melo ages very well for his 14th to 17th seasons. This too is unlikely but possible.
The probability of both A and B working is the product of their individual likelihoods. In other words, it's extremely low.
For it to work for Chicago, point A is accomplished already, and they are looking to get key production from him starting right now (13th rather than 14th season). So it's a much better (or less bad) gamble for them.
And all that said, I still think their ceiling is just the ECF or potentially finals, which would still give me some hesitation to pull the deal from Chicago's perspective. (I never said I would do the deal if I ran Chicago; I only said that it could push them to a higher level within the east.)
Vmart wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:anrst wrote:It's funny to me that Chicago is supposedly such a great fit. Who do they have? A great coach and Noah. Rose hasn't played in two years!!!!!!
They have a 48 win team without Melo or Rose.I wouldn't put to much stock in it, the year before the Knicks won 54. Coaching is vital and players buying in is the ultimate key. If the players don't buy in the effort will not be there and that is the key to everything. Buying in = effort = wins.
why not? the bulls have been good the past 4 years with all types of injuries.. 62/50/45/48 those are the wins the last 4 seasons for the bulls, with injuries included... why would you not put stock into that team and record? our 54 wins was clearly an aberation. we have evidence of that from the prior season and now this past season...