We are already a very decent team
We need tweaks then a revamp in 2015.
But the east is weak and with solid tweaks and Anthony back this could all turn around.
glad to be back. missed your insight BRIGGS.
i expect Melo to return to NY the only question is at what price. hopefully in the 20-22 mill range for 5 yrs (not the max). My goals for next yr are to install the triangle and get rid of these foolish expiring contracts
BRIGGS wrote:We are already a very decent teamWe need tweaks then a revamp in 2015.
But the east is weak and with solid tweaks and Anthony back this could all turn around.
best bet for the knicks if Melo returns is he hurts himself pre season and misses the season- nothing major- just keep him on ice - we win the lottery and add a franchise changing talent in the draft, and then sign 1-2 impact players in 2015, or hold our cap clear to 2016.
MEH! I don't think this team will be bad this year with many of the same players just due to better leadership. I don't think our problem has been not having some amazing superstar talent next to Melo. It's been more about the construct of the team and it's lack of a core philosophy. We've needed a real PG for years and haven't solved that problem. We've needed an offense that was team oriented and made for the role players to excel. For one year we had half of an offense with all the 3's but lacked a more full featured offense that could win against top defenses. Better coaching was also an issue as we saw last year. We've got to instill a level of pride in these players and lose the LOSER mentality. No more lazy play from Bargs or childish pranks from JR!!!
In the near future i'm looking for a better more balanced team make up from Phil. Just stop adding players that don't make any sense together. As Phil once said no more "clumsy" rosters. Quality depth and a real culture of team BB is what this team needs. Look no further than the Spurs approach to team building. We can't replicate Duncan, but we can surely make smart picks and talent evaluation to put together balanced teams.
I would rather have an over haul of the team. Picks and more picks go into free agency with full amount of cap. As much of a talent Melo is I don't think his talent is off the charts. His game is horrible and he has no team concept in his bones. Doesn't move without the ball his handle is very weak. There are facets in his game that he never developed. For instance has anyone ever see Melo grab a rebound and go coast to coast. Has Melo made moving without the basketball an art form. Asides from being a decent catch and shoot player his game doesn't translate to the triangle and we have seen Melo out of his elements when MDA asked him to bring the ball up and do other things he became unwilling to on the challenge and did his job reluctantly.
To invest in that much money into a 31 year old I wouldn't do it it's not wise. I'm praying the Knicks do a sign and trade and get the type of players that fit the system.
Vmart wrote:I would rather have an over haul of the team. Picks and more picks go into free agency with full amount of cap. As much of a talent Melo is I don't think his talent is off the charts. His game is horrible and he has no team concept in his bones. Doesn't move without the ball his handle is very weak. There are facets in his game that he never developed. For instance has anyone ever see Melo grab a rebound and go coast to coast. Has Melo made moving without the basketball an art form. Asides from being a decent catch and shoot player his game doesn't translate to the triangle and we have seen Melo out of his elements when MDA asked him to bring the ball up and do other things he became unwilling to on the challenge and did his job reluctantly. To invest in that much money into a 31 year old I wouldn't do it it's not wise. I'm praying the Knicks do a sign and trade and get the type of players that fit the system.
This. If Melo takes a big paycut then I would be ok with it but the 129 million they are talking about it for a guy in his 30's scares me
Melo taking a pay cut where ever he goes. If he stays because we offer more money, then we should not.
If PHil can paint a picture with melo in it that is a winning scenario and Melo buys in, with a discount he said he would do BEFORE phil was even hired, then that is good for the knicks.
Good for the knicks, good with me.
Nalod wrote:Melo taking a pay cut where ever he goes. If he stays because we offer more money, then we should not.If PHil can paint a picture with melo in it that is a winning scenario and Melo buys in, with a discount he said he would do BEFORE phil was even hired, then that is good for the knicks.
Good for the knicks, good with me.
I think thats already been done with him saying (I HAD GREAT MEETING WITH PHIL AND I LKE WHAT HE'S DOING) so I think that picture has been painted pretty darn well. Thats why I don't understand the rush to become a FA, it's like he knows something..
This dude just gave up $23.3 million, thats enough for 2 life times for the avg person.
knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:Melo taking a pay cut where ever he goes. If he stays because we offer more money, then we should not.If PHil can paint a picture with melo in it that is a winning scenario and Melo buys in, with a discount he said he would do BEFORE phil was even hired, then that is good for the knicks.
Good for the knicks, good with me.
I think thats already been done with him saying (I HAD GREAT MEETING WITH PHIL AND I LKE WHAT HE'S DOING) so I think that picture has been painted pretty darn well. Thats why I don't understand the rush to become a FA, it's like he knows something..
This dude just gave up $23.3 million, thats enough for 2 life times for the avg person.
Well see. There is a diffeence between saying it and doing it. Also the reason he opted out is because he could possibly mak even more money frm te Knicks if tat is what he really wants
StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:Melo taking a pay cut where ever he goes. If he stays because we offer more money, then we should not.If PHil can paint a picture with melo in it that is a winning scenario and Melo buys in, with a discount he said he would do BEFORE phil was even hired, then that is good for the knicks.
Good for the knicks, good with me.
I think thats already been done with him saying (I HAD GREAT MEETING WITH PHIL AND I LKE WHAT HE'S DOING) so I think that picture has been painted pretty darn well. Thats why I don't understand the rush to become a FA, it's like he knows something..
This dude just gave up $23.3 million, thats enough for 2 life times for the avg person.
Well see. There is a diffeence between saying it and doing it. Also the reason he opted out is because he could possibly mak even more money frm te Knicks if tat is what he really wants
My guess is that the next off season brings more competion in the FA market, and less pampering and money to spend
No 'no trade clause' and team options on year 4 & 5 and i'm good with resigning Melo.
Melo & Dolan's history suggests that he would get the player option and no trade claus. New York Knicks be dammed
StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:Melo taking a pay cut where ever he goes. If he stays because we offer more money, then we should not.If PHil can paint a picture with melo in it that is a winning scenario and Melo buys in, with a discount he said he would do BEFORE phil was even hired, then that is good for the knicks.
Good for the knicks, good with me.
I think thats already been done with him saying (I HAD GREAT MEETING WITH PHIL AND I LKE WHAT HE'S DOING) so I think that picture has been painted pretty darn well. Thats why I don't understand the rush to become a FA, it's like he knows something..
This dude just gave up $23.3 million, thats enough for 2 life times for the avg person.
Well see. There is a diffeence between saying it and doing it. Also the reason he opted out is because he could possibly mak even more money frm te Knicks if tat is what he really wants
Opting out was sensible for him at his age. It allows him to parlay his talents into a 5 year deal, making the most of his prime years. If he waits a year and gets injured, that plan falls apart.
Personally, I'd rather rebuild as I tend to agree that Melo is not a good fit for "system" hoops, particularly the triangle (i.e., he does't play team ball well and doesn't move well without the ball).
That said, I would welcome him back at a reasonable price (i.e., one that allows us to build a real contender) because he is an elite scorer (difficult to replace his clutchness), which we'll need to get through the ECF.
Dream scenario: Lebron and Melo colluding to go to Cavs and we get that number one pick, plus Varejao and filler.
I'd be ok with the two picks from Chicago as well.
gunsnewing wrote:Melo & Dolan's history suggests that he would get the player option and no trade claus. New York Knicks be dammed
do NBA contracts have no trade clauses? Im not sure thats in the CBA. I think once we sign him he ours to trade away.
I think the Knicks have talent, but like Phil said its a clumsy mix. Our parts dont work together, but some decent guard play will fix that.
BRIGGS wrote:We are already a very decent teamWe need tweaks then a revamp in 2015.
But the east is weak and with solid tweaks and Anthony back this could all turn around.
You lost me after the first sentence. We're an older version of a .450 team and we have fewer resources for off-season improvement than most teams.
Melo is gone and it's the right move for him. I can only hope Fish can get these guys to play defense physically and mentally or I could see us winning 20-25 games.
fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Melo & Dolan's history suggests that he would get the player option and no trade claus. New York Knicks be dammed
do NBA contracts have no trade clauses? Im not sure thats in the CBA. I think once we sign him he ours to trade away.I think the Knicks have talent, but like Phil said its a clumsy mix. Our parts dont work together, but some decent guard play will fix that.
well if you look at the CBA fish, I think trade clauses were eliminated in 1983, it had a very short shelf life..
BUT.. they do exist and there are stipulations... it is negotiated on a per contract basis.. here is the info.. from the CBA....
A "no-trade" clause prevents the team from trading the player without the player's consent. A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract1 if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons -- for example, Horace Grant received a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for the requisite four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim. Very few players actually have one of these negotiated no-trade provisions (currently only Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Dirk Nowitzki have them).
I find it odd you did research on Tim Duncan's salary, because it suited your argument, I am sure you could have googled this info... But hey, I hope this helped..
tj23 wrote:Melo is gone and it's the right move for him. I can only hope Fish can get these guys to play defense physically and mentally or I could see us winning 20-25 games.
I'd rather have mreinman orchestrating the defense!
Bonn1997 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:We are already a very decent teamWe need tweaks then a revamp in 2015.
But the east is weak and with solid tweaks and Anthony back this could all turn around.
You lost me after the first sentence. We're an older version of a .450 team and we have fewer resources for off-season improvement than most teams.
Bonn
Lets be fair
We were poor last year but we also showed signs of being good.
The year before we were good.
Its easier to have major pieces in place than to start over.
We need a new PG some quality youth and then in 2015 we can retool with major free agents--to have one in place already is the easiest path.
This is me--this is guys who have to go---JR Smith Felton Bargnanai Chandler---I like Amare and hope he stays healthy and we can resign him to a 2 years 10mm contract or something very cheap next year.
We need to execute and acquire 3 quality rookies--we need assets and youth. If that means trade for a 1 and buy 2 's or buy a 2 and 1 undrafted player---Im down.
From there we need to see who we can get rid of. A combination of quality youth and quality cheap vets sets us up nicely.
tkf wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Melo & Dolan's history suggests that he would get the player option and no trade claus. New York Knicks be dammed
do NBA contracts have no trade clauses? Im not sure thats in the CBA. I think once we sign him he ours to trade away.I think the Knicks have talent, but like Phil said its a clumsy mix. Our parts dont work together, but some decent guard play will fix that.
well if you look at the CBA fish, I think trade clauses were eliminated in 1983, it had a very short shelf life..
BUT.. they do exist and there are stipulations... it is negotiated on a per contract basis.. here is the info.. from the CBA....
A "no-trade" clause prevents the team from trading the player without the player's consent. A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract1 if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons -- for example, Horace Grant received a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for the requisite four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim. Very few players actually have one of these negotiated no-trade provisions (currently only Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Dirk Nowitzki have them).
I find it odd you did research on Tim Duncan's salary, because it suited your argument, I am sure you could have googled this info... But hey, I hope this helped..
yea if research is spending 30 seconds on basketballreference.com where I know player salaries are at the bottom of every page then OK. You find it odd because every word you type on this site is agenda based. Your either trying to trash Melo or pretending to talk about something else so you can say you do something beside bash Melo.
But yea... thanks for this.
fishmike wrote:tkf wrote:fishmike wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Melo & Dolan's history suggests that he would get the player option and no trade claus. New York Knicks be dammed
do NBA contracts have no trade clauses? Im not sure thats in the CBA. I think once we sign him he ours to trade away.I think the Knicks have talent, but like Phil said its a clumsy mix. Our parts dont work together, but some decent guard play will fix that.
well if you look at the CBA fish, I think trade clauses were eliminated in 1983, it had a very short shelf life..
BUT.. they do exist and there are stipulations... it is negotiated on a per contract basis.. here is the info.. from the CBA....
A "no-trade" clause prevents the team from trading the player without the player's consent. A no-trade clause can be negotiated into a new contract1 if the player has been in the NBA for at least eight seasons, and has played for the team with which he is signing for at least four seasons. They don't have to be the four most recent seasons -- for example, Horace Grant received a no-trade clause from Orlando when he signed with them in 2001. He had played for Orlando for the requisite four seasons, but had played for Seattle and Los Angeles in the interim. Very few players actually have one of these negotiated no-trade provisions (currently only Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett and Dirk Nowitzki have them).
I find it odd you did research on Tim Duncan's salary, because it suited your argument, I am sure you could have googled this info... But hey, I hope this helped..
yea if research is spending 30 seconds on basketballreference.com where I know player salaries are at the bottom of every page then OK. You find it odd because every word you type on this site is agenda based. Your either trying to trash Melo or pretending to talk about something else so you can say you do something beside bash Melo.But yea... thanks for this.
yes that is research this isn't a college paper.. simple research.. 30 seconds can save you looking like a fool in some cases.. it is just well worth it.. don't you think?
and fish, why worry if I have an agenda.. you have an agenda, everyone does... why is it such a concern for you what I say about carmelo.. Honestly can you answer that... You have taken offense to this.. and don't tell me, you are tired of hearing it, because you can just ignore it... it all goes back to the fact that you flip flopped... which hey, thats fine, it's over now, but you seem to have a hard time living with that... that seems to be a fishmike problem, not a TKF one..
