Darren Collision reportedly has agreed to terms with the Sacramento Kings for $16 million over 3 years. At 26 years old, and as a starter, he averaged 14.8ppg, 2.3rpg, 5.3apg and 1.5spg in 33.8mpg. For the efficient crowd, he also shot 48.1% from the field and 41.7% from 3.
In contrast, Jose Calderon at 33 years old is owed $22 million over those same 3 years. His stat line as a starter? 11.4ppg, 2.4rpg, 4.7apg and 0.9spg in 30.5mpg. His shooting? 45.6 FG% and 44.9 3FG%.
Those numbers are not enough to establish anything concrete, so take them with a grain of salt. But I think it's hard to pretend that Calderon's play is great bang for our buck.
NardDogNation wrote:Darren Collision reportedly has agreed to terms with the Sacramento Kings for $16 million over 3 years. At 26 years old, and as a starter, he averaged 14.8ppg, 2.3rpg, 5.3apg and 1.5spg in 33.8mpg. For the efficient crowd, he also shot 48.1% from the field and 41.7% from 3.In contrast, Jose Calderon at 33 years old is owed $22 million over those same 3 years. His stat line as a starter? 11.4ppg, 2.4rpg, 4.7apg and 0.9spg in 30.5mpg. His shooting? 45.6 FG% and 44.9 3FG%.
Those numbers are not enough to establish anything concrete, so take them with a grain of salt. But I think it's hard to pretend that Calderon's play is great bang for our buck.
#s don't explain his worth, and why is collison on the move so much..5th team in 5 yrs, I'm more conern about that
Calderon is more than likely a temporary fix. Don't like the contract either but Calderon is only part of what we got back in return. We will have the cap room to upgrade the position in 2015. Hopefully he will help Bargs fit in better with the offense. Tyson and Felton are gone, thats a big plus.
GustavBahler wrote:Calderon is more than likely a temporary fix. Don't like the contract either but Calderon is only part of what we got back in return. We will have the cap room to upgrade the position in 2015. Hopefully he will help Bargs fit in better with the offense. Tyson and Felton are gone, thats a big plus.
Upgrade to who? there's no list of top pg's in the 2015 FA class, unless were going to draft a player and trade him for an elite pg with our cap space..
GustavBahler wrote:Calderon is more than likely a temporary fix. Don't like the contract either but Calderon is only part of what we got back in return. We will have the cap room to upgrade the position in 2015. Hopefully he will help Bargs fit in better with the offense. Tyson and Felton are gone, thats a big plus.
+1, this was not a deal to snag Jose, it was a deal to dump Felton's bad contract and dump Tyson's frail body and fragile psyche. The main idea here was addition by subtraction, with the assets received as gravy. Calderon is certainly an upgrade over Felton.
NardDogNation wrote:Darren Collision reportedly has agreed to terms with the Sacramento Kings for $16 million over 3 years. At 26 years old, and as a starter, he averaged 14.8ppg, 2.3rpg, 5.3apg and 1.5spg in 33.8mpg. For the efficient crowd, he also shot 48.1% from the field and 41.7% from 3.In contrast, Jose Calderon at 33 years old is owed $22 million over those same 3 years. His stat line as a starter? 11.4ppg, 2.4rpg, 4.7apg and 0.9spg in 30.5mpg. His shooting? 45.6 FG% and 44.9 3FG%.
Those numbers are not enough to establish anything concrete, so take them with a grain of salt. But I think it's hard to pretend that Calderon's play is great bang for our buck.
I agree that Collision's contract sucks and he is more likely to decline than hold steady. That said, all the guys we talked aboug signed for more than the Knicks could afford. Who knows what Ramon Sessions will get in this bizarro free agency period? Jodie Meeks is pulling $6M for goodness sake! We're going to have to pray Jose holds up and we're able to stabilize the position down the road. The other thing is some of the contracts that are being handed out are ridiculous. That's why it's hard to take the owner's seriously when they complain about player salaries going up.
knicks1248 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Calderon is more than likely a temporary fix. Don't like the contract either but Calderon is only part of what we got back in return. We will have the cap room to upgrade the position in 2015. Hopefully he will help Bargs fit in better with the offense. Tyson and Felton are gone, thats a big plus.
Upgrade to who? there's no list of top pg's in the 2015 FA class, unless were going to draft a player and trade him for an elite pg with our cap space..
Those are two possibilities you just laid out. Doesn't have to be an elite PG, just someone who plays better defense, who can also do a good job of running the team. Phil will probably look to get an elite player at another position.
If we had cap space then we would not have grabbed Calderon. But the key is WE DID NOT HAVE CAP SPACE which limits what we can do.
Finding great signings to teams that had cap space and comparing them to us having to make salaries match to dump Felton and chandler is just fool's gold.
Calderone is an upgrade over Felton. Chandler is gone.
Win win.
Why not compare Calderone to Felton? On any level.
Nard, are you just looking to find some possible way to take a whizz on the absolute best move we've had so far in the PJax regime? This is something like an exercise in trying to find the downside of getting rid of Jerome James and Eddy Curry.
NardDogNation wrote:Darren Collision reportedly has agreed to terms with the Sacramento Kings for $16 million over 3 years. At 26 years old, and as a starter, he averaged 14.8ppg, 2.3rpg, 5.3apg and 1.5spg in 33.8mpg. For the efficient crowd, he also shot 48.1% from the field and 41.7% from 3.In contrast, Jose Calderon at 33 years old is owed $22 million over those same 3 years. His stat line as a starter? 11.4ppg, 2.4rpg, 4.7apg and 0.9spg in 30.5mpg. His shooting? 45.6 FG% and 44.9 3FG%.
Those numbers are not enough to establish anything concrete, so take them with a grain of salt. But I think it's hard to pretend that Calderon's play is great bang for our buck.
Did you just use Collinson's numbers in 35 games versus someone who played 82 games? Why not use the season as a whole or more seasons to get a better grasp of their numbers. No need to go Cherry picking
Phil is probably going to deal before opening night.
I think Calderon will be gone next year, but he is a good stop gap.
Wait, but Collison shot 43% and 37% over the whole season. His numbers as a started
Compared to Calderon as a starter doesn't seem like the right way to look at it. why not
Compare their numbers over the largest sample possible which is total stats for
The whole year?
Calderon is old but still one of the best shooters in the league compared to all guards. Calderon is a better fit for the triangle IMO.
Calderon has about 4.1/1 career assist to turnover ratio- one of the best in NBA history. And he hits a high percentage of 3's. He's a really efficient player, especially for a triangle offense system.
I don't want us to focus on having 100% cap space- we've been down that road before. Very few big FAs will make it to free agency. We need to build up talent, have some pieces in place- then add FAs incrementally over the years. This Heat thing from 2010 seems to have left people thinking you have to rebuild completely in one offseason.
NardDogNation wrote:Darren Collision reportedly has agreed to terms with the Sacramento Kings for $16 million over 3 years. At 26 years old, and as a starter, he averaged 14.8ppg, 2.3rpg, 5.3apg and 1.5spg in 33.8mpg. For the efficient crowd, he also shot 48.1% from the field and 41.7% from 3.In contrast, Jose Calderon at 33 years old is owed $22 million over those same 3 years. His stat line as a starter? 11.4ppg, 2.4rpg, 4.7apg and 0.9spg in 30.5mpg. His shooting? 45.6 FG% and 44.9 3FG%.
Those numbers are not enough to establish anything concrete, so take them with a grain of salt. But I think it's hard to pretend that Calderon's play is great bang for our buck.
Knicks did not have cap space to sign anyone higher than the MLE so it is folly to pull an isolated signing and form a comparison. The only way Collison could have come to the Knicks is via a sign and trade with the Clips. Further, any trade package the Knicks made had to bring back equal salary. You seem to be on a mission to discredit the trade. Yes Calderon's contract is less than ideal, but you have to consider the entire trade package.
Calderon
Larkin
Ellington
Dalambert
Early
Thanasis Ante.
3.6 Million Trade Exception towards the Cap
Also Calderon's assist numbers were way down last year in Dallas for whatever reason. Historically he was well over 8 per game during many of his years on Toronto. I'd be happy with something in between with 40%+ 3pt shooting and very low turnovers.
knicks1248 wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Darren Collision reportedly has agreed to terms with the Sacramento Kings for $16 million over 3 years. At 26 years old, and as a starter, he averaged 14.8ppg, 2.3rpg, 5.3apg and 1.5spg in 33.8mpg. For the efficient crowd, he also shot 48.1% from the field and 41.7% from 3.In contrast, Jose Calderon at 33 years old is owed $22 million over those same 3 years. His stat line as a starter? 11.4ppg, 2.4rpg, 4.7apg and 0.9spg in 30.5mpg. His shooting? 45.6 FG% and 44.9 3FG%.
Those numbers are not enough to establish anything concrete, so take them with a grain of salt. But I think it's hard to pretend that Calderon's play is great bang for our buck.
#s don't explain his worth, and why is collison on the move so much..5th team in 5 yrs, I'm more conern about that
You are aware of the fact that Jose Calderon has played on 4 teams in 4 years, right?
BigDaddyG wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Darren Collision reportedly has agreed to terms with the Sacramento Kings for $16 million over 3 years. At 26 years old, and as a starter, he averaged 14.8ppg, 2.3rpg, 5.3apg and 1.5spg in 33.8mpg. For the efficient crowd, he also shot 48.1% from the field and 41.7% from 3.In contrast, Jose Calderon at 33 years old is owed $22 million over those same 3 years. His stat line as a starter? 11.4ppg, 2.4rpg, 4.7apg and 0.9spg in 30.5mpg. His shooting? 45.6 FG% and 44.9 3FG%.
Those numbers are not enough to establish anything concrete, so take them with a grain of salt. But I think it's hard to pretend that Calderon's play is great bang for our buck.
I agree that Collision's contract sucks and he is more likely to decline than hold steady. That said, all the guys we talked aboug signed for more than the Knicks could afford. Who knows what Ramon Sessions will get in this bizarro free agency period? Jodie Meeks is pulling $6M for goodness sake! We're going to have to pray Jose holds up and we're able to stabilize the position down the road. The other thing is some of the contracts that are being handed out are ridiculous. That's why it's hard to take the owner's seriously when they complain about player salaries going up.
Since we're below the luxury tax at the moment, I think we could've signed Collision to the same deal he signed with the Kings by using the MLE. Chances are they paid more than what is being reported but if the rumors are confirmed, I think he is far more valuable at that price than Calderon is at his own. But the contracts are getting ridiculous; I agree with you. Can you believe Ben Gordon, who hasn't been relevant since he left the Bulls is earning $9 million over the next 2 seasons? I'm not even sure that the guy can physically play anymore. Stuff like this is why I've never sympathized with the owners that cry poverty. Their losses usually seem to be grossly overstated and often self-inflicted by signing the Ben Gordon's of the world to these types of contracts.
GustavBahler wrote:Calderon is more than likely a temporary fix. Don't like the contract either but Calderon is only part of what we got back in return. We will have the cap room to upgrade the position in 2015. Hopefully he will help Bargs fit in better with the offense. Tyson and Felton are gone, thats a big plus.
I can't expect anyone to seriously contemplate him being a mainstay on the roster BUT who is going to take him for that kind of money? Is he really $6 million better than a Darren Collision? Trading him is going to be a much bigger problem than has been let on. I just hope he doesn't lose a step in the immediate future because I could easily see him morphing into our new Raymond Felton but with a longer contract. I would've preferred that we dump Chandler and Felton for nothing (with the opportunity to get Collision at his figure) than what we did.
babyKnicks wrote:If we had cap space then we would not have grabbed Calderon. But the key is WE DID NOT HAVE CAP SPACE which limits what we can do. Finding great signings to teams that had cap space and comparing them to us having to make salaries match to dump Felton and chandler is just fool's gold.
Calderone is an upgrade over Felton. Chandler is gone.
Win win.
The Kings are actually $3 million over the cap, so I'm pretty sure they used their full midlevel exception to get Collision. There would be no guarantee that Collision would've wanted to come to New York but I'd much prefer we have him than Calderon, considering the money that Calderon is due. I understood the need to move Chandler and Felton but at what cost? Is it really that unfathomable to think that we could've dumped both, free of charge, on another team with cap space? I'm sure you'd argue we got assets for that same package, so why would that be so unreasonable?
Yes, Calderon is an upgrade over Felton...and so would any other PG in the entire league. So Calderon himself, is nothing to take solace in, IMO. After all, we could've pursued Darren for $6 million less.
