Knicks · goals for the season (page 3)

Dagger wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:WIN THE ATLANTIC DIVISION!!!

They just need to buy into the system and play team oriented BB and they should have a shot to win this div. Toronto won 48 games last year to win the Div. I don't think they will be unbeatable this year. Knicks closed the season 16-7 in March and April last year. Knicks were 10-6 vs the Atlantic last year. IMO this team can be much better than last year when they lost so many games in the 4th qtr that were winnable if they simply play smart BB. They literally pissed away a good 10 games just being stupid. 46-50 games should win the Atlantic this year.

I tend to agree but every season has its own set of challenges. I to think the Knicks *can* win the division, but that doesnt mean they will or they should.

I agree 100% with Vmart's comments on Amare, and if he can give anything he will. He finished the season very strong last year. 26 games post all star he put up 15/6 and shot 57%. If we could get close to that kind of EF% from him it would be a huge help. Im not holding out much hope for Bargs.

Amare gives up far more than he gets. Just looking at his offensive stats does not tell the story.

So unfortunately, I think that the knicks will be a better team with him occupying the IR.

I understand you dont like him, but thats just not accurate. Knicks need some high % scorers. Amare brings that. Especially off the bench.

Yeah but what he's saying is amare is so bad on defense that he gives up more points than he gets even if he is efficient. He also mucks up the offense because he never passes and always goes 1 on 3 forcing the issue which is why he gets more shots blocked and TOs than he should.

He also gets to the line more then any player not name melo (and he's in the bottom half of minutes played), I seriously doubts he goes 1 on 3, cause he doesnt hold the ball and wait for the double like melo.

I also don't recalled opposing bigs having big games agaisnt him on a nightly basis, his help defense is horrible, but his man defense is reasonable.

He'wasn't the one getting lit up by every pg in the league, oh wait a minute, with the amount of switching we did, maybe he was.

Once again another poster who judges a player not the sysytem

Check yourself, I always talked about what I disliked about Woodson's coaching. I'm well aware he was a big part of the problem, and if you took the time to read what other people say, maybe you wouldn't be making wild generalizations that have no basis in reality.

If you doubt he goes 1-on-3 maybe watch some games... I mean there's no retort to that, he forced it a ton and if you didn't see it I honestly have a hard time believing you were watching closely.

This is from 2013/14 season

knicks1248 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Dagger wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

nixluva wrote:WIN THE ATLANTIC DIVISION!!!

They just need to buy into the system and play team oriented BB and they should have a shot to win this div. Toronto won 48 games last year to win the Div. I don't think they will be unbeatable this year. Knicks closed the season 16-7 in March and April last year. Knicks were 10-6 vs the Atlantic last year. IMO this team can be much better than last year when they lost so many games in the 4th qtr that were winnable if they simply play smart BB. They literally pissed away a good 10 games just being stupid. 46-50 games should win the Atlantic this year.

I tend to agree but every season has its own set of challenges. I to think the Knicks *can* win the division, but that doesnt mean they will or they should.

I agree 100% with Vmart's comments on Amare, and if he can give anything he will. He finished the season very strong last year. 26 games post all star he put up 15/6 and shot 57%. If we could get close to that kind of EF% from him it would be a huge help. Im not holding out much hope for Bargs.

Amare gives up far more than he gets. Just looking at his offensive stats does not tell the story.

So unfortunately, I think that the knicks will be a better team with him occupying the IR.

I understand you dont like him, but thats just not accurate. Knicks need some high % scorers. Amare brings that. Especially off the bench.

Yeah but what he's saying is amare is so bad on defense that he gives up more points than he gets even if he is efficient. He also mucks up the offense because he never passes and always goes 1 on 3 forcing the issue which is why he gets more shots blocked and TOs than he should.

He also gets to the line more then any player not name melo (and he's in the bottom half of minutes played), I seriously doubts he goes 1 on 3, cause he doesnt hold the ball and wait for the double like melo.

I also don't recalled opposing bigs having big games agaisnt him on a nightly basis, his help defense is horrible, but his man defense is reasonable.

He'wasn't the one getting lit up by every pg in the league, oh wait a minute, with the amount of switching we did, maybe he was.

Once again another poster who judges a player not the sysytem

Check yourself, I always talked about what I disliked about Woodson's coaching. I'm well aware he was a big part of the problem, and if you took the time to read what other people say, maybe you wouldn't be making wild generalizations that have no basis in reality.

If you doubt he goes 1-on-3 maybe watch some games... I mean there's no retort to that, he forced it a ton and if you didn't see it I honestly have a hard time believing you were watching closely.

This is from 2013/14 season

This is the Amare that we have come to love:

STAT will be a plus player for us this year. No reason to be worried about his role on this team. This is a great system for STAT to play in at this stage of his career.

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

Good post. I would add Melo needs to take on mentoring role for the kids as well. They will look up to him and he needs to look out for his teammates and have their back.

I definetly prefer not trading Amare and Bargs and just letting them expire.

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

Good post. I would add Melo needs to take on mentoring role for the kids as well. They will look up to him and he needs to look out for his teammates and have their back.

I definetly prefer not trading Amare and Bargs and just letting them expire.

I thought Amare did a nice job of that his first year here. Now that Melo is clearly here to stay and he's a 30 year old making crazy money I 100% agree that should be part of his job, in whatever capacity helps Fisher. Thats the thing with Fish and Phil. You know your getting same page and great leadership. What that means is guys will be put in a position to succeed and maximize what they can bring to the table both physically ad mentally. For years we have dreamed of a FO and coach on the same page. Now we have that and the first moves are to keep the scorer and infuse the roster with young talent and pieces that fit better. Im sure they will have their swings and misses but Im excited to see how these guys do this.

I still think we need some leaders on the floor, vocal leaders.

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

You had me until you used "Landry Fields" and "pretty good" in the same sentence.

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

You had me until you used "Landry Fields" and "pretty good" in the same sentence.

haha... he had a great rookie year. about 10ppg, 6rpg shot close to 50%, played D. He was a nice piece. Then he broke down. He's had a Camby like made of glass type run since that rookie deal. Only point was has overlooked as a 4 year college player with limited upside but showed his rookie season he could come in and play right away. Out of the box though he was very solid.

franco12 wrote:I posted this in Briggs thread about instability - maybe we should buyout Bargs & maybe Amare's deal rather than have them clog up the roster and be a possible distraction.

They will both help us this year and i think Bargs will surprise a lot of people and be a really good fit for the triangle offense. A 7 footer that can consistently hit the mid range jump shot is perfect for the triangle now i don't know how good of a passer he is but that's something that can be made better if it needs to be.

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

You had me until you used "Landry Fields" and "pretty good" in the same sentence.

haha... he had a great rookie year. about 10ppg, 6rpg shot close to 50%, played D. He was a nice piece. Then he broke down. He's had a Camby like made of glass type run since that rookie deal. Only point was has overlooked as a 4 year college player with limited upside but showed his rookie season he could come in and play right away. Out of the box though he was very solid.

Limited upside? He had the ugliest jumper since Oakley and Ken Bannister. Sorry, but I will never forget watching him try to "think" the ball into the hoop. Only thing more painful than Landry's wide open j was Tony Douglas' pointless drives to the baseline. And even that was a close call.

You really count starting over/playing right away with the likes of Bill Walker, Andy Rautins, Roger Mason and the aforementioned Tony D a great accomplishment?

The best part of Landry's game was the Andy/Landry show and the pre-game nerd ritual with Lin.

I will no be moved.

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

You had me until you used "Landry Fields" and "pretty good" in the same sentence.

haha... he had a great rookie year. about 10ppg, 6rpg shot close to 50%, played D. He was a nice piece. Then he broke down. He's had a Camby like made of glass type run since that rookie deal. Only point was has overlooked as a 4 year college player with limited upside but showed his rookie season he could come in and play right away. Out of the box though he was very solid.

Limited upside? He had the ugliest jumper since Oakley and Ken Bannister. Sorry, but I will never forget watching him try to "think" the ball into the hoop. Only thing more painful than Landry's wide open j was Tony Douglas' pointless drives to the baseline. And even that was a close call.

You really count starting over/playing right away with the likes of Bill Walker, Andy Rautins, Roger Mason and the aforementioned Tony D a great accomplishment?

The best part of Landry's game was the Andy/Landry show and the pre-game nerd ritual with Lin.

I will no be moved.

Funny ... I remember Earl killing me for saying that Landry was not a good shooter (in his rookie year). Shots were falling but fugly as hell.

Talking about goal OF the season (well Worldcup-wise...) ;-)

Sorry couldnt resist!!!

mreinman wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:1) establish a style of play
2) make the playoffs (low seeded one and done is fine)
3) hope that from this group of players: (Early, THjr, Larkin, Thanos, Cole, Ellington) that TWO of them emerge as solid NBA starters. Not stars, just quality rotation guys that thrive in the system and are cheap labor.
4) pump and dump Shump. I believe he can be good, but he's very low IQ player in a contract year. Get him playing well and move him come Christmas for any first round pick or better
5) keep Melo's minutes in mid 30s... 32-35mpg. Avoid tempation to ride him all game if other players are strugling.
6) Get what you can from Amare/Bargs but barring an incredible opportunitiy in the trade market avoid tempation to use the expiring contracts for pedestrian upgrades.

Go into the 2015 offseason with $20mm + in cap space. A winning (thats +.500) team. Two first round picks (ours and some pick in the late 20s for Shump) we can use to target quality college players with skill sets that can help quickly. Early is a good example. Landry Fields would be another (remember he was pretty good before getting hurt all the time). Those kind of guys.

If you can move JR's expiring deal and clear out a litle more space you could split your cap space between offers to Rondo and DeAndre Jordan. Not max deals, but big contracts silimar to what we offered Tyson. If those guys are gone hopefully the cap space gives us the flexibility to make other deals, sign and trades, etc

I believe with this new management the future can be very bright indeed. With the who makes buckets back and the SL kids looking promising Im already enjoying the process.

You had me until you used "Landry Fields" and "pretty good" in the same sentence.

haha... he had a great rookie year. about 10ppg, 6rpg shot close to 50%, played D. He was a nice piece. Then he broke down. He's had a Camby like made of glass type run since that rookie deal. Only point was has overlooked as a 4 year college player with limited upside but showed his rookie season he could come in and play right away. Out of the box though he was very solid.

Limited upside? He had the ugliest jumper since Oakley and Ken Bannister. Sorry, but I will never forget watching him try to "think" the ball into the hoop. Only thing more painful than Landry's wide open j was Tony Douglas' pointless drives to the baseline. And even that was a close call.

You really count starting over/playing right away with the likes of Bill Walker, Andy Rautins, Roger Mason and the aforementioned Tony D a great accomplishment?

The best part of Landry's game was the Andy/Landry show and the pre-game nerd ritual with Lin.

I will no be moved.

Funny ... I remember Earl killing me for saying that Landry was not a good shooter (in his rookie year). Shots were falling but fugly as hell.

and when people were touting him the next ________ (fill in the blank with unrealistic expectations) I said his lack of quickness and inability to get his own shot off would ensure he's never more than a role player. Your missing the point though... did he play well? Did he help the Knicks win games? Was he giving you great production as a rookie considering where he was drafted? I would say yes to all those. Thats it... dont get unruley

Earl ain't never killed nobody.

Ease up.

he was a good pick and exceeded expectations.

Earl - don't make me dig out the threads