fishmike wrote:I get wanting JR gone, but he's a very good player. If Fisher can get from him what Woody did two years ago he will help a lot. These guys are pretty good motivaters
I disagree with this. Jr needs to go back to being a role player unless Phisher can reach him in a way no other coach has. I like him as a starter without the ball in his hands and the duty of being the number one option on the floor. Let him play the role THjr did in the summer except Jr can rebound,pass, and defend at a higher level. Jr is a fantastic catch and shoot player all his career so the triangle should be a fit but I just hope the cutting will help him attack the basket more.
Woody enable him and gave him too much freedom.
I dont really mean expanding JR's role, rather I mean keeping him focused. Yes he was the #2 scorer on that 54 win team, but what I really mean is just a smart JR for 30 mimutes a night. He's a willing defender, passer and obvious scorer. When he's playing in a team concept he's really really good in pretty much every way. He's a very versatile player. When things arent going well he tends to revert to trying to chuck us back into games, and in turn he chucks us out of them.
If JR (god this kinda hurts) is playing in the system he's the 2nd best player on this team. We have seen him sustain that for a year under woody. Unfortunatly he didnt sustain it in the playoffs and that Pacer's series was a travesty. If there is a guy Fish needs to take under his wing and keep centered its JR. We will see, but there is huge room for improvement from this player from last year to this. How to get it from him is the question. Agree?
IMO it's all about having a system that prescribes a very specific role. Woody's problem is that he left too much up to the players themselves and that is a recipe for disaster. You want these players to stick to the script. The Triangle is very much a script for how to play the game properly. The very specific moves and decisions that players make actually make the game easier for players. In the Triangle you have clear decisions to make. This will make Smith a better and more predictable player. Rather than having him pound the ball in to the ground when he gets it. There will be more catch and shoot or cut and finish type plays by the very nature of the offense.
This video breaks down the offense and how players have to execute for it to work. This is what Fish will be drilling over and over with our players to get them to have the right spacing, footwork, timing and decision making.
I worry the triangle is more open for the players - they have to make a read, then a decision based on what they see the defense doing. Can JR execute that? I'm worried, it might be too much to expect from him.
franco12@ 8/8/2014 12:38 PM
I'd go with this starting line up:
Jose Calderon Iman Shumpert Carmelo Anthony Quincy Acy Amar'e Stoudemire
Then my bench: Shane Larkin JR Smith Tim Hardaway Cole Aldrich
And yes, I'd agree that is one too many G's to try to rotate in - so, yes, I'd love to see Shumpert or JR get moved.
nixluva@ 8/8/2014 2:23 PM
franco12 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
fishmike wrote:I get wanting JR gone, but he's a very good player. If Fisher can get from him what Woody did two years ago he will help a lot. These guys are pretty good motivaters
I disagree with this. Jr needs to go back to being a role player unless Phisher can reach him in a way no other coach has. I like him as a starter without the ball in his hands and the duty of being the number one option on the floor. Let him play the role THjr did in the summer except Jr can rebound,pass, and defend at a higher level. Jr is a fantastic catch and shoot player all his career so the triangle should be a fit but I just hope the cutting will help him attack the basket more.
Woody enable him and gave him too much freedom.
I dont really mean expanding JR's role, rather I mean keeping him focused. Yes he was the #2 scorer on that 54 win team, but what I really mean is just a smart JR for 30 mimutes a night. He's a willing defender, passer and obvious scorer. When he's playing in a team concept he's really really good in pretty much every way. He's a very versatile player. When things arent going well he tends to revert to trying to chuck us back into games, and in turn he chucks us out of them.
If JR (god this kinda hurts) is playing in the system he's the 2nd best player on this team. We have seen him sustain that for a year under woody. Unfortunatly he didnt sustain it in the playoffs and that Pacer's series was a travesty. If there is a guy Fish needs to take under his wing and keep centered its JR. We will see, but there is huge room for improvement from this player from last year to this. How to get it from him is the question. Agree?
IMO it's all about having a system that prescribes a very specific role. Woody's problem is that he left too much up to the players themselves and that is a recipe for disaster. You want these players to stick to the script. The Triangle is very much a script for how to play the game properly. The very specific moves and decisions that players make actually make the game easier for players. In the Triangle you have clear decisions to make. This will make Smith a better and more predictable player. Rather than having him pound the ball in to the ground when he gets it. There will be more catch and shoot or cut and finish type plays by the very nature of the offense.
This video breaks down the offense and how players have to execute for it to work. This is what Fish will be drilling over and over with our players to get them to have the right spacing, footwork, timing and decision making.
I worry the triangle is more open for the players - they have to make a read, then a decision based on what they see the defense doing. Can JR execute that? I'm worried, it might be too much to expect from him.
You're making it seem a bit too complicated. As a SG you have only a few basic decisions to make. The SG is at 1st a passer in the Triangle, occupying a position as part of the 2 guard front. He's going to get to cut and slash to the basket and come around screens on curls, catch and shoot. It's really a great offense for him. Instead of getting the ball and immediately dribbling, this offense calls for him to make the pass quickly and go into motion. This is the huge difference from how he's played in the past. Also JR is actually a good passer and in an offense which has tons of predictable cuts that will make him a better passer cuz they'll be drilling the cuts and possible passes to be made in the set offense. We just saw how JR will be asked to play in the SL with THJ. There will be TONS of catch and shoot for JR. There are also a lot of one on ones created where JR will be able to take his man with space.
babyKnicks@ 8/8/2014 2:37 PM
franco12 wrote:I'd go with this starting line up:
Jose Calderon Iman Shumpert Carmelo Anthony Quincy Acy Amar'e Stoudemire
Then my bench: Shane Larkin JR Smith Tim Hardaway Cole Aldrich
And yes, I'd agree that is one too many G's to try to rotate in - so, yes, I'd love to see Shumpert or JR get moved.
No bargs or Jason smith?
I'd like to see a serious group of...
Jose Calderon JR Smith Carmelo Anthony Amar'e Stoudemire (ala horace grant) Dalembert
Then my bench: Tim Hardaway Iman Shumpert Cleanathony early Bargnani Jason smith Cole Aldrich
PassTheBall@ 8/8/2014 5:12 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
nixluva wrote:
PassTheBall wrote:I would like to see this lineup get a chance:
Starting Lineup:
C - Bargnani PF/SF - Melo SF/SG - Shumpert SF/SG - JR Smith PG - Calderon
Second Unit
C - Dalembert/Aldrich PF/SF - Stat/Acy SF - Early/Outlaw SG - THJ PG - Larkin/Prigioni
It's possible. It looks like you forgot about Jason Smith, who I think they feel strong about. Fish will have to experiment and see how that unit performs on both ends. It's really a tough thing to find a lineup that should work well on both ends. It looks like some of these players who probably feel they should play may be disappointed.
Yeah I think Smith was brought here to play not sit at the end of the bench
Yep forgot about him. He will battle Aldrich for playing time I think.
Second Unit
C - Dalembert/Smith/Aldrich PF/SF - Stat/Acy SF - Early/Outlaw SG - THJ PG - Larkin/Prigioni
I'm not 100% sure but I think we should trade JR Smith. I thought he was going to be traded for more depth at SF/PF but it only took Ellington & Tyler to solve that issue.
nixluva@ 8/8/2014 5:23 PM
Hate to say it, but in terms of ability JR is the 2nd best player on the team. When JR isn't untying shoe laces he's capable of playing some really good BB. His issue is focus and consistency. I think Fish and Phil will be good for JR. If they can get thru to him it totally changes what this team can do.
I think Jason Smith is here to play ahead of Dalembert and Aldrich. I just get the impression that Dalembert will be coming off the bench. He's only been playing about 20 mpg. Jason and Cole are both able to play much more minutes at this point. They have younger, fresher legs and I can see Fish wanting to go that way.
PassTheBall@ 8/8/2014 5:38 PM
Jason Smith does have the most talent and experience to play the most minutes between himself, Dalembert and Aldrich but he needs to show that in camp and basically earn it.
babyKnicks@ 8/9/2014 1:02 AM
The more I think about it. Bargs may start to allow fish to manage amare's minutes by bringing him off the bench.
I always feel that bargs is a similar player to gasol and can give us that same amount of euro style that the triangle used in la.
I really don't want to see melo at the 4 anymore. That really only worked in isolation plays. In the free flowing system he's def nj/Kobe. Even with Kobe lists as a 2 he played the 3 in the triangle.
PassTheBall@ 8/9/2014 8:04 PM
I think Melo is a stretch 4 in today's game. He rebounds quite well and his scoring speaks for itself.
babyKnicks@ 8/9/2014 11:38 PM
I think his rebounding is overrated. Everyone here who watches him will notice 2-3 per game are off of his own misses. Not saying he's not trying. Just saying a melo rebound is not a lebron rebound.
I would rather he just be a durantula and score with the game coming to him as supposed to the "bully ball" that was a disaster last year.
He's a 3. Bargs is a stretch 4.
smackeddog@ 8/10/2014 10:55 AM
PassTheBall wrote:Jason Smith does have the most talent and experience to play the most minutes between himself, Dalembert and Aldrich but he needs to show that in camp and basically earn it.
I read that he's more of a stretch 4, and a pretty poor rebounder (think only about 12% of his shots last season were dunks/layups)- that kind of limits you in who you can play him with. Definitely not Bargs, maybe not Amar'e either (While it would be nice on offence for Amar'e to play with a stretch 3, rebounding would be a problem). That likely leaves him playing PF when Dalambert or Cole are in the game.
