Knicks · Woj: Love to Cavs is a done deal (page 5)
fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:take that poopy flavored lolipop out of your mouth and stop posting your theories. They suckgunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
what about the rest of the post skippy
dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:take that poopy flavored lolipop out of your mouth and stop posting your theories. They suckgunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
what about the rest of the post skippy
Just take his post as a compliment and enjoy your day. You're not going to get a serious basketball discussion here.
Bonn1997 wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:take that poopy flavored lolipop out of your mouth and stop posting your theories. They suckgunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
what about the rest of the post skippy
Just take his post as a compliment and enjoy your day. You're not going to get a serious basketball discussion here.
oh believe me i do. it's just like the george costanza opposite approach. still i enjoy seeing him flop around like a striper on deck.
dk7th wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
Right. Barring a miracle in free agency and with the cap I see us locked into mediocrity. I guess that's better than the Layden, Isiah & Walsh years. Difference is I don't have the same optimism I had back then. All the heartache made me numb to Knicks disappointment. Maybe I will get excited again once we build a legitimate contender if ever.
Bonn1997 wrote:I tend to seek serious basketball discussions with those who watch the sport. I think its cute your still his little watchdog.dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:take that poopy flavored lolipop out of your mouth and stop posting your theories. They suckgunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
what about the rest of the post skippy
Just take his post as a compliment and enjoy your day. You're not going to get a serious basketball discussion here.
But yea.... this is inspiring a "serious basketball discussion"
he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money.
Good stuff
dk7th wrote:Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible
Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs
He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbers
When you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team
Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to
Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.
This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////
And have been paid since, of his caliber
Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.
Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?
If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season
Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?
Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value
Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?
Absolutely not
Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his career
Absolutely so, and for most of it
I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime
Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team
Bonn1997 wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:take that poopy flavored lolipop out of your mouth and stop posting your theories. They suckgunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
what about the rest of the post skippy
Just take his post as a compliment and enjoy your day. You're not going to get a serious basketball discussion here.
Let's continue to set the fine example, while encouraging him.
Maybe he'll evolve and grow into a role of valued contribution
F500ONE wrote:I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible
Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs
He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbersWhen you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team
Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to
Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////
And have been paid since, of his caliber
Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.
Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?
If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season
Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value
Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?
Absolutely not
Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his careerAbsolutely so, and for most of it
I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime
Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team
Bonn1997 wrote:I can only think of one person who comes close to doing that, he gets piled on by dozens of posters already.
Melo? 
gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?
I don't understand how it's not the same! I found it frustrating that we gave up so much for Melo but thats on Dolan- people have been blaming Melo for years, but at the end of the day how many players refuse to be traded to a team and wait until free agency (especially going into a new cba) so that the team they want to go to can keep all it's assets. It's just a weird standard people hold Melo too- I'm fine with blasting him for his play, on/off defense and iso-ing, but some of the stuff he gets attacked for is just weird. He's evil for taking a max deal? Just odd.
smackeddog wrote:Totally agree. Melo was supposed to take 35 mil less, wait for the owners to change the parameters of free agency and the Nuggets were supposed to sit back and let him walk for nothing just months after LeBron and Bosh did that to their teams. Does Ujiri seem that stupid?gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?I don't understand how it's not the same! I found it frustrating that we gave up so much for Melo but thats on Dolan- people have been blaming Melo for years, but at the end of the day how many players refuse to be traded to a team and wait until free agency (especially going into a new cba) so that the team they want to go to can keep all it's assets. It's just a weird standard people hold Melo too- I'm fine with blasting him for his play, on/off defense and iso-ing, but some of the stuff he gets attacked for is just weird. He's evil for taking a max deal? Just odd.
CrushAlot wrote:F500ONE wrote:I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible
Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs
He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbersWhen you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team
Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to
Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////
And have been paid since, of his caliber
Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.
Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?
If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season
Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value
Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?
Absolutely not
Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his careerAbsolutely so, and for most of it
I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime
Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team
I explained the above to you and apparently it's going over your head
Maybe this next example calms your brain nerves down some, what about this thought
Love currently plays for the Wolves, they aren't any good/////
Quite possibly the best mediocre team in basketball, right there with us
He wants to go play for a winning team in Cleveland, championship material
The situation alone here makes his and Melo's completely different
Melo was on a winning team, with a chance to retool again.
Love is not
Cleveland isn't gutting their team to acquire him
Love does have come culpability wanting out, why Minny isn't a better team with him
Cleveland's cap situation isn't as clear cut either for 2015 space
F500ONE wrote:CrushAlot wrote:F500ONE wrote:I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible
Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs
He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbersWhen you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team
Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to
Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////
And have been paid since, of his caliber
Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.
Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?
If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season
Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value
Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?
Absolutely not
Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his careerAbsolutely so, and for most of it
I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime
Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team
I explained the above to you and apparently it's going over your head
Maybe this next example calms your brain nerves down some, what about this thought
Love currently plays for the Wolves, they aren't any good/////Quite possibly the best mediocre team in basketball, right there with us
He wants to go play for a winning team in Cleveland, championship materialThe situation alone here makes his and Melo's completely different
Melo was on a winning team, with a chance to retool again.Love is not
Cleveland isn't gutting their team to acquire him
Love does have come culpability wanting out, why Minny isn't a better team with him
Cleveland's cap situation isn't as clear cut either for 2015 space
They are not?
And we did?
F500ONE wrote:It didn't go over my head. The situation when Melo was traded to NY was that the owners were telling the players that they were going to lock them out and reign in free agency. Melo like Love had a destination he wanted to go to and wanted a new deal under the old cba. The Nuggets were making the playoffs at the time but they weren't competing for a championship. Adding Melo and Billups to Amare in theory should have made the Knicks very competitive in the east. At the time the plan was to somehow get CP3 to play with Melo and Amare. Unfortunately Amare began having health issues shortly after the trade and the knicks made other moves that made the cp3 move impossible.CrushAlot wrote:F500ONE wrote:I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible
Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs
He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbersWhen you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team
Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to
Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////
And have been paid since, of his caliber
Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.
Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?
If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season
Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value
Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?
Absolutely not
Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his careerAbsolutely so, and for most of it
I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime
Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team
I explained the above to you and apparently it's going over your head
Maybe this next example calms your brain nerves down some, what about this thought
Love currently plays for the Wolves, they aren't any good/////Quite possibly the best mediocre team in basketball, right there with us
He wants to go play for a winning team in Cleveland, championship materialThe situation alone here makes his and Melo's completely different
Melo was on a winning team, with a chance to retool again.Love is not
Cleveland isn't gutting their team to acquire him
Love does have come culpability wanting out, why Minny isn't a better team with him
Cleveland's cap situation isn't as clear cut either for 2015 space
CrushAlot wrote:smackeddog wrote:Totally agree. Melo was supposed to take 35 mil less, wait for the owners to change the parameters of free agency and the Nuggets were supposed to sit back and let him walk for nothing just months after LeBron and Bosh did that to their teams. Does Ujiri seem that stupid?gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?I don't understand how it's not the same! I found it frustrating that we gave up so much for Melo but thats on Dolan- people have been blaming Melo for years, but at the end of the day how many players refuse to be traded to a team and wait until free agency (especially going into a new cba) so that the team they want to go to can keep all it's assets. It's just a weird standard people hold Melo too- I'm fine with blasting him for his play, on/off defense and iso-ing, but some of the stuff he gets attacked for is just weird. He's evil for taking a max deal? Just odd.
Both Cavs and Raps received compensation when they left in S&T deals.
F500ONE wrote:You are right. Do you think the Nuggets after watching them get that type of compensation would rather do a Love/Melo deal or get compensation in a sign and trade like the Cavs and Raps?CrushAlot wrote:smackeddog wrote:Totally agree. Melo was supposed to take 35 mil less, wait for the owners to change the parameters of free agency and the Nuggets were supposed to sit back and let him walk for nothing just months after LeBron and Bosh did that to their teams. Does Ujiri seem that stupid?gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?I don't understand how it's not the same! I found it frustrating that we gave up so much for Melo but thats on Dolan- people have been blaming Melo for years, but at the end of the day how many players refuse to be traded to a team and wait until free agency (especially going into a new cba) so that the team they want to go to can keep all it's assets. It's just a weird standard people hold Melo too- I'm fine with blasting him for his play, on/off defense and iso-ing, but some of the stuff he gets attacked for is just weird. He's evil for taking a max deal? Just odd.
Both Cavs and Raps received compensation when they left in S&T deals.
mreinman wrote:F500ONE wrote:CrushAlot wrote:F500ONE wrote:I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible
Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs
He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbersWhen you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team
Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to
Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////
And have been paid since, of his caliber
Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.
Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?
If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season
Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value
Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?
Absolutely not
Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his careerAbsolutely so, and for most of it
I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime
Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team
I explained the above to you and apparently it's going over your head
Maybe this next example calms your brain nerves down some, what about this thought
Love currently plays for the Wolves, they aren't any good/////Quite possibly the best mediocre team in basketball, right there with us
He wants to go play for a winning team in Cleveland, championship materialThe situation alone here makes his and Melo's completely different
Melo was on a winning team, with a chance to retool again.Love is not
Cleveland isn't gutting their team to acquire him
Love does have come culpability wanting out, why Minny isn't a better team with him
Cleveland's cap situation isn't as clear cut either for 2015 space
They are not?
And we did?
Nope
Cleveland Wiggins 1 body, Bennett 1 body
1st rd Pick nobody
Knicks Gallo 1 body, Chandler 1 body, Felton 1 body, Randolph 1 body, Mozgov 1 body, Curry 1 body
2014 1st rd pick nobody, 2016 1st rd pick nobody, 2012 2nd nobody, 2013 2nd nobody
How many bodies is Cleveland giving up of value
How many bodies did Knicks give up of value
We gave up 6 bodies to get 5 but only 2 really got legit playing time
We beat them in bodies and nobodies value
At least as of now until we see what the official trade will be.
knickscity wrote:CrushAlot wrote:smackeddog wrote:Yep. Not about winning and there isn't even a labor stoppage being threatened by owners where they are going to rein in free agency.fishmike wrote:mreinman wrote:what? No discount for the team? Another prick.he obviously is selfish, is right now counting his money and is laughing at the fans. I can tell you what he's NOT thinking about... winning. He could care less about that.Exactly- if he really cared about winning he would have either said he'd only re-sign with the Cavs, or he would waited until the offseason and just signed with them outright, and then the Cavs wouldn't have had to part with valuable assets- I won't forgive him for this for the next 5 years!!!!
I hope you guys arent seriously comparing the two.
they are... sheer desperation in protecting one of the greatest knicks ever
CrushAlot wrote:F500ONE wrote:It didn't go over my head. The situation when Melo was traded to NY was that the owners were telling the players that they were going to lock them out and reign in free agency. Melo like Love had a destination he wanted to go to and wanted a new deal under the old cba. The Nuggets were making the playoffs at the time but they weren't competing for a championship. Adding Melo and Billups to Amare in theory should have made the Knicks very competitive in the east. At the time the plan was to somehow get CP3 to play with Melo and Amare. Unfortunately Amare began having health issues shortly after the trade and the knicks made other moves that made the cp3 move impossible.CrushAlot wrote:F500ONE wrote:I don't have an issue with Love or Melo getting paid. I do think if you are going to trash a guy for forcing a move prior to players being to be locked out so free agency rules can be changed it seems fair to bring into question a guy that does the same thing when there isn't even a threat of labor stoppage. Both guys could have theoretically finished the year and not made their new teams not give up assets. Of course if you go with that theory you have to assume that their teams are run by very incompetent management that would let them leave for nothing. In Melo's case that had just happened in Miami and Toronto.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Glad you are calling it a theory. What is your theory on Amare opting in? Or Love forcing a trade when there isn't even the threat of a labor stoppage to a team he could just sign with in free agency?gunsnewing wrote:Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see how love taking max money available to join Lebron and Irving is the same as he Melo trade or Melo taking $124m?it's.not.even.close to the same situation. just like you can't look at stats in a vacuum you can't look at these major transactions in a vacuum.
the cavs are in win-now mode for the next two seasons, when lebron's contract ends. lebron on any team brings legitimacy. the dude is already changing his body to suit what he anticipates his new duties are going to be with his two running-mates. he may be a douche in some people's eyes but he's an absolute genius. as it is the cavs now have a 40% chance of winning a title. THAT'S why you pay love that much money!
back in 2010-2011 the knicks were in rebuild mode, not win-now mode. 28-26 and a 7th or 8th seed, first round exit team. all melo had to do was WAIT. but he didn't, couldn't wouldn't. the melo trade yanked the knicks into win-now mode, although it was always going to be an exercise in futility for reasons that have been painfully clear. the reason remains the same: chemistry. some players, especially the so-called "scorers," just don't have it. but lebron at essence is a chemistry guy, like almost ALL the all-time greats.
the knicks, meanwhile, are going to have to wait at least an entire season and then cross their fingers that they can be in win-now mode a year and change from now. so we are paying this guy 24 million dollars for a season where the knicks have a 2% chance in winning a title.
i have a theory as to why melo is the most overpaid player in the league and is still, agonizingly, a knick: he knew he would have failed to win elsewhere playing for less money. think about it: harden and melo? no. rose and melo? no. bryant and melo? no no no!
so he manages to save face, puts the burden on jackson and fisher to pull a rabbit out of a hat (pace nixluva), and basically can remain blithely free of any responsibility!
Love wants to keep his Bird's Rights and sign for more or the most money possible
Let's keep this in perspective, it won't hurt the Cavs
He and Lebron have opt outs at the same time thus creating flexibility for Cavs to play with numbersWhen you lock in early long term, you take way those options from a team
Melo could have signed the exact same contract as Lebron but chose not to
Love signed a Rookie contract extension for 4yrs $60mil.This is a far cry from Derrick Rose max, what others got paid/////
And have been paid since, of his caliber
Because teams feared Wolves would match he never received a legit offer from competition.
Would you say he's been underpaid according to market standards currently?
If yes, he chose to stay in Minny instead of going with a 4yr deal 3yr opt out following season
Would he have lost tons of money with this option considering his QO was competitively high?Not really, he went with loyalty and guaranteed money at less than market value
Has Melo ever been underpaid in his career?
Absolutely not
Has Melo ever been grossly overpaid in his careerAbsolutely so, and for most of it
I think it's reasonable for Love to go get paid at this point, while in his prime
Especially if he'll be playing for a championship contending team
I explained the above to you and apparently it's going over your head
Maybe this next example calms your brain nerves down some, what about this thought
Love currently plays for the Wolves, they aren't any good/////Quite possibly the best mediocre team in basketball, right there with us
He wants to go play for a winning team in Cleveland, championship materialThe situation alone here makes his and Melo's completely different
Melo was on a winning team, with a chance to retool again.Love is not
Cleveland isn't gutting their team to acquire him
Love does have come culpability wanting out, why Minny isn't a better team with him
Cleveland's cap situation isn't as clear cut either for 2015 space
Denver championship material?///// neither were we after acquiring Melo.
In the end Minny is not a playoff team, Cleveland is.
More than likely a championship level team
Melo went from a playoff team to a playoff team.
Love is going from a lottery team to a contending team, not the same