Knicks · After one of my daughters getting married this weekend pocket a little thin. If healhy can Amare make a difference this season? (page 1)

Yes one of my daughters got married this weekend and had a mega reception wedding. I'm so proud ofher. My wife and I spent a boundle but it was worth it when its someone you love.

Now Amare: I was watching some of Amare's old film and when he first came to the knicks. He looked great. Amare is not that old and if he can stay healthy he is an allstar. He seems to take care of his body but his knees are unpredictable. I do believe if he can stay healthy and him and Melo click together they can make some noise. What do you think?

This team needs talent, Phil said it himself. Atrocious defense but he pours in points

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Yes one of my daughters got married this weekend and had a mega reception wedding. I'm so proud ofher. My wife and I spent a boundle but it was worth it when its someone you love.

Now Amare: I was watching some of Amare's old film and when he first came to the knicks. He looked great. Amare is not that old and if he can stay healthy he is an allstar. He seems to take care of his body but his knees are unpredictable. I do believe if he can stay healthy and him and Melo click together they can make some noise. What do you think?

Congrats PapaBear, hopefully, GrandPapaBear soon !
Yes, I hope both STAT, AB, and even some of our previous Knick players do well, like Tyson Chandler/Ariza/ Denver KNICKET's, Ariza, though not against us though
It is possible that we keep one player with a major reduction in salary if they were willing to sign a vet min deal to maybe slightly more
Both could be serviceable with certain skill sets as one of our BIG's
Phil Jackson's career liked to use depth at PG and PF/C in all of his teams along with solid G/F's that are very good defenders (Tenacious will play that role with a vet mentoring him)

knickscity wrote:The main thing is his health. When healthy and playing normal minutes and not scraps....he dominates. Efficient, looks for the low post score and can step back with his j train. damn shame his body just cant hold up.

This team needs talent, Phil said it himself. Atrocious defense but he pours in points

Agreed, he does deserve much credit for working himself back in shape every time after surgeries, set backs, and repeat injuries
He could have easily become an Eddy Curry type player but chose to work hard, go to Hakeem school of training, and worked hard to regain some physical abilities, instead of just collecting his $$$
While he isn't the best defender, he could work himself being a solid 9th/10th man and work better as a shot blocker/rebounder/ and help defender, more importantly being much better as a 1v1 defender vs BACKUP talents

RonRon wrote:

knickscity wrote:The main thing is his health. When healthy and playing normal minutes and not scraps....he dominates. Efficient, looks for the low post score and can step back with his j train. damn shame his body just cant hold up.

This team needs talent, Phil said it himself. Atrocious defense but he pours in points

Agreed, he does deserve much credit for working himself back in shape every time after surgeries, set backs, and repeat injuries
He could have easily become an Eddy Curry type player but chose to work hard, go to Hakeem school of training, and worked hard to regain some physical abilities, instead of just collecting his $$$
While he isn't the best defender, he could work himself being a solid 9th/10th man and work better as a shot blocker/rebounder/ and help defender, more importantly being much better as a 1v1 defender vs BACKUP talents

But yeah, Amare has had alot of basketball lives and most players enduring what he has probably would have quit. He certainly has my respect on that end, even though he hasnt been able to be the contributor he needs to be.

Never too late though, this is his final year on his deal, if he can he'll lay it out there for sure.

Even though his numbers were never great, especially with STEALS/BLOCKS/REBS, he actually was a great part of our DEF and OFF with Lin's year
He commited his work and accepted being the GLUE/DEF/ and FIT IN with everybody
It isn't always about $$$, scoring, but it is about WINNING
He undrestood that, was a true proffesional, was a very good chemistry/glue guy that defended multiple positions, and was glad he was able to come back as a redemption, doing what he needed to do to stay in the league
Letting ego's go and accepting a smaller/backup role isn't easy to do, hopefully STAT can accept and be a part of it
Kmart took some time but was able to play a similar role though with more "enforcing menatlity"
After making max contracts to seeking out 10 days contracts is not easy
Maybe Kmart is resigned, I hope he is, however, with his early bird rights and to have a 2nd year TEAM OPTION/UNGUARANTEED to use as trade bait/matching salaries

It should be remembered outside of his miss layups, I think there should be more players like Jeffries in the league to help mentor/develop young talents that need guidance to go with their athleticism/talents

He also was great at setting screens and double screens, off the ball to free up players like Novak, along with great cut's *although didn't finish enough when was left open*
Jeffries is comarable physically and at their age, of course STAT is much more talented, but he needs to work on his fundamentals, DEF, and the little/dirty stuff to stay in the NBA and contributing
More importantly, getting our young GUNS to think, communicate, and work together as one unit (on both ends), as part of the *winning culture change* that Phil is trying to install

Even when we lacked talent, we played great as a unit, ironically played better with less talent and with more emphasis on TEAM BASKETBALL
Players played together, attacked together/defended together and everyone was happy playing that style at the time

Lin/Iman/TD/Baron Davis
Iman/JR/Fields
Fields/Novak
Novak/JJ
Chandler/JJ

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Yes one of my daughters got married this weekend and had a mega reception wedding. I'm so proud ofher. My wife and I spent a boundle but it was worth it when its someone you love.

Now Amare: I was watching some of Amare's old film and when he first came to the knicks. He looked great. Amare is not that old and if he can stay healthy he is an allstar. He seems to take care of his body but his knees are unpredictable. I do believe if he can stay healthy and him and Melo click together they can make some noise. What do you think?

BigDaddyG wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Yes one of my daughters got married this weekend and had a mega reception wedding. I'm so proud ofher. My wife and I spent a boundle but it was worth it when its someone you love.

Now Amare: I was watching some of Amare's old film and when he first came to the knicks. He looked great. Amare is not that old and if he can stay healthy he is an allstar. He seems to take care of his body but his knees are unpredictable. I do believe if he can stay healthy and him and Melo click together they can make some noise. What do you think?

How many daughters do you have Papa bear?

Papabear Says

I have 5 daughters and 3 sons.

IronWillGiroud wrote:Congratulations, I think weddings are money suck. Google the wedding of Fernando Torres, a millionaire soccer player in Europe, see how he got married, like a normal human being

IWG: You need not comment on everything. The dude is basking in the glow of pride and your still trying to figure out how to make money. You might want to ask him how he succeeds.

Congrats Papa! 8 kids???? Oh my!

Amare? He has gone down each of the last 4 years or has had to come back.

with knicks first year he plays 76 games, 36 min per but back gives out in playoffs.
year two, 47 games @ 32 min per game, year three 29 games @ 23 min per, and last year 65 games @ 22 min as he played back from oblivion. That being his longest stretch in 4 years!!!!!

I have no reason to believe that being older we can expect greater durability. I commend his effort to return and not mail it in but there is a certain reality we have to consider here.

Nalod wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:Congratulations, I think weddings are money suck. Google the wedding of Fernando Torres, a millionaire soccer player in Europe, see how he got married, like a normal human being

IWG: You need not comment on everything. The dude is basking in the glow of pride and your still trying to figure out how to make money. You might want to ask him how he succeeds.

Congrats Papa! 8 kids???? Oh my!

Amare? He has gone down each of the last 4 years or has had to come back.

with knicks first year he plays 76 games, 36 min per but back gives out in playoffs.
year two, 47 games @ 32 min per game, year three 29 games @ 23 min per, and last year 65 games @ 22 min as he played back from oblivion. That being his longest stretch in 4 years!!!!!

I have no reason to believe that being older we can expect greater durability. I commend his effort to return and not mail it in but there is a certain reality we have to consider here.

I'm sorry, a lot of times I don't read posts before commenting. I was out of line and off topic.

8 kids is a lot I only can wish to be so lucky, an incredible achievement

Amare is done

Stat will hopefully give us some hooping in his contract year.

Nalod wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:Congratulations, I think weddings are money suck. Google the wedding of Fernando Torres, a millionaire soccer player in Europe, see how he got married, like a normal human being

IWG: You need not comment on everything. The dude is basking in the glow of pride and your still trying to figure out how to make money. You might want to ask him how he succeeds.

Congrats Papa! 8 kids???? Oh my!

Amare? He has gone down each of the last 4 years or has had to come back.

with knicks first year he plays 76 games, 36 min per but back gives out in playoffs.
year two, 47 games @ 32 min per game, year three 29 games @ 23 min per, and last year 65 games @ 22 min as he played back from oblivion. That being his longest stretch in 4 years!!!!!

I have no reason to believe that being older we can expect greater durability. I commend his effort to return and not mail it in but there is a certain reality we have to consider here.

Wait a minute, one of those yr's was the lock out, and had there been a real training staff on deck, he would have been good to go with those back issues.

He had a procedure done on his knees that went ok, but had to be cleaned out 6 months later cuz the fckrs who did the procedure fail to do it right

Missed about 8 gmaes due to his brothers death. We all talk about Amare like his knees are the main reason he missed so many games, but it's not. He just decided not to play and do a jr and shump, Those 2 came back too early from their knee woes, and hurt the team, rather then helped.

TripleThreat wrote:

Papabear wrote:Now Amare: I was watching some of Amare's old film and when he first came to the knicks. He looked great. Amare is not that old and if he can stay healthy he is an allstar. He seems to take care of his body but his knees are unpredictable. I do believe if he can stay healthy and him and Melo click together they can make some noise. What do you think?

IIRC, when STAT was a free agent during the Hunt For LJB offseason, the concern for Phoenix wasn't the first couple of years on a new Amare Stoudamire contract, it would be the last 2-3 years of it, that they felt would be a millstone around the neck of the franchise.

I think it's unrealistic to expect a player, esp an aging one, with serious fundamental deficiencies, with an injury history, to revert back to his playing capability of 3-5 years ago.

STAT is not an All Star player. He hasn't been in a very long time. He likely won't be again in the future. I hate to say it, but I think lots of Knicks fans need to see practically what he can do now versus what he might do in some circumstance that tends to defy most sports/NBA convention about age/injuries and production.

IMHO, STAT is a 5th big on a 15 man roster for a contender. He can give you some offensive punch in your 2nd or 3rd unit to hold a lead or to close out a blowout or to eat minutes when you are being blown out.

Can he help an NBA team? Absolutely.

But, more critically, can he help the Knicks this year and in their current circumstance? I doubt it.

If you can't play defense after being in the league for a decade, I think it's a full on reach to expect someone to suddenly develop a massive shift in their game. Nothing about STATs track record shows him developing other aspects of his game as he's been declining. He was a face the basket big who relied on his athleticism who lost his athleticism. He does not do well with his back to the basket. But he does clog up the post area because he does not have an elite three point shot to space the floor. (Which is why the Chandler/Melo/STAT combo was such a problem)

I think developing a legit low post game late in your NBA career is difficult and not very likely. I think developing a reliable three point shot late in your NBA career is also difficult and not very likely. However between the two, I think better odds are on developing a three point shot, esp a corner three, rather than working the low post ( Learning to move and operate in tight traffic and heavy contact is an art, taking a wide open three ball look is a bit less of a challenge)

If STAT really wanted to help the Knicks this year, he could have spent the last few years developing a reliable league average three point shot for a Stretch 4. At least he would create spacing and not neutralize Melo in the post and/or any Knicks center in the post. If you have deficiencies on your roster, chucking up a lot of three pointers does mask some of them if you can hit them at a high enough rate. Long two point shots are decidely inefficient in the modern NBA.

When have STAT and Melo ever "clicked" together? When has TNT or ESPN talked about how deadly the STAT/Melo combo has been in the league? Again, if it hasn't happened already, why would it happen right now? I don't think that's a realistic expectation.

I've said this before, the STAT situation isn't just an indictment on the Knicks and their front office at that time, but also on the way the league is structured. STAT is a player who would be more valuable to a team and the league if his contract was non guaranteed and the Knicks could have cut him and he could have signed to a contender for much less. I think his erosion as a player would be seen as more forgivable in that light.

Instead that cap hit and all the compromises he creates on the courts just makes him to be an albatross that the team can't wait to get rid of so they can start over.

STAT in current form is not an All Star. He will probably never make an All Star game again in his life. He has almost no trade value except to help a team hit the salary floor. He has little to no actual current utility for this Knicks roster and for Phil Jackson's desires for this team.

( On an aside, congratulations to you and yours and your family )

This is by no means a 5th string big, especially in a ERA where bigs are rare as ever. The only reason him and melo didn't click was 3 things, 1) woodson, 2) no pg 3)hardly played togther, and Tyson made matters worse. Playing a big line up against small ball competition, which damn near the entire east runs.

He still has 85% of his athletic abilty, and it's smack dead in front of you

That being said if we can get that type of production for 68-70 games--get production from JR and Carmelo with tHJ playing a real 6th man role and everyone else contributing--we should be able to stand toe to toe with any team any night-------I think.

BRIGGS wrote:If Amare could play 33 minutes, he'd average 18-20 points grab 7.5 rebounds block 1+ shot and shoot close to 55%. To play 32-33 minutes. we'd have to keep him at 68-70 games, basically giving him many night s off on the B-B. But we have 5 bigs--we should have 6 and taking 2 SF's in the draft is beyond me, especially when Cory Jefferson was better than anyone we drafted.

That being said if we can get that type of production for 68-70 games--get production from JR and Carmelo with tHJ playing a real 6th man role and everyone else contributing--we should be able to stand toe to toe with any team any night-------I think.

I don't see a reason to play STAT 32 mpg. I think it's smarter to make use of the bigs on the bench and keep STAT fresh. A strong performance from STAT in 25-28 mpg should be just as effective. Let him go longer in the playoffs.

May the remain together forever

BRIGGS wrote:If Amare could play 33 minutes, he'd average 18-20 points grab 7.5 rebounds block 1+ shot and shoot close to 55%. To play 32-33 minutes. we'd have to keep him at 68-70 games, basically giving him many night s off on the B-B. But we have 5 bigs--we should have 6 and taking 2 SF's in the draft is beyond me, especially when Cory Jefferson was better than anyone we drafted.

That being said if we can get that type of production for 68-70 games--get production from JR and Carmelo with tHJ playing a real 6th man role and everyone else contributing--we should be able to stand toe to toe with any team any night-------I think.

I don't see a reason to play STAT 32 mpg or more. I think it's smarter to make use of the bigs on the bench and keep STAT fresh. A strong performance from STAT in 25-28 mpg should be just as effective. Let him go longer in the playoffs.