Knicks · OT: Should Yankeee fire Cashman & Girardi? (page 2)
Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:Ok, fire him.Change what? Rebuild? Starphuch more?
They outed Cano so they could spread the money to different needs. In hindsight its easy to say "Woulda-coulda-shoulda" but thats not how this works. Team held on for about half the season. When there is no ace on the staff, its gonna fall a part at some point.
If Hank wants to go the route of building thru the farm Im cool with that but those black seats behind home plate will be thin!
Building a decent farm system doesn't have to mean you never sign good FAs. In fact, before Cashman came in the late 90s, the team was doing both very well. You're right that we can't just blame everything on Cashman - these Steinbrenners suck too. But even with them here, Cashman shouldn't be fielding teams that struggle to stay at .500.The problem I'm having, why are their FA struggling all of a sudden. They also seem to take a page right out of the KNICKS franchise "the era of injuries. When a teams entire pitching starters goes down one after the other, I'm not sure you can blame that on anyone.
Was giradi over working his starters?
I tell you what, back to back yrs of failing to make the playoffs, on a big money budget..yeah somebody has got take the blame.
I doubt the pitching staff going down has impacted the record - the replacements are generally doing better than the original guys (other than Tanaka). CC's ERA in his last 40 starts is almost 6.00 actually. Losing him has probably saved us a few wins.
The struggles of the FA acquisitions are more extreme than I expected but the struggles probably relate to the players' ages in most cases.
I think most people don't realize how badly the team has played. They have a run differential around -30, which usually means they'd be a .400 or .450 team but they have luckily won a disproportionately high percentage of their close games. Even if a lot of these guys had stayed healthy but the team just had average luck, they'd probably still only be a .550 team. That's what the models were projecting before the season started.
A healthy CC, not bad knee CC with high ERA.
Pinada loss is ok cuz Montero turned into a fat toad, but still its a wasted asset.Blame? Blame the plan. LIke the knicks who is steering the ship?
Relax, its not like its been 40 years since the Yanks last one. Or 30. Or 20. Or 10.
I want a Yankees team worth watching. Again, we have a team whose schedule I don't even look up anymore because it's not worth my time to watch.
They are unwatchable and the fact that there is not one homegrown yankee on this team with star potential for the foreseeable future. They let Cano walk over pettiness and you know they are regretting it today.
In what world does a GM & coach survive this display of ineptitude? People have been fired for a lot less. It's clear the owners are inept as well. Sometimes you just have to have the courage to shake things up. They clearly do not.
I think Terry Francona is an amazing manager. Would love to see him manage the Yankees one day. I think we need a complete shake up. From GM to coach to scouting and development. Or hopefully the Steinbrenners sell
nyk4ever wrote:why should either get fired? everyone loved the signings of beltran, mccann and elsbury in the offseason. injuries have killed the team, can't predict that. if anything, they should be commended (especially giardi) for keeping this team afloat all year.
How do you sign a 37yr old Beltran to a 4yr deal. How do you sign a catcher who is north of 30 and has steadily declined to 4yrs? It wreaks of desperation to me and proves the Yankees will just throw money at players. This team is going to be a bore to watch for years to come because they will continue to lock themselves into bad contracts and continue to not develop talent. We gotta to back over a decade to the last time they developed a star. And that was Cano who they let walk but had no problem giving long term contracts to old declining former stars. Complete ineptitude. When was the last time they develop a front of the rotation pitcher. Oh right Andy Pettite 20yrs ago.
Uptown wrote:nyk4ever wrote:why should either get fired? everyone loved the signings of beltran, mccann and elsbury in the offseason. injuries have killed the team, can't predict that. if anything, they should be commended (especially giardi) for keeping this team afloat all year.^^^^This....Yankee fans are spoiled. We've had a great run over the last decade, but its foolish to think it wouldn't come to an end at some point. Despite the injuries, etc Giradi has still kept the team in it....
Did it have to end? They could've valued Cano. Instead they clearly undervalued him. That's inept management IMO
gunsnewing wrote:nyk4ever wrote:why should either get fired? everyone loved the signings of beltran, mccann and elsbury in the offseason. injuries have killed the team, can't predict that. if anything, they should be commended (especially giardi) for keeping this team afloat all year.How do you sign a 37yr old Beltran to a 4yr deal. How do you sign a catcher who is north of 30 and has steadily declined to 4yrs? It wreaks of desperation to me and proves the Yankees will just throw money at players. This team is going to be a bore to watch for years to come because they will continue to lock themselves into bad contracts and continue to not develop talent. We gotta to back over a decade to the last time they developed a star. And that was Cano who they let walk but had no problem giving long term contracts to old declining former stars. Complete ineptitude. When was the last time they develop a front of the rotation pitcher. Oh right Andy Pettite 20yrs ago.
I hadn't realized that the yankees signed beltran to a 4 year deal. That is sheer craziness!
I'm a met fan, but I have to hand it to Girardi- he's done a nice job keeping this team together.
And I think Cashman has been ok- we have no idea what he has to navigate with ownership demands.
I think the Yankees have fallen into the same trap the Knicks have been in - where they think one more move, or series of moves, can put them back over the top.
I appreciate what the mets are trying to do - build a sustainable winner from the ground up. I don't mind them not spending. In fact, I cringed when they signed Curtis Granderson.
gunsnewing wrote:nyk4ever wrote:why should either get fired? everyone loved the signings of beltran, mccann and elsbury in the offseason. injuries have killed the team, can't predict that. if anything, they should be commended (especially giardi) for keeping this team afloat all year.How do you sign a 37yr old Beltran to a 4yr deal. How do you sign a catcher who is north of 30 and has steadily declined to 4yrs? It wreaks of desperation to me and proves the Yankees will just throw money at players. This team is going to be a bore to watch for years to come because they will continue to lock themselves into bad contracts and continue to not develop talent. We gotta to back over a decade to the last time they developed a star. And that was Cano who they let walk but had no problem giving long term contracts to old declining former stars. Complete ineptitude. When was the last time they develop a front of the rotation pitcher. Oh right Andy Pettite 20yrs ago.
beltran got a 3yr 45mill deal and took 3mil less to sign with the yankees. arizona offered him MORE money, so that logic doesn't work. beltran had a great year last year, there was nothing wrong with the signing.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/...
Free-agent outfielder Carlos Beltran has agreed to a three-year, $45 million deal with the New York Yankees, sources confirmed to ESPN.com on Friday night.Beltran, 36, hit .296 with 24 home runs and 84 RBIs in 145 games this past season for the NL champion St. Louis Cardinals.
Beltran took $3 million less to sign with the Yankees, sources told ESPNNewYork.com's Andrew Marchand. Beltran had an offer for three years and $48 million with another club. A source with knowledge of those discussions said Beltran was "down the road" with that team.
More from ESPN.com
Keith Law says that Carlos Beltran helps the Yankees' offense, but he's showing signs of age and he doesn't solve the Yankees' biggest problems. Blog Insider
• Olney: Yanks have purposeful plan Insider
• Marchand: Reaction to dealBeltran met with the Arizona Diamondbacks in Phoenix earlier this week, when the team made a three-year offer exceeding $45 million, The Arizona Republic reported Friday.
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:Ok, fire him.Change what? Rebuild? Starphuch more?
They outed Cano so they could spread the money to different needs. In hindsight its easy to say "Woulda-coulda-shoulda" but thats not how this works. Team held on for about half the season. When there is no ace on the staff, its gonna fall a part at some point.
If Hank wants to go the route of building thru the farm Im cool with that but those black seats behind home plate will be thin!
Building a decent farm system doesn't have to mean you never sign good FAs. In fact, before Cashman came in the late 90s, the team was doing both very well. You're right that we can't just blame everything on Cashman - these Steinbrenners suck too. But even with them here, Cashman shouldn't be fielding teams that struggle to stay at .500.The problem I'm having, why are their FA struggling all of a sudden. They also seem to take a page right out of the KNICKS franchise "the era of injuries. When a teams entire pitching starters goes down one after the other, I'm not sure you can blame that on anyone.
Was giradi over working his starters?
I tell you what, back to back yrs of failing to make the playoffs, on a big money budget..yeah somebody has got take the blame.
I doubt the pitching staff going down has impacted the record - the replacements are generally doing better than the original guys (other than Tanaka). CC's ERA in his last 40 starts is almost 6.00 actually. Losing him has probably saved us a few wins.
The struggles of the FA acquisitions are more extreme than I expected but the struggles probably relate to the players' ages in most cases.
I think most people don't realize how badly the team has played. They have a run differential around -30, which usually means they'd be a .400 or .450 team but they have luckily won a disproportionately high percentage of their close games. Even if a lot of these guys had stayed healthy but the team just had average luck, they'd probably still only be a .550 team. That's what the models were projecting before the season started.
A healthy CC, not bad knee CC with high ERA.
Pinada loss is ok cuz Montero turned into a fat toad, but still its a wasted asset.Blame? Blame the plan. LIke the knicks who is steering the ship?
Relax, its not like its been 40 years since the Yanks last one. Or 30. Or 20. Or 10.
I want a Yankees team worth watching. Again, we have a team whose schedule I don't even look up anymore because it's not worth my time to watch.
They are unwatchable and the fact that there is not one homegrown yankee on this team with star potential for the foreseeable future. They let Cano walk over pettiness and you know they are regretting it today.
In what world does a GM & coach survive this display of ineptitude? People have been fired for a lot less. It's clear the owners are inept as well. Sometimes you just have to have the courage to shake things up. They clearly do not.
I think Terry Francona is an amazing manager. Would love to see him manage the Yankees one day. I think we need a complete shake up. From GM to coach to scouting and development. Or hopefully the Steinbrenners sell
The cano thing was understandable to a certain extent. We have paid a lot money over the yrs to players who didn't come close to living up to expectations, Cano is not worth 26 million a yr.
All the yankess were doing, was trying not to make the same mistake for the 10 time. Since the yanks have clearly gone in a different direction as far as talent search, that clearly rest on the shoulders of cashman.
In the post steroid ERA, the yankees are not doing they're homework, and they are not being patient with their farm teams.
BRIGGS wrote:One word Mets
+1
Uptown wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Mets are going to own this town for a decade if they add a few bats at Shortstop & Outfield. There pitching with Harvey & deGrom and whoever else pans out is really something special.Go Mets
Go HornetsLMAO at this logic. If any baseball team added a few bats, shortstop and outfield they would own any city...
Yeah, Go already. LOL
The Mets. Didn't they get a chance to own the city after '80's? Oh yeah, that's right, the 2000 World Series already happened...
I think that's a tough bet - but I told him I'd take the yankees - because the mets will fail despite their best efforts while the yankees will still find a way to overcome any challenges. I doubt either gets to a world series, but if I had to pick which of the two is most likely to get there in the next three years - I'd pick the yankees.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-...
I think I'll buy MLB extra innings on a quarterly basis instead of for the full season next year. No point in having it and not watching in the 2nd half.
Bonn1997 wrote:Looks like Cashman is getting another long-term deal
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-...
I think I'll buy MLB extra innings on a quarterly basis instead of for the full season next year. No point in having it and not watching in the 2nd half.
Young Steinbrenners have no guts. They already extended Girardi after missing the playoffs last year
Might be time to start rooting for the Mets
The team is unwatchable. I would not spend the money to watch them for a full season
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Looks like Cashman is getting another long-term deal
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-...
I think I'll buy MLB extra innings on a quarterly basis instead of for the full season next year. No point in having it and not watching in the 2nd half.Young Steinbrenners have no guts. They already extended Girardi after missing the playoffs last year
Might be time to start rooting for the Mets
The team is unwatchable. I would not spend the money to watch them for a full season
I know, the assumption is SOMEONE has go to be better than Cashman or Girardi!!!
But who is it? Who can management trust?
Hire someone that just did a good job and think that can transfer right away like an athlete can?
The roster and financials are what they are and unless the directive is to rebuild and take the financial hit that comes with it
the team will try to make a hybrid of both.
If you leave Yanks to root for mets on the basis of the last few years your not really a dyed in the wool fan. Your basically "ro
Nalod wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Looks like Cashman is getting another long-term deal
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-...
I think I'll buy MLB extra innings on a quarterly basis instead of for the full season next year. No point in having it and not watching in the 2nd half.Young Steinbrenners have no guts. They already extended Girardi after missing the playoffs last year
Might be time to start rooting for the Mets
The team is unwatchable. I would not spend the money to watch them for a full season
I know, the assumption is SOMEONE has go to be better than Cashman or Girardi!!!
But who is it? Who can management trust?
Hire someone that just did a good job and think that can transfer right away like an athlete can?
The roster and financials are what they are and unless the directive is to rebuild and take the financial hit that comes with it
the team will try to make a hybrid of both.If you leave Yanks to root for mets on the basis of the last few years your not really a dyed in the wool fan. Your basically "ro
That is the problem. The Steinbrenners dont know enough baseball to put a winning front office together. The guys who made the yankees successful are gone. The players, the scouts, Gene Michael, managers and George
They are like the New York Knicks now
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Looks like Cashman is getting another long-term deal
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-...
I think I'll buy MLB extra innings on a quarterly basis instead of for the full season next year. No point in having it and not watching in the 2nd half.Young Steinbrenners have no guts. They already extended Girardi after missing the playoffs last year
Might be time to start rooting for the Mets
The team is unwatchable. I would not spend the money to watch them for a full season
Yeah that sure was unwatchable the last two games. Have fun watching the Mets battling to become totally irrelevant. SMH
jrodmc wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Looks like Cashman is getting another long-term deal
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-...
I think I'll buy MLB extra innings on a quarterly basis instead of for the full season next year. No point in having it and not watching in the 2nd half.Young Steinbrenners have no guts. They already extended Girardi after missing the playoffs last year
Might be time to start rooting for the Mets
The team is unwatchable. I would not spend the money to watch them for a full season
Yeah that sure was unwatchable the last two games. Have fun watching the Mets battling to become totally irrelevant. SMH
Yes they almost lost another series
and to a last place Red Sox team at Yankee Stadium
They are not making the playoffs
gunsnewing wrote:jrodmc wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Looks like Cashman is getting another long-term deal
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-...
I think I'll buy MLB extra innings on a quarterly basis instead of for the full season next year. No point in having it and not watching in the 2nd half.Young Steinbrenners have no guts. They already extended Girardi after missing the playoffs last year
Might be time to start rooting for the Mets
The team is unwatchable. I would not spend the money to watch them for a full season
Yeah that sure was unwatchable the last two games. Have fun watching the Mets battling to become totally irrelevant. SMH
Yes they almost lost another series
and to a last place Red Sox team at Yankee Stadium
They are not making the playoffs
And how are the Mets doing?
gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Looks like Cashman is getting another long-term deal
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-...
I think I'll buy MLB extra innings on a quarterly basis instead of for the full season next year. No point in having it and not watching in the 2nd half.Young Steinbrenners have no guts. They already extended Girardi after missing the playoffs last year
Might be time to start rooting for the Mets
The team is unwatchable. I would not spend the money to watch them for a full season
wow, you are lost bro. how is any of the blame on girardi? he has done a fantastic job managing the parts that have been given to him. i never have been a huge girardi fan but the managing job he's done this year and last has been great. cashman has to take heat for the farm system though.
nyk4ever wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Looks like Cashman is getting another long-term deal
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-...
I think I'll buy MLB extra innings on a quarterly basis instead of for the full season next year. No point in having it and not watching in the 2nd half.Young Steinbrenners have no guts. They already extended Girardi after missing the playoffs last year
Might be time to start rooting for the Mets
The team is unwatchable. I would not spend the money to watch them for a full season
wow, you are lost bro. how is any of the blame on girardi? he has done a fantastic job managing the parts that have been given to him. i never have been a huge girardi fan but the managing job he's done this year and last has been great. cashman has to take heat for the farm system though.
Please, take this whole thread with a grain. maybe a few grains.
Disguntled Met masochists and terminally unhappy Knick fans.
Nalod wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Looks like Cashman is getting another long-term deal
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-...
I think I'll buy MLB extra innings on a quarterly basis instead of for the full season next year. No point in having it and not watching in the 2nd half.Young Steinbrenners have no guts. They already extended Girardi after missing the playoffs last year
Might be time to start rooting for the Mets
The team is unwatchable. I would not spend the money to watch them for a full season
I know, the assumption is SOMEONE has go to be better than Cashman or Girardi!!!
But who is it? Who can management trust?
Hire someone that just did a good job and think that can transfer right away like an athlete can?
The roster and financials are what they are and unless the directive is to rebuild and take the financial hit that comes with it
the team will try to make a hybrid of both.If you leave Yanks to root for mets on the basis of the last few years your not really a dyed in the wool fan. Your basically "ro
Put it this way, despite having every conceivable advantage, the team only won one championship in the past 13 years. If championships were given out just by flipping coins, almost half the teams would have a ring every 13 years.