I'm Black and I don't find the emails offensive in the least. I'm not sure why this guy self-reported a non-story and don't understand why he feels compelled to sell his team, unless this is a smokescreen for something else. I wouldn't be surprised if he's being blackmailed with something bigger.
http://www.si.com/nba/2014/09/07/bruce-l...
NardDogNation wrote:I'm Black and I don't find the emails offensive in the least. I'm not sure why this guy self-reported a non-story and don't understand why he feels compelled to sell his team, unless this is a smokescreen for something else. I wouldn't be surprised if he's being blackmailed with something bigger.http://www.si.com/nba/2014/09/07/bruce-l...
I get why he's going, after the Stirling thing- plus even if you take racism out of it, it's never good business to basically insult or alienate your main customers.
I'm all for people learning and developing from their mistakes (unless they are malicious), but I suspect the reason why he's so keen to go is because he's not making any money and probably figures after seeing the Clippers sale, he'll make a big chunk of cash from selling.
The Braves are moving out of a downtown stadium thats not 20 years old and away from MARTA lines to be in the Suburbs. Its not black or white, its MONEY and its why people own teams.
ATL is a transient city with a huge population that moved from other parts of the country and a very large Corporate base and yet its teams struggle for many reasons. I don't think the owner was ugly but I can see how its offensive. On the other hand if all the cheer leaders were white and they only catered to white fans is that racist? They tried to appeal to the largest demographic in the region and the ticket sales are weak. Is that racist?
smackeddog wrote:NardDogNation wrote:I'm Black and I don't find the emails offensive in the least. I'm not sure why this guy self-reported a non-story and don't understand why he feels compelled to sell his team, unless this is a smokescreen for something else. I wouldn't be surprised if he's being blackmailed with something bigger.http://www.si.com/nba/2014/09/07/bruce-l...
I get why he's going, after the Stirling thing- plus even if you take racism out of it, it's never good business to basically insult or alienate your main customers.
I'm all for people learning and developing from their mistakes (unless they are malicious), but I suspect the reason why he's so keen to go is because he's not making any money and probably figures after seeing the Clippers sale, he'll make a big chunk of cash from selling.
The thing is though that I don't think he's trying to insult or alienate fans. I just think he's trying to maximize his profits by appealing to a broader base. There is nothing wrong with that in my opinion.
Beyond that, I don't think he's making a value judgment about Black people. He just understands the perception a majority of people have about Black people. The perception lends itself to a culture where I could be unarmed and still be deemed a lethal threat, requiring lethal force. But a James Holmes, carrying 7,000 rounds of ammunition is misconstrued as being non-threatening and could be apprehended. Levenson isn't trying to further or embrace that culture, he just understands it exist and had the balls to acknowledge it.
If the Email was made public in an accusatory tone I can see where it gets a life of its own and the team gets alienated which further hurts business.
Levenson might just see that given interest rates are so low and the Clippers/Bucks went for a good price it maybe time to cash in rather than try to change its fortunes.
Maybe some of our guys living in GA can chime in on this?
NardDogNation wrote:I'm Black and I don't find the emails offensive in the least. I'm not sure why this guy self-reported a non-story and don't understand why he feels compelled to sell his team, unless this is a smokescreen for something else. I wouldn't be surprised if he's being blackmailed with something bigger.http://www.si.com/nba/2014/09/07/bruce-l...
Wait, what?!??!! The Hawks have a fan base? It'd hard to tell from all those empty seats I see on TV.
BigDaddyG wrote:NardDogNation wrote:I'm Black and I don't find the emails offensive in the least. I'm not sure why this guy self-reported a non-story and don't understand why he feels compelled to sell his team, unless this is a smokescreen for something else. I wouldn't be surprised if he's being blackmailed with something bigger.http://www.si.com/nba/2014/09/07/bruce-l...
Wait, what?!??!! The Hawks have a fan base? It'd hard to tell from all those empty seats I see on TV.
and the reply of the thread goes to.... :)
yes i live in atl. hawks fans suck
How is this any different from MLB/Bud Selig diversity program. MLB has programs designed to get more black kids playing baseball since # of black guys in mob is way down. Is that racist? SMH
MX25 wrote:How is this any different from MLB/Bud Selig diversity program. MLB has programs designed to get more black kids playing baseball since # of black guys in mob is way down. Is that racist? SMH
...because Bud Selig's program is inherently aimed at being inclusive. Levenson's game plan was to increase white attendance by trying to par down black attendance. Again, I don't necessarily see a problem with it because his motives are financially driven and his industry is in entertainment based. But you can't seriously believe that there is parity between the two situations.
Maybe he wanted to get rid of the team ASAP and saw how fast Sterling sold the team and for how much. The process of selling the team is slow.... he basically expedited the process. As a mega wealthy business man, image is nothing when it comes to making 2 billion dollars.
EnySpree wrote:Maybe he wanted to get rid of the team ASAP and saw how fast Sterling sold the team and for how much. The process of selling the team is slow.... he basically expedited the process. As a mega wealthy business man, image is nothing when it comes to making 2 billion dollars.
I still don't get why he would self-report this e-mail unless he knew it was about to be made public by someone else.
Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Maybe he wanted to get rid of the team ASAP and saw how fast Sterling sold the team and for how much. The process of selling the team is slow.... he basically expedited the process. As a mega wealthy business man, image is nothing when it comes to making 2 billion dollars.
I still don't get why he would self-report this e-mail unless he knew it was about to be made public by someone else.
It's weird. Hence the Playa conspiracy
Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Maybe he wanted to get rid of the team ASAP and saw how fast Sterling sold the team and for how much. The process of selling the team is slow.... he basically expedited the process. As a mega wealthy business man, image is nothing when it comes to making 2 billion dollars.
I still don't get why he would self-report this e-mail unless he knew it was about to be made public by someone else.
Yeah that's what I think as well. He wrote that email in 2012 I think? I doubt all of a sudden he just wanted to come clean.
Interesting. I read the email and while brutally honest, I can't say I was surprised or personally offended... US business, particularly in entertainment, is really big about chasing this or that demographic or psychographic, with all the racism, sexism, and ageism that goes with it... but the profit motive has a way of "whitewashing" these discussions, if you will pardon the pun.
But I've never really been to the real South — never been anywhere between northern Va. and Tampa Bay, partially because I've internalized a similar sort of thinking. Not a place I'd be welcome. But maybe because this guy was all "no tolerance" when Sterling's drama went on, he sealed his own fate... or like y'all said, just wants to get out.
I just don't know how accurate he is about the money not being there in the black community. I thought there were a lot of black dollars down there up for grabs. Or all those folks are relocated Knicks fans! Maybe the economic failures is more of a testament to a failure of their on-court product, coupled with a failure of outreach due to the cynical assumptions that this email reveals.
TL;DR:
The "black" thing was good for a while in some leaner times, but Hawks wanted to move on up without doing the hard work of making teams people give a crap about. Execs care about corporations and their precious box seats, not the plebs and bleacher creatures. More white dudes in the former, more blacks in the latter. Surprise, surprise.
Also their GM, Ferry is being disciplined by the nba- in a conference call with 7 other Hawk figures, he repeated a line from a report they had done that about Deng and said Deng "had some african in him". No idea what the f*** that is meant to mean. Personally, I think thats probably more damaging as Ferry is in a recruiting role.
Edit:
Just found the full quote:
He's still a young guy overall. He's a good guy overall. But he's not perfect. He's got some African in him.
And I don't say that in a bad way
Still no idea what the hell it means.
NardDogNation wrote:MX25 wrote:How is this any different from MLB/Bud Selig diversity program. MLB has programs designed to get more black kids playing baseball since # of black guys in mob is way down. Is that racist? SMH
...because Bud Selig's program is inherently aimed at being inclusive. Levenson's game plan was to increase white attendance by trying to par down black attendance. Again, I don't necessarily see a problem with it because his motives are financially driven and his industry is in entertainment based. But you can't seriously believe that there is parity between the two situations.
It's an interesting comparison though. Black American (meaning native-born, Southern-descended "Anglo"-American black folks, versus Caribbean & Central American black folks) participation being way down is both an issue of an overcoming of past discrimination and relevance to the future. The color barriers of baseball post-WWII was a big part (if symbolically) of the Civil Rights struggles that followed the next decade, so to see that legacy not represented in both current players and fanbase has rung alarms to the old timers and the league to do something. Because it is a startling downturn for a quintessentially American demo to reject America's past time. Maybe North American sports are a zero-sum game and the NFL and NBA simply offer a more interesting product. Maybe Levenson needs to buy a piece of the Braves!
The Hawks thing is more about box seats and profits, so I'm not going to have the same sort of empathy for their situation, but I think MX25's comparison isn't apples and oranges. But the difference is that in the background of the Hawks' email is the faint echo of white supremacy, or white folks' wallet supremacy at least. That's the core difference.
EDIT: which is probably just a long-winded version of what you just said, haha.
smackeddog wrote:Also their GM, Ferry is being disciplined by the nba- in a conference call with 7 other Hawk figures, he repeated a line from a report they had done that about Deng and said Deng "had some african in him". No idea what the f*** that is meant to mean. Personally, I think thats probably more damaging as Ferry is in a recruiting role.Edit:
Just found the full quote:
He's still a young guy overall. He's a good guy overall. But he's not perfect. He's got some African in him.
And I don't say that in a bad way
Still no idea what the hell it means.
Yea, that's weird. Is "African" the new "Euro"? Benefit of doubt: is there some sort of stereotype about the style of the African player like there are for Europeans?
(Deng is a Brit from Brixton, btw!)
smackeddog wrote:Also their GM, Ferry is being disciplined by the nba- in a conference call with 7 other Hawk figures, he repeated a line from a report they had done that about Deng and said Deng "had some african in him". No idea what the f*** that is meant to mean. Personally, I think thats probably more damaging as Ferry is in a recruiting role.Edit:
Just found the full quote:
He's still a young guy overall. He's a good guy overall. But he's not perfect. He's got some African in him.
And I don't say that in a bad way
Still no idea what the hell it means.
I think what he meant was referring to the comments the owners had used in terms of fan-base 2 years prior(the email that made the owner resign/sell). You'd have to go back as they were talking about their fan base but I believe it was in the context presented to him by his boss initially. I do not think ferry was using it detrimentally in the context that was used but it can sound really poor in general terms. Now does a player who has a 90mm $ contract who gets caught using a racist remark or perceived racist remark in private usage going to have his contract voided? There has to be a reasonable threshold level of toleration for verbal remarks that can be used against you. I think Streling was dramatically over the line and there was justifiable termination especially given his long poor history. These two guys on basis have no track records of racism nor do their words in context go that far over the line. In business people refer to whites Latinos African Americans or blacks Chinese or Asian age gender etc as demographics all the time.
