Knicks · Melo on Melo: I make un-smart basketball decisions (page 7)

F500ONE wrote:

dk7th wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

no matter how you slice it, the regular-season (AKA the jayvee season) improvement is one thing, whereupon the success beyond that, ie the playoffs, will flatten out the curve right away. does anybody ever really appreciate the difference in so many ways between regular season games and playoff games, especially those played after the first rounds? the key component is whether you make others better.

by way of comparison, bird took his team to the conference finals his rookie season. this was when he took a prior 29-53 team to a 61-21 regular season record, a 32-game improvement. when you have talent then substantial regular-season turnarounds are possible, albeit not to such a drastic degree. bird made others better.

the key is what do you do in the playoffs? do you get annihilated in first round after first round like "melo's teams" do?

david robinson also made a remarkable difference in the regular season. playoffs he did fairly well but then stalled in the second round. that basically demonstrates that the admiral is a notch or two below bird in terms of making others around him better.

there are probably other examples out there, some fewer than 26 game improvements, some greater than 26 game improvements. the point is that if you are not a playoff-caliber player, with the proper tools, conditioning, and mindset to compete at that level, it doesn't matter how well you do in the regular season. you will always be exposed in the crucible of the playoffs. playoff failure makes regular season improvement look shallow and meaningless.

and these days a first round appearance just doesn't count for much because of league bloat and talent dilution. the stars on the spurs and the ex-heat as well as dirk understand this so they are willing to take less to increase their ability to contend.

Jason Kidd and Duncan would be other fitting examples

New Jersey and Spurs peak sustainable success

I doubt Melo ever makes varsity level of play

Also I'm not going to make big deals

Of teams improving from Lottery status

Because it's a low standard benchmark

I will however measure postseason success season to season

It's a key reason why quite a few are down on Melo....how often has he sustained anything close to his regular season play in the playoffs?

Rarely as a Nugget, never as a Knick.

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:That would make sense if Brand & Dwill weren't also both capable of being difference makers to go along with higher level of talent along side of them at the times they played Denver.

Clippers ran into a Denver team that had Greg Buckner and Eduardo Najara as heavy rotation players which is why they were a better team then the Nuggets.

I see when they win and go to the WCF its a Billups led team. When they lose it becomes a Melo led team.

Rather then admitting that Clippers and Utah were better teams then you initially thought and or Denver didn't hold as much talent as you initially thought you decide to go on a meaningless rant about the Clippers organization. Denver wasn't as good a team as you portray them to be and they face tougher comp then you want to admit. Claiming there was no excuse for them to lose to those teams is a false premise.

Of course you will hold on to it though with the sole purpose of using the false premise to show Melo is a failure.

This is a real slow quiet training camp. I was expecting more updates and excitement. When is the first preseason game?

You're the one trying to have it both ways

For the record against Utah Billups put up good numbers

When they lose it's because Melo didn't have Camby

When they win it's because Melo carried them on his back no Billups credit

The reason Billups is the true factor because

Every Denver team compares to the one who went to the WCF

Except every team prior to never went as far

You wanna go through playoff rosters yr by yr and see if this is true?

Oh wait I can guess what one of your retorts will be

You'll look at the opponent and say stuff like

Well Melo ran into the Spurs or Lakers yada yada juggernauts

Go look at how Melo performed in 2007-2008 against the Lakers

Go look at how Melo performed in 2008-2009 against the Lakers

You can't be high volume and have numbers 40 or sub 40

Good grief he attempted 21fga/gm across 2 series and shot 36/25 and 40/25

The Grizzlies a few yrs back they erased the Spurs

Yes Ginobli wasn't as healthy but the Grizzlies weren't proven

Why were they able to do so

Because they have a balanced team

Clippers came back and erased Grizzlies following yr

With Nick Young playing huge X factor that series

Same token 3yrs later the same Spurs much much older

Went to back-to-back Finals, largely because of a role player and not a Superstar

Isn't this the crux of the argument?

Melo is being paid to be a difference maker

Not a player to fall into the mix of role players

He's also being sold as DA MAN

Give Melo a running mate like Iverson[go look at his numbers they were nasty]

Melo flopped even when he had someone to run with

lol he played with Iverson and Camby unified and still flopped

All I've ever heard anyone say is how much of an impact Billup's leadership and skills provided the team. I've never read anyone say how Melo carried the WCF team on its back giving Billups no credit. I think you made that up right now to try to justify yourself.

With Billups Denver was a more complete balanced team which is why they had more success. Billups brought a leader, high IQ floor general and big shots which was what Denver & Melo needed. They even faced a weaker team then normal in the Hornets to get that first round bug out the way.

Lakers were the #1 team in the West both yrs and went to the finals both yrs. They crushed SA 4-1 in the WCF and only lost 3 games in in the Western conference playoffs. Then won the finals as the best team in the NBA the next 2 yrs. Melo shooting poorly is only one variable you try to make it as if its the reason.

My argument is based on what it takes to be a championship contender and win championships, not to prove Melo IS DA MAN. I accept your criticism of Melo's game, but it goes hand in hand. Speaking specifically on Melo. When on his game he can be the most dominant scorer in the NBA(with Kobe getting older). Which holds value and is probably why he gets max contracts. Hopefully the Triangle presents him the easy looks to allow him to be so, efficiently. Denver was never a complete enough basketball team to win a championship and faced more complete basketball teams then themselves which is why they lost no matter if Melo shot poorly or very well. They came together one yr as a more complete basketball team when they acquired Billups and made a run to the WCF. Probably lacking an upgrade at PF/C from pushing them over the top. For some reason its more important for you and other anit-Melo posters to establish that Billups was greater then Melo and made the team win. Or when Knicks were winning 54 games that Kidd was the reason. Does it really matter? Asking for Melo to play alongside of a Billups, and an impact post player like say a P.Gasol, with complimentary role players around them. Making Melo uncoverable thus looking like the teams best player is no less then what majority of championship teams have had to work with with 3-4 high level players consistently make you pay. No less then what KG had to work with along side of Rondo, Allen & Pierce. Or Kobe along side of Gasol, Odom, Bynum/Artest.

Dude give it up

Maybe not in this exact exchange

But yes it's been stated over and over

Denver was nothing before Melo got

There but when he arrived he carried them

To the playoffs every year

Giving all credit to him

No credit to Karl, very little if any credit to Billups or any other player

I don't care what the Lakers did those season's

I care how Melo performed as an individual player

Playoff series after playoff series

His numbers were terrible several postseasons and you can't argue facts

You're discussing what it takes to win chip(s)

I'm discussing why Melo has been a failure up to this point

Other than this I've never seen how people

Can try with all their might

Twist actual words from

A player's mouth and the statistical failures

My response was towards Billups not receiving any credit which is false just like the many claims that you make. I also already addressed this way early in our back in forth & when dk7th chimed in about how its false to say Melo carried a bunch of scrubs to the playoffs. You have been looking to lump me in with other people you have argued with which has been a problem throughout our whole back and forth. You are attaching Melo shooting poorly as the reason why Denver wasn't able to defeat better teams then themselves.

The 22.5-10 he produced vs the Lakers was terrible because he he had a poor FG%? Or the 28-5-4-1 and 12ft attempts per game the next yr vs the Lakers was terrible because he had a poor FG% though his TS was 54% surprisingly?

I don't get into the whole players being failures or not as there are way to many dynamics that go into success or failure. There will always be a ton of factors that help create winners or failures.

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

Yes

They added Melo & Miller in 2003-2004

They added K-Mart and Karl in 2004-2005

They added J.R. Smith and Iverson in 2006-2007

They added Billups in 2008-2009

Point is you can't attribute all Denver success

Post 2002-2003 at the feet of Holy Melo

Which was also my earlier point, he didn't

Play his career in Denver with a team of scrubs

He's played with some really good players

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

Yes

They added Melo & Miller in 2003-2004

They added K-Mart and Karl in 2004-2005

They added J.R. Smith and Iverson in 2006-2007

They added Billups in 2008-2009

Point is you can't attribute all Denver success

Post 2002-2003 at the feet of Holy Melo

Which was also my earlier point, he didn't

Play his career in Denver with a team of scrubs

He's played with some really good players

I think the point is they didnt add Kmart melo's rookie year when the team won 26 more games. I think that was why you were corrected.

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

Yes

They added Melo & Miller in 2003-2004

They added K-Mart and Karl in 2004-2005

They added J.R. Smith and Iverson in 2006-2007

They added Billups in 2008-2009

Point is you can't attribute all Denver success

Post 2002-2003 at the feet of Holy Melo

Which was also my earlier point, he didn't

Play his career in Denver with a team of scrubs

He's played with some really good players

I think the point is they didnt add Kmart melo's rookie year when the team won 26 more games. I think that was why you were corrected.

The overall meat and potatoes of this

Discussion is not about his rookie season

You tried to take it there, but it's not

Yeah I had the 1st yr glass half full, it happens

If I could give you a cookie I would

Because you deserve it

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

Yes

They added Melo & Miller in 2003-2004

They added K-Mart and Karl in 2004-2005

They added J.R. Smith and Iverson in 2006-2007

They added Billups in 2008-2009

Point is you can't attribute all Denver success

Post 2002-2003 at the feet of Holy Melo

Which was also my earlier point, he didn't

Play his career in Denver with a team of scrubs

He's played with some really good players

I think the point is they didnt add Kmart melo's rookie year when the team won 26 more games. I think that was why you were corrected.

The overall meat and potatoes of this

Discussion is not about his rookie season

You tried to take it there, but it's not

Yeah I had the 1st yr glass half full, it happens

If I could give you a cookie I would

Because you deserve it

TeamBall wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

Yes

They added Melo & Miller in 2003-2004

They added K-Mart and Karl in 2004-2005

They added J.R. Smith and Iverson in 2006-2007

They added Billups in 2008-2009

Point is you can't attribute all Denver success

Post 2002-2003 at the feet of Holy Melo

Which was also my earlier point, he didn't

Play his career in Denver with a team of scrubs

He's played with some really good players

I think the point is they didnt add Kmart melo's rookie year when the team won 26 more games. I think that was why you were corrected.

The overall meat and potatoes of this

Discussion is not about his rookie season

You tried to take it there, but it's not

Yeah I had the 1st yr glass half full, it happens

If I could give you a cookie I would

Because you deserve it

You know, when you decide to say that after you were proven wrong, it doesn't look too good.

I refuted the notion to mreinman

Comment of Melo playing with scrubs

While in Denver in particular on the 2008-2009 team

Which turned into Melo was responsible for

Denver's success and he wasn't a failure

Crush finally came in late stating Melo

Was a 26gm difference 1st yr, once again trying to tie all success to Melo

He should have noted Miller was added, he didn't

I did but added K-Mart, was wrong admitted I was

Only off a yr, which falls in line with what

Turned the Nuggets around to a bottom

Level to mid peak success team

I'll gladly accept being wrong and off a yr

The proof is in the thread

F500ONE wrote:I refuted the notion to mreinman

Comment of Melo playing with scrubs

While in Denver in particular on the 2008-2009 team

Which turned into Melo was responsible for

Denver's success and he wasn't a failure

Crush finally came in late stating Melo

Was a 26gm difference 1st yr, once again trying to tie all success to Melo

He should have noted Miller was added, he didn't

I did but added K-Mart, was wrong admitted I was

Only off a yr, which falls in line with what

Turned the Nuggets around to a bottom

Level to mid peak success team

I'll gladly accept being wrong and off a yr

The proof is in the thread

TeamBall wrote:

F500ONE wrote:I refuted the notion to mreinman

Comment of Melo playing with scrubs

While in Denver in particular on the 2008-2009 team

Which turned into Melo was responsible for

Denver's success and he wasn't a failure

Crush finally came in late stating Melo

Was a 26gm difference 1st yr, once again trying to tie all success to Melo

He should have noted Miller was added, he didn't

I did but added K-Mart, was wrong admitted I was

Only off a yr, which falls in line with what

Turned the Nuggets around to a bottom

Level to mid peak success team

I'll gladly accept being wrong and off a yr

The proof is in the thread

Do you think Melo had nothing to do with a 26 game improvement? I'm also not going to tie all success to him but I'd bet that he played a large enough role where I could see someone giving him that much credit.

Sure he deserves some

As does Miller

As does Billups in 2008-2009

As does Kidd 2012-2013

As does Karl

As it appears the successes of Melo

May be tied more so to the point guard and coaching

But in failure, he's also culpable

Maybe this will be a season of success

Not sure if Calderon and Fisher equal the above

But they have a shot

F500ONE wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

F500ONE wrote:I refuted the notion to mreinman

Comment of Melo playing with scrubs

While in Denver in particular on the 2008-2009 team

Which turned into Melo was responsible for

Denver's success and he wasn't a failure

Crush finally came in late stating Melo

Was a 26gm difference 1st yr, once again trying to tie all success to Melo

He should have noted Miller was added, he didn't

I did but added K-Mart, was wrong admitted I was

Only off a yr, which falls in line with what

Turned the Nuggets around to a bottom

Level to mid peak success team

I'll gladly accept being wrong and off a yr

The proof is in the thread

Do you think Melo had nothing to do with a 26 game improvement? I'm also not going to tie all success to him but I'd bet that he played a large enough role where I could see someone giving him that much credit.

Sure he deserves some

As does Miller

As does Billups in 2008-2009

As does Kidd 2012-2013

As does Karl

As it appears the successes of Melo

May be tied more so to the point guard and coaching

But in failure, he's also culpable

Maybe this will be a season of success

Not sure if Calderon and Fisher equal the above

But they have a shot

F500ONE wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

Yes

They added Melo & Miller in 2003-2004

They added K-Mart and Karl in 2004-2005

They added J.R. Smith and Iverson in 2006-2007

They added Billups in 2008-2009

Point is you can't attribute all Denver success

Post 2002-2003 at the feet of Holy Melo

Which was also my earlier point, he didn't

Play his career in Denver with a team of scrubs

He's played with some really good players

I think the point is they didnt add Kmart melo's rookie year when the team won 26 more games. I think that was why you were corrected.

The overall meat and potatoes of this

Discussion is not about his rookie season

You tried to take it there, but it's not

Yeah I had the 1st yr glass half full, it happens

If I could give you a cookie I would

Because you deserve it

You know, when you decide to say that after you were proven wrong, it doesn't look too good.

I refuted the notion to mreinman

Comment of Melo playing with scrubs

While in Denver in particular on the 2008-2009 team

Which turned into Melo was responsible for

Denver's success and he wasn't a failure

Crush finally came in late stating Melo

Was a 26gm difference 1st yr, once again trying to tie all success to Melo

He should have noted Miller was added, he didn't

I did but added K-Mart, was wrong admitted I was

Only off a yr, which falls in line with what

Turned the Nuggets around to a bottom

Level to mid peak success team

I'll gladly accept being wrong and off a yr

The proof is in the thread

I said that they were mostly scrub players and they were. Please be careful not to confuse my comments.

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

Yes

They added Melo & Miller in 2003-2004

They added K-Mart and Karl in 2004-2005

They added J.R. Smith and Iverson in 2006-2007

They added Billups in 2008-2009

Point is you can't attribute all Denver success

Post 2002-2003 at the feet of Holy Melo

Which was also my earlier point, he didn't

Play his career in Denver with a team of scrubs

He's played with some really good players

I think the point is they didnt add Kmart melo's rookie year when the team won 26 more games. I think that was why you were corrected.

The overall meat and potatoes of this

Discussion is not about his rookie season

You tried to take it there, but it's not

Yeah I had the 1st yr glass half full, it happens

If I could give you a cookie I would

Because you deserve it

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

Yes

They added Melo & Miller in 2003-2004

They added K-Mart and Karl in 2004-2005

They added J.R. Smith and Iverson in 2006-2007

They added Billups in 2008-2009

Point is you can't attribute all Denver success

Post 2002-2003 at the feet of Holy Melo

Which was also my earlier point, he didn't

Play his career in Denver with a team of scrubs

He's played with some really good players

I think the point is they didnt add Kmart melo's rookie year when the team won 26 more games. I think that was why you were corrected.

The overall meat and potatoes of this

Discussion is not about his rookie season

You tried to take it there, but it's not

Yeah I had the 1st yr glass half full, it happens

If I could give you a cookie I would

Because you deserve it

You know, when you decide to say that after you were proven wrong, it doesn't look too good.

I refuted the notion to mreinman

Comment of Melo playing with scrubs

While in Denver in particular on the 2008-2009 team

Which turned into Melo was responsible for

Denver's success and he wasn't a failure

Crush finally came in late stating Melo

Was a 26gm difference 1st yr, once again trying to tie all success to Melo

He should have noted Miller was added, he didn't

I did but added K-Mart, was wrong admitted I was

Only off a yr, which falls in line with what

Turned the Nuggets around to a bottom

Level to mid peak success team

I'll gladly accept being wrong and off a yr

The proof is in the thread

I said that they were mostly scrub players and they were. Please be careful not to confuse my comments.

Well let's look at the numbers during the Lakers series

Scrub Players

Kleiza 50%fg[highly efficient right]
and 47%fg(3pt) [I'm sure you enjoy this efg-TS% 2s and 3s right]

Smith 39%fg[scrubbish]
and 30%fg(3pt)[scrubbish]

Chris Anderson 54%fg[highly efficient even if low volume]

Dahntay Jones 38%fg[scrubbish]
and 0%fg(3pt)[okay not good very scrubbish]

Anthony Carter 33%fg[scrubbish but very low volume]
and 33%fg(3pt)[scrubbish ditto]

2 of 5 delivered

These were the same players he played with

Regular season helping win 54gms

And who helped get them to the WCF

Unfortunately Anthony's didn't deliver

Playoffs 40.7%fg 25%fg(3pt)[scrubbish]

Regular season 44%fg 37%fg(3pt)[respectable the 37%fg(3pt) highly efficient right]

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

Yes

They added Melo & Miller in 2003-2004

They added K-Mart and Karl in 2004-2005

They added J.R. Smith and Iverson in 2006-2007

They added Billups in 2008-2009

Point is you can't attribute all Denver success

Post 2002-2003 at the feet of Holy Melo

Which was also my earlier point, he didn't

Play his career in Denver with a team of scrubs

He's played with some really good players

I think the point is they didnt add Kmart melo's rookie year when the team won 26 more games. I think that was why you were corrected.

The overall meat and potatoes of this

Discussion is not about his rookie season

You tried to take it there, but it's not

Yeah I had the 1st yr glass half full, it happens

If I could give you a cookie I would

Because you deserve it

You know, when you decide to say that after you were proven wrong, it doesn't look too good.

I refuted the notion to mreinman

Comment of Melo playing with scrubs

While in Denver in particular on the 2008-2009 team

Which turned into Melo was responsible for

Denver's success and he wasn't a failure

Crush finally came in late stating Melo

Was a 26gm difference 1st yr, once again trying to tie all success to Melo

He should have noted Miller was added, he didn't

I did but added K-Mart, was wrong admitted I was

Only off a yr, which falls in line with what

Turned the Nuggets around to a bottom

Level to mid peak success team

I'll gladly accept being wrong and off a yr

The proof is in the thread

I said that they were mostly scrub players and they were. Please be careful not to confuse my comments.

Well let's look at the numbers during the Lakers series

Scrub Players

Kleiza 50%fg[highly efficient right]
and 47%fg(3pt) [I'm sure you enjoy this efg-TS% 2s and 3s right]

Smith 39%fg[scrubbish]
and 30%fg(3pt)[scrubbish]

Chris Anderson 54%fg[highly efficient even if low volume]

Dahntay Jones 38%fg[scrubbish]
and 0%fg(3pt)[okay not good very scrubbish]

Anthony Carter 33%fg[scrubbish but very low volume]
and 33%fg(3pt)[scrubbish ditto]

2 of 5 delivered

These were the same players he played with

Regular season helping win 54gms

And who helped get them to the WCF

Unfortunately Anthony's didn't deliver

Playoffs 40.7%fg 25%fg(3pt)[scrubbish]

Regular season 44%fg 37%fg(3pt)[respectable the 37%fg(3pt) highly efficient right]

IMO what Denver was missing was one more player preferably out of the post who could productively and efficiently create for himself and others. Would have freed up everyone for easier shots.

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

Yes

They added Melo & Miller in 2003-2004

They added K-Mart and Karl in 2004-2005

They added J.R. Smith and Iverson in 2006-2007

They added Billups in 2008-2009

Point is you can't attribute all Denver success

Post 2002-2003 at the feet of Holy Melo

Which was also my earlier point, he didn't

Play his career in Denver with a team of scrubs

He's played with some really good players

I think the point is they didnt add Kmart melo's rookie year when the team won 26 more games. I think that was why you were corrected.

The overall meat and potatoes of this

Discussion is not about his rookie season

You tried to take it there, but it's not

Yeah I had the 1st yr glass half full, it happens

If I could give you a cookie I would

Because you deserve it

You know, when you decide to say that after you were proven wrong, it doesn't look too good.

I refuted the notion to mreinman

Comment of Melo playing with scrubs

While in Denver in particular on the 2008-2009 team

Which turned into Melo was responsible for

Denver's success and he wasn't a failure

Crush finally came in late stating Melo

Was a 26gm difference 1st yr, once again trying to tie all success to Melo

He should have noted Miller was added, he didn't

I did but added K-Mart, was wrong admitted I was

Only off a yr, which falls in line with what

Turned the Nuggets around to a bottom

Level to mid peak success team

I'll gladly accept being wrong and off a yr

The proof is in the thread

I said that they were mostly scrub players and they were. Please be careful not to confuse my comments.

Well let's look at the numbers during the Lakers series

Scrub Players

Kleiza 50%fg[highly efficient right]
and 47%fg(3pt) [I'm sure you enjoy this efg-TS% 2s and 3s right]

Smith 39%fg[scrubbish]
and 30%fg(3pt)[scrubbish]

Chris Anderson 54%fg[highly efficient even if low volume]

Dahntay Jones 38%fg[scrubbish]
and 0%fg(3pt)[okay not good very scrubbish]

Anthony Carter 33%fg[scrubbish but very low volume]
and 33%fg(3pt)[scrubbish ditto]

2 of 5 delivered

These were the same players he played with

Regular season helping win 54gms

And who helped get them to the WCF

Unfortunately Anthony's didn't deliver

Playoffs 40.7%fg 25%fg(3pt)[scrubbish]

Regular season 44%fg 37%fg(3pt)[respectable the 37%fg(3pt) highly efficient right]

Great!

Kobe had Shaq and Melo had Kleiza ... I would say that sounds about right.

Melo has been an underwhelming playoff performer for many years of his career and I have been very vocal about what I don't like about him but stop this crap about trying to make believe that those Denver teams were more than they were.

The only reason why they were a perennial playoff team was because of Melo - Not the KLEIZA'S.

Before Billups came around, his best teammate was Nene. That's not good.

And ... you talk about how he had Marcus Camby, DID YOU EVER TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK UP MR CAMBY'S PLAYOFF NUMBERS AS A NUGGET? Check it out. Heck, maybe that was all Melo's fault because all of his chucking hurt Camby's offensive groove.

Please tell me (outside of Billups) who were the good guards that Melo ran with in the playoffs, and please be ready to backup their numbers (AND PLEASE DON'T SAY ANDRE MILLER AND EXPECT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY).

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

Yes

They added Melo & Miller in 2003-2004

They added K-Mart and Karl in 2004-2005

They added J.R. Smith and Iverson in 2006-2007

They added Billups in 2008-2009

Point is you can't attribute all Denver success

Post 2002-2003 at the feet of Holy Melo

Which was also my earlier point, he didn't

Play his career in Denver with a team of scrubs

He's played with some really good players

I think the point is they didnt add Kmart melo's rookie year when the team won 26 more games. I think that was why you were corrected.

The overall meat and potatoes of this

Discussion is not about his rookie season

You tried to take it there, but it's not

Yeah I had the 1st yr glass half full, it happens

If I could give you a cookie I would

Because you deserve it

You know, when you decide to say that after you were proven wrong, it doesn't look too good.

I refuted the notion to mreinman

Comment of Melo playing with scrubs

While in Denver in particular on the 2008-2009 team

Which turned into Melo was responsible for

Denver's success and he wasn't a failure

Crush finally came in late stating Melo

Was a 26gm difference 1st yr, once again trying to tie all success to Melo

He should have noted Miller was added, he didn't

I did but added K-Mart, was wrong admitted I was

Only off a yr, which falls in line with what

Turned the Nuggets around to a bottom

Level to mid peak success team

I'll gladly accept being wrong and off a yr

The proof is in the thread

I said that they were mostly scrub players and they were. Please be careful not to confuse my comments.

Well let's look at the numbers during the Lakers series

Scrub Players

Kleiza 50%fg[highly efficient right]
and 47%fg(3pt) [I'm sure you enjoy this efg-TS% 2s and 3s right]

Smith 39%fg[scrubbish]
and 30%fg(3pt)[scrubbish]

Chris Anderson 54%fg[highly efficient even if low volume]

Dahntay Jones 38%fg[scrubbish]
and 0%fg(3pt)[okay not good very scrubbish]

Anthony Carter 33%fg[scrubbish but very low volume]
and 33%fg(3pt)[scrubbish ditto]

2 of 5 delivered

These were the same players he played with

Regular season helping win 54gms

And who helped get them to the WCF

Unfortunately Anthony's didn't deliver

Playoffs 40.7%fg 25%fg(3pt)[scrubbish]

Regular season 44%fg 37%fg(3pt)[respectable the 37%fg(3pt) highly efficient right]

Great!

Kobe had Shaq and Melo had Kleiza ... I would say that sounds about right.

Melo has been an underwhelming playoff performer for many years of his career and I have been very vocal about what I don't like about him but stop this crap about trying to make believe that those Denver teams were more than they were.

The only reason why they were a perennial playoff team was because of Melo - Not the KLEIZA'S.

Before Billups came around, his best teammate was Nene. That's not good.

And ... you talk about how he had Marcus Camby, DID YOU EVER TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK UP MR CAMBY'S PLAYOFF NUMBERS AS A NUGGET? Check it out. Heck, maybe that was all Melo's fault because all of his chucking hurt Camby's offensive groove.

Please tell me (outside of Billups) who were the good guards that Melo ran with in the playoffs, and please be ready to backup their numbers (AND PLEASE DON'T SAY ANDRE MILLER AND EXPECT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY).

Melo's best teammate was probably Iverson before Billups

But the war between them was who could run

Lines to the ball first to shoot

Camby followed the leader I guess

Great regular season numbers poor playoff numbers

At least Camby played defense

Kobe wasn't playing with Shaq

When he dismissed Melo on 2 occasions

He played with Pau and Odom

Along with a bunch of scrubs by your standards

Here's another thought Melo wasn't even good enough

To push series like 4-2 or 4-3 even when bounced early

Which is pathetic

Uptown wrote:With the exception of the Rockets, Nuggets were the only team to push that Lakers squad to a 6th game, including the Magic in the finals. Hard to following your posting style, but it seems as if you are claiming the Nuggs didn't push the Lakes to a game 6 which is false.

Nope I'm saying the majority

Of Melo's Playoff appearances

His series early exits end 4-0, 4-1

If you're going to get bounced early

Let's see more 4-2 or 4-3

Once again I could care less about

What other teams results are

As it only proves Melo and I guess

A few other players aren't difference makers

I wasn't reflecting exclusively on Lakers series last post

More so, Melo's entire postseason career

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

Yes

They added Melo & Miller in 2003-2004

They added K-Mart and Karl in 2004-2005

They added J.R. Smith and Iverson in 2006-2007

They added Billups in 2008-2009

Point is you can't attribute all Denver success

Post 2002-2003 at the feet of Holy Melo

Which was also my earlier point, he didn't

Play his career in Denver with a team of scrubs

He's played with some really good players

I think the point is they didnt add Kmart melo's rookie year when the team won 26 more games. I think that was why you were corrected.

The overall meat and potatoes of this

Discussion is not about his rookie season

You tried to take it there, but it's not

Yeah I had the 1st yr glass half full, it happens

If I could give you a cookie I would

Because you deserve it

You know, when you decide to say that after you were proven wrong, it doesn't look too good.

I refuted the notion to mreinman

Comment of Melo playing with scrubs

While in Denver in particular on the 2008-2009 team

Which turned into Melo was responsible for

Denver's success and he wasn't a failure

Crush finally came in late stating Melo

Was a 26gm difference 1st yr, once again trying to tie all success to Melo

He should have noted Miller was added, he didn't

I did but added K-Mart, was wrong admitted I was

Only off a yr, which falls in line with what

Turned the Nuggets around to a bottom

Level to mid peak success team

I'll gladly accept being wrong and off a yr

The proof is in the thread

I said that they were mostly scrub players and they were. Please be careful not to confuse my comments.

Well let's look at the numbers during the Lakers series

Scrub Players

Kleiza 50%fg[highly efficient right]
and 47%fg(3pt) [I'm sure you enjoy this efg-TS% 2s and 3s right]

Smith 39%fg[scrubbish]
and 30%fg(3pt)[scrubbish]

Chris Anderson 54%fg[highly efficient even if low volume]

Dahntay Jones 38%fg[scrubbish]
and 0%fg(3pt)[okay not good very scrubbish]

Anthony Carter 33%fg[scrubbish but very low volume]
and 33%fg(3pt)[scrubbish ditto]

2 of 5 delivered

These were the same players he played with

Regular season helping win 54gms

And who helped get them to the WCF

Unfortunately Anthony's didn't deliver

Playoffs 40.7%fg 25%fg(3pt)[scrubbish]

Regular season 44%fg 37%fg(3pt)[respectable the 37%fg(3pt) highly efficient right]

Great!

Kobe had Shaq and Melo had Kleiza ... I would say that sounds about right.

Melo has been an underwhelming playoff performer for many years of his career and I have been very vocal about what I don't like about him but stop this crap about trying to make believe that those Denver teams were more than they were.

The only reason why they were a perennial playoff team was because of Melo - Not the KLEIZA'S.

Before Billups came around, his best teammate was Nene. That's not good.

And ... you talk about how he had Marcus Camby, DID YOU EVER TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK UP MR CAMBY'S PLAYOFF NUMBERS AS A NUGGET? Check it out. Heck, maybe that was all Melo's fault because all of his chucking hurt Camby's offensive groove.

Please tell me (outside of Billups) who were the good guards that Melo ran with in the playoffs, and please be ready to backup their numbers (AND PLEASE DON'T SAY ANDRE MILLER AND EXPECT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY).

Melo's best teammate was probably Iverson before Billups

But the war between them was who could run

Lines to the ball first to shoot

Camby followed the leader I guess

Great regular season numbers poor playoff numbers

At least Camby played defense

Kobe wasn't playing with Shaq

When he dismissed Melo on 2 occasions

He played with Pau and Odom

Along with a bunch of scrubs by your standards

Here's another thought Melo wasn't even good enough

To push series like 4-2 or 4-3 even when bounced early

Which is pathetic

Iverson sucked and was a horrible pickup. One of the most inefficient players/volume players of all time

Camby ... "follow the leader"? Good answer

Did you look at Pau's numbers when he played for the lakers in those post seasons? Probably not ... followed the leaders? Are you that impressed with Kobe's playoff numbers? Ever think that Kobe won because of Shaq and Gasol and not vice versa?

Your "scrub" attempts missed the mark by a lot. Don't try to compare the laker teams to Denvers.

You are just throwing stuff out there because of your bias. Try to be balanced and/or honest, or do some more research. Who was Denver's Pau?

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Nuggets improved 26 games Melo's first year in Denver.

Pretty sure he wasnt the only addition

You're right they added K-Mart, Miller

Following yr were 17-24

Fired the coach and brought in Karl

Took off from there and the story ends there

They added Melo and Miller. Camby and Nene were already on the 17win team. Karl was hired the next season.

Yes

They added Melo & Miller in 2003-2004

They added K-Mart and Karl in 2004-2005

They added J.R. Smith and Iverson in 2006-2007

They added Billups in 2008-2009

Point is you can't attribute all Denver success

Post 2002-2003 at the feet of Holy Melo

Which was also my earlier point, he didn't

Play his career in Denver with a team of scrubs

He's played with some really good players

I think the point is they didnt add Kmart melo's rookie year when the team won 26 more games. I think that was why you were corrected.

The overall meat and potatoes of this

Discussion is not about his rookie season

You tried to take it there, but it's not

Yeah I had the 1st yr glass half full, it happens

If I could give you a cookie I would

Because you deserve it

You know, when you decide to say that after you were proven wrong, it doesn't look too good.

I refuted the notion to mreinman

Comment of Melo playing with scrubs

While in Denver in particular on the 2008-2009 team

Which turned into Melo was responsible for

Denver's success and he wasn't a failure

Crush finally came in late stating Melo

Was a 26gm difference 1st yr, once again trying to tie all success to Melo

He should have noted Miller was added, he didn't

I did but added K-Mart, was wrong admitted I was

Only off a yr, which falls in line with what

Turned the Nuggets around to a bottom

Level to mid peak success team

I'll gladly accept being wrong and off a yr

The proof is in the thread

I said that they were mostly scrub players and they were. Please be careful not to confuse my comments.

Well let's look at the numbers during the Lakers series

Scrub Players

Kleiza 50%fg[highly efficient right]
and 47%fg(3pt) [I'm sure you enjoy this efg-TS% 2s and 3s right]

Smith 39%fg[scrubbish]
and 30%fg(3pt)[scrubbish]

Chris Anderson 54%fg[highly efficient even if low volume]

Dahntay Jones 38%fg[scrubbish]
and 0%fg(3pt)[okay not good very scrubbish]

Anthony Carter 33%fg[scrubbish but very low volume]
and 33%fg(3pt)[scrubbish ditto]

2 of 5 delivered

These were the same players he played with

Regular season helping win 54gms

And who helped get them to the WCF

Unfortunately Anthony's didn't deliver

Playoffs 40.7%fg 25%fg(3pt)[scrubbish]

Regular season 44%fg 37%fg(3pt)[respectable the 37%fg(3pt) highly efficient right]

Great!

Kobe had Shaq and Melo had Kleiza ... I would say that sounds about right.

Melo has been an underwhelming playoff performer for many years of his career and I have been very vocal about what I don't like about him but stop this crap about trying to make believe that those Denver teams were more than they were.

The only reason why they were a perennial playoff team was because of Melo - Not the KLEIZA'S.

Before Billups came around, his best teammate was Nene. That's not good.

And ... you talk about how he had Marcus Camby, DID YOU EVER TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK UP MR CAMBY'S PLAYOFF NUMBERS AS A NUGGET? Check it out. Heck, maybe that was all Melo's fault because all of his chucking hurt Camby's offensive groove.

Please tell me (outside of Billups) who were the good guards that Melo ran with in the playoffs, and please be ready to backup their numbers (AND PLEASE DON'T SAY ANDRE MILLER AND EXPECT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY).

Melo's best teammate was probably Iverson before Billups

But the war between them was who could run

Lines to the ball first to shoot

Camby followed the leader I guess

Great regular season numbers poor playoff numbers

At least Camby played defense

Kobe wasn't playing with Shaq

When he dismissed Melo on 2 occasions

He played with Pau and Odom

Along with a bunch of scrubs by your standards

Here's another thought Melo wasn't even good enough

To push series like 4-2 or 4-3 even when bounced early

Which is pathetic

Iverson sucked and was a horrible pickup. One of the most inefficient players/volume players of all time

Camby ... "follow the leader"? Good answer

Did you look at Pau's numbers when he played for the lakers in those post seasons? Probably not ... followed the leaders? Are you that impressed with Kobe's playoff numbers? Ever think that Kobe won because of Shaq and Gasol and not vice versa?

Your "scrub" attempts missed the mark by a lot. Don't try to compare the laker teams to Denvers.

You are just throwing stuff out there because of your bias. Try to be balanced and/or honest, or do some more research. Who was Denver's Pau?

Jordan Farmar

Sasha Vuvu

Ronnie Turiaf

Luke Walton

Vladamir Rad

Shannon Brown

Were above scrub status

Give me a break

Those are scrub a dub dubs in a tub

Iverson was 45/35 regular seasons in Denver

Pretty much what Melo had been careerwise while there