nixluva wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:IMO Dolan got impatient. I think the move was to wait on CP3 and save the cap space for him. They went with the Billups Amnesty instead of STAT and grabbing Tyson. Just waiting and being patient and ready to pounce when the time was right but Dolan couldn't do that. In the end now we have to see what Phil can do with his shot at it. We're in a good position now. Just play this out and see what happens at the Trade deadline and this off season. In the meantime we get to evaluate the players we have and establish a new culture here.
Bingo!
And it was not just Dolan who got impatient and stupid. It was all the starphucking fans
The impatience started right
After we signed Amar'e
The Amare signing was the epitome of impatience!
The impatience started when Dolan took over
The Knicks were in a perfect position for a good GM to start over but not with Dolan being such a fool. I have some hope for the future with Phil in control and Dolan being hands off.
I always thought that when Stern forced Dolan to replace isiah, Dolan chose Walsh because he knew Walsh had a fondness for Isiah.
Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:IMO Dolan got impatient. I think the move was to wait on CP3 and save the cap space for him. They went with the Billups Amnesty instead of STAT and grabbing Tyson. Just waiting and being patient and ready to pounce when the time was right but Dolan couldn't do that. In the end now we have to see what Phil can do with his shot at it. We're in a good position now. Just play this out and see what happens at the Trade deadline and this off season. In the meantime we get to evaluate the players we have and establish a new culture here.
Bingo!
And it was not just Dolan who got impatient and stupid. It was all the starphucking fans
The impatience started right
After we signed Amar'e
The Amare signing was the epitome of impatience!
The impatience started when Dolan took over
it certainly was though everyone here loves because he made us relevant.
Signing Amare wasn't bad. What was bad was giving him 5 yrs 100mil. Should have offered him either 3yrs 60mil or 5yrs then at 65mil. Or if they were desperate to give him 5yrs 100mil with no insurance then a TO after yr 2-3 should have been included.
Even if we struck out on all free agents Walsh could have used the massive amount of cap space to restock assets to acquire one.
Zen master says: You must first accept help to be helped.
newyorknewyork wrote:Signing Amare wasn't bad. What was bad was giving him 5 yrs 100mil. Should have offered him either 3yrs 60mil or 5yrs then at 65mil. Or if they were desperate to give him 5yrs 100mil with no insurance then a TO after yr 2-3 should have been included. Even if we struck out on all free agents Walsh could have used the massive amount of cap space to restock assets to acquire one.
Phx offered 4yrs max, we had to offer 5
Because Amar'e was after the dinero
F500ONE wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Signing Amare wasn't bad. What was bad was giving him 5 yrs 100mil. Should have offered him either 3yrs 60mil or 5yrs then at 65mil. Or if they were desperate to give him 5yrs 100mil with no insurance then a TO after yr 2-3 should have been included. Even if we struck out on all free agents Walsh could have used the massive amount of cap space to restock assets to acquire one.
Phx offered 4yrs max, we had to offer 5
Because Amar'e was after the dinero
Phoenix offered 3 (@60) years not 4 (I think).
mreinman wrote:F500ONE wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Signing Amare wasn't bad. What was bad was giving him 5 yrs 100mil. Should have offered him either 3yrs 60mil or 5yrs then at 65mil. Or if they were desperate to give him 5yrs 100mil with no insurance then a TO after yr 2-3 should have been included. Even if we struck out on all free agents Walsh could have used the massive amount of cap space to restock assets to acquire one.
Phx offered 4yrs max, we had to offer 5
Because Amar'e was after the dinero
Phoenix offered 3 (@60) years not 4 (I think).
The guaranteed years was years 1,2 and 5...5 dependant on Amare meeting a certain minutesd criteria in 3 and 4. if he met the minutes 3, and 4 would be fully paid and year 5 was a thank you gift.
Stoudemire twice declined a five-year, $96.6 million offer before the Suns cut ties after years of passing on chances to either trade him or extend his contract. Suns Managing Partner Robert Sarver made Stoudemire a new offer of three guaranteed years with fourth and fifth years guaranteed if he played 2,200 minutes in the third and fourth seasons. That would require averaging 26.8 minutes over 82 games, but Stoudemire could toss out five games with the fewest minutes each season. He averaged 34.6 minutes last season.
Otherwise, the deal guaranteed 50 percent of the fourth-year salary and 25 percent in the fifth year. Stoudemire would not take a deal shorter than five years, but the Suns were hesitant due to his surgically repaired knees. He recently had MRI exams on the knees, which the Suns requested. The camps made at least 10 calls Thursday to discuss a deal for Stoudemire, who wanted to stay with Phoenix and had several confidants affirming that.
"It wasn't the right deal," his agent, Happy Walters, said. "There were too many caveats for us to be comfortable with it. Amar'e appreciated Robert's and (coach) Alvin's (Gentry) willingness to sit down with him. He'll be sad to leave his teammates and the city he loves, but it's time to move on."
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/art...
F500ONE wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:IMO Dolan got impatient. I think the move was to wait on CP3 and save the cap space for him. They went with the Billups Amnesty instead of STAT and grabbing Tyson. Just waiting and being patient and ready to pounce when the time was right but Dolan couldn't do that. In the end now we have to see what Phil can do with his shot at it. We're in a good position now. Just play this out and see what happens at the Trade deadline and this off season. In the meantime we get to evaluate the players we have and establish a new culture here.
Bingo!
And it was not just Dolan who got impatient and stupid. It was all the starphucking fans
The impatience started right
After we signed Amar'e
The Amare signing was the epitome of impatience!
The impatience started when Dolan took over
50/50
To not have signed anyone in 2010
Longterm maybe not so bad
Short Term, it would have been
One of the worse PR nightmares in some time
It would have proven everything prior was
All for naught and a hammer on New York
Being an attractive destination
Which is still debatable by and large
So you're basically saying it was the epitome of impatience!
newyorknewyork wrote:Signing Amare wasn't bad. What was bad was giving him 5 yrs 100mil. Should have offered him either 3yrs 60mil or 5yrs then at 65mil. Or if they were desperate to give him 5yrs 100mil with no insurance then a TO after yr 2-3 should have been included. Even if we struck out on all free agents Walsh could have used the massive amount of cap space to restock assets to acquire one.
I'd say something closer to a 4 month contract would have been appropriate!
Bonn1997 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Signing Amare wasn't bad. What was bad was giving him 5 yrs 100mil. Should have offered him either 3yrs 60mil or 5yrs then at 65mil. Or if they were desperate to give him 5yrs 100mil with no insurance then a TO after yr 2-3 should have been included. Even if we struck out on all free agents Walsh could have used the massive amount of cap space to restock assets to acquire one.
I'd say something closer to a 4 month contract would have been appropriate!
so only 4 months of relevance? That would not of gotten us Lebron. Oh wait ...
Our biggest issue was that we didn't have a very attractive team situation with no one already here and Walsh and Dolan didn't present a very appealing face for the organization. Imagine you're a young star and you go into a meeting with Walsh looking even more ancient and feeble due to his illness? Then you have Dolan's dumb ass chiming in and that pretty much sealed the deal. HELL NO!
At least now we have Phil, Fish and Melo already on board. If this season goes well it will only enhance our standing as a destination.
Signing Amare wasn't the problem. Signing Amare, playing him 40mpg and then wasting the amnesty provision on Chauncey Billups was the problem. And it amazes me to think that had we simply kept Corey Brewer, a sign and trade for Tyson Chandler could've been made, which would've left us the opportunity to keep Billups, add Chandler, JR Smith (via $3 million exception) and Jeremy Lin (off waivers), while retaining the option to amnesty Amare at a later date. Funny how things work.
Hey NardDogNation a couple days ago, I read on my phone, forgot which post why would we want to trade STAT to Philly instead of just letting his contract expire in the summer
Because it would save us a lot of money since we are repeat tax offenders, costing us 3x his contract 60m +
That is a lot of money, even for a Billionare
In my opinion, it comes down to at what price, it could be for 2020 or 2022 1st rounder and maybe a 2nd rounder max 2018 or later
IF Tim Hardaway JR's stock goes up, would that be enough to absorb STAT's contract, with our depth at SG, don't forget Tenacious next season or this year, *though unlikely I think since, we could signed him to a 3year deal next year*
Would 2 2nd rounders do it?
More importantly, as a fan, it would allow us to have a trade exemption of 23m +, from within one year of the date to use, which could be delayed since there likely will be a NBA lockout prior to the 2016/17 season
Though we would still need to asset's to chase true talent with some cooperation from the player we are targetting, doing what Kevin Love did to join Lebron and Irving in Cleveland
Simply by saying, I will resign with any other team and will opt out
Had CA said those words, we would have another team in the past couple years
Also that extra year in salary, he used to OPT out of his contract anyway, so it was pointless to trade for him
He still would have made more less money if he signed with NYK's in the off season, since the perecentages went lower with the CBA, especially for teams without bird rights
But it wasn't by much, if he finished the season, his salary would have went up, instead we gave up a lot of value with the trade and following the trade to build with a roster with too many holes
Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:IMO Dolan got impatient. I think the move was to wait on CP3 and save the cap space for him. They went with the Billups Amnesty instead of STAT and grabbing Tyson. Just waiting and being patient and ready to pounce when the time was right but Dolan couldn't do that. In the end now we have to see what Phil can do with his shot at it. We're in a good position now. Just play this out and see what happens at the Trade deadline and this off season. In the meantime we get to evaluate the players we have and establish a new culture here.
Bingo!
And it was not just Dolan who got impatient and stupid. It was all the starphucking fans
The impatience started right
After we signed Amar'e
The Amare signing was the epitome of impatience!
The impatience started when Dolan took over
50/50
To not have signed anyone in 2010
Longterm maybe not so bad
Short Term, it would have been
One of the worse PR nightmares in some time
It would have proven everything prior was
All for naught and a hammer on New York
Being an attractive destination
Which is still debatable by and large
So you're basically saying it was the epitome of impatience!
I'm saying they showed some patience for 2yrs
But probably needed to stick it out another yr or 2
We were about 50/50 on the side of patience
I would have been on the side to wait longer obviously
F500ONE wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:IMO Dolan got impatient. I think the move was to wait on CP3 and save the cap space for him. They went with the Billups Amnesty instead of STAT and grabbing Tyson. Just waiting and being patient and ready to pounce when the time was right but Dolan couldn't do that. In the end now we have to see what Phil can do with his shot at it. We're in a good position now. Just play this out and see what happens at the Trade deadline and this off season. In the meantime we get to evaluate the players we have and establish a new culture here.
Bingo!
And it was not just Dolan who got impatient and stupid. It was all the starphucking fans
The impatience started right
After we signed Amar'e
The Amare signing was the epitome of impatience!
The impatience started when Dolan took over
50/50
To not have signed anyone in 2010
Longterm maybe not so bad
Short Term, it would have been
One of the worse PR nightmares in some time
It would have proven everything prior was
All for naught and a hammer on New York
Being an attractive destination
Which is still debatable by and large
So you're basically saying it was the epitome of impatience!
I'm saying they showed some patience for 2yrs
But probably needed to stick it out another yr or 2
We were about 50/50 on the side of patience
I would have been on the side to wait longer obviously
All impatient people have brief moments of patience. This is like the obese person saying "I diet between meals"
Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:F500ONE wrote:mreinman wrote:nixluva wrote:IMO Dolan got impatient. I think the move was to wait on CP3 and save the cap space for him. They went with the Billups Amnesty instead of STAT and grabbing Tyson. Just waiting and being patient and ready to pounce when the time was right but Dolan couldn't do that. In the end now we have to see what Phil can do with his shot at it. We're in a good position now. Just play this out and see what happens at the Trade deadline and this off season. In the meantime we get to evaluate the players we have and establish a new culture here.
Bingo!
And it was not just Dolan who got impatient and stupid. It was all the starphucking fans
The impatience started right
After we signed Amar'e
The Amare signing was the epitome of impatience!
The impatience started when Dolan took over
50/50
To not have signed anyone in 2010
Longterm maybe not so bad
Short Term, it would have been
One of the worse PR nightmares in some time
It would have proven everything prior was
All for naught and a hammer on New York
Being an attractive destination
Which is still debatable by and large
So you're basically saying it was the epitome of impatience!
I'm saying they showed some patience for 2yrs
But probably needed to stick it out another yr or 2
We were about 50/50 on the side of patience
I would have been on the side to wait longer obviously
All impatient people have brief moments of patience. This is like the obese person saying "I diet between meals"
Agreed
For the sake of argument humor me here
Since we're discussing patience
Greg Monroe's named gets thrown around a lot these days
He's an okay player I think we all know
His talents[offensively nor defensively] do not supersede players at his position
In many cases to put us in contention, they're well below those of his ilk
So should Phil sign him to a Max deal, if asked for
Considering cap implications going forward
Or would this not be a sign of impatience
We did have the cap space and then some to sign Amar'e
His contract did not take away immediate flexibility
Nor long term if good decisions were made thereafter
Let's keep it real Amar'e isn't worth Max
Nor would someone like Greg be
Do you truly see Greg Monroe as a difference maker
But can Phil pass on him if he's one of choice few out there
Does Phil have the time in the same vein as Walsh 2yrs into a plan
^Good question. Thats why I don't see us winning a championship this decade until we truly rebuild from ground up. Unfortunately everyone wants a quick fix fans, media and the knicks
gunsnewing wrote:^Good question. Thats why I don't see us winning a championship this decade until we truly rebuild from ground up. Unfortunately everyone wants a quick fix fans, media and the knicks
I'm serious, like does Phil have to sign someone next yr
Because he gave Melo 5yrs $125mil taking a paycut in yr 2
Since the $1.4mil huge savings are there Phil must act immediately?
He has to get Melo some help immediately?
So how will Phil be operating any different than Walsh
I think the key with Phil
Can he get players to come here on good deals
Any GM can overpay Greg Monroe talent
We all understand this correct
Yup
It's a shame we are going to waste away the Phil Years just like we did Larry Brown & Donnie Walsh because its New York, James Dolan and impatience from fans and media
I wish Phil came with the mindset of being more fiscally responsible. I thought he did until he buckled under the pressure from Dolan and New York in general and gave Melo $124 million
It is what it is. Same shit different day
gunsnewing wrote:YupIt's a shame we are going to waste away the Phil Years just like we did Larry Brown & Donnie Walsh because its New York, James Dolan and impatience from fans and media
I wish Phil came with the mindset of being more fiscally responsible. I thought he did until he buckled under the pressure from Dolan and New York in general and gave Melo $124 million
It is what it is. Same shit different day
Im a melo fan but my biggest issue with him is that if he really wants help then he should have taken a lot less money. I mean say he signed for 100 million instead of 124 million it would still be a lot of money for him and the knicks would have flexibility in the coming years
