Knicks · Wake me up when we get Melo some help… (page 6)

gunsnewing wrote:Yup

It's a shame we are going to waste away the Phil Years just like we did Larry Brown & Donnie Walsh because its New York, James Dolan and impatience from fans and media

I wish Phil came with the mindset of being more fiscally responsible. I thought he did until he buckled under the pressure from Dolan and New York in general and gave Melo $124 million

It is what it is. Same shit different day

Im a melo fan but my biggest issue with him is that if he really wants help then he should have taken a lot less money. I mean say he signed for 100 million instead of 124 million it would still be a lot of money for him and the knicks would have flexibility in the coming years

StarksEwing1 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Yup

It's a shame we are going to waste away the Phil Years just like we did Larry Brown & Donnie Walsh because its New York, James Dolan and impatience from fans and media

I wish Phil came with the mindset of being more fiscally responsible. I thought he did until he buckled under the pressure from Dolan and New York in general and gave Melo $124 million

It is what it is. Same shit different day

Im a melo fan but my biggest issue with him is that if he really wants help then he should have taken a lot less money. I mean say he signed for 100 million instead of 124 million it would still be a lot of money for him and the knicks would have flexibility in the coming years

Melo should've taken less but the Knicks also need to be resourceful. F5 has a great point. Throwing max money to guys like Monroe is not the answer.

Its nice to have cap space and flexibity so you can either add a sure fire big money free agent star or multiple good players to fill holes.

1. Right now we dont have the cap space for a star
2. There are no stars out there who are available
3. Are we banking on Durant or Anthony Davis?
4. Can't afford them thanks to Melo
5. Do you max Greg Monroe or another player not worth the max?
6. Is Marc Gasol or Milsap enough to beat Cleveland and the West?

The salary cap will play a big part. That's why Lebron signed a 2 year, so that he can maximize his salary under the new cap.

Melo's salary - though I hated it, maybe won't be so bad with the new flexibility.

I hope. I want David West, Milsap, Dragic, Lowry etc ... players at mid max salaries. No Aldridge MAX type bonehead moves.

mreinman wrote:The salary cap will play a big part. That's why Lebron signed a 2 year, so that he can maximize his salary under the new cap.

Melo's salary - though I hated it, maybe won't be so bad with the new flexibility.

I hope. I want David West, Milsap, Dragic, Lowry etc ... players at mid max salaries. No Aldridge MAX type bonehead moves.

Probably don't have to worry about L.A.

The NBA's new television deal won't have an impact on whether LaMarcus Aldridge signs a long-term deal with the Portland Trail Blazers, according to a source.

Aldridge's annual salary will pencil in at 30 percent of the Blazers' cap when he signs his deal, no matter how much it is. Afterward, he would receive 7.5 percent increases each year for the length of his deal.

Aldridge said in July that he planned on signing a max contract with the Blazers next summer.

I'm not saying Phil should sit on his hands next summer

I'm saying you can't feel forced to make an aggressive move

For a player like Greg Monroe

Can Phil sweet talk him into a frugal deal

Remains to be seen and it will be tough

Greg already passed on $60mil from Detroit

There will plenty of sharks circling the waters this summer

I think it's gonna take a lot of creativity on Phil's part

Haven't seen the evidence yet he's a quick thinking mind

And we have be a surprise this yr like in 2012-2013

The Triangle has to work producing wins

And what could be assumed league leading statistical numbers

So players will be attracted to play here

It's not about signing big money guys as much as getting guys that fit what the team needs to win. It's more about proper team building and chemistry than being able to land the bug name FA. I think Phil knows this and is operating that way. He's building a team according to his principles of what a winning team needs. That may mean a big dollar FA or not. It's solely based on what this team needs to get to an elite level.

So far it's been adding selfless role players. I think he needs a Scotty Pippen/Lamar Odom type more than anything.

nixluva wrote:

So far it's been adding selfless role players. I think he needs a Scotty Pippen/Lamar Odom type more than anything.

But Melo is the SF

He should be that guy but all he does is score

gunsnewing wrote:

nixluva wrote:

So far it's been adding selfless role players. I think he needs a Scotty Pippen/Lamar Odom type more than anything.

But Melo is the SF

He should be that guy but all he does is score

Are those types free agents available this summer

F500ONE wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

nixluva wrote:

So far it's been adding selfless role players. I think he needs a Scotty Pippen/Lamar Odom type more than anything.

But Melo is the SF

He should be that guy but all he does is score

Are those types free agents available this summer

I get the points being made but there are very few players with the passing and ball handling skills and mentality to play that role. Melo is the scorer and thus we don't need another one we need the ball moving well rounded sidekick.

I do agree that Melo should and will be a more willing passer. I think that is the main thrust of what Fish and Phil are asking him to do but that doesn't mean we don't still need another guy like that. This is why Phil likes Orlando Sanchez!!!

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO Dolan got impatient. I think the move was to wait on CP3 and save the cap space for him. They went with the Billups Amnesty instead of STAT and grabbing Tyson. Just waiting and being patient and ready to pounce when the time was right but Dolan couldn't do that.

In the end now we have to see what Phil can do with his shot at it. We're in a good position now. Just play this out and see what happens at the Trade deadline and this off season. In the meantime we get to evaluate the players we have and establish a new culture here.

Bingo!

And it was not just Dolan who got impatient and stupid. It was all the starphucking fans

The impatience started right

After we signed Amar'e

The Amare signing was the epitome of impatience!
The impatience started when Dolan took over

50/50

To not have signed anyone in 2010

Longterm maybe not so bad

Short Term, it would have been

One of the worse PR nightmares in some time

It would have proven everything prior was

All for naught and a hammer on New York

Being an attractive destination

Which is still debatable by and large

So you're basically saying it was the epitome of impatience!

I'm saying they showed some patience for 2yrs

But probably needed to stick it out another yr or 2

We were about 50/50 on the side of patience

I would have been on the side to wait longer obviously

All impatient people have brief moments of patience. This is like the obese person saying "I diet between meals"

Agreed

For the sake of argument humor me here

Since we're discussing patience

Greg Monroe's named gets thrown around a lot these days

He's an okay player I think we all know

His talents[offensively nor defensively] do not supersede players at his position

In many cases to put us in contention, they're well below those of his ilk

So should Phil sign him to a Max deal, if asked for

Considering cap implications going forward

Or would this not be a sign of impatience

We did have the cap space and then some to sign Amar'e

His contract did not take away immediate flexibility

Nor long term if good decisions were made thereafter

Let's keep it real Amar'e isn't worth Max

Nor would someone like Greg be

Do you truly see Greg Monroe as a difference maker

But can Phil pass on him if he's one of choice few out there

Does Phil have the time in the same vein as Walsh 2yrs into a plan

Max for Monroe? No way. I'm not even sure he's worth half the max

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

nixluva wrote:

So far it's been adding selfless role players. I think he needs a Scotty Pippen/Lamar Odom type more than anything.

But Melo is the SF

He should be that guy but all he does is score

Are those types free agents available this summer

I get the points being made but there are very few players with the passing and ball handling skills and mentality to play that role. Melo is the scorer and thus we don't need another one we need the ball moving well rounded sidekick.

I do agree that Melo should and will be a more willing passer. I think that is the main thrust of what Fish and Phil are asking him to do but that doesn't mean we don't still need another guy like that. This is why Phil likes Orlando Sanchez!!!

Andre Iguodala would've been perfect for this team to fill that role. With him unavailable, I'd take a hard look at Evan Turner.

RonRon wrote:Hey NardDogNation a couple days ago, I read on my phone, forgot which post why would we want to trade STAT to Philly instead of just letting his contract expire in the summer

Because it would save us a lot of money since we are repeat tax offenders, costing us 3x his contract 60m +
That is a lot of money, even for a Billionare

In my opinion, it comes down to at what price, it could be for 2020 or 2022 1st rounder and maybe a 2nd rounder max 2018 or later
IF Tim Hardaway JR's stock goes up, would that be enough to absorb STAT's contract, with our depth at SG, don't forget Tenacious next season or this year, *though unlikely I think since, we could signed him to a 3year deal next year*
Would 2 2nd rounders do it?

More importantly, as a fan, it would allow us to have a trade exemption of 23m +, from within one year of the date to use, which could be delayed since there likely will be a NBA lockout prior to the 2016/17 season
Though we would still need to asset's to chase true talent with some cooperation from the player we are targetting, doing what Kevin Love did to join Lebron and Irving in Cleveland
Simply by saying, I will resign with any other team and will opt out

Had CA said those words, we would have another team in the past couple years
Also that extra year in salary, he used to OPT out of his contract anyway, so it was pointless to trade for him
He still would have made more less money if he signed with NYK's in the off season, since the perecentages went lower with the CBA, especially for teams without bird rights
But it wasn't by much, if he finished the season, his salary would have went up, instead we gave up a lot of value with the trade and following the trade to build with a roster with too many holes

That's the thing, the Knicks would have to waive Amare's $23 million trade exception if they planned on using cap space. Its another dumb rule in the new CBA. So aside from saving Jim Dolan some money, I don't see the purpose of the move with us having cap space in the offseason. Losing Hardaway isn't worth it to me unless we get some actual value in return.

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO Dolan got impatient. I think the move was to wait on CP3 and save the cap space for him. They went with the Billups Amnesty instead of STAT and grabbing Tyson. Just waiting and being patient and ready to pounce when the time was right but Dolan couldn't do that.

In the end now we have to see what Phil can do with his shot at it. We're in a good position now. Just play this out and see what happens at the Trade deadline and this off season. In the meantime we get to evaluate the players we have and establish a new culture here.

Bingo!

And it was not just Dolan who got impatient and stupid. It was all the starphucking fans

The impatience started right

After we signed Amar'e

The Amare signing was the epitome of impatience!
The impatience started when Dolan took over

50/50

To not have signed anyone in 2010

Longterm maybe not so bad

Short Term, it would have been

One of the worse PR nightmares in some time

It would have proven everything prior was

All for naught and a hammer on New York

Being an attractive destination

Which is still debatable by and large

So you're basically saying it was the epitome of impatience!

I'm saying they showed some patience for 2yrs

But probably needed to stick it out another yr or 2

We were about 50/50 on the side of patience

I would have been on the side to wait longer obviously

All impatient people have brief moments of patience. This is like the obese person saying "I diet between meals"

Agreed

For the sake of argument humor me here

Since we're discussing patience

Greg Monroe's named gets thrown around a lot these days

He's an okay player I think we all know

His talents[offensively nor defensively] do not supersede players at his position

In many cases to put us in contention, they're well below those of his ilk

So should Phil sign him to a Max deal, if asked for

Considering cap implications going forward

Or would this not be a sign of impatience

We did have the cap space and then some to sign Amar'e

His contract did not take away immediate flexibility

Nor long term if good decisions were made thereafter

Let's keep it real Amar'e isn't worth Max

Nor would someone like Greg be

Do you truly see Greg Monroe as a difference maker

But can Phil pass on him if he's one of choice few out there

Does Phil have the time in the same vein as Walsh 2yrs into a plan

Max for Monroe? No way. I'm not even sure he's worth half the max

Monroe isn't worth max, but his skills are perfect for the triangle. He is only 24yrs old and has a lot of upside in him.

I don't know if he really wanted max or if he just wants out of Detroit and new they would match offers that were less then max.

I made a thread a while back on how the Knicks could stretch out there cap flexibility for 3yrs. If they spent only 10mil next summer, they would have Jr & Shump freeing up like 8mil I think to go along with the remaining money spilled over. If they did the same thing spending around 8mil, they would have Calderon coming off the books freeing up another 7mil to go along with the money spilled over and the new salary cap. Question is who could they land at those prices.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:IMO Dolan got impatient. I think the move was to wait on CP3 and save the cap space for him. They went with the Billups Amnesty instead of STAT and grabbing Tyson. Just waiting and being patient and ready to pounce when the time was right but Dolan couldn't do that.

In the end now we have to see what Phil can do with his shot at it. We're in a good position now. Just play this out and see what happens at the Trade deadline and this off season. In the meantime we get to evaluate the players we have and establish a new culture here.

Bingo!

And it was not just Dolan who got impatient and stupid. It was all the starphucking fans

The impatience started right

After we signed Amar'e

The Amare signing was the epitome of impatience!
The impatience started when Dolan took over

50/50

To not have signed anyone in 2010

Longterm maybe not so bad

Short Term, it would have been

One of the worse PR nightmares in some time

It would have proven everything prior was

All for naught and a hammer on New York

Being an attractive destination

Which is still debatable by and large

So you're basically saying it was the epitome of impatience!

I'm saying they showed some patience for 2yrs

But probably needed to stick it out another yr or 2

We were about 50/50 on the side of patience

I would have been on the side to wait longer obviously

All impatient people have brief moments of patience. This is like the obese person saying "I diet between meals"

Agreed

For the sake of argument humor me here

Since we're discussing patience

Greg Monroe's named gets thrown around a lot these days

He's an okay player I think we all know

His talents[offensively nor defensively] do not supersede players at his position

In many cases to put us in contention, they're well below those of his ilk

So should Phil sign him to a Max deal, if asked for

Considering cap implications going forward

Or would this not be a sign of impatience

We did have the cap space and then some to sign Amar'e

His contract did not take away immediate flexibility

Nor long term if good decisions were made thereafter

Let's keep it real Amar'e isn't worth Max

Nor would someone like Greg be

Do you truly see Greg Monroe as a difference maker

But can Phil pass on him if he's one of choice few out there

Does Phil have the time in the same vein as Walsh 2yrs into a plan

Max for Monroe? No way. I'm not even sure he's worth half the max

Monroe isn't worth max, but his skills are perfect for the triangle. He is only 24yrs old and has a lot of upside in him.

I don't know if he really wanted max or if he just wants out of Detroit and new they would match offers that were less then max.

I made a thread a while back on how the Knicks could stretch out there cap flexibility for 3yrs. If they spent only 10mil next summer, they would have Jr & Shump freeing up like 8mil I think to go along with the remaining money spilled over. If they did the same thing spending around 8mil, they would have Calderon coming off the books freeing up another 7mil to go along with the money spilled over and the new salary cap. Question is who could they land at those prices.

I think Monroe wanted Josh Smith traded.

Wake me up when September ends lol

Wake up! The help has arrived:

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smackeddog wrote:Wake up! The help has arrived:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/Al_Iannazzone/status/519882892324130818

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Why do we need him when

Amar'e is back to DOMINANT and PHENOMENAL?

Bengedon has no shot to make this team

Our interior must really be questionable

F500ONE wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Wake up! The help has arrived:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/Al_Iannazzone/status/519882892324130818

Click here to view the Tweet

Why do we need him when

Amar'e is back to DOMINANT and PHENOMENAL?

Bengedon has no shot to make this team

Our interior must really be questionable

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NYPost_Berman/status/519887526505771008

Click here to view the Tweet

^waiting for nixluva to tell us why he is the missing piece

gunsnewing wrote:^waiting for nixluva to tell us why he is the missing piece

Ha ha. I guess you're still waiting for the same kind of statements From me about Outlaw, Wear or Galloway. I was puzzled by the MBenga signing. My guess is maybe he needed some money. We know he knows the system and perhaps could be useful in showing how to defend the way Fish likes.

Feels like a precursor to a trade.

gunsnewing wrote:

nixluva wrote:

So far it's been adding selfless role players. I think he needs a Scotty Pippen/Lamar Odom type more than anything.

But Melo is the SF

He should be that guy but all he does is score

I disagree. I think amare is pippen.