Knicks · I know Shumpert to PG has been talked about before (page 1)

but I think for the best interest of the tam--perhaps it might be wise to revisit him as the back up PG. He handles well, he's a decent passer he keeps his head up hes athletic he can really guard the position hes 6-5 athletic--why wouldnt he be a smart choice as the back up PG with the middle minutes going to JR Hardaway and Carmelo?

I think what you are trying to say is, we should get rid of Prig's....

I don't think Iman will be able to catch up to JR Smith or Tim Hardaway JR's in terms of speed/quickness or handle after the way he was developed after Woodson and his injury
Of the 3, JR Smith has shown the ability to facilitate/penetrate/handle the ball, it also allows him to stay focused on the game and NOT take bone headed shots

Tim Hardaway JR has played a similar role against much weaker competition in the summer league
He is a "gunner" and his next role could be moved up as similar to JR's old role, hopefully with less boneheaded shots, in the flow of the offense, and continues to find the balace with make plays for team mates as well

I think for Iman to stand out above the other 2

DEFENSE, whether it is PG, SG, or some SF's
We no longer play with a flawed philosophy with the switching
I would have liked to see him teamed up with Tenacious, he doesn't have 1-2 players that can initiate the DEF and play the passing lanes with him like Lin/Fields/JJ did, they all were high IQ players

He just needs to hit wide open shots, set good picks, move the ball, and be the glue player

If he can do the above and contribute a bit more, I would like him do develop a POST game
The Triangle need's POST players to initate the OFFENSE in addition to good ball movement, player movmement, floor spacing, and attacking the opponents DEF as a whole (we were completely loss yesterday)
After a year of Woodson's ISO and bad habits, it is almost like the players have loss the ability to play as a unit
It takes time to break bad habits, I think we saw a bit of everyone having trouble adjusting to team ball and NOT just standing around in the 24 second duration to get an effective shot off
Travis Wear looked the most comfortable within the system, Fisher has a lot of work to do, and hopefully will get better

Now Iman is stronger and bigger than most PG's
So if he really wants to stand out, I would suggest him to learn to post up to initiate the OFFENSE, not necessarily score
But if he can establish himself and use his size/length over PG's, either force a double team and pass out of it, or score over him with the mid range/deep position if gets the ball
JR Smith probably is ahead of him in this category as well but It isn't impossible for Iman to develop given his strength's weakness's

Start next game with the best cohesive 5 that has experience running the system already
I think give majority of the minutes next game to the ones that had success running the Triangle in the summer, the best 5 players that can execute the Triangle, not our most talented
We must instill the trust and belief in the system, getting too many new players to learn a complete different system after playing with no system is going to be tough

Maybe, something like

Larkin/Calderon
Hardaway JR/Calderon
Early/ Hardaway JR/ Wear
Wear
Cole Aldrich

In a sense, let the young teach the veterans...

Then add in 2 players at a time

You said athletic twice. On purpose?
Not a good sign that he's hurt already. I don't think Shump has it in the BB IQ department yet. Not for this new Triangular regime yet, anyway.

Have to agree though; makes PG instantly younger, taller and able defensively. Too bad this isn't the NFL.

Iman doesn't strike me as cerebral and a quick thinker

At the point guard position in this system

We started off nice but went away from it
Also AB played well, if he could POST UP and initiate the OFFENSE with passing out of the post and shoot high % shots

Starting with simple Triangle sets before some more complicated ones
But we should be running plays that have counters and options, with HIGH IQ players that are able to execute it

Whole point is to learn to utilize the system, not win the pre season championship

We didn't have movement OFF the ball and use picks off the ball, just stood in triangle sets where the DEF could predict where the ball likely would go
The G's must understand that the dribble is not used to get in the paint and finish majority of the times
It is used to get in the mid range or get a double team, finding the cuttor/opponents cheating

He's played PG here...has done it at times over a couple of seasons, and proven he can't play there. So no.

Remember when he we tried to make Toney Douglas a PG and he went from useful rotational player to complete scrub and has had to spend the last several seasons rehabilitating his game?

Its just not worth it.

VDesai wrote:He's played PG here...has done it at times over a couple of seasons, and proven he can't play there. So no.

Remember when he we tried to make Toney Douglas a PG and he went from useful rotational player to complete scrub and has had to spend the last several seasons rehabilitating his game?

Its just not worth it.

100% agree with this. shump isn't a pg. he can handle the rock but he has no idea how to run an offense. in a pinch for a few minutes, i dont see it as a problem but to even try and turn him into a pg full-time will kill his already questionable game.

In the triangle it is a bit different, it really depends on the other 4 players as well
It is reading the defense, finding the mismatches, and executing, versus PnR and ISO's for the traditional PG's today

Brian Shaw, Shannon Brown, Vucuvic played PG and was very effective at it, so did Kerr
Neither had a great handle

They did have Jordan/Pippen/Kukoc

Kobe/Odom/Gasol

but

There were times that there were no lead guards with handle or Odom during the Laker's dynasty

To my point, Tim Hardaway JR played the lead guard role in the summer league, though it is weaker compeition

We also must have a post player that is able to initiate the OFFENSE in which Cole Aldrich and Jeremy Tyler was used in the summer, with Wear/Sanchez
With the 24 second violation, we must get in the set's much faster and move together efficiently, that is the hard part, reading the opponents DEF, and taking what the DEF gives us for the high % shot
There must also be a good use of the angles to get the ball in to before the DEF can react in time with good passing/spacing

So as I said earlier, this has a lot more to do with the other 4 guys on the court than 1 PG in my opinion
A reason why Calderon didn't look the best yesterday either

Shannon Brown understands the system very well and directed where everyone was suppose to be in the summer

nyk4ever wrote:

VDesai wrote:He's played PG here...has done it at times over a couple of seasons, and proven he can't play there. So no.

Remember when he we tried to make Toney Douglas a PG and he went from useful rotational player to complete scrub and has had to spend the last several seasons rehabilitating his game?

Its just not worth it.

100% agree with this. shump isn't a pg. he can handle the rock but he has no idea how to run an offense. in a pinch for a few minutes, i dont see it as a problem but to even try and turn him into a pg full-time will kill his already questionable game.

I don't believe in Shump's ability to play PG either. But preseason is the time to experiment. I say try him out and see if he can handle the triangle.

BigDaddyG wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

VDesai wrote:He's played PG here...has done it at times over a couple of seasons, and proven he can't play there. So no.

Remember when he we tried to make Toney Douglas a PG and he went from useful rotational player to complete scrub and has had to spend the last several seasons rehabilitating his game?

Its just not worth it.

100% agree with this. shump isn't a pg. he can handle the rock but he has no idea how to run an offense. in a pinch for a few minutes, i dont see it as a problem but to even try and turn him into a pg full-time will kill his already questionable game.

I don't believe in Shump's ability to play PG either. But preseason is the time to experiment. I say try him out and see if he can handle the triangle.

Exactly. If Calderon can play 30 minutes--lets see of Shumpert can play 10-15 minutes in pre season. I think many of us can remember that MJ and Pippen used to bring the ball up for the Bulls a lot. I think Shumnpert can do that as well--and I think he can get us into our offense or move the team quickly up court off a missed shot. Why not give it a chance in pre season to see how it looks--we cant play Shumpert Melo Hardaway and JR Smith enough minutes at 2-3 anyway--and I d rather have my best guys out there.

Everyone deserves a clean slate. Iman Shumpert should be given every chance to succeed. With that said have the hook ready. I just don't think Shump is that good.

Vmart wrote:Everyone deserves a clean slate. Iman Shumpert should be given every chance to succeed. With that said have the hook ready. I just don't think Shump is that good.

I agree. I also don't think he can or should play the point. Shump needs to figure things out or he will be following Terrence Williams career path.

Vmart wrote:Everyone deserves a clean slate. Iman Shumpert should be given every chance to succeed. With that said have the hook ready. I just don't think Shump is that good.

Shumpert was kind of jipped with his ACL tear because he was on his way to becoming a first team defensive NBA type player. I think since hes been back--he's been a sub par over rated NBA player(over rated by Knicks fans) he hasnt been that good. But hes 24 he 2 years past that injury--hes got a great NBA body he can shoot handle pass defend--now can he do these things more consistently and within the team system. He needs to become more efficient --he needs to be smart. I do not see the harm giving him 2 pre season games to play bask up PG. I kn ow Prigioni can do it but can I atleast look at Shumpert for 15 minutes in 2-3 games? What exactly would i be putting at risk? We can get both Larkin and Shumnpert in there.

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:Everyone deserves a clean slate. Iman Shumpert should be given every chance to succeed. With that said have the hook ready. I just don't think Shump is that good.

Shumpert was kind of jipped with his ACL tear because he was on his way to becoming a first team defensive NBA type player. I think since hes been back--he's been a sub par over rated NBA player(over rated by Knicks fans) he hasnt been that good. But hes 24 he 2 years past that injury--hes got a great NBA body he can shoot handle pass defend--now can he do these things more consistently and within the team system. He needs to become more efficient --he needs to be smart. I do not see the harm giving him 2 pre season games to play bask up PG. I kn ow Prigioni can do it but can I atleast look at Shumpert for 15 minutes in 2-3 games? What exactly would i be putting at risk? We can get both Larkin and Shumnpert in there.

I am hoping Larkin is just rusty or hasn't had enough minutes in the nba to figure things out yet. I didn't see much last night. He played the most minutes on the team.

Fisher suggests all three Knicks SGs can share floor: Knicks coach Derek Fisher started J.R. Smith at shooting guard in the Knicks’ preseason opener over Iman Shumpert and Tim Hardaway Jr.

There's a perception out there that all three players will be competing for time on the floor this season. But Fisher suggested Thursday that all three guards can play on the floor together.

“In our system they can all play the lead guard, they can play the off-guard, they can also play a wing position so we won’t have a problem playing three of those guys together and to be able to do a lot of those things offensively,” Fisher said.

BRIGGS wrote:Fisher suggests all three Knicks SGs can share floor: Knicks coach Derek Fisher started J.R. Smith at shooting guard in the Knicks’ preseason opener over Iman Shumpert and Tim Hardaway Jr.

There's a perception out there that all three players will be competing for time on the floor this season. But Fisher suggested Thursday that all three guards can play on the floor together.

“In our system they can all play the lead guard, they can play the off-guard, they can also play a wing position so we won’t have a problem playing three of those guys together and to be able to do a lot of those things offensively,” Fisher said.

Music to my ears

BRIGGS wrote:but I think for the best interest of the tam--perhaps it might be wise to revisit him as the back up PG. He handles well, he's a decent passer he keeps his head up hes athletic he can really guard the position hes 6-5 athletic--why wouldnt he be a smart choice as the back up PG with the middle minutes going to JR Hardaway and Carmelo?

He handles well? The ball? No way. He's an awful ball handler. Pressure? His confidence shrunk when trade rumors flew around. Decent passer? Maybe in college. Not since he's been in the league. The only offense this guy has shown is a little bit of a decent 3-ball. Other than that, he offers nothing. He hasn't done anything on offense with his athletic ability. He never gets in the lane and when he does he doesn't finish well and throws up some wild shots. Now if we want to switch the match up and have Shump guard some more PG's that's one thing but he can't play PG at all.

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:Everyone deserves a clean slate. Iman Shumpert should be given every chance to succeed. With that said have the hook ready. I just don't think Shump is that good.

Shumpert was kind of jipped with his ACL tear because he was on his way to becoming a first team defensive NBA type player. I think since hes been back--he's been a sub par over rated NBA player(over rated by Knicks fans) he hasnt been that good. But hes 24 he 2 years past that injury--hes got a great NBA body he can shoot handle pass defend--now can he do these things more consistently and within the team system. He needs to become more efficient --he needs to be smart. I do not see the harm giving him 2 pre season games to play bask up PG. I kn ow Prigioni can do it but can I atleast look at Shumpert for 15 minutes in 2-3 games? What exactly would i be putting at risk? We can get both Larkin and Shumnpert in there.

Look let's be honest JR Smith would make the best PG of all the SG the Knicks have. Shump while I agree with you had the ACL injury and hurt is level of play. I just don't see PG potential even in a triangle offense. Shump has very little pg instincts. Shump hated playing SF and made it clear. What would Shump do playing PG he would probably curl up into fetal position with his thumb in his mouth. To play PG you have to be mentally tough and I hate to say but it's the reality Shump doesn't have the mental make up for it.

The Knicks need to learn the triangle and get it down I'm not buying that you use the preseason as an experimental phase. I certainly don't think they should waste 2-3 games experimenting Shump at PG that would be a waste of valuable prep time.

JR doesn't play defense. Shump does. Who is going to shut down the perimeter? Calderon? Melo?

gunsnewing wrote:JR doesn't play defense. Shump does. Who is going to shut down the perimeter? Calderon? Melo?

Did you think things through just put Shump at SG and JR at PG.

gunsnewing wrote:JR doesn't play defense. Shump does. Who is going to shut down the perimeter? Calderon? Melo?

Shump's decision making at the point isn't as good as JR's. It is really bad and he can't hit a jump shot and since his injury has struggled to finish at the basket. Shump needs to figure things out if he doesn't want to live up to his predraft scouting reports.