Knicks · My Official Starting Lineup (page 2)

gunsnewing wrote:3months for JR. He was 100% right about that. He won't even be a Knick that long

As for Acy I think he and Dalembert do enough offensively for the triangle to work and you have Jason & Wear to fill any voids

For now on I will not speak of amare, BARGNANI & JR. They are no longer KNICK players as far as I'm concerned

well then your living on fantasy island, which means your line up is a pipe dream and no one should take you remotely serious.

I love what Acy brings to the table. I would do

C Dalembert
PF Acy
SF Anthony
SG Smith or Hardaway
PG Calderon

We really need the offense at the 2. Defensively we will be ok. Without one of those 2 in the starting lineup, i'm not sure we shoot the ball well enough for the triangle offense and to give Melo spacing. I love the balance here though. I am willing to give JR one more chance to see what he can do as a starter with full commitment.

Calderon can shoot and he is efficient

An improved Shumpert is a better all around player than JR & THJ. Those 2 don't defend on the same level. With Melo and Calderon's difficiences on D we need what Shumpert brings. He also won't get in Melo's way

gunsnewing wrote:Calderon can shoot and he is efficient

An improved Shumpert is a better all around player than JR & THJ. Those 2 don't defend on the same level. With Melo and Calderon's difficiences on D we need what Shumpert brings. He also won't get in Melo's way

Good points. I agree with you. I like Shumpert on the same line with Melo and Calderon. He supplies some offense, he's actually a capable outside shooter who will help space the floor and he's probably the best man to man defender on the team, capable of taking on (and hopefully stifling) the opposition's best individual player right off the bat -- there's value in not allowing the other team's best player 1-3 to get comfortable & in a groove at the start of the game. He's perfect where he is imo, as the starting 2G.

I'd actually like to see STAT starting myself. I think he's too important a player on this team not to get right and I think starting and playing with Calderon might get him going and help get the most out of him and to me, that's the name of the game: try to get the most out of this man while he's still wearing a Knick uniform.

My starting lineup/rotation:

5 - Aldrich
4 - STAT
3 - Melo
2 - Shumpert
1 - Calderon
------------------------
Jason Smith
Acy
JR Smith/Early?
Hardaway
Larkin - Fisher's made an obvious commitment to Larkin, see it through now. We're seeing some growing pains, just stay the course. My bet is it will bear fruit. If after an extended period of time it's not working out, then there's 37-year-old Pablo Prigioni to fall back on. I like how Fisher's been talking to Lakin on the sidelines all the time, sometimes with conviction. You can tell he's a little perplexed at how Larkin's been playing, that he knows he's capable of much more. Looks like Fish has been telling him to be more aggressive...Coach looks determined get Larkin right and I like it. I think it's the way to go. There's potential for a lot more than what Prigioni can do at this point. Continue trying to tap into that talent.

And this rotation can be thinned out a little further if need be -- maybe the rookie Early isn't included and has to continue developing in practice, ride the pine and carry the luggage for the time being. Or, maybe Early goes to the D-League right away, along with Travis Wear. I think a good DL stint would work wonders for both players -- let Early go to Westchester, get a ton of PT, and a ton of shots up while refining/perfecting his handle & dribble-drive game. And let's see what type of player Travis Wear really is getting 30-35+ mins. a night at the DL level.

Also Shumpert naturally likes to take it to the hole whereas JR & Hardaway need to be told to. I like Hardaway in the 2nd unit running with the other youngsters like Larkin, Early, Wear & even Amare. Amare will excel in a faster pace instead of bumping heads with Melo

this thread is pure emotion and has little to no actual basketball reality.

Quincy Acy... in 2 years has 90ish games under his belt and has never been projected as much more than an energy guy off the bench, but yea.. lets start him and his 6-7 225lbs of energy at the PF spot because guys dont like Amare. Cmon folks...

gunsnewing wrote:Also Shumpert naturally likes to take it to the hole whereas JR & Hardaway need to be told to. I like Hardaway in the 2nd unit running with the other youngsters like Larkin, Early, Wear & even Amare. Amare will excel in a faster pace instead of bumping heads with Melo

That's nice except that it usually leads to a Shumpert missed dunk, layup, or turnover.

fishmike wrote:this thread is pure emotion and has little to no actual basketball reality.

Quincy Acy... in 2 years has 90ish games under his belt and has never been projected as much more than an energy guy off the bench, but yea.. lets start him and his 6-7 225lbs of energy at the PF spot because guys dont like Amare. Cmon folks...

thats what i said, and shumpert never takes it to the hole either, nor can he lead a fast break.

THJ has taking more FT this preseason than the entire team, JR wasn't going to the hole much last yr because of the linger effects from his surgery..so what the hell are they talking about..

fishmike wrote:this thread is pure emotion and has little to no actual basketball reality.

Quincy Acy... in 2 years has 90ish games under his belt and has never been projected as much more than an energy guy off the bench, but yea.. lets start him and his 6-7 225lbs of energy at the PF spot because guys dont like Amare. Cmon folks...

Then what was Fisher doing last night?

Here's my thinking with how I laid it out a few posts back:

• Aldrich to me is a better version of Sam Dalembert at this stage of their careers--just as good a basket protector, probably a better rebounder (looked to me like Sammy had a lot of trouble corralling rebounds last night around the rim--I feel Cole snatches up more of those), maybe even a better offensive player (though the last part isn't saying too much--both aren't known for their offense). Why play the older/lesser version of these two players? Play the younger/better version with more upside.

• It allows Shump to start and immediately look to lock down the opposing team's best player 1-3 and set the proper tone defensively.

• It allows Shump, JR AND Timmy to all get ample time -- this is where there could be an issue, with these 3. If one of these 3 were bumped from the rotation, I could see the odd man out sulking, maybe even to the point of distraction. In my rotation, they all play. No issue.

• If Early had to sit, hey, he's a rookie. If Dalembert had to sit, hey, he's an older fringe player that needs to slide into a backup role now. If Bargs needs to sit, hey, he's out with a pulled hammy right now, he's a guy that almost 100% guaranteed won't be on the team next year (Dalembert as well) and a guy I desperately want to see expire off the cap (things can change but as of right now, I want Aldrich and Smith back; Bargs and Dalembert to me are goners. Why invest time into players that won't be around next year? I say establish and build up the younger Aldrich and Smith). Plus, to Andrea's credit, I could see him being unhappy but he doesn't feel like a guy that would outwardly cause a scene to me. I think he'd take it in stride. My gut tells me he'd deal with it and not cause a problem. Jason Smith, to me, is a very similar player who adds a little more on the glass and defensively.

• It allows STAT the opportunity to play with Jose Calderon. I think Calderon could help get STAT going. Larkin's going through his own problems right now---expecting him to get through that AND get Amar'e rolling might be asking too much right now.

• If God forbid we suffer some injuries, then we're in good shape with the depth the rest of these guys provide, at pretty much every position. They're all professionals -- everyone needs to stay ready, whether they're in the rotation to begin with or not.

yellowboy90 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Also Shumpert naturally likes to take it to the hole whereas JR & Hardaway need to be told to. I like Hardaway in the 2nd unit running with the other youngsters like Larkin, Early, Wear & even Amare. Amare will excel in a faster pace instead of bumping heads with Melo

That's nice except that it usually leads to a Shumpert missed dunk, layup, or turnover.

He tore his ACL and is finally 100% this year. Takes a year to recover from surgery and rehab. Then it takes a while to strengthen to get to the point he was at before the injury. Takes a while to trust his knees and get to the point where he isn't thinking about it. Full elevation = finishing at rim, At a higher altitude

Remove personal opinion and the betting line would show the odds on favorites to be starting alongside Melo and Jose are Dalembert and Shumpert.

That leaves the decision to either start a smaller line-up with another guard or go with another big.

Since it is unlikely to be another guard, the likely choices for another big is someone who provides a balance of defense plus some points.

Stat is no defense, so no.

That probably leaves Acy and Jason Smith, since I don't think Cole is being considered as a starter.

Acy is a possibility since he adds defense, boards and intensity needed in the starting lineup. He may not be a liability on offense at all if he meshes with the unit since he could be a 10 point man on few shots as long as he passes well.

Acy actually fits the basic profile of the kind of tough player you'd slot next to Melo and then Melo will have the advantage against 3's on offense.

Jason could possibly work since he is the rare big who operates outside on offense which may not clog anything and leave Sam to stay low and get putbacks. And on Defense, Sam and Jason plus Shump could be a good defensive unit. Jason looks like a passer so he might be a good facilitator too.

Bargs is the wild card, but my read on this is the guy is just not reliable either mentally or physically and this will factor in Fish's starter decisions.

Don't underestimate Dalembert's offensive skills. He has developed his offense over the years to the point where he isn't a liability. And I'm sure playing in Dallas helped

Also Dalembert is far more experienced at starting than 3rd stringer Cole

gunsnewing wrote:Don't underestimate Dalembert's offensive skills. He has developed his offense over the years to the point where he isn't a liability. And I'm sure playing in Dallas helped

Also Dalembert is far more experienced at starting than 3rd stringer Cole

Dalembert is starting. Phil doesn't drop hints randomly.

Cole is a project, part of the 2-3 year plan to see whom they can pick up cheap and make part of a 10 player championship rotation. Cole is here to learn and show they can be a big deal as a 2nd unit player on an improved club, but he is not going to be given the keys to the middle now.

I'm only running with this starting lineup because thats who Fisher started last night. Has nothing to do with my emotions. Those 5 played well and complimented each other. When the subs came in during the 1st and 2nd half the team fell apart.

Now that the starting 5 is set they can focus on the 2nd unit. I like Larkin, Hardaway, Early/Wear, Amare/Jason. Run & Gun baby!!

Splat wrote:Remove personal opinion and the betting line would show the odds on favorites to be starting alongside Melo and Jose are Dalembert and Shumpert.

That leaves the decision to either start a smaller line-up with another guard or go with another big.

Since it is unlikely to be another guard, the likely choices for another big is someone who provides a balance of defense plus some points.

Stat is no defense, so no.

That probably leaves Acy and Jason Smith, since I don't think Cole is being considered as a starter.

Acy is a possibility since he adds defense, boards and intensity needed in the starting lineup. He may not be a liability on offense at all if he meshes with the unit since he could be a 10 point man on few shots as long as he passes well.

Acy actually fits the basic profile of the kind of tough player you'd slot next to Melo and then Melo will have the advantage against 3's on offense.

Jason could possibly work since he is the rare big who operates outside on offense which may not clog anything and leave Sam to stay low and get putbacks. And on Defense, Sam and Jason plus Shump could be a good defensive unit. Jason looks like a passer so he might be a good facilitator too.

Bargs is the wild card, but my read on this is the guy is just not reliable either mentally or physically and this will factor in Fish's starter decisions.

Great post.

If not Acy I see see Jason Smith. Have to see what Jason can do defensively, he is a good passer. Both guys will help space the floor unlike Amare/Bargnani. I like Acy because like you said he compliments Melo

I don't see Fisher going with another lineup.
Every camp fans get excited about every player on the roster because they see all of them play in preseason. When the season starts the 3rd string minutes will be very limited

gunsnewing wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Also Shumpert naturally likes to take it to the hole whereas JR & Hardaway need to be told to. I like Hardaway in the 2nd unit running with the other youngsters like Larkin, Early, Wear & even Amare. Amare will excel in a faster pace instead of bumping heads with Melo

That's nice except that it usually leads to a Shumpert missed dunk, layup, or turnover.

He tore his ACL and is finally 100% this year. Takes a year to recover from surgery and rehab. Then it takes a while to strengthen to get to the point he was at before the injury. Takes a while to trust his knees and get to the point where he isn't thinking about it. Full elevation = finishing at rim, At a higher altitude

Shumpert is easily the most poorly analyzed player among Knicks fans I've ever seen. His lack of any single stand-out talent blinds many to the fact his overall contributions and intangibles are in aggregate already greater than basically every other player on this club.

He had a horrific injury that could have ended many careers, but he was young and it seems now he's recovered to whatever level he can function at physically.

All top clubs need players who provide what he does. You can't win without them. His offensive output on a cohesive ball club like the Spurs would level out at 15 points a game with some bigger nights, but he'd still be a stopper and team player. He can be that here too if they get it together.

Shump needs a real system with good coaching and players who play together to be his best. He is not a star, but he is definitely a piece of the puzzle.

Right on man. Finally someone who agrees with me about Shumpert. Everyone wants him traded but I get the feeling Phil & Fisher love him and really value his potential to becomes a multi-dimensional player.

Splat wrote:Remove personal opinion and the betting line would show the odds on favorites to be starting alongside Melo and Jose are Dalembert and Shumpert.

That leaves the decision to either start a smaller line-up with another guard or go with another big.

Since it is unlikely to be another guard, the likely choices for another big is someone who provides a balance of defense plus some points.

Stat is no defense, so no.

That probably leaves Acy and Jason Smith, since I don't think Cole is being considered as a starter.

Acy is a possibility since he adds defense, boards and intensity needed in the starting lineup. He may not be a liability on offense at all if he meshes with the unit since he could be a 10 point man on few shots as long as he passes well.

Acy actually fits the basic profile of the kind of tough player you'd slot next to Melo and then Melo will have the advantage against 3's on offense.

Jason could possibly work since he is the rare big who operates outside on offense which may not clog anything and leave Sam to stay low and get putbacks. And on Defense, Sam and Jason plus Shump could be a good defensive unit. Jason looks like a passer so he might be a good facilitator too.

Bargs is the wild card, but my read on this is the guy is just not reliable either mentally or physically and this will factor in Fish's starter decisions.

the only way Acy starts is if its for 8 minutes then he's done like Brewer used to do two years ago. However many minutes Amare can play he will. Unless of course you all forget last season and how it ended. I understand people dont like Amare and why, always hurt, the fire extinguisher one year in the playoffs, hurting his back dunking in practice another year in the playoffs... I get it.

Again... look at last year. You can cry about any number of the holes in his game but he remains an impact player when reasonably healthy as proven once again last year. If he's physically able he will play and as much as he's physically able to.

You forgot the main reasons people don't like Amare

1.Defense
2.Black Hole
3.Turnover prone
4.Gets in Melo's way

this is what the starting lineup will be:
5 - Dalembert
4 - Jason Smith
3 - Melo
2 - Shumpert
1 - Calderon

I don't see bargs or Amare starting...jason smith has shown defense ability and an ability to hit the open jumper...

i could be wrong, but i'm pretty positive dalembert starts.