Knicks · My Official Starting Lineup (page 3)

I don't see bargs or Amare starting...jason smith has shown defense ability and an ability to hit the open jumper...

i could be wrong, but i'm pretty positive dalembert starts.

gunsnewing wrote:
Great post.

If not Acy I see see Jason Smith. Have to see what Jason can do defensively, he is a good passer. Both guys will help space the floor unlike Amare/Bargnani. I like Acy because like you said he compliments Melo

I don't see Fisher going with another lineup.
Every camp fans get excited about every player on the roster because they see all of them play in preseason. When the season starts the 3rd string minutes will be very limited

Starting Lineup

Melo
Jose
Sam
Shump
Acy or Jason

Definite Rotaton Players

Timmy
Pablo
Acy or Jason

Definite Rotation Player (Until he wears out his welcome with Fish or is traded)

JR

That's 9 players and if it is a 10 player rotation, that's 1 spot left or leftover minutes for 2-3 players.

Remaining Rotation Candidates

Cole
Bargs
Stat
Early
Shane

I don't know if guys like Wear or Mbenga will even be here or in Westchester.

So you can see it isn't so simple to plug in players like some here think it is. There is basic math and we know who will definitely play and it leaves little room left for the rest.

I've said Stat loses out and this is part of it. But unless Bargs produces quickly he could be reduced to spot minutes or benched too.

My guess is the club is not going to do showcase minutes on either two in order to induce a mid-season trade. They will probably run out their contracts as Knicks barring a willing club takes them which I don't see happening.

So there is little incentive to play Stats or Bargs if they don't fit now, because they are not part of the future and that is what this club is doing now, building for the future.

JR definitely could be traded mid-season.

So my pick for the 10th man is Cleanthony Early. They need to develop him and give him minutes and see if he is Melo's backup.

Cole would probably get the extra minutes left over.

Larkin is the wild card, but he looks psycho out there right now, so I don't know if he will cut it.

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:Remove personal opinion and the betting line would show the odds on favorites to be starting alongside Melo and Jose are Dalembert and Shumpert.

That leaves the decision to either start a smaller line-up with another guard or go with another big.

Since it is unlikely to be another guard, the likely choices for another big is someone who provides a balance of defense plus some points.

Stat is no defense, so no.

That probably leaves Acy and Jason Smith, since I don't think Cole is being considered as a starter.

Acy is a possibility since he adds defense, boards and intensity needed in the starting lineup. He may not be a liability on offense at all if he meshes with the unit since he could be a 10 point man on few shots as long as he passes well.

Acy actually fits the basic profile of the kind of tough player you'd slot next to Melo and then Melo will have the advantage against 3's on offense.

Jason could possibly work since he is the rare big who operates outside on offense which may not clog anything and leave Sam to stay low and get putbacks. And on Defense, Sam and Jason plus Shump could be a good defensive unit. Jason looks like a passer so he might be a good facilitator too.

Bargs is the wild card, but my read on this is the guy is just not reliable either mentally or physically and this will factor in Fish's starter decisions.

the only way Acy starts is if its for 8 minutes then he's done like Brewer used to do two years ago. However many minutes Amare can play he will. Unless of course you all forget last season and how it ended. I understand people dont like Amare and why, always hurt, the fire extinguisher one year in the playoffs, hurting his back dunking in practice another year in the playoffs... I get it.

Again... look at last year. You can cry about any number of the holes in his game but he remains an impact player when reasonably healthy as proven once again last year. If he's physically able he will play and as much as he's physically able to.

Stat is not an impact player. His performance 2nd half last year was enabled by a non-system and a headless coach so his statistics were up, but he was still absolutely vile on defense as usual. Now that he will have to play actual basketball and not street ball, Stat is going to clueless on offense, not just defense. Impact is not the word for this guy. That's so 5 years ago.

Amare is the only big with range and post moves, so i suspect he will be given a shot to start, but i think knowledge of the triangle and chemistry may win out and calderone is the wild card there...

Looking forward to tonight, can't wait until the season starts!

To me it comes down with who are the top 2 and 4 combinations.

Shump and Amare?
THJR and Smith?
JR and Bargs?

gunsnewing wrote:I'm only running with this starting lineup because thats who Fisher started last night. Has nothing to do with my emotions. Those 5 played well and complimented each other. When the subs came in during the 1st and 2nd half the team fell apart.

Now that the starting 5 is set they can focus on the 2nd unit. I like Larkin, Hardaway, Early/Wear, Amare/Jason. Run & Gun baby!!

yellowboy90 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Also Shumpert naturally likes to take it to the hole whereas JR & Hardaway need to be told to. I like Hardaway in the 2nd unit running with the other youngsters like Larkin, Early, Wear & even Amare. Amare will excel in a faster pace instead of bumping heads with Melo

That's nice except that it usually leads to a Shumpert missed dunk, layup, or turnover.

Yeah guns is drumming up fallacies as current truths

On what he thinks Shump will be or hopes to be

Compared to what Shump has been and currently is

He's bench fodder, his defense is elevated overratedness

Can Shump have a good game here and there

Yep scrubs do all the time

Shumpert can't even carry a player

Of Lou Williams caliber jock strap

The year we won a lot of games

Those in which he didn't start[was recovering from injury]

We did just fine without him

Has it occurred to anyone, maybe part of the reason

We've been mediocre the past 3yrs or so

Is because he remains a starter at the 2

I would like to see someone different take this role on

gunsnewing wrote:I agree. Previous regimes would play Amare & Bargnani to save face or increase their trade value. Not Phil & Derek imo. They are both here for the next 5yrs and like you said this is about the future which those 2 are not part of following this year

Many of the comments here seem to be filtered through the old mindset of previous regimes.

Phil is building. I believe it now. He has no obligation to Stat and Bargs. If they don't immediately produce, Phil and Fish have nothing hanging over them that says they need to play.

Phil is running a marathon and is placing his bets for two years down the road five steps ahead of the logic of most posts here today.

Every player that can pay dividends on low salaries in the next few years is intrinsically worth more than an expiring vet.

That means if the developing player contributes more than the vet, the vet will sit.

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I'm only running with this starting lineup because thats who Fisher started last night. Has nothing to do with my emotions. Those 5 played well and complimented each other. When the subs came in during the 1st and 2nd half the team fell apart.

Now that the starting 5 is set they can focus on the 2nd unit. I like Larkin, Hardaway, Early/Wear, Amare/Jason. Run & Gun baby!!

fair enough but dont you think he's just looking at guys? If someone like Acy cracks the SL its only little run like Brewer got two years ago. Started but not really a starter

You're talking about Mike Woodson, a coach who was always inexplicably burying players at the most inopportune times. What other coach in memory would bench a hot hand like he did and lose the game as a result? He did it countless times.

Citing Woodson's coaching strategies to predict Fish's is not logical IMO.

Splat wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:Remove personal opinion and the betting line would show the odds on favorites to be starting alongside Melo and Jose are Dalembert and Shumpert.

That leaves the decision to either start a smaller line-up with another guard or go with another big.

Since it is unlikely to be another guard, the likely choices for another big is someone who provides a balance of defense plus some points.

Stat is no defense, so no.

That probably leaves Acy and Jason Smith, since I don't think Cole is being considered as a starter.

Acy is a possibility since he adds defense, boards and intensity needed in the starting lineup. He may not be a liability on offense at all if he meshes with the unit since he could be a 10 point man on few shots as long as he passes well.

Acy actually fits the basic profile of the kind of tough player you'd slot next to Melo and then Melo will have the advantage against 3's on offense.

Jason could possibly work since he is the rare big who operates outside on offense which may not clog anything and leave Sam to stay low and get putbacks. And on Defense, Sam and Jason plus Shump could be a good defensive unit. Jason looks like a passer so he might be a good facilitator too.

Bargs is the wild card, but my read on this is the guy is just not reliable either mentally or physically and this will factor in Fish's starter decisions.

the only way Acy starts is if its for 8 minutes then he's done like Brewer used to do two years ago. However many minutes Amare can play he will. Unless of course you all forget last season and how it ended. I understand people dont like Amare and why, always hurt, the fire extinguisher one year in the playoffs, hurting his back dunking in practice another year in the playoffs... I get it.

Again... look at last year. You can cry about any number of the holes in his game but he remains an impact player when reasonably healthy as proven once again last year. If he's physically able he will play and as much as he's physically able to.

Stat is not an impact player. His performance 2nd half last year was enabled by a non-system and a headless coach so his statistics were up, but he was still absolutely vile on defense as usual. Now that he will have to play actual basketball and not street ball, Stat is going to clueless on offense, not just defense. Impact is not the word for this guy. That's so 5 years ago.

Splat wrote:

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I'm only running with this starting lineup because thats who Fisher started last night. Has nothing to do with my emotions. Those 5 played well and complimented each other. When the subs came in during the 1st and 2nd half the team fell apart.

Now that the starting 5 is set they can focus on the 2nd unit. I like Larkin, Hardaway, Early/Wear, Amare/Jason. Run & Gun baby!!

fair enough but dont you think he's just looking at guys? If someone like Acy cracks the SL its only little run like Brewer got two years ago. Started but not really a starter

You're talking about Mike Woodson, a coach who was always inexplicably burying players at the most inopportune times. What other coach in memory would bench a hot hand like he did and lose the game as a result? He did it countless times.

Citing Woodson's coaching strategies to predict Fish's is not logical IMO.

Go tell me Acy plays more minutes than Amare (assuming both are healthy) and I know everything I need to about your knowledge of the NBA.

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:
Stat is not an impact player. His performance 2nd half last year was enabled by a non-system and a headless coach so his statistics were up, but he was still absolutely vile on defense as usual. Now that he will have to play actual basketball and not street ball, Stat is going to clueless on offense, not just defense. Impact is not the word for this guy. That's so 5 years ago.

yup.... because the NBA is just littered with guy who can give you 15+ points a game on 55% shooting or more. Pretty obvious you didnt watch any of those games.

I watched them all. Like I said, he was playing in a non-system of broken basketball where he could post and score and pad his stats, but he cannot function any other way. He was not impactful on the outcome of games or the standings regardless. He's halfway out the door whether you love him or not. Whether he plays or not is up to him and his ability to grasp basic principles of playing well with others. If Fish decides he can't do that and sits him, are you going to tell me I didn't watch it happen?

fishmike wrote:Go tell me Acy plays more minutes than Amare (assuming both are healthy) and I know everything I need to about your knowledge of the NBA.

That's how you debate another person? Don't bother me if you stoop that low so quickly.

Amare has been producing in the preseason and has more offensive weapons than ACY, if anything, Acy is 3rd in line or number 2 at the 3, but he's definitely NOT starting, with Bargs hurt and Smith playing his first game, completely obvious that fish was just looking at combinations...no need to get testy with each other.

Splat wrote:

fishmike wrote:Go tell me Acy plays more minutes than Amare (assuming both are healthy) and I know everything I need to about your knowledge of the NBA.

That's how you debate another person? Don't bother me if you stoop that low so quickly.

It's not even about stooping low, but when your making a point that makes zero sense, people are going to question your knowledge big time. You guys keep talking about amare like he's the worse player in the league, the dude hasn't made 250 million because of his looks. You can talk about amare's D just like you can talk about Acy's lack of offense.

I like Jason smith, but you want to tell me he's better than amare, thats stupidity x 10. Then you want to sit there and say Amare benefited from woodson system, these comments are an insult to true NBA fans who know the game, their bias and ridiculous.

It's ok for everyone else to have a learning curve, but JR, Amare, and Bargiani better pick this system up in 48 hrs or please get them the hell out of here..

Splat wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:
Stat is not an impact player. His performance 2nd half last year was enabled by a non-system and a headless coach so his statistics were up, but he was still absolutely vile on defense as usual. Now that he will have to play actual basketball and not street ball, Stat is going to clueless on offense, not just defense. Impact is not the word for this guy. That's so 5 years ago.

yup.... because the NBA is just littered with guy who can give you 15+ points a game on 55% shooting or more. Pretty obvious you didnt watch any of those games.

I watched them all. Like I said, he was playing in a non-system of broken basketball where he could post and score and pad his stats, but he cannot function any other way. He was not impactful on the outcome of games or the standings regardless. He's halfway out the door whether you love him or not. Whether he plays or not is up to him and his ability to grasp basic principles of playing well with others. If Fish decides he can't do that and sits him, are you going to tell me I didn't watch it happen?

Bench JR Smith
Shumpert

gunsnewing wrote:wasnt Phil trying to trade amare to philly?

Only to create more cap space to sign Gasol, who was more familiar with the triangle and would have made fishers job that much easier.

knicks1248 wrote:

Splat wrote:

fishmike wrote:Go tell me Acy plays more minutes than Amare (assuming both are healthy) and I know everything I need to about your knowledge of the NBA.

That's how you debate another person? Don't bother me if you stoop that low so quickly.

It's not even about stooping low, but when your making a point that makes zero sense, people are going to question your knowledge big time. You guys keep talking about amare like he's the worse player in the league, the dude hasn't made 250 million because of his looks. You can talk about amare's D just like you can talk about Acy's lack of offense.

I like Jason smith, but you want to tell me he's better than amare, thats stupidity x 10. Then you want to sit there and say Amare benefited from woodson system, these comments are an insult to true NBA fans who know the game, their bias and ridiculous.

It's ok for everyone else to have a learning curve, but JR, Amare, and Bargiani better pick this system up in 48 hrs or please get them the hell out of here..

Talk about stooping low. You didnt even bother to debate with this guy. Right to judgemental opinions. Geeze.

OK... back to reality.

I totally get that we are rebuilding this roster but dont expect the starting lineup to reflect that. Fischer will lean on the vets who pick up the system, and after that vets period. He needs to win some games early somehow, and that means leaning on the guys who produce. Amare had a great finish last year. Something like 15/6 and 55 FG% in 28 minutes. The kind of numbers that impact games and produce wins.

If you don't agree, you call the other person stupid or a know nothing.