Vmart wrote:I want to see if Shump deserves a new contract with the Knicks. I would purposely throw adversity towards Shump to see his reaction. Based off of that I would determine the money he gets. 5-7 million I think is to much for Shump at this moment in time.
I dont think anyone would argue that.
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:TripleThreat wrote:fishmike wrote:My plan all along was a pump and dump. Get him playing well and send him to anyone for an expiring contract and a first rounder, even if its like pick 30.Thoughts?
If Shumpert rebuilds his trade value this year, he will still only be a short term rental at the trade deadline, and that lingering question of "Is This A Future Core Guy?" will simply pass onto the new team in any deal. The most the Knicks are likely to get is a 2nd round pick.
The key issue here IMHO is that Melo and Calderon are the only true roster locks for the next three seasons ( I just don't see the Knicks finding a way to dump Calderon's contract) Whomever the Knicks have playing the other wing position ( If Melo stays at SF) needs to be a plus defender. The Knick have zero hope to win if they have Melo ( lousy defender), Calderon( aging lousy defender) and then add another wing who can't defend.
Complicating this is there is no one else on the roster who is young and being groomed that can offer plus defense on the wing. Whether it's Shump or someone else, the Knicks need a SG who can be an elite defender.
I don't think the Knicks extend a QO to Shump, I think he leaves. ( Sometimes it's just better for a player to move on)
Oh, I think if he's playing as well as Fish is suggesting, you could get a pick around 25.
If he's playing like his career #s, you probably won't get more than a pick around 55 though.
didnt we have a deal on the table for him to OKC for at least one of their first rounders and Dolan killed it? I would agree with your post regardless though... if he's playing well there will be a team willing to give up a late #1 for a rental or perhaps more if they think he fits into their long term plans
Yeah, that was when he had more than a full season left on a rookie contract though. At the trade deadline, he'll have only 2 months left on his rookie deal.
gunsnewing wrote:Put it this way.I rather have Shumpert, Sammy, Acy & Jason
Then
Marc Gasol & JR Smith
I'd take Marc Gasol over any and all of those other guys
Bonn1997 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Put it this way.I rather have Shumpert, Sammy, Acy & Jason
Then
Marc Gasol & JR Smith
I'd take Marc Gasol over any and all of those other guys
I'm holding you to that one Bonn
Seriously Gasol is older and will not come cheap. You are not going to want him after Shumpert's borderline allstar season
and yes he is capable. He is the teams #2 option this year. The role he should've had all along running with Melo
Bonn1997 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Put it this way.I rather have Shumpert, Sammy, Acy & Jason
Then
Marc Gasol & JR Smith
I'd take Marc Gasol over any and all of those other guys
yea... but Im not sure now. He's huge. He's a plodder. If guys are worried about Melo's mileage and being honest you have to be 2x as concerned about Gasol. Hard to imaging that production too far into his 30s. Guys that size are a foot stress fracture waiting to happen
fishmike wrote:Say he played great and is injury free... 12ppg, 5rebs, 2steals, 2 assists and he playing impact defense that sounds like 4 years $30mm (about 7.5mm a year) a little less than what Ariza got I believe.Thoughts?
I would hope in this system, in this backcourt, he gets more than 2 dimes a game. Maybe that's asking for too much.
I still think Shump's more valuable than Ariza at this point in their comparitive careers/Knick tenures. Shump projects more as an Evan Turner type rather than a George Lynch.
jrodmc wrote:fishmike wrote:Say he played great and is injury free... 12ppg, 5rebs, 2steals, 2 assists and he playing impact defense that sounds like 4 years $30mm (about 7.5mm a year) a little less than what Ariza got I believe.Thoughts?
I would hope in this system, in this backcourt, he gets more than 2 dimes a game. Maybe that's asking for too much.
I still think Shump's more valuable than Ariza at this point in their comparitive careers/Knick tenures. Shump projects more as an Evan Turner type rather than a George Lynch.
That would be a steal. I'm expecting better numbers than that. If we can lock him up for under $10mil per it is a steal
for example a 30+ guy like Gasol will cost at minimum $12-14
We finally may be developing our best 2way multi-dimensional player since Ewing, its been 30yrs and people are ok losing him WOW?
gunsnewing wrote:We finally may be developing our best 2way multi-dimensional player since Ewing, its been 30yrs and people are ok losing him WOW?
dude. Are we still talking about Shumpert?
fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Put it this way.I rather have Shumpert, Sammy, Acy & Jason
Then
Marc Gasol & JR Smith
I'd take Marc Gasol over any and all of those other guys
yea... but Im not sure now. He's huge. He's a plodder. If guys are worried about Melo's mileage and being honest you have to be 2x as concerned about Gasol. Hard to imaging that production too far into his 30s. Guys that size are a foot stress fracture waiting to happen
It's a fair point and a gamble. I don't think his contract size can go as big as the super max though. We definitely can't offer that many years. It would probably be something like 4 years, $85 mil.
Bonn1997 wrote:fishmike wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Put it this way.I rather have Shumpert, Sammy, Acy & Jason
Then
Marc Gasol & JR Smith
I'd take Marc Gasol over any and all of those other guys
yea... but Im not sure now. He's huge. He's a plodder. If guys are worried about Melo's mileage and being honest you have to be 2x as concerned about Gasol. Hard to imaging that production too far into his 30s. Guys that size are a foot stress fracture waiting to happen
It's a fair point and a gamble. I don't think his contract size can go as big as the super max though. We definitely can't offer that many years. It would probably be something like 4 years, $85 mil.
Bonn you are going to love guys like ACY & Jason Smith. Cheap and efficient in the triangle. No more starphuching for former stars
gunsnewing wrote:jrodmc wrote:fishmike wrote:Say he played great and is injury free... 12ppg, 5rebs, 2steals, 2 assists and he playing impact defense that sounds like 4 years $30mm (about 7.5mm a year) a little less than what Ariza got I believe.Thoughts?
I would hope in this system, in this backcourt, he gets more than 2 dimes a game. Maybe that's asking for too much.
I still think Shump's more valuable than Ariza at this point in their comparitive careers/Knick tenures. Shump projects more as an Evan Turner type rather than a George Lynch.
That would be a steal. I'm expecting better numbers than that. If we can lock him up for under $10mil per it is a steal
for example a 30+ guy like Gasol will cost at minimum $12-14
Sorry Guns, but you're delusional when it comes to appraising Shump's value. 10 million per is most certainly not "music to my ears". I understand you like guys that play defense but we're talking about a player that looked absolutely lost last year and has played a few decent preseason games. Lance Stephenson is worth $10mil and he is a top 5 SG in the league. Answer this honestly: is shump anywhere near stephenson's level? No he's not, but you're saying it's a steal if we can pay him as much as a far superior player gets.
Shump is not going to get a $10M annual deal this off-season. Come on.
Shumps worth about 4.5mil per right now. He is a reliable jumper away from moving to that next bracket. And is better handle, few go to moves, and better finishing around the rim from moving to the bracket after that. Which he probably never develops. So the best thing for him would be to stay within his capabilities of defense extra paases working within the system and work on that jumper.
The triangle is about wing players who can do multiple things...That's Shump...Its obvious that Phil gave him a pep talk over the summer...He has a new attitude...Melo slimmed down to play the wing..Wing players, outside shooters to create space and cutters..More than a new TV deal, the triangle has Shump here..
My biggest worry is if Shump undergoes TV deal changes himself. Then he'll have to play in the WNBA.
Dagger wrote:gunsnewing wrote:jrodmc wrote:fishmike wrote:Say he played great and is injury free... 12ppg, 5rebs, 2steals, 2 assists and he playing impact defense that sounds like 4 years $30mm (about 7.5mm a year) a little less than what Ariza got I believe.Thoughts?
I would hope in this system, in this backcourt, he gets more than 2 dimes a game. Maybe that's asking for too much.
I still think Shump's more valuable than Ariza at this point in their comparitive careers/Knick tenures. Shump projects more as an Evan Turner type rather than a George Lynch.
That would be a steal. I'm expecting better numbers than that. If we can lock him up for under $10mil per it is a steal
for example a 30+ guy like Gasol will cost at minimum $12-14
Sorry Guns, but you're delusional when it comes to appraising Shump's value. 10 million per is most certainly not "music to my ears". I understand you like guys that play defense but we're talking about a player that looked absolutely lost last year and has played a few decent preseason games. Lance Stephenson is worth $10mil and he is a top 5 SG in the league. Answer this honestly: is shump anywhere near stephenson's level? No he's not, but you're saying it's a steal if we can pay him as much as a far superior player gets.
I said under $10mil meaning $7-9mil
holfresh wrote:The triangle is about wing players who can do multiple things...That's Shump...Its obvious that Phil gave him a pep talk over the summer...He has a new attitude...Melo slimmed down to play the wing..Wing players, outside shooters to create space and cutters..More than a new TV deal, the triangle has Shump here..
exactly
For Iman's numbers
he is probably closer to 3-5m deal, with a 2 year deal till he proves he is able to do more
Some comparable talents that needed more time to justify their contracts include...
Similar to how Josh McRoberts, 2year 3m deal (from Indiana to Lakers to Bobcats)
Brandon Rush 3.5m deal 2 year
Gereld Green 3year 3.5m per year aftering being recalled from D League and playing for vet min on Nets
Jared Dudley 4year 4-5m per year
JR Smith 3 year MLE type money
Brandon Wright (2 year 5m per year, after a vet min deal)
Tyler Hansborough 2year deal at about 3-3.5m per year
JJ Redick 3year 5-6m per year in Orlando
shumpert needs a high-percentage corner three and a lock-down defensive ability to cover 2 guards and swingmen.
everything above those two attributes is gravy. he's a 4-5 million dollar player if he achieves these two things.
dk7th wrote:shumpert needs a high-percentage corner three and a lock-down defensive ability to cover 2 guards and swingmen.everything above those two attributes is gravy. he's a 4-5 million dollar player if he achieves these two things.
yup and if his offense comes along like I expect. I expect him to be our #2 option after Melo then he is going to be worth $7-9mil per
Which is a bargain when you consider his age and a guy in his 30s like Gasol will get $14mil
