Knicks · David Lee works very well for GS (page 2)

smackeddog wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????

I think taking the dynamic play out of the equation

David Lee is a better PLAYER than Amar'e

We can argue the injuries derailed Amar'e

But when has someone as athletically gifted as him

Stopped well short of using it to it's potential

If D'Antoni inflated the numbers of players he coached

Then Amar'e career hasn't been all that special considering

Heck one could argue an in shape Diaw is a better PLAYER than Amar'e

I hated Lee's lack of defensive presence but it's no worse than Amar'e

With Lee you can put him on any team with any player and he'll be effective

I also like him at the better price tag

Believe

it

or

not

David Lee is 31 (yikes!), turning 32 this season.

Not

sure he's

going

to be effective once his athleticism

starts to

decline.

Stop acting like Lee's game was predicated

On playing above the rim and finishing

Lee's game unlike Amar'e does not and did not

Rely 75% on athleticism all the way to age 30

Lee has/had a more well rounded and fluid game

He's a better rebounder, playmaker, better off the dribble

Sets better screens and is an adequate enough scorer

To cancel all of what Amar'e brings except peak athleticism

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????

David Lee plays next to Andrew Bogut, which helps a lot in D. Also, Lee is always mentioned in trade rumors. Part of it is his contract, bit I think it also stems from his black of defense. The grass isn't always greener in the othe side.

Bogut has missed a ton of games in GSW

And I can raise you 1, and say

Amar'e played with a Prime Steve Nash

Meanwhile Lee spent a huge chunk of his

Career playing with Marbury, Duhon, Nate, Toney Douglas

Yea and some of the worst defensive teams of all time

BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????

If we had Lee back we'd be trying to trade him for Stat - we have Stat so we want to trade him for Lee. If we had Anthony Davis we'd want to trade him for Antonio McDyss.

Just saying --- it's funny how we never have the right pieces and if we did we've probably already traded them out.

The comparison of Lee and Stat is funny. Just goes to show you that the grass isn't always greener and it really demonstrates how "player fit" is more important than scoring talent. Lee would be a very nice offensive fit with Melo -- defensively and rim protection not so great but Lee is a ball mover, moves himself, handles/passes and just helps an offense flow without the high % of turnovers and forced shots.

BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????

Also underrated on GS is fact that C-Thompson/A-Iggy/A-Bogut are all +plus defenders and all can handle/pass --- makes it much easier to flourish when Curry/Lee offensive skills are complemented.

Like Phil said and he's right -- we still have a clumsy roster. Kind of roster where we need to combine our 3 SGs to get 1 Klay Thompson. No Iggy to be found on our roster - no Steph Curry...etc....etc.

People forget just how dominant STAT was. When we got him he had just played a full season and literally carried his Suns team into the playoffs. In 09-10 STAT played 82 games 35mpg they went 54-28 they swept the Spurs and went to the WCF's. That was the STAT we were getting at that point. He most certainly was a better player in most opinions at that time.

Nalod wrote:DLee is better on a better team. He was our best player!!!!

6 years ago was 6 years ago. That team was a mess. 23 wins.
We then Starphuched with a running coach who could not make that team work.

That was then, this is now. Briggs, I appreciate your view but our looking in hindsight.
We made mistakes, big ones. Bargs is CAA. Its all good if you trade picks that are turn out in the 20's but that means you have to finish top 10.

And that don't happen.

Do we make that trade again? I dunno. Glad we didn't get Lowrey. Time to rebuild. The pain will begin.

Good sign was Melo signed on for the pain train. Either he is greedy or Phil presented him and his Team with a vision.
A vision we are not privy to!

Good point on Lee being a better player on a better team -- picture a healthy STAT playing PF along with Curry/Thompson/Iggy/Bogut -- he'd feast.

It's not far fetched to envision scenario where STAT leaves next year - ends up on the right team and is a very efficient/productive offensive player on a playoff team. Picture him coming off bench for Clippers with CP3 feeding him and D-Jordan protecting him defensively.

nixluva wrote:People forget just how dominant STAT was. When we got him he had just played a full season and literally carried his Suns team into the playoffs. In 09-10 STAT played 82 games 35mpg they went 54-28 they swept the Spurs and went to the WCF's. That was the STAT we were getting at that point. He most certainly was a better player in most opinions at that time.

You mean playing with a point guard

Who dropped 16.5/ppg, 11ast, 51%fg, 43%fg(3pt), same season

You still had to consider the financial risk

He was consulted by Phx doctors what team would ever question their doctors?

Lee makes $15mil Stat makes $23mil

Stat was never really $8-12mil/yr better player than Lee 2008 and beyond

Even if you feel he was the better player

LivingLegend wrote:

Nalod wrote:DLee is better on a better team. He was our best player!!!!

6 years ago was 6 years ago. That team was a mess. 23 wins.
We then Starphuched with a running coach who could not make that team work.

That was then, this is now. Briggs, I appreciate your view but our looking in hindsight.
We made mistakes, big ones. Bargs is CAA. Its all good if you trade picks that are turn out in the 20's but that means you have to finish top 10.

And that don't happen.

Do we make that trade again? I dunno. Glad we didn't get Lowrey. Time to rebuild. The pain will begin.

Good sign was Melo signed on for the pain train. Either he is greedy or Phil presented him and his Team with a vision.
A vision we are not privy to!

Good point on Lee being a better player on a better team -- picture a healthy STAT playing PF along with Curry/Thompson/Iggy/Bogut -- he'd feast.

It's not far fetched to envision scenario where STAT leaves next year - ends up on the right team and is a very efficient/productive offensive player on a playoff team. Picture him coming off bench for Clippers with CP3 feeding him and D-Jordan protecting him defensively.

Picture Lee playing with Nash from 2005-2009 he'd feast

F500ONE wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????

David Lee plays next to Andrew Bogut, which helps a lot in D. Also, Lee is always mentioned in trade rumors. Part of it is his contract, bit I think it also stems from his black of defense. The grass isn't always greener in the othe side.

Bogut has missed a ton of games in GSW

And I can raise you 1, and say

Amar'e played with a Prime Steve Nash

Meanwhile Lee spent a huge chunk of his

Career playing with Marbury, Duhon, Nate, Toney Douglas

And the past three years playing for Steph Curry. We can go and on about who played with which player and when they played, but I'm only interested in the present. Add Thompson and Iguadola to Bogut and you've got a solid defensive infrastructure that can compensate for Lee. Heck, even Curry is a better defender than any or our pointguards. We don't really have that for STAT.

BigDaddyG wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????

David Lee plays next to Andrew Bogut, which helps a lot in D. Also, Lee is always mentioned in trade rumors. Part of it is his contract, bit I think it also stems from his black of defense. The grass isn't always greener in the othe side.

Bogut has missed a ton of games in GSW

And I can raise you 1, and say

Amar'e played with a Prime Steve Nash

Meanwhile Lee spent a huge chunk of his

Career playing with Marbury, Duhon, Nate, Toney Douglas

And the past three years playing for Steph Curry. We can go and on about who played with which player and when they played, but I'm only interested in the present. Add Thompson and Iguadola to Bogut and you've got a solid defensive infrastructure that can compensate for Lee. Heck, even Curry is a better defender than any or our pointguards. We don't really have that for STAT.

He only played 1 season with Iggy

Iggy is being moved to the bench

Once again Bogut has missed a buttload of games

So that leaves Curry, you could argue because Lee has

A very respectable midrange jumper and is

High% ambidextrous around the basket, along with passing ability

He makes his teammates better, not the other way around

Lee got his numbers aside from playing with Curry

He's always been a consistent double double guy

As his career progressed you saw the offensive numbers jump

Lee was 20/12 last season as a Knick

F500ONE wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????

David Lee plays next to Andrew Bogut, which helps a lot in D. Also, Lee is always mentioned in trade rumors. Part of it is his contract, bit I think it also stems from his black of defense. The grass isn't always greener in the othe side.

Bogut has missed a ton of games in GSW

And I can raise you 1, and say

Amar'e played with a Prime Steve Nash

Meanwhile Lee spent a huge chunk of his

Career playing with Marbury, Duhon, Nate, Toney Douglas

And the past three years playing for Steph Curry. We can go and on about who played with which player and when they played, but I'm only interested in the present. Add Thompson and Iguadola to Bogut and you've got a solid defensive infrastructure that can compensate for Lee. Heck, even Curry is a better defender than any or our pointguards. We don't really have that for STAT.

He only played 1 season with Iggy

Iggy is being moved to the bench

Once again Bogut has missed a buttload of games

So that leaves Curry, you could argue because Lee has

A very respectable midrange jumper and is

High% ambidextrous around the basket, along with passing ability

He makes his teammates better, not the other way around

Lee got his numbers aside from playing with Curry

He's always been a consistent double double guy

As his career progressed you saw the offensive numbers jump

Lee was 20/12 last season as a Knick

I didn't say how long he played with Iggy. He plays with Iggy now. No one questions David Lee's offensive skills. The question is why Golden State can stand Lee's lax defensive and the Knicks can't do the same for STAT. Golden State's roster is better suited to handle Lee's bad defense than we are to handle STAT's bad D.

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:People forget just how dominant STAT was. When we got him he had just played a full season and literally carried his Suns team into the playoffs. In 09-10 STAT played 82 games 35mpg they went 54-28 they swept the Spurs and went to the WCF's. That was the STAT we were getting at that point. He most certainly was a better player in most opinions at that time.

You mean playing with a point guard

Who dropped 16.5/ppg, 11ast, 51%fg, 43%fg(3pt), same season

You still had to consider the financial risk

He was consulted by Phx doctors what team would ever question their doctors?

Lee makes $15mil Stat makes $23mil

Stat was never really $8-12mil/yr better player than Lee 2008 and beyond

Even if you feel he was the better player

Amare was an excellent pick and roll center who played with the best pick and roll PG of his generation, and perhaps in the history of the game.

Amare's fragility was known before we picked him up. The Knicks gambled... and they lost, even though he had that great first season with the us.

You can make a case that even if Amare is the better individual talent, Lee is much better in a team oriented system, or one in which he is not the featured star of his team. Lee was also a better fit with Carmelo, to be honest.

Today, Lee would be a better fit in Jackson's system, especially given the fact that he developed a solid midrange game by the time the Knicks let him go.

The grass always seems greener on the other side, until you actually get there, it would seem.

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:People forget just how dominant STAT was. When we got him he had just played a full season and literally carried his Suns team into the playoffs. In 09-10 STAT played 82 games 35mpg they went 54-28 they swept the Spurs and went to the WCF's. That was the STAT we were getting at that point. He most certainly was a better player in most opinions at that time.

You mean playing with a point guard

Who dropped 16.5/ppg, 11ast, 51%fg, 43%fg(3pt), same season

You still had to consider the financial risk

He was consulted by Phx doctors what team would ever question their doctors?

Lee makes $15mil Stat makes $23mil

Stat was never really $8-12mil/yr better player than Lee 2008 and beyond

Even if you feel he was the better player

You really need to stop posting if you are gonna keep making such dumb comments. We all know Nash is a great PG, but that doesn't take away from who STAT is as a player when he's healthy. They both made each other look good. STAT was a beast that year in particular as the season progressed:

      PPG   REB  BLK
Feb.  25.3  10.1 1.0
Mar.  27.3  9.9  0.9
Apr.  26.3  9.3  1.4

After all his health issues it was a good performance by STAT getting stronger as the season went along and him playing a full season and 3 rounds of playoff games. Just looking at how he was playing to end the year no one would say that Lee was better than STAT at that time.

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:People forget just how dominant STAT was. When we got him he had just played a full season and literally carried his Suns team into the playoffs. In 09-10 STAT played 82 games 35mpg they went 54-28 they swept the Spurs and went to the WCF's. That was the STAT we were getting at that point. He most certainly was a better player in most opinions at that time.

You mean playing with a point guard

Who dropped 16.5/ppg, 11ast, 51%fg, 43%fg(3pt), same season

You still had to consider the financial risk

He was consulted by Phx doctors what team would ever question their doctors?

Lee makes $15mil Stat makes $23mil

Stat was never really $8-12mil/yr better player than Lee 2008 and beyond

Even if you feel he was the better player

You really need to stop posting if you are gonna keep making such dumb comments. We all know Nash is a great PG, but that doesn't take away from who STAT is as a player when he's healthy. They both made each other look good. STAT was a beast that year in particular as the season progressed:

      PPG   REB  BLK
Feb.  25.3  10.1 1.0
Mar.  27.3  9.9  0.9
Apr.  26.3  9.3  1.4

After all his health issues it was a good performance by STAT getting stronger as the season went along and him playing a full season and 3 rounds of playoff games. Just looking at how he was playing to end the year no one would say that Lee was better than STAT at that time.

Phx continued to roll even when Amare was out in Phx due to injuries twice. Nash impact>>>>>>>>Amare. Phx might would have even went to the finals if Amare hadnt came off that bench against the Spurs which adds to not only is Amare merely a system player he's also dumb.

Here is a video from the playoffs that year to at least give more of a clear picture of how STAT scores so that you can see that sure Nash made for easy scores but STAT worked for most of his points and dominated defenders to score a lot of his baskets. He's scoring over people and thru people in a variety of ways. This is the guy that the Knicks thought they were getting and taking a chance on.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:People forget just how dominant STAT was. When we got him he had just played a full season and literally carried his Suns team into the playoffs. In 09-10 STAT played 82 games 35mpg they went 54-28 they swept the Spurs and went to the WCF's. That was the STAT we were getting at that point. He most certainly was a better player in most opinions at that time.

You mean playing with a point guard

Who dropped 16.5/ppg, 11ast, 51%fg, 43%fg(3pt), same season

You still had to consider the financial risk

He was consulted by Phx doctors what team would ever question their doctors?

Lee makes $15mil Stat makes $23mil

Stat was never really $8-12mil/yr better player than Lee 2008 and beyond

Even if you feel he was the better player

You really need to stop posting if you are gonna keep making such dumb comments. We all know Nash is a great PG, but that doesn't take away from who STAT is as a player when he's healthy. They both made each other look good. STAT was a beast that year in particular as the season progressed:

      PPG   REB  BLK
Feb.  25.3  10.1 1.0
Mar.  27.3  9.9  0.9
Apr.  26.3  9.3  1.4

After all his health issues it was a good performance by STAT getting stronger as the season went along and him playing a full season and 3 rounds of playoff games. Just looking at how he was playing to end the year no one would say that Lee was better than STAT at that time.

Phx continued to roll even when Amare was out in Phx due to injuries twice. Nash impact>>>>>>>>Amare. Phx might would have even went to the finals if Amare hadnt came off that bench against the Spurs which adds to not only is Amare merely a system player he's also dumb.

WTF??? This isn't a STAT vs. Nash issue. You guys aren't getting the point at all. The question was about Lee and STAT who at the time was just coming of a strong finish to his season. We know about the risks of STAT and his injuries but they took that risk hoping they could get the guy that was strong at the end of that season. If he was perfect no way PHX would let him go. We all know he had issues and we know Nash was great. How could we not know that with a 2x MVP. I mean Jesus how stupid is this argument? No one would suggest that STAT is a scrub without Nash. When healthy STAT is dominant regardless of Nash.

BigDaddyG wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????

David Lee plays next to Andrew Bogut, which helps a lot in D. Also, Lee is always mentioned in trade rumors. Part of it is his contract, bit I think it also stems from his black of defense. The grass isn't always greener in the othe side.

Bogut has missed a ton of games in GSW

And I can raise you 1, and say

Amar'e played with a Prime Steve Nash

Meanwhile Lee spent a huge chunk of his

Career playing with Marbury, Duhon, Nate, Toney Douglas

And the past three years playing for Steph Curry. We can go and on about who played with which player and when they played, but I'm only interested in the present. Add Thompson and Iguadola to Bogut and you've got a solid defensive infrastructure that can compensate for Lee. Heck, even Curry is a better defender than any or our pointguards. We don't really have that for STAT.

He only played 1 season with Iggy

Iggy is being moved to the bench

Once again Bogut has missed a buttload of games

So that leaves Curry, you could argue because Lee has

A very respectable midrange jumper and is

High% ambidextrous around the basket, along with passing ability

He makes his teammates better, not the other way around

Lee got his numbers aside from playing with Curry

He's always been a consistent double double guy

As his career progressed you saw the offensive numbers jump

Lee was 20/12 last season as a Knick

I didn't say how long he played with Iggy. He plays with Iggy now. No one questions David Lee's offensive skills. The question is why Golden State can stand Lee's lax defensive and the Knicks can't do the same for STAT. Golden State's roster is better suited to handle Lee's bad defense than we are to handle STAT's bad D.

Warriors have also discussed moving

Thompson and Barnes

They've also discussed publicly

Curry and the team's penchant for high turnover rate

I think the notion they're at their wits end over Lee

Is a bit overblown much, by some in this thread

BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????

because Amare is an idiot

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:People forget just how dominant STAT was. When we got him he had just played a full season and literally carried his Suns team into the playoffs. In 09-10 STAT played 82 games 35mpg they went 54-28 they swept the Spurs and went to the WCF's. That was the STAT we were getting at that point. He most certainly was a better player in most opinions at that time.

You mean playing with a point guard

Who dropped 16.5/ppg, 11ast, 51%fg, 43%fg(3pt), same season

You still had to consider the financial risk

He was consulted by Phx doctors what team would ever question their doctors?

Lee makes $15mil Stat makes $23mil

Stat was never really $8-12mil/yr better player than Lee 2008 and beyond

Even if you feel he was the better player

You really need to stop posting if you are gonna keep making such dumb comments. We all know Nash is a great PG, but that doesn't take away from who STAT is as a player when he's healthy. They both made each other look good. STAT was a beast that year in particular as the season progressed:

      PPG   REB  BLK
Feb.  25.3  10.1 1.0
Mar.  27.3  9.9  0.9
Apr.  26.3  9.3  1.4

After all his health issues it was a good performance by STAT getting stronger as the season went along and him playing a full season and 3 rounds of playoff games. Just looking at how he was playing to end the year no one would say that Lee was better than STAT at that time.

Phx continued to roll even when Amare was out in Phx due to injuries twice. Nash impact>>>>>>>>Amare. Phx might would have even went to the finals if Amare hadnt came off that bench against the Spurs which adds to not only is Amare merely a system player he's also dumb.

Sorry Nix will get chin checked

Anytime he says stuff like Amar'e "Carried Them Into The Playoffs"

He should have said he was a huge factor

The last season he played in Phx

They had guys like Grant Hill and J-Rich

Playing at a high level too

I showed him Nash stats and he dismisses them

In efforts to favor Stat, I didn't say Stat wasn't a success factor

But to harvest crops only on Amar'e field

When there are fields of bumper crops all around it

Is negligent and irresponsible agriculture farming

Typical Nix though

and we gave this guy $100mil uninsured