and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????
BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????
David Lee is far more multi-faceted than Amare and also more team-conscious. If Amare isn't scoring off some variant of an isolation play, he is useless. David Lee on the other hand can rebound, is a deft passer and can score in a number of positions, which forces the defense to always be mindful of him.
NardDogNation wrote:BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????
David Lee is far more multi-faceted than Amare and also more team-conscious. If Amare isn't scoring off some variant of an isolation play, he is useless. David Lee on the other hand can rebound, is a deft passer and can score in a number of positions, which forces the defense to always be mindful of him.
You're right Lee is a better player--no argument( funny we traded Lee away to get Amare with a bad knee) but conceptually Amare can play "4" avg 17-18 points grab 7 boards and shoot +53% with similar D. Unless we move Melo to 4--here is our next bunch:
Bargs--will the guy ever play in the NBA again? Does he care? We gave up our 2016 draft for him??????????????????????????
Smith--looked ok until a 180 pound guy almost brought him to his knees with a slight push.
Acy--too much beard and Ken Faried grabs more rebounds in three transitions let alone 30 minutes
Wear--maybe in the future
David Lee is twice the player Stat is. He is ambidextrous and can pass and board in a variety of ways Amare couldn't even dream of. Plus, he evolved into a more diverse offensive player who can play within a system.
Lee is the typical Knicks fan story. The majority hated on him and said he was the most atrocious defender in the world while simultaneously jizzing on themselves about Stat who just happens to be far worse as a defender.
They said Lee was overpaid (typical scenario for the Knicks since we never really showed any interest in retaining him for what may have been less than what he finally got from GS), yet Stat with his production has been a financial albatross. Lee would have been a fine value by comparison.
Lee has a brain on the court. Amare has no BB IQ.
The Knicks have been a fine source of players for other teams. We don't seem to know how to hold on to some of the better ones.
yea.. kinda funny to read this stuff. Maybe we just see if Amare can pick up where he left off? You know... 15ppg, 6rebs, shoot 57% and the Knicks went 16-5? Not to mention now that the Acy experiment is winding down and Amare was in with the starters what happend? 24 minutes he shoots 5-7, 14pts, 6rebs, 3assists and yes SPLAT he was +4
When he's healthy as he is now he's our 2nd best player and easily most eff% scorer. Compain about his defense and lack off passing (both of which are totally blown out of proportion on this board) all you want. Only thing wrong with Amare right now is you cant count on his health. Until then run him out there and the Knicks are a better team.
Splat wrote:David Lee is twice the player Stat is. He is ambidextrous and can pass and board in a variety of ways Amare couldn't even dream of. Plus, he evolved into a more diverse offensive player who can play within a system.Lee is the typical Knicks fan story. The majority hated on him and said he was the most atrocious defender in the world while simultaneously jizzing on themselves about Stat who just happens to be far worse as a defender.
They said Lee was overpaid (typical scenario for the Knicks since we never really showed any interest in retaining him for what may have been less than what he finally got from GS), yet Stat with his production has been a financial albatross. Lee would have been a fine value by comparison.
Lee has a brain on the court. Amare has no BB IQ.
The Knicks have been a fine source of players for other teams. We don't seem to know how to hold on to some of the better ones.
I was one of those guys. Now I'm not. It's like I'm trapped in a just for men's commercial
Amare could work but we need to start him with Dalembert. We can't beat good teams or a team on a hot streak with Amare at center and an undersized acy or equally defensive challenged big man next to him.
David Lee was my favorite Knick since ewing. No one else came close. Like ewing and Lin he was shitted on but I wouldn't expect any less from knicks fans
Splat wrote:David Lee is twice the player Stat is. He is ambidextrous and can pass and board in a variety of ways Amare couldn't even dream of. Plus, he evolved into a more diverse offensive player who can play within a system.Lee is the typical Knicks fan story. The majority hated on him and said he was the most atrocious defender in the world while simultaneously jizzing on themselves about Stat who just happens to be far worse as a defender.
They said Lee was overpaid (typical scenario for the Knicks since we never really showed any interest in retaining him for what may have been less than what he finally got from GS), yet Stat with his production has been a financial albatross. Lee would have been a fine value by comparison.
Lee has a brain on the court. Amare has no BB IQ.
The Knicks have been a fine source of players for other teams. We don't seem to know how to hold on to some of the better ones.
Isiah Thomas was a poor GM but he did at one point have Jamal Crawford David Lee Wilson Chandler Gallo Zach Randolph on the same team 6 years ago. If we made moves to enhance the team--find the right bunch for the rest of the team--that was the foundation of a highly competitive group. We have MUCH more to work with there then we have moving 4ward now. This all relates back to the owner. He does not sit tight so it's almost impossible to strategize or let a team come together as he impatiently wants the next best thing available. He believes just spending money will equal success and I think he may have just done it again.
No one ever said "The Knicks are Back" when David Lee got drafted.
We signed the 100 mil ghost of Amare Past.
Anyone who touted 4 years ago that DLee, who majored in posterization avoidance, was going to be an Allstar, was full of sheehit. He was the king of the empty calorie double double.
Funny, seems like posters who love/want the Knicks to play tough D also seem to have fond memories of DLee.
Life is full of contradictions.
DLee is better on a better team. He was our best player!!!!
6 years ago was 6 years ago. That team was a mess. 23 wins.
We then Starphuched with a running coach who could not make that team work.
That was then, this is now. Briggs, I appreciate your view but our looking in hindsight.
We made mistakes, big ones. Bargs is CAA. Its all good if you trade picks that are turn out in the 20's but that means you have to finish top 10.
And that don't happen.
Do we make that trade again? I dunno. Glad we didn't get Lowrey. Time to rebuild. The pain will begin.
Good sign was Melo signed on for the pain train. Either he is greedy or Phil presented him and his Team with a vision.
A vision we are not privy to!
fishmike wrote:yea.. kinda funny to read this stuff. Maybe we just see if Amare can pick up where he left off? You know... 15ppg, 6rebs, shoot 57% and the Knicks went 16-5? Not to mention now that the Acy experiment is winding down and Amare was in with the starters what happend? 24 minutes he shoots 5-7, 14pts, 6rebs, 3assists and yes SPLAT he was +4When he's healthy as he is now he's our 2nd best player and easily most eff% scorer. Compain about his defense and lack off passing (both of which are totally blown out of proportion on this board) all you want. Only thing wrong with Amare right now is you cant count on his health. Until then run him out there and the Knicks are a better team.
Yep, I do love revisionist history. When Lee was a Knick, people just blasted him for his lack of defense. Now he's no longer a Knick, he is considered a god. meanwhile Amar'e is a Knick and so is blasted for his defense.
Warrior fans hated, HATED Lee up until last season- no idea if they still do, but I think this Lee over Amar'e stuff is just a case of "the grass is always greener..."
smackeddog wrote:fishmike wrote:yea.. kinda funny to read this stuff. Maybe we just see if Amare can pick up where he left off? You know... 15ppg, 6rebs, shoot 57% and the Knicks went 16-5? Not to mention now that the Acy experiment is winding down and Amare was in with the starters what happend? 24 minutes he shoots 5-7, 14pts, 6rebs, 3assists and yes SPLAT he was +4When he's healthy as he is now he's our 2nd best player and easily most eff% scorer. Compain about his defense and lack off passing (both of which are totally blown out of proportion on this board) all you want. Only thing wrong with Amare right now is you cant count on his health. Until then run him out there and the Knicks are a better team.
Yep, I do love revisionist history. When Lee was a Knick, people just blasted him for his lack of defense. Now he's no longer a Knick, he is considered a god. meanwhile Amar'e is a Knick and so is blasted for his defense.
Warrior fans hated, HATED Lee up until last season- no idea if they still do, but I think this Lee over Amar'e stuff is just a case of "the grass is always greener..."
HUGE David Lee fan as Knick. He had a really nice skill set. He was also the worst defensive frontcourt player I can remember. He was an excellent rebounder, passer and along with a lot of nifty moves to finish had a nice jumper as well. Nothing has really changed. He's on a much better team.
The reason he's gone is the plan at the time was to hope stars would come with cap space. We couldnt get Lebron. We couldnt get Joe Johnson for that matter, but Amare came and played great. Then he broke. Time to take what we can get and move on.
BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????
I think taking the dynamic play out of the equation
David Lee is a better PLAYER than Amar'e
We can argue the injuries derailed Amar'e
But when has someone as athletically gifted as him
Stopped well short of using it to it's potential
If D'Antoni inflated the numbers of players he coached
Then Amar'e career hasn't been all that special considering
Heck one could argue an in shape Diaw is a better PLAYER than Amar'e
I hated Lee's lack of defensive presence but it's no worse than Amar'e
With Lee you can put him on any team with any player and he'll be effective
I also like him at the better price tag
F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????
I think taking the dynamic play out of the equation
David Lee is a better PLAYER than Amar'e
We can argue the injuries derailed Amar'e
But when has someone as athletically gifted as him
Stopped well short of using it to it's potential
If D'Antoni inflated the numbers of players he coached
Then Amar'e career hasn't been all that special considering
Heck one could argue an in shape Diaw is a better PLAYER than Amar'e
I hated Lee's lack of defensive presence but it's no worse than Amar'e
With Lee you can put him on any team with any player and he'll be effective
I also like him at the better price tag
Believe
it
or
not
David Lee is 31 (yikes!), turning 32 this season.
Not
sure he's
going
to be effective once his athleticism
starts to
decline.
Also, as much as I liked David Lee, when he was a Knick, he did seem to put up monster stats that had no bearing on the outcome of the game
BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????
David Lee plays next to Andrew Bogut, which helps a lot in D. Also, Lee is always mentioned in trade rumors. Part of it is his contract, bit I think it also stems from his black of defense. The grass isn't always greener in the othe side.
BRIGGS wrote:Splat wrote:David Lee is twice the player Stat is. He is ambidextrous and can pass and board in a variety of ways Amare couldn't even dream of. Plus, he evolved into a more diverse offensive player who can play within a system.Lee is the typical Knicks fan story. The majority hated on him and said he was the most atrocious defender in the world while simultaneously jizzing on themselves about Stat who just happens to be far worse as a defender.
They said Lee was overpaid (typical scenario for the Knicks since we never really showed any interest in retaining him for what may have been less than what he finally got from GS), yet Stat with his production has been a financial albatross. Lee would have been a fine value by comparison.
Lee has a brain on the court. Amare has no BB IQ.
The Knicks have been a fine source of players for other teams. We don't seem to know how to hold on to some of the better ones.
Isiah Thomas was a poor GM but he did at one point have Jamal Crawford David Lee Wilson Chandler Gallo Zach Randolph on the same team 6 years ago. If we made moves to enhance the team--find the right bunch for the rest of the team--that was the foundation of a highly competitive group. We have MUCH more to work with there then we have moving 4ward now. This all relates back to the owner. He does not sit tight so it's almost impossible to strategize or let a team come together as he impatiently wants the next best thing available. He believes just spending money will equal success and I think he may have just done it again.
This is exactly why I thought Isiah was not the problem. It was management / owner who placed too much responsibility on one person. If Isiah was still around, I'm confident that we would've had more healthy young talent than we have now.
I remember a completely different David Lee in NY. I remember someone who would drop back on a defender so he could pad his rebounding stats, ran ahead of teammates for boards. His jazz hands D, someone who almost never came through in the 4th quarter. Bad enough that even MDA routinely sat him when the 4th came around.
Granted he was a good passer and could knock down a jumper, but to me he was the king of empty stats in NY. He has addressed some of his deficiencies over time since he left NY, but other than his rookie season, Im not at all nostalgic for the days when Lee was a Knick.
BRIGGS wrote:Splat wrote:David Lee is twice the player Stat is. He is ambidextrous and can pass and board in a variety of ways Amare couldn't even dream of. Plus, he evolved into a more diverse offensive player who can play within a system.Lee is the typical Knicks fan story. The majority hated on him and said he was the most atrocious defender in the world while simultaneously jizzing on themselves about Stat who just happens to be far worse as a defender.
They said Lee was overpaid (typical scenario for the Knicks since we never really showed any interest in retaining him for what may have been less than what he finally got from GS), yet Stat with his production has been a financial albatross. Lee would have been a fine value by comparison.
Lee has a brain on the court. Amare has no BB IQ.
The Knicks have been a fine source of players for other teams. We don't seem to know how to hold on to some of the better ones.
Isiah Thomas was a poor GM but he did at one point have Jamal Crawford David Lee Wilson Chandler Gallo Zach Randolph on the same team 6 years ago. If we made moves to enhance the team--find the right bunch for the rest of the team--that was the foundation of a highly competitive group. We have MUCH more to work with there then we have moving 4ward now. This all relates back to the owner. He does not sit tight so it's almost impossible to strategize or let a team come together as he impatiently wants the next best thing available. He believes just spending money will equal success and I think he may have just done it again.
why are you trying to defend that train wreck? All we really need is Jerome James and Larry Brown... oh wait, I meant Eddy Curry.
smackeddog wrote:F500ONE wrote:BRIGGS wrote:and not known for his D. Why cant Amare work for us? If we have THJ with Melo and Amare(Dalembart/Calderon) JR Smith back to 6th man etc.. it should work????
I think taking the dynamic play out of the equation
David Lee is a better PLAYER than Amar'e
We can argue the injuries derailed Amar'e
But when has someone as athletically gifted as him
Stopped well short of using it to it's potential
If D'Antoni inflated the numbers of players he coached
Then Amar'e career hasn't been all that special considering
Heck one could argue an in shape Diaw is a better PLAYER than Amar'e
I hated Lee's lack of defensive presence but it's no worse than Amar'e
With Lee you can put him on any team with any player and he'll be effective
I also like him at the better price tag
Believe
it
or
not
David Lee is 31 (yikes!), turning 32 this season.
Not
sure he's
going
to be effective once his athleticism
starts to
decline.
Stop acting like Lee's game was predicated
On playing above the rim and finishing
Lee's game unlike Amar'e does not and did not
Rely 75% on athleticism all the way to age 30
Lee has/had a more well rounded and fluid game
He's a better rebounder, playmaker, better off the dribble
Sets better screens and is an adequate enough scorer
To cancel all of what Amar'e brings except peak athleticism
