Knicks · Couldve dumped Early and Acy for (page 1)

Hamilton and Adrien yesterday. And wed be a better team.

Why give up on Early so....early?

I think he could certainly turn into a rotation player who we have the chance to play for cheap for a couple years.

Adrian and Hamilton are not worth losing even one potential young guy not to mention two. They are both borderline rotation players themselves. What am I missing here? They aren't even that good.

H1AND1 wrote:Why give up on Early so....early?

I think he could certainly turn into a rotation player who we have the chance to play for cheap for a couple years.

Hamilton and Early are the same age. Hamilton's game is NBA ready and has a stronger body more tailor-made for the NBA. I'm giving up nothing but getting a much more advanced player. Same thing with Adrien. He gives us a proven power player inside who has shown over a large number of games that he can consistently score rebound and defend at a highly efficient level. He's a level above Acy who still needs to develop his offensive game.

what is this based on briggs? did phil turn down a trade?

Too early to write off Ckeantony (pun unintended). This is like Hamilton's fourth or fifth team. Why trade for a guy who can be picked up as a cheap free agent. As for Jeff Adrien, undersized power forwards are all over the place. Why trade for the guy when you could probably just sign a better prospect in the d-league outright.

Early looks green but I'm not ready to give up on him yet. If he's not in the rotation, sending him to Westchester might be the way to go. The kid Hamilton's a shooter and a good one at that but fairly one-dimensional, no? I think Early projects to be a better all-around player eventually. And I like Acy better than Adrien to be honest. Younger with more versatility (can Adrien step out and shoot 3s? Can Adrien defend some SFs? Nope but Acy can). Acy had his best game of the pre-season by far the other night in Montreal on both ends. I wanna keep building on that. If something comes along that really makes sense, sure, Early, Larkin, Acy and whoever else is certainly on the table but in the meantime I think we're Ok with these 3 guys -- I'm willing to be patient with them for the time being...Fish made it seem like he's gonna go with STAT off the bench and start Jason or Acy at the 4 depending on matchups. I kinda wanted STAT in the starting lineup but whatever..not a big deal. Phil said the goal is to have Amar'e play 4 sets of 8 mins apiece. That's 32 mins a night. If he can give us more, great, but that's not a bad number...Just ready to kick it off tomorrow. If everything goes right, I feel we can go for more than the 31 wins or whatever that computer program said. We'll see starting tomorrow..

aren't we looking for triangle fits as opposed to raw talent?

BRIGGS wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:Why give up on Early so....early?

I think he could certainly turn into a rotation player who we have the chance to play for cheap for a couple years.

Hamilton and Early are the same age. Hamilton's game is NBA ready and has a stronger body more tailor-made for the NBA. I'm giving up nothing but getting a much more advanced player. Same thing with Adrien. He gives us a proven power player inside who has shown over a large number of games that he can consistently score rebound and defend at a highly efficient level. He's a level above Acy who still needs to develop his offensive game.

Adrien is a 6'7" power forward who's never averaged more than 18 mpg, and that was only 1 season. The rest he barely played. In what world is that proven?! Second of all, he's a tweener PF. There are plenty of tweener PF's on the market for basically nothing year in year out. In fact, we have one already: Acy! Sorry but I don't see the huge upgrade here. In anything Acy still has some upside which Adrien doesn't at 28 years old. Sorry man, don't see this the same way at all.

Hamilton, again, is a 2 guard who brings little to nothing besides a nice stroke. Early has the chance to be a serviceable 2 way wing which is a position that is much harder to fill these days as generic guards are al over the place for cheap. My question: If Hamilton is at best a back up grade guard. I don't see that as our missing piece. If having that was so important why'd we jettison Wayne Ellington?

I'd rather give the minutes to Shump and see if Fisher can develop the guy. One last shot. The bottom line: We aren't contending this year, giving up _any_ young player with potential for journeymen types who are a dime a dozen like adrien and Hamilton is a huge mistake.

H1AND1 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:Why give up on Early so....early?

I think he could certainly turn into a rotation player who we have the chance to play for cheap for a couple years.

Hamilton and Early are the same age. Hamilton's game is NBA ready and has a stronger body more tailor-made for the NBA. I'm giving up nothing but getting a much more advanced player. Same thing with Adrien. He gives us a proven power player inside who has shown over a large number of games that he can consistently score rebound and defend at a highly efficient level. He's a level above Acy who still needs to develop his offensive game.

Adrien is a 6'7" power forward who's never averaged more than 18 mpg, and that was only 1 season. The rest he barely played. In what world is that proven?! Second of all, he's a tweener PF. There are plenty of tweener PF's on the market for basically nothing year in year out. In fact, we have one already: Acy! Sorry but I don't see the huge upgrade here. In anything Acy still has some upside which Adrien doesn't at 28 years old. Sorry man, don't see this the same way at all.

Hamilton, again, is a 2 guard who brings little to nothing besides a nice stroke. Early has the chance to be a serviceable 2 way wing which is a position that is much harder to fill these days as generic guards are al over the place for cheap. My question: If Hamilton is at best a back up grade guard. I don't see that as our missing piece. If having that was so important why'd we jettison Wayne Ellington?

I'd rather give the minutes to Shump and see if Fisher can develop the guy. One last shot. The bottom line: We aren't contending this year, giving up _any_ young player with potential for journeymen types who are a dime a dozen like adrien and Hamilton is a huge mistake.

HIP HIP HOORAY!

How about Early and Larkin to Houston for Robert Covington and Isaiah Canaan? Or Early and a future 2 (as of the other day, I read that Morey's looking to consolidate his roster somewhat).

Thinking -- Covington's a better prospect than Early imo, better ability and he's ahead of Early in terms of being NBA ready. Even though I'm a Larkin fan, I think I like Canaan a little better. I actually wanted Canaan in the draft over Hardaway Jr....The Rockets were on the verge of waiving Covington a few days ago but it looks like Morey's still holding out for a trade. Even though Canaan looked real good in summer league and made great strides toward the end of preseason for the Rockets, he's still not guaranteed any PT in Houston, not even guaranteed a roster spot for that matter...I hesitate on including cash in this deal but I'd offer either combination--Early/future 2 or Early/Larkin, I'd do. I'd first see if I could do the deal for either Early or Larkin by themselves...I think this deal makes us better.

-----------------------------------

Another thing -- how do you guys feel about Nicolas Batum? Unrestricted FA in 2016. We're not getting Kevin Durant, let's keep it real. And the rest of the FAs in 2015 and 2016 aren't really doing it for me....Thinking about Batum though--I think this guy's a legit possibility. He's a damn good player on both sides of the ball and is playoff battle tested yet hasn't put up real gaudy numbers yet. His numbers are solid across the board but nothing Earth-shattering meaning another season of 13-14 ppg may not equal a max contract. I think he could be had for less than that. When you think back to how Jordan had Pippen to play Robin to his Batman, Batum wouldn't be a bad Robin over here for Melo. I know a lot of people wouldn't be happy with him as a FA signing, they'd want more of a household name and I get that, but when you really think about this guy and think about what he could be with more responsibility, he's not a bad option...Reminds me of Scottie Pippen a lot...We bring this guy in and give him 35 mins and a green light to put up 20+ shots a night, I think we're looking at a surefire all-star in the East year after year for the foreseeable future. Back in the day at his height, Pippen took between 15-18+ shots per game. Batum only took 10 shots a game last year by comparison. What kinda production are we looking at if he put up even 6, 7 more shot a game? Could that Portland system be holding him back? If we could hold off another year in FA until 2016, max out the draft somehow next summer (I like Briggs' plan of targeting 2 bigs in the next draft, a PF and C, which would require acquiring another 1st round pick somehow), then we make several quality low-level additions along the way to fortify (we did this year), and finally attempt to lure Batum here as a FA in 2016 (say he gets a contract similar to what Chandler Parsons just got)---honestly that wouldn't be terrible. I think that could end up being a nice team. It's either something like this or we wind up using the cap space to take large salaries back in trades because honestly, I'm really not feeling any of these other FAs over the next couple of years...Only thing I question -- Batum seems kinda quiet -- is he a NY guy? Curious what you guys think..

Finestrg wrote:How about Early and Larkin to Houston for Robert Covington and Isaiah Canaan? Or Early and a future 2 (as of the other day, I read that Morey's looking to consolidate his roster somewhat).

Thinking -- Covington's a better prospect than Early imo, better ability and he's ahead of Early in terms of being NBA ready. Even though I'm a Larkin fan, I think I like Canaan a little better. I actually wanted Canaan in the draft over Hardaway Jr....The Rockets were on the verge of waiving Covington a few days ago but it looks like Morey's still holding out for a trade. Even though Canaan looked real good in summer league and made great strides toward the end of preseason for the Rockets, he's still not guaranteed any PT in Houston, not even guaranteed a roster spot for that matter...I hesitate on including cash in this deal but I'd offer either combination--Early/future 2 or Early/Larkin, I'd do. I'd first see if I could do the deal for either Early or Larkin by themselves...I think this deal makes us better.

-----------------------------------

Another thing -- how do you guys feel about Nicolas Batum? Unrestricted FA in 2016. We're not getting Kevin Durant, let's keep it real. And the rest of the FAs in 2015 and 2016 aren't really doing it for me....Thinking about Batum though--I think this guy's a legit possibility. He's a damn good player on both sides of the ball and is playoff battle tested yet hasn't put up real gaudy numbers yet. His numbers are solid across the board but nothing Earth-shattering meaning another season of 13-14 ppg may not equal a max contract. I think he could be had for less than that. When you think back to how Jordan had Pippen to play Robin to his Batman, Batum wouldn't be a bad Robin over here for Melo. I know a lot of people wouldn't be happy with him as a FA signing, they'd want more of a household name and I get that, but when you really think about this guy and think about what he could be with more responsibility, he's not a bad option...Reminds me of Scottie Pippen a lot...We bring this guy in and give him 35 mins and a green light to put up 20+ shots a night, I think we're looking at a surefire all-star in the East year after year for the foreseeable future. Back in the day at his height, Pippen took between 15-18+ shots per game. Batum only took 10 shots a game last year by comparison. What kinda production are we looking at if he put up even 6, 7 more shot a game? Could that Portland system be holding him back? If we could hold off another year in FA until 2016, max out the draft somehow next summer (I like Briggs' plan of targeting 2 bigs in the next draft, a PF and C, which would require acquiring another 1st round pick somehow), then we make several quality low-level additions along the way to fortify (we did this year), and finally attempt to lure Batum here as a FA in 2016 (say he gets a contract similar to what Chandler Parsons just got)---honestly that wouldn't be terrible. I think that could end up being a nice team. It's either something like this or we wind up using the cap space to take large salaries back in trades because honestly, I'm really not feeling any of these other FAs over the next couple of years...Only thing I question -- Batum seems kinda quiet -- is he a NY guy? Curious what you guys think..

Free agency looks much better in 2016 than it does it 2015. Id rather set up for two high picks in the draft by using that cap space--find our own C--maybe dabble into FA or S+T for the *right * fit then go all out for KD etc.. in 2016

This trade is a terrible idea

Durant is not coming to play PF and get mauled every night when he can go home to DC

Maybe we should forget about those older big name guys and draft and go after young players in their prime. Not easy but can be done.

Don't paint ourselves into a corner again. I don't want to hear Phil talk about guys he's targeting like Gasol. The media will run with it. He will pigeon hole himself than when that player doesn't come there will be astronomical unwanted backlash

H1AND1 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:Why give up on Early so....early?

I think he could certainly turn into a rotation player who we have the chance to play for cheap for a couple years.

Hamilton and Early are the same age. Hamilton's game is NBA ready and has a stronger body more tailor-made for the NBA. I'm giving up nothing but getting a much more advanced player. Same thing with Adrien. He gives us a proven power player inside who has shown over a large number of games that he can consistently score rebound and defend at a highly efficient level. He's a level above Acy who still needs to develop his offensive game.

Adrien is a 6'7" power forward who's never averaged more than 18 mpg, and that was only 1 season. The rest he barely played. In what world is that proven?! Second of all, he's a tweener PF. There are plenty of tweener PF's on the market for basically nothing year in year out. In fact, we have one already: Acy! Sorry but I don't see the huge upgrade here. In anything Acy still has some upside which Adrien doesn't at 28 years old. Sorry man, don't see this the same way at all.

Hamilton, again, is a 2 guard who brings little to nothing besides a nice stroke. Early has the chance to be a serviceable 2 way wing which is a position that is much harder to fill these days as generic guards are al over the place for cheap. My question: If Hamilton is at best a back up grade guard. I don't see that as our missing piece. If having that was so important why'd we jettison Wayne Ellington?

I'd rather give the minutes to Shump and see if Fisher can develop the guy. One last shot. The bottom line: We aren't contending this year, giving up _any_ young player with potential for journeymen types who are a dime a dozen like adrien and Hamilton is a huge mistake.

I thought Adrien played like a version of Elton Brand for the last 30 games last year. Hes very tough physically and is efficient in his play. Hes going to give you heavy rebounds score at a 50% clip block shots play great D in the interior(where we need it) and overall toughness. To me the difference between winning and losing in the east will be close---the right role players might be a HUGE difference.

gunsnewing wrote:This is a terrible idea

Durant is not coming to play PF and get mauled every night when he can go home to DC

Maybe we should forget about those older big name guys and draft and go after young players in their prime. Not easy but can be done.

Don't paint ourselves into a corner again. I don't want to hear Phil talk about guys he's targeting like Gasol. The media will run with it. He will pigeon hole himself than when that player doesn't come there will be astronomical unwanted backlash

you seem very fragile and vulnerable to Free agent failure syndrom.............

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:How about Early and Larkin to Houston for Robert Covington and Isaiah Canaan? Or Early and a future 2 (as of the other day, I read that Morey's looking to consolidate his roster somewhat).

Thinking -- Covington's a better prospect than Early imo, better ability and he's ahead of Early in terms of being NBA ready. Even though I'm a Larkin fan, I think I like Canaan a little better. I actually wanted Canaan in the draft over Hardaway Jr....The Rockets were on the verge of waiving Covington a few days ago but it looks like Morey's still holding out for a trade. Even though Canaan looked real good in summer league and made great strides toward the end of preseason for the Rockets, he's still not guaranteed any PT in Houston, not even guaranteed a roster spot for that matter...I hesitate on including cash in this deal but I'd offer either combination--Early/future 2 or Early/Larkin, I'd do. I'd first see if I could do the deal for either Early or Larkin by themselves...I think this deal makes us better.

-----------------------------------

Another thing -- how do you guys feel about Nicolas Batum? Unrestricted FA in 2016. We're not getting Kevin Durant, let's keep it real. And the rest of the FAs in 2015 and 2016 aren't really doing it for me....Thinking about Batum though--I think this guy's a legit possibility. He's a damn good player on both sides of the ball and is playoff battle tested yet hasn't put up real gaudy numbers yet. His numbers are solid across the board but nothing Earth-shattering meaning another season of 13-14 ppg may not equal a max contract. I think he could be had for less than that. When you think back to how Jordan had Pippen to play Robin to his Batman, Batum wouldn't be a bad Robin over here for Melo. I know a lot of people wouldn't be happy with him as a FA signing, they'd want more of a household name and I get that, but when you really think about this guy and think about what he could be with more responsibility, he's not a bad option...Reminds me of Scottie Pippen a lot...We bring this guy in and give him 35 mins and a green light to put up 20+ shots a night, I think we're looking at a surefire all-star in the East year after year for the foreseeable future. Back in the day at his height, Pippen took between 15-18+ shots per game. Batum only took 10 shots a game last year by comparison. What kinda production are we looking at if he put up even 6, 7 more shot a game? Could that Portland system be holding him back? If we could hold off another year in FA until 2016, max out the draft somehow next summer (I like Briggs' plan of targeting 2 bigs in the next draft, a PF and C, which would require acquiring another 1st round pick somehow), then we make several quality low-level additions along the way to fortify (we did this year), and finally attempt to lure Batum here as a FA in 2016 (say he gets a contract similar to what Chandler Parsons just got)---honestly that wouldn't be terrible. I think that could end up being a nice team. It's either something like this or we wind up using the cap space to take large salaries back in trades because honestly, I'm really not feeling any of these other FAs over the next couple of years...Only thing I question -- Batum seems kinda quiet -- is he a NY guy? Curious what you guys think..

Free agency looks much better in 2016 than it does it 2015. Id rather set up for two high picks in the draft by using that cap space--find our own C--maybe dabble into FA or S+T for the *right * fit then go all out for KD etc.. in 2016

Explain what you mean when you say "I'd rather set up for two high picks in the draft by using that cap space." Not following that part.

Finestrg wrote:How about Early and Larkin to Houston for Robert Covington and Isaiah Canaan? Or Early and a future 2 (as of the other day, I read that Morey's looking to consolidate his roster somewhat).

Thinking -- Covington's a better prospect than Early imo, better ability and he's ahead of Early in terms of being NBA ready. Even though I'm a Larkin fan, I think I like Canaan a little better. I actually wanted Canaan in the draft over Hardaway Jr....The Rockets were on the verge of waiving Covington a few days ago but it looks like Morey's still holding out for a trade. Even though Canaan looked real good in summer league and made great strides toward the end of preseason for the Rockets, he's still not guaranteed any PT in Houston, not even guaranteed a roster spot for that matter...I hesitate on including cash in this deal but I'd offer either combination--Early/future 2 or Early/Larkin, I'd do. I'd first see if I could do the deal for either Early or Larkin by themselves...I think this deal makes us better.

-----------------------------------

Another thing -- how do you guys feel about Nicolas Batum? Unrestricted FA in 2016. We're not getting Kevin Durant, let's keep it real. And the rest of the FAs in 2015 and 2016 aren't really doing it for me....Thinking about Batum though--I think this guy's a legit possibility. He's a damn good player on both sides of the ball and is playoff battle tested yet hasn't put up real gaudy numbers yet. His numbers are solid across the board but nothing Earth-shattering meaning another season of 13-14 ppg may not equal a max contract. I think he could be had for less than that. When you think back to how Jordan had Pippen to play Robin to his Batman, Batum wouldn't be a bad Robin over here for Melo. I know a lot of people wouldn't be happy with him as a FA signing, they'd want more of a household name and I get that, but when you really think about this guy and think about what he could be with more responsibility, he's not a bad option...Reminds me of Scottie Pippen a lot...We bring this guy in and give him 35 mins and a green light to put up 20+ shots a night, I think we're looking at a surefire all-star in the East year after year for the foreseeable future. Back in the day at his height, Pippen took between 15-18+ shots per game. Batum only took 10 shots a game last year by comparison. What kinda production are we looking at if he put up even 6, 7 more shot a game? Could that Portland system be holding him back? If we could hold off another year in FA until 2016, max out the draft somehow next summer (I like Briggs' plan of targeting 2 bigs in the next draft, a PF and C, which would require acquiring another 1st round pick somehow), then we make several quality low-level additions along the way to fortify (we did this year), and finally attempt to lure Batum here as a FA in 2016 (say he gets a contract similar to what Chandler Parsons just got)---honestly that wouldn't be terrible. I think that could end up being a nice team. It's either something like this or we wind up using the cap space to take large salaries back in trades because honestly, I'm really not feeling any of these other FAs over the next couple of years...Only thing I question -- Batum seems kinda quiet -- is he a NY guy? Curious what you guys think..

I like Batum. Versatile wing who doesn't need the ball to thrive and can create on offense for himself and others.