Knicks · The guy who makes the most sense in next years FA is Monroe (page 2)

H1AND1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we trade Tim Jr (plus some other stuff) for Greg Monroe- his dad is even a coach on that team.

Monroe cannot be traded.

He was extended a qualifying offer (or whatever its called when a FA accepts a 1 year deal to get to be an unrestricted FA in one years time) and once you accept that offer you cant get dealt.

I seem to remember reading he can be faded, but he has a right of refusal

smackeddog wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we trade Tim Jr (plus some other stuff) for Greg Monroe- his dad is even a coach on that team.

Monroe cannot be traded.

He was extended a qualifying offer (or whatever its called when a FA accepts a 1 year deal to get to be an unrestricted FA in one years time) and once you accept that offer you cant get dealt.

I seem to remember reading he can be faded, but he has a right of refusal

I just looked it up and it appears as if you're right! Thanks! I thought it barred all trade possibilites. Interesting.

Utah has over $40M tied up into Hayward, Burks, and Favors. They have Gobert so I doubt they will tie another chunk of change into a player that doesn't fit their new system.

yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry but I would rather have Enes Kanter possibly at a cheaper price. Kanter has a back to the basket game and a mid range shot. He is not the passer Monroe is but this system will make him better. If I am going after a defensive sieve I might as well get the younger, possibly cheaper, and arguably better player.

Utah has over $40M tied up into Hayward, Burks, and Favors. They have Gobert so I doubt they will tie another chunk of change into a player that doesn't fit their new system.

Unless you pay Kanter the max you are not getting him hes a UFA. Utah pays its FA.

BRIGGS wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry but I would rather have Enes Kanter possibly at a cheaper price. Kanter has a back to the basket game and a mid range shot. He is not the passer Monroe is but this system will make him better. If I am going after a defensive sieve I might as well get the younger, possibly cheaper, and arguably better player.

Utah has over $40M tied up into Hayward, Burks, and Favors. They have Gobert so I doubt they will tie another chunk of change into a player that doesn't fit their new system.

Unless you pay Kanter the max you are not getting him hes a UFA. Utah pays its FA.

H1AND1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we trade Tim Jr (plus some other stuff) for Greg Monroe- his dad is even a coach on that team.

Monroe cannot be traded.

He was extended a qualifying offer (or whatever its called when a FA accepts a 1 year deal to get to be an unrestricted FA in one years time) and once you accept that offer you cant get dealt.

I seem to remember reading he can be faded, but he has a right of refusal

I just looked it up and it appears as if you're right! Thanks! I thought it barred all trade possibilites. Interesting.

This cba is a nightmare to keep up with! Monroe having a veto decreases his trade value too- he can pretty much say he'll only go to a certain team.

Does anyone know what his cap hold would be in the offseason if we traded for him?

H1AND1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we trade Tim Jr (plus some other stuff) for Greg Monroe- his dad is even a coach on that team.

Monroe cannot be traded.

He was extended a qualifying offer (or whatever its called when a FA accepts a 1 year deal to get to be an unrestricted FA in one years time) and once you accept that offer you cant get dealt.

I seem to remember reading he can be faded, but he has a right of refusal

I just looked it up and it appears as if you're right! Thanks! I thought it barred all trade possibilites. Interesting.

Yeah just looked it up too --

Per Larry Coon's Salary cap FAQ:

There are two additional circumstances in which a trade requires the player's consent:

When the player is playing under a one-year contract (excluding any option year) and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season. This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team's qualifying offer for their fifth season. When the player consents to such a trade, his Larry Bird/Early Bird rights are not traded with him, and instead becomes a Non-Bird free agent.

After thinking about it, I think Smack makes a good point. Maybe that is the way to go---trade for this guy now and in the process inherit a much smaller cap hold that benefits us this summer. Bottom line, if this would give us more money to spend in FA, then yeah, I would consider that favorable. How could you not? If we can go trade for Monroe now, then sign at least one top FA (or multiple good ones) this summer or the following summer, + execute on a 1st round pick--that definitely feels like the way to go. To me, that's worth giving up on THJ for -- not a favorite of mine anyway.

First off -- do I have this right? Not sure if I'm understanding it correctly. Say Monroe gets traded here this season---when does the new large contract he's expected to sign kick in and get added to next season's cap? After we have a chance to sign other FAs? Those salaries will be added first and then we can exceed the cap to resign Monroe? Not sure I'm following this. Either Smack, Hand or someone else -- gimmie a quick hypothetical on how this benefits us regarding getting Monroe now, then having enough money left over for another bonafide FA. Just wanna make sure I understand it properly. And another thing -- if we trade for him now, he's a UFA this summer, right? What prevents another team from swooping in and signing him? Nothing I believe, right? Big chance we'd be taking.. So how does that factor in to what smackeddog talked about earlier (the whole kill two birds with one stone thing). Thanks!

Second -- if we can do this like I'm picturing, who's the 3rd big gun we target to slide in next to Melo and Monroe? Who becomes the best fit -- Rondo (PG upgrade)? Millsap (with Monroe at the 5 and Melo at the 4)? DeAndre Jordan (with Monroe at the 4 and Melo at the 3)? I still like Nick Batum a lot as a Scottie Pippen-type of addition in 2016, esp. if guys like Shump, THJ, JR and Early aren't retained. I think Batum could be a real nice do-it-all type of player here, a guy that plays both sides of the ball, quality passer/shooter, heady, and I think he could easily increase his scoring over what he's been doing out in Portland with a few more shots at the basket per game.

Third -- Shumpert's QO was picked up, right? So same situation as Monroe? Would the same benefit apply to Shump -- smaller cap hold that grants up more flexibility regarding the cap in the offseason?

yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry but I would rather have Enes Kanter possibly at a cheaper price. Kanter has a back to the basket game and a mid range shot. He is not the passer Monroe is but this system will make him better. If I am going after a defensive sieve I might as well get the younger, possibly cheaper, and arguably better player.

Utah has over $40M tied up into Hayward, Burks, and Favors. They have Gobert so I doubt they will tie another chunk of change into a player that doesn't fit their new system.

This

I see Monroe has a 1.5 version of A.Stoudemire

Finestrg wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we trade Tim Jr (plus some other stuff) for Greg Monroe- his dad is even a coach on that team.

Monroe cannot be traded.

He was extended a qualifying offer (or whatever its called when a FA accepts a 1 year deal to get to be an unrestricted FA in one years time) and once you accept that offer you cant get dealt.

I seem to remember reading he can be faded, but he has a right of refusal

I just looked it up and it appears as if you're right! Thanks! I thought it barred all trade possibilites. Interesting.

Yeah just looked it up too --

Per Larry Coon's Salary cap FAQ:

There are two additional circumstances in which a trade requires the player's consent:

When the player is playing under a one-year contract (excluding any option year) and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season. This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team's qualifying offer for their fifth season. When the player consents to such a trade, his Larry Bird/Early Bird rights are not traded with him, and instead becomes a Non-Bird free agent.

After thinking about it, I think Smack makes a good point. Maybe that is the way to go---trade for this guy now and in the process inherit a much smaller cap hold that benefits us this summer. Bottom line, if this would give us more money to spend in FA, then yeah, I would consider that favorable. How could you not? If we can go trade for Monroe now, then sign at least one top FA (or multiple good ones) this summer or the following summer, + execute on a 1st round pick--that definitely feels like the way to go. To me, that's worth giving up on THJ for -- not a favorite of mine anyway.

First off -- do I have this right? Not sure if I'm understanding it correctly. Say Monroe gets traded here this season---when does the new large contract he's expected to sign kick in and get added to next season's cap? After we have a chance to sign other FAs? Those salaries will be added first and then we can exceed the cap to resign Monroe? Not sure I'm following this. Either Smack, Hand or someone else -- gimmie a quick hypothetical on how this benefits us regarding getting Monroe now, then having enough money left over for another bonafide FA. Just wanna make sure I understand it properly. Thanks!

Second -- if we can do this like I'm picturing, who's the 3rd big gun we target to slide in next to Melo and Monroe? Who becomes the best fit -- Rondo (PG upgrade)? Millsap (with Monroe at the 5 and Melo at the 4)? DeAndre Jordan (with Monroe at the 4 and Melo at the 3)? I still like Nick Batum a lot as a Scottie Pippen-type of addition in 2016, esp. if guys like Shump, THJ, JR and Early aren't retained. I think Batum could be a real nice do-it-all type of player here, a guy that plays both sides of the ball, quality passer/shooter, heady, and I think he could increase his scoring over what he's been doing in Portland with a few more shots at the basket per game.

Third -- Shumpert's QO was picked up, right? So same situation as Monroe? Would the same benefit apply to Shump -- smaller cap hold that grants up more flexibility regarding the cap in the offseason?

Wait a minute- if what you posted is true, wouldn't that mean if we did trade for Monroe, we wouldn't get his Bird rights, in which case the cap hold advantage wouldn't apply? Argh! I hate this cba- it's too complicated!

smackeddog wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we trade Tim Jr (plus some other stuff) for Greg Monroe- his dad is even a coach on that team.

Monroe cannot be traded.

He was extended a qualifying offer (or whatever its called when a FA accepts a 1 year deal to get to be an unrestricted FA in one years time) and once you accept that offer you cant get dealt.

I seem to remember reading he can be faded, but he has a right of refusal

I just looked it up and it appears as if you're right! Thanks! I thought it barred all trade possibilites. Interesting.

Yeah just looked it up too --

Per Larry Coon's Salary cap FAQ:

There are two additional circumstances in which a trade requires the player's consent:

When the player is playing under a one-year contract (excluding any option year) and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season. This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team's qualifying offer for their fifth season. When the player consents to such a trade, his Larry Bird/Early Bird rights are not traded with him, and instead becomes a Non-Bird free agent.

After thinking about it, I think Smack makes a good point. Maybe that is the way to go---trade for this guy now and in the process inherit a much smaller cap hold that benefits us this summer. Bottom line, if this would give us more money to spend in FA, then yeah, I would consider that favorable. How could you not? If we can go trade for Monroe now, then sign at least one top FA (or multiple good ones) this summer or the following summer, + execute on a 1st round pick--that definitely feels like the way to go. To me, that's worth giving up on THJ for -- not a favorite of mine anyway.

First off -- do I have this right? Not sure if I'm understanding it correctly. Say Monroe gets traded here this season---when does the new large contract he's expected to sign kick in and get added to next season's cap? After we have a chance to sign other FAs? Those salaries will be added first and then we can exceed the cap to resign Monroe? Not sure I'm following this. Either Smack, Hand or someone else -- gimmie a quick hypothetical on how this benefits us regarding getting Monroe now, then having enough money left over for another bonafide FA. Just wanna make sure I understand it properly. Thanks!

Second -- if we can do this like I'm picturing, who's the 3rd big gun we target to slide in next to Melo and Monroe? Who becomes the best fit -- Rondo (PG upgrade)? Millsap (with Monroe at the 5 and Melo at the 4)? DeAndre Jordan (with Monroe at the 4 and Melo at the 3)? I still like Nick Batum a lot as a Scottie Pippen-type of addition in 2016, esp. if guys like Shump, THJ, JR and Early aren't retained. I think Batum could be a real nice do-it-all type of player here, a guy that plays both sides of the ball, quality passer/shooter, heady, and I think he could increase his scoring over what he's been doing in Portland with a few more shots at the basket per game.

Third -- Shumpert's QO was picked up, right? So same situation as Monroe? Would the same benefit apply to Shump -- smaller cap hold that grants up more flexibility regarding the cap in the offseason?

Wait a minute- if what you posted is true, wouldn't that mean if we did trade for Monroe, we wouldn't get his Bird rights, in which case the cap hold advantage wouldn't apply? Argh! I hate this cba- it's too complicated!

Yeah, I find it confusing. Not sure we can do what you originally suggested bro. If we can, phenomenal -- it'd be the way to go. Ultimate loophole. Not sure we can though.

BRIGGS wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry but I would rather have Enes Kanter possibly at a cheaper price. Kanter has a back to the basket game and a mid range shot. He is not the passer Monroe is but this system will make him better. If I am going after a defensive sieve I might as well get the younger, possibly cheaper, and arguably better player.

Utah has over $40M tied up into Hayward, Burks, and Favors. They have Gobert so I doubt they will tie another chunk of change into a player that doesn't fit their new system.

Unless you pay Kanter the max you are not getting him hes a UFA. Utah pays its FA.

Enes Kanter MAX??? not even close.

Swishfm3 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry but I would rather have Enes Kanter possibly at a cheaper price. Kanter has a back to the basket game and a mid range shot. He is not the passer Monroe is but this system will make him better. If I am going after a defensive sieve I might as well get the younger, possibly cheaper, and arguably better player.

Utah has over $40M tied up into Hayward, Burks, and Favors. They have Gobert so I doubt they will tie another chunk of change into a player that doesn't fit their new system.

This

I see Monroe has a 1.5 version of A.Stoudemire

fishmike wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry but I would rather have Enes Kanter possibly at a cheaper price. Kanter has a back to the basket game and a mid range shot. He is not the passer Monroe is but this system will make him better. If I am going after a defensive sieve I might as well get the younger, possibly cheaper, and arguably better player.

Utah has over $40M tied up into Hayward, Burks, and Favors. They have Gobert so I doubt they will tie another chunk of change into a player that doesn't fit their new system.

This

I see Monroe has a 1.5 version of A.Stoudemire

Monroe is the anti Amare. Great saavy and passing.

But same great defense

Monroe has more of an old school game than most PFs, a few analysts said that could hurt him in his hopes of getting a max (stretch PFs seem to be more in fashion these days)

fishmike wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I am sorry but I would rather have Enes Kanter possibly at a cheaper price. Kanter has a back to the basket game and a mid range shot. He is not the passer Monroe is but this system will make him better. If I am going after a defensive sieve I might as well get the younger, possibly cheaper, and arguably better player.

Utah has over $40M tied up into Hayward, Burks, and Favors. They have Gobert so I doubt they will tie another chunk of change into a player that doesn't fit their new system.

This

I see Monroe has a 1.5 version of A.Stoudemire

Monroe is the anti Amare. Great saavy and passing.

Monroe is a young Al Jefferson with better passing. Monroe would be a nice pick up but his jumper is suspect. EVeryone knows his defense sucks but there are probably two quality PFs that can defend and score; Anthony Davis and Derrick Favors. Besides those two you just hope they can play passable team defense and do everything else better than avg. Hopefully a player like Kanter and even Monroe are young enough to be taught how to play D.

EnySpree wrote:I don't like his game. Knicks are not winning anything with Monroe on the team.

I tend to agree. I know he had a monster game last night against us (20-something pts, 18 rebs) but it didn't feel that way at all. His shot selection was better than Josh Smith's (wow was that guy terrible--holy shit. WTF happened to him? I thought Josh Smith was downright AWFUL out there) but he still missed a lot of shots around the rim and he doesn't look fully engaged. Not sure if this is one of those guys that goes 100% or if he really cares 100%. Hard to explain -- just seems a little too aloof out there. One of those guys that'll have you scratching your head, asking why he can't give you more than what he does. Anyone else feel this way?

I have a funny feeling he's our guy though. This is the guy Phil's gonna sign or trade for. I won't really blame Phil either -- I agree with Briggs--he probably is our best, most logical target...He's not terrible--I agree with Ned--he's productive but it's a real quiet productive. Nowhere near as good a player as Chris Bosh for example. Bosh got 5 yrs/$118mm ($23.6mm avg/season). Not sure what Monroe's max would be, I'm sure it's less than that, but just to compare, he can't get anywhere close to that. He's half the player Bosh is, therefore I feel he's worth half that amount -- maybe something like 5 yrs/$60mm. That probably won't get it done though...I betcha we wind up giving this guy $15-16mm+ a season to come play here. Not sure he and Melo together along with whatever else we can come up with to fill around those 2 would ever be good enough. No guarantee we even get Monroe -- maybe someone comes along and outbids us..

If we do go after this guy, here's hoping we can get him to defer a little money in either yr 1 or yr 2 (summer of 2016). I've seen guy's structure their contracts like this in order to help their team. Melo did it--I wish he made a little more of a concession but he made one. That could make a difference in terms of being able to get some more upper-tier talent to surround these two guys with. Without that, Melo/Monroe won't be nearly enough I'm afraid.

Guns said it on one of these threads -- part of me really feels like we should've let Melo go and started over with a clean slate. It's gonna be real hard to put the proper talent around this guy to win it all. Phil's definitely got his work cut out for him.

I just wonder what the plan could be -- Melo, Monroe, then what?

With that said, i have no idea what the new cap will be (for some reason im thinking 80mill). I dont think a core 3 of melo, rondo and monroe makes us a contender.

PG Rondo
SG THJ
SF Melo
PF ( )
C Monroe
----
PG Calderon
SG
SF
PF Acy
C

thats very blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

callmened wrote:Monroe at the half has 8pts 9rebs - on pace for 16pts 18rebs. would anyone notice? is he an impact player? NOPE but hes productive. hell get the max contract but dude isnt the type to take a team to the next level

Thats why I wouldn't want him as our main/only-ish signing. Wouldn't mind him as part of two or three signings, but now I'm thinking thats not possible if his bird rights can't be traded.