Knicks · Is Melo Messing Up The Offense? (page 2)

Splat wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Splat wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:It's a good thing we locked him up for 5yrs at

ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FOUR MILLIONS DOLLARS

EIGHTY THOUSAND DOLLARS PER QUARTER

$75,609 per quarter

$6,300 per minute

$105 per second

on or off the court

This is how professional athletes are paid. The NBA salaries will likely only increase in the new CBA. Additionally, the Players Association told the fools "taking less" in tax free states to stop. If you are not happy with how the players are paid, it is probably best to find a new hobby because the price tags are gonna go up.

Yeah, heard it all before about NBA price tags, but Melo isn't worth what he is paid relative to other talents. Sure, some donkey hits the jackpot every year when a GM foolishly pays up, but we're talking about Max for a one-dimensional player. So, those numbers are a fine reminder of what you're getting for your money. All the same, if you don't like those numbers, its just facts, not fiction, so it goes both ways amigo.

So if Monroe or Gasol are pursued

To save us from Melo

Breakdown how much they should be paid

Quarter-Minute-Second

Shumpert has been a different player this year, and much more confident on offense. Not always making the best decisions, but he is moving without the ball and seems less constrained than last year. In my mind he is taking advantage of an offense that rewards movement.

On the other hand, for the most part THJ has not shown the movement on offense that I think Fisher wants. I have seen him pass the ball off and just back up and wait behind the 3PT line to get the ball back, while not being concerned about cutting to the basket.

Anthony will get his shots if he buys into the system and realizes that he can get his points if he is unselfish and limits the ISO ball. If he sets himself up for good shots, I don't think Fisher will be unhappy. He took some terrible shots yesterday, although he did have 8 assists, which you have to give him credit for. It is early, but yesterday's game put him over 4 APG, something I don't think he has ever done in a season. He has to accept that his PPG will go down a bit if the entire team is playing well.

He also has to understand that his unselfishness will set a standard for the rest of his teammates to follow.

WaltLongmire wrote:Don't see why Anthony can benefit from this offense.

Shumpert has been a different player this year, and much more confident on offense. Not always making the best decisions, but he is moving without the ball and seems less constrained than last year. In my mind he is taking advantage of an offense that rewards movement.

On the other hand, for the most part THJ has not shown the movement on offense that I think Fisher wants. I have seen him pass the ball off and just back up and wait behind the 3PT line to get the ball back, while not being concerned about cutting to the basket.

Anthony will get his shots if he buys into the system and realizes that he can get his points if he is unselfish and limits the ISO ball. If he sets himself up for good shots, I don't think Fisher will be unhappy. He took some terrible shots yesterday, although he did have 8 assists, which you have to give him credit for. It is early, but yesterday's game put him over 4 APG, something I don't think he has ever done in a season. He has to accept that his PPG will go down a bit if the entire team is playing well.

He also has to understand that his unselfishness will set a standard for the rest of his teammates to follow.

his main issue is that when he is off, he feels that he needs to (volume) shoot his way back.

Turrible mindset!

gunsnewing wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Splat wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:It's a good thing we locked him up for 5yrs at

ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FOUR MILLIONS DOLLARS

EIGHTY THOUSAND DOLLARS PER QUARTER

$75,609 per quarter

$6,300 per minute

$105 per second

on or off the court

This is how professional athletes are paid. The NBA salaries will likely only increase in the new CBA. Additionally, the Players Association told the fools "taking less" in tax free states to stop. If you are not happy with how the players are paid, it is probably best to find a new hobby because the price tags are gonna go up.

No matter what the cap is there will always be overpaid Gilbert Arenas, Rasheed Lewis and Melo types

Agreed. 100%! That said, I realize people on here hate Melo and that is fine but lumping him in with the guys you mention is complete nonsense. Other teams offered the max for him. Looking at other contracts signed last year in FA or extensions, he got market value. It is what it is. The Knicks real problem is they are capped out bc of other ridiculous contracts they handed out/took on (Amare, Bargs, etc). If they spent the money appropriately rounding out the roster they wouldn't have this problem.

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

Splat wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:It's a good thing we locked him up for 5yrs at

ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FOUR MILLIONS DOLLARS

EIGHTY THOUSAND DOLLARS PER QUARTER

$75,609 per quarter

$6,300 per minute

$105 per second

on or off the court

This is how professional athletes are paid. The NBA salaries will likely only increase in the new CBA. Additionally, the Players Association told the fools "taking less" in tax free states to stop. If you are not happy with how the players are paid, it is probably best to find a new hobby because the price tags are gonna go up.

Yeah, heard it all before about NBA price tags, but Melo isn't worth what he is paid relative to other talents. Sure, some donkey hits the jackpot every year when a GM foolishly pays up, but we're talking about Max for a one-dimensional player. So, those numbers are a fine reminder of what you're getting for your money. All the same, if you don't like those numbers, its just facts, not fiction, so it goes both ways amigo.

So if Monroe or Gasol are pursued

To save us from Melo

Breakdown how much they should be paid

Quarter-Minute-Second

$5,000 per quarter

+

unlimited massages from MSG's new Hot Asian Chick Medical Unit

=

Happy Ending

fishmike wrote:he had a horrible shooting night. 8 assits and 6 boards. It happens. Also there is not one single consistent scoring threat on the team next to Melo after.... yup thats right... Amare.

So again, when there is a second player (god forbid a third) who actually puts pressure on the opposing defense what you see is what you get. Too bad we waisted our one of out of every four good shooting nights from Timmy. Oh well

I think we have a solid roster, it's not the most talented, but it's definitely a playoff roster. The problem we have is not knowing what is our best starting 5, or which starting 5 works best, and who provides the best energy, scoring, and defense of the bench.

It's easy for fish to play 11 to 14 guys because after Melo and Amare, you have about the same level of talent. There either really good at 1 thing, and borderline avg with every other aspect of the game. I just don't think you can play more than 9 to 10 guys a night, and i don't think it's a good idea to play a player 22 minute one night, DNP the next night, 11 minutes the next night, and so forth.

You start giving players token minutes (Wear and Early), that to me is a chemistry killer

were they good shots he missed or awful redundant Iso's?

C'mon haters, break it down.

Did he have a bad nite shooting because he is not in rhytem in his game BECAUSE HE HAS BOUGHT INTO THE SYSTEM?

You wants wins or you want a new cuture???? They both don't come at the same time. We have a better record than Cleveland.
Miami has a better record then Cleveland.

I think the idea is you stick with the plan.

If after 5 games your ready to give it up, then some fans don't really get it.

Nalod wrote:Melo had 7 assists agains the Wiz, 8 last nite.

were they good shots he missed or awful redundant Iso's?

C'mon haters, break it down.

Did he have a bad nite shooting because he is not in rhytem in his game BECAUSE HE HAS BOUGHT INTO THE SYSTEM?

You wants wins or you want a new cuture???? They both don't come at the same time. We have a better record than Cleveland.
Miami has a better record then Cleveland.

I think the idea is you stick with the plan.

If after 5 games your ready to give it up, then some fans don't really get it.

He missed many open / easy shots. Good shots.

The issue was ... once he was officially "off", he started forcing awful shots in an attempt to (volume) shoot his way back. In the process he missed numerous passing opportunities which is a team deflater.

This is a horrible habit that has to go.

Also, when the knicks were making a run, he took an awful shot (1 on 3), missed and then instead of coming back on defense, he was arguing with the ref. Luckily his man missed a gimme.

We need to see new 124 million dollar Melo that is more mentally tough.

Btw, I am an agnostic.

We are not getting Jordan, Kobe or Shaq
My guess is the Triangle will be abandoned
Melo goes back to winning scoring titles

gunsnewing wrote:So what happens next? Phil abandons the triangle once he realizes we don't have the cap space and flexibility to get the right players for the triangle?

We are not getting Jordan, Kobe or Shaq
My guess is the Triangle will be abandoned
Melo goes back to winning scoring titles

We do have cap space starting next year. Phil seemed pretty clear this was a process. He will stay the course. The triangle and really any offense for that matter will require us to get some guards that can hit outside shots and maybe penetrate the defense. The Knicks over the last 2 years have had some really terrible backcourt production and you simply can't win in this league with that.

"There's a lot of bad habits, a lot of bad habits been built up the past couple years," James said to the media moments after the exchange.

thats bron talking amount kyrie to 25 shots and had zero assist

Uptown wrote:Yeah, and maybe Cleve should bench LeBron too 'cause he's clearly messing up their offense too....

Now you sound ridiculous for comparing LeBron with Melo.

gunsnewing wrote:I'm just wondering when and how we will get championship caliber talent

Really good question. Nobody really knows. Right now the roster construction is terrible. Solution would probably be to add one max guy (Gasol/Rondo) then get some people who can defend/reb/shoot to fill out the roster. Not the most exciting thing in the world, but should lead to a more reliable and competitive team. I continue to hope that Phil can pull a Lakers style scam to add a big piece or some pieces.

Which players would be considered savvy enough to learn and implement? My guess that list includes:

Shump (may be one of the biggest beneficiaries and shows a desire to play correctly)

Wear (limited observation shows a highly position aware sense and passing)

Cole (active thinker even if below average in response time, knows position and can pass)

Sam (seems to have a subtle enough grasp of the passing game)

Jose (would assume he is)

Pablo (though I'm less confident in him this season)

Acy (seems fairly adept already at knowing where to be on the floor)

Guys who seem either lost much of the time or not very consistent:

Melo (Mindset varies too much to be sure he'll buy in. Regresses most games still.)

Amare (unteachable)

JR (talent there, can pass quite well when focused, but he's JR)

THJ (may be a slow study. question is will he eventually catch on, is he a serious student?)

Larkin (not terribly convinced he knows what he's doing even if I appreciate some things he has done)

and guys who may function in the Triangle concept due to a particular skill:

Jason Smith (money mid-range shot. Seems eager to be active, though not clear if he fully understands what is happening sometimes)

Unknowns:

Early

Bargnani (on paper should be useful, but its Bargs, so nobody is holding their breath)

In sum, the highest talent level players on the Knicks are also mostly our dumbest players. Ideally, you want your stars to be the ones with the intellects to lead and get everyone to accept their roles, but that is not this team.

It goes back to my basic two variables:

(1) Fish (can he get the collective to work in unison and essentially produce a team effort that causes Melo and JR to buy in?)

(2) Melo (will he buy in? If not, the Triangle experiment will fail and any shot at team consistency will be lost for this year and maybe for all of Melo's tenure as a Knick)

Winning anything or qualifying for the playoffs is not the issue this year. It is the culture, because at the heart of the team Melo must embrace and embody the culture

because

as much as half this team may be gone next year and if you want to instill anything with continuity, you better get your long-term players to buy in this season.

Low IQ top talent + upcoming high roster turnover = a serious challenge for Fish to install a system that sticks and carries over into the next season.

This is where Westchester may be very critical for this experiment.

jrodmc wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Uptown wrote:Yeah, and maybe Cleve should bench LeBron too 'cause he's clearly messing up their offense too....

Now you sound ridiculous for comparing LeBron with Melo.

Yeah, maybe as ridiculous as the thought that the Cavs should bench Lebron, right?

What would be great to see is Melo being vocal about playing the game correctly as Lebron finds it necessary to do now. The difference is Lebron is a far more cerebral player and it is not just his rings that carry weight, but his understanding of the game.

Comparing them is basically unfair to Lebron, because Lebron will try to work out the kinks and get everyone playing up to their ability. You don't bench a leader. If Melo was one, I'd say it was a silly idea too.

But if he is not cooperative after Jose has been given some burn, then you can surely say he might need to sit during stretches when the team is playing well and maybe winning without him. That's not an oh my god sacriligeous thing to say.

It's up to Melo to show his team ethic. It's up to Fish to judge that. Whether he would use his authority if Melo is being stubborn and uncooperative remains to be seen.

I remember that MJ would let the others score in the first quarter and then turn it on in the 2nd quarter and 2nd half. I think Melo understands the offense and how it will help him but he has that notion that he cannot shake, that he is the man and must score and sometimes he just holds the ball for that reason.

If he could continue to set up Shump, JaSmith, Stat and others in the first part of the game so as to get them in the flow and confident. Then he can assert his game, within the framework of the offense, later in the 1st half and 2nd half. This would be good for the team and keep him fresher too. This is where he needs to grow.

Shump seems to have figured out the offense and is starting to become the player we hope he could be 2 years ago. Woodson messed up the guy for sure!

Larkin, ACY and JaSmith have all been good too. Stat is looking fine as well. The problem is that the team is starting reserves and thus the bench is getting killed and they are falling into a deep hole. That will change with Calderon and Bargnani coming back...i Hope.

We have waited 13 years for a good team, lets be more patient than 5 games of this era!

PJax knows what wins and he trying to build it. Fisher is really good from what I can see so far. Let them build it some more. This team is no where near what it needs to be. just imagine Gasol over Dalembert now and they would be 4-1. They need a two way C, a defensive PF and the SG situation of Shump and THJr must turn out well. Once that occurs, they will be in the mix for better things.

Vmart wrote:

Uptown wrote:Yeah, and maybe Cleve should bench LeBron too 'cause he's clearly messing up their offense too....

Now you sound ridiculous for comparing LeBron with Melo.

About as ridiculous as this typical knee-jerk thread, right?